Instrumentation ideas & priorities
Alan Frame
bridgedeck.
Do I:
(a) replace them with a pair of NASA Clipper units?
(b) replace them with a dual speed/depth and add a GPS repeater[0]?
(c) replace them with a dual speed/depth and add wind
speed/direction[1]?
Both (b) & (c) are possibly overkill, but if I go for (a), then I can't
change my mind later...
Thoughts?
Ta, Alan
[0] 'course, at the moment I don't have a fixed GPS.
[1] And that'll require a trip up the mast and running a new cable.
--
99 Ducati 748BP, 95 Ducati 600SS, 81 Guzzi Monza, 74 MV Agusta 350
"Ride to Work, Work to Ride" SI# 7.067 DoD#1930 PGP Key 