Trailer sailing and maximum towing weight
David Pocock
I want to buy a trailer sailer around 20/21 foot to be pulled by a
Subaru Legacy 2.0 estate with 113 BHP. It is a 4WD car which can be
shifted into a low ratio of gears for towing.
I have - from different places - three potential maximum figures for
safe towing:
1. 85 percent of the kerb weight .... 1182 kg
2. 100 percent of the kerb weight ... 1390 kg
3 Braked towing weight ............. 1600 kg
Why the large discrepancy (is it just to take into account steep
slipways)? Is the first figure unduly cautious? I would like to go with
the second figure but what are the potential problems, if any?
The real difficulty is that the 100 percent figure would allow me to
include the Jaguar 21 and Jaguar/Catalina 22 on my short-list of boats
whereas the 85 percent figure would not.
David
Guy Fawkes
<po...@poey.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Here's the problem.
>
>I want to buy a trailer sailer around 20/21 foot to be pulled by a
>Subaru Legacy 2.0 estate with 113 BHP. It is a 4WD car which can be
>shifted into a low ratio of gears for towing.
torque, overall gearbox ratios are what matter, bhp is irrelevant.
>
>I have - from different places - three potential maximum figures for
>safe towing:
>
>1. 85 percent of the kerb weight .... 1182 kg
>2. 100 percent of the kerb weight ... 1390 kg
>3 Braked towing weight ............. 1600 kg
you can prolly tow all 3 weights legally, but the difference between
100 and 1600 kilos will thrash yer motor, the real test is going to be
on a slip/
>
>Why the large discrepancy (is it just to take into account steep
>slipways)? Is the first figure unduly cautious? I would like to go with
>the second figure but what are the potential problems, if any?
>
>The real difficulty is that the 100 percent figure would allow me to
>include the Jaguar 21 and Jaguar/Catalina 22 on my short-list of boats
>whereas the 85 percent figure would not.
go for the biggest / heaviest boat, subtract £1000 from your budget
and use the money to buy a tatty diesel landrover just for towing.
drew.hudson
news:qrQEQGAh...@poey.demon.co.uk...
because that's the manufactures designed max as per owners manual. When I
have been stopped for a check with a boat in tow they have never checked the
weight but are very keen on brakes, lights and check chain
--
regards
Drew & Pauline - M.Y. Silverwitch
Ian Johnston
wrote:
: As far as the blue meanies are concerned 1600 kg for a braked trailer
: because that's the manufactures designed max as per owners manual. When I
: have been stopped for a check with a boat in tow they have never checked the
: weight but are very keen on brakes, lights and check chain
You should probably also consider driving licence limitations on
towing. The rules changed a few years back and are now horrendously
complicated - the DVLA sent a "simple guide to the new rules" to my
gliding club which *nobody* there could understand.
Ian
Geoff campbell
My one piece of advice is to drive slow and leave plenty of distance to
stop. Even with a braked trailer your stopping distance greatly increases
with the sorts of loads you are looking at.
Geoff Campbell
www.boatlaunch.co.uk
"David Pocock" <po...@poey.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:qrQEQGAh...@poey.demon.co.uk...
Austin Shackles
<po...@poey.demon.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:
>Here's the problem.
>
>I want to buy a trailer sailer around 20/21 foot to be pulled by a
>Subaru Legacy 2.0 estate with 113 BHP. It is a 4WD car which can be
>shifted into a low ratio of gears for towing.
>
>I have - from different places - three potential maximum figures for
>safe towing:
>
>1. 85 percent of the kerb weight .... 1182 kg
>2. 100 percent of the kerb weight ... 1390 kg
>3 Braked towing weight ............. 1600 kg
the law regarding weights says you can tow up to half the kerb weight of the
car or up to 750Kg (whichever is less) unbraked, and up to 3.5T braked using
over-run braking.
There are speed restrictions when towing heavy trailers, most notably those
heavier than the towing vehicle IIRC, though I can't find the relevant rules
right now.
just found this:
http://www.roads.dtlr.gov.uk/vehicle/standards/trailers/
which is handy.
there's no law preventing you form towing more than the manufacturer's
weight, though as it says, courts/insurance might think it dangerous, and
the latter will certainly try to use this as a means of getting out of
paying in the event of a claim.
note the dimensions, too, but there's nothing to stop you towing up to the
maunfacturer's recommended weight. Just make sure that the brakes on the
trailer work...
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"You praise the firm restraint with which they write -_
I'm with you there, of course: They use the snaffle and the bit
alright, but where's the bloody horse? - Roy Campbell (1902-1957)
Stefan Lloyd
1100kg with a engine similar sized to yours, I really think your car will
struggle with 1600kg.
I'd also comment - be very careful going downhill - my trailer is stable on
the flat but
snakes interestingly going down even quite gentle hills.
Austin Shackles
<stefan...@uk.ibm.com> enlightened us thusly:
>My understanding is that all 3 are legal, but having towed a boat of around
>1100kg with a engine similar sized to yours, I really think your car will
>struggle with 1600kg.
>
>I'd also comment - be very careful going downhill - my trailer is stable on
>the flat but
>snakes interestingly going down even quite gentle hills.
I trust your tyre pressures are all correct?
I once towed a disabled Citroen BX on a trailer behind my Citroen BX, which
coped very well, though of course, you have to keep the speed down.
I can't find the relevant rule now, but I recall that there is or used to be
a lower speed limit if your trailer was heavier than the towing weight of
the vehicle.
The original questioner was saying that the "100% of kerb weight" figure was
what concerned him, and that shouldn't present a problem, neither in fact
should the 1600Kg which I assume is the manufacturer's recommended maximum,
though trailer brakes are important at that sort of weight, make sure they
work, and that the coupling is the right weight for the trailer - the
new-type couplings (required on any trailer built after 1987 IIRC) are rated
for trailer weight and have different spring rates in the coupling - if you
have one rated for a heavy trailer fitted to a lighter trailer, the brakes
won't come on as often or as hard as they should, which you probably won't
notice until it won't stop in an emergency.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Brevis esse laboro, Obscurus fio" (it is when I struggle to be
brief that I become obscure) Horace (65 - 8 BC) Ars Poetica, 25
Simon Brooke
> David Pocock wrote:
>
> > Here's the problem.
> >
> > I want to buy a trailer sailer around 20/21 foot to be pulled by a
> > Subaru Legacy 2.0 estate with 113 BHP. It is a 4WD car which can be
> > shifted into a low ratio of gears for towing.
*Can* it? Check your owner's manual to make sure. On my Frontera,
shifting into low range locks the central diff, so can't really be
used on the road except in very slippy conditions.
> > I have - from different places - three potential maximum figures for
> > safe towing:
> >
> > 1. 85 percent of the kerb weight .... 1182 kg
> > 2. 100 percent of the kerb weight ... 1390 kg
> > 3 Braked towing weight ............. 1600 kg
H'mmm, I'm facing the same problem. Mine's two litre too, and the boat
I've just acquired (see flamewars passim) probably weighs between 1500
and 2000 kg on its trailer - I *hope* nearer the 1500 kg mark but I
won't really know unless I put it on a weighbridge. I'm going to have
to bring it home about a hundred miles sometime in the next fortnight.
> > Why the large discrepancy (is it just to take into account steep
> > slipways)? Is the first figure unduly cautious? I would like to go with
> > the second figure but what are the potential problems, if any?
The Frontera is able to launch and recover our present boat, a
drascombe lugger - probably 750 kg all up on trailer - from very steep
slipways and very rough shingle beaches without difficulty. I'm not
sure I'd want to try it with 1390 kg though. Again, your owners manual
will have a recommended max towing weight, but this is probably what
it's safe to tow on reasonable quality made roads, not undermaintained
seaweed strewn slipways.
> My understanding is that all 3 are legal, but having towed a boat of around
> 1100kg with a engine similar sized to yours, I really think your car will
> struggle with 1600kg.
... that's what worries me ...
> I'd also comment - be very careful going downhill - my trailer is stable on
> the flat but
> snakes interestingly going down even quite gentle hills.
... and that worries me too ...
Still, it's only a hundred miles, and I'll only do it once. And if I
really chicken out I can borrow a much more powerful truck from a
friend.
--
si...@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
The Conservative Party now has the support of a smaller proportion of
the electorate in Scotland than Sinn Fein have in Northern Ireland.
Austin Shackles
<si...@jasmine.org.uk> enlightened us thusly:
>Stefan Lloyd <stefan...@uk.ibm.com> writes:
>
>> David Pocock wrote:
>>
>> > Here's the problem.
>> >
>> > I want to buy a trailer sailer around 20/21 foot to be pulled by a
>> > Subaru Legacy 2.0 estate with 113 BHP. It is a 4WD car which can be
>> > shifted into a low ratio of gears for towing.
>
>*Can* it? Check your owner's manual to make sure. On my Frontera,
>shifting into low range locks the central diff, so can't really be
>used on the road except in very slippy conditions.
cheapskates, vauxhall/isuzu. it ought to have a separate control. My LR 110
does :-)
seriously, on the road you're not likely to need the low box, unless you end
up on an unexpectedly steep hill - I recently had a trailer plus 70 bales of
hay (a bit over 2 tons gross) behind the landrover, and needed low box only
for a 1:6 hill which you can't get a run at.
in terms of the crappy slipways etc, locking the centre diff would be an
advantage. Locked diff is only a real problem if you try to turn tight at
the same time on a hard surface, though of course you want to release it
ASAP. I rather suspect the Subaru might have a viscous centre diff anyway.
my 4x4 sierra does, and the same in the back axle, if it only had ground
clearance it'd be unstoppable...
I don't think you have a potential problem up to the 1300Kg area especially
if the manufacturer says you can tow 1600 Kg. Make sure that the tow bar is
in good condition though, if it's a standard fitment, and if fitting an
aftermarket one, make sure it a reputable make and strong enough - you'll
put a fair bit of load on it launching/recovering.
>H'mmm, I'm facing the same problem. Mine's two litre too, and the boat
>I've just acquired (see flamewars passim) probably weighs between 1500
>and 2000 kg on its trailer - I *hope* nearer the 1500 kg mark but I
>won't really know unless I put it on a weighbridge. I'm going to have
>to bring it home about a hundred miles sometime in the next fortnight.
what's the recommended maximum tow weight for the frontera?
>The Frontera is able to launch and recover our present boat, a
>drascombe lugger - probably 750 kg all up on trailer - from very steep
>slipways and very rough shingle beaches without difficulty. I'm not
>sure I'd want to try it with 1390 kg though. Again, your owners manual
>will have a recommended max towing weight, but this is probably what
>it's safe to tow on reasonable quality made roads, not undermaintained
>seaweed strewn slipways.
>
>> My understanding is that all 3 are legal, but having towed a boat of around
>> 1100kg with a engine similar sized to yours, I really think your car will
>> struggle with 1600kg.
>
>... that's what worries me ...
just take things easy, and don't try for any records. about the only things
that might give you trouble are overheating the engine or overheating the
brakes. For the former, if you have an electric fan make sure it works; for
the latter, make sure the trailer brakes work. If the trailer has a manual
brake over-ride for reversing, leave it off and attempt to reverse (gently),
you shouldn't be able to. if the trailer reverses easily, the brakes need
adjusting/repair.
if it's got auto-reverse brakes, it'll have a springy handbrake with no
ratchet effect - these handbrakes are simply pulled over-centre and then
spring up - the spring is there to defeat the auto-reverse mechanism in the
wheel hubs so that it can't roll away backwards on a slope. test the brakes
by putting the handbrake on, then try to drive forwards gently, again, you
shouldn't be able to. now try reversing, the handbrake should go up more as
you start to move backwards.
>> I'd also comment - be very careful going downhill - my trailer is stable on
>> the flat but
>> snakes interestingly going down even quite gentle hills.
>
>... and that worries me too ...
check all the tyre pressures, especially rear ones on the towing vehicle,
and inflate the rear tyres to "fully loaded" pressure. The trailer should
transfer between 25 and 100 Kg to the car, no more. (this depends on the
car) but around 50Kg is a good ballpark figure. If you can't lift the
trailer off the ball hitch by hand then it's probably nose heavy. A 4-wheel
trailer should sit level on it's wheels, and still have a nose weight of
25-50Kg. If you're keen, you can check this with a suitable scale. If the
trailer doesn't line up with your tow ball (should do on ordinary cars) then
use a drop plate to make it line up.
If it still snakes, you can try fitting a damper.
If you get it snaking, first rule is don't panic. Especially, don't either
a) try to compensate with the steering, this is very difficult to do and
you're much more likely to make it worse; and b) don't stand on the brakes.
Best solution is to lift off (on the flat) and decelerate slowly till the
snaking dies down. If going downhill, still decelerate slowly. Going down
a steep hill, slow down at the top, get into a low gear and go down slowly -
don't take any notice of other impatient types, it's your life, not theirs.
once you get rid of the snaking, go more slowly.
Simon Brooke
> On or around Wed, 26 Sep 2001 09:07:11 GMT, Simon Brooke
> <si...@jasmine.org.uk> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >H'mmm, I'm facing the same problem. Mine's two litre too, and the boat
> >I've just acquired (see flamewars passim) probably weighs between 1500
> >and 2000 kg on its trailer - I *hope* nearer the 1500 kg mark but I
> >won't really know unless I put it on a weighbridge. I'm going to have
> >to bring it home about a hundred miles sometime in the next fortnight.
>
> what's the recommended maximum tow weight for the frontera?
2,000 Kg. The boat herself should have a dry weight just under 1,000
Kg. Don't know about the trailer she's on - it's a converted
break-back car trailer, and my guess it it's not much shy of 500
Kg. So the 1,500 Kg estimate shouldn't be too far off... I hope...
> >> My understanding is that all 3 are legal, but having towed a boat of around
> >> 1100kg with a engine similar sized to yours, I really think your car will
> >> struggle with 1600kg.
> >
> >... that's what worries me ...
>
> just take things easy, and don't try for any records. about the only things
> that might give you trouble are overheating the engine or overheating the
> brakes. For the former, if you have an electric fan make sure it works; for
> the latter, make sure the trailer brakes work. If the trailer has a manual
> brake over-ride for reversing, leave it off and attempt to reverse (gently),
> you shouldn't be able to. if the trailer reverses easily, the brakes need
> adjusting/repair.
Thanks for all the advice!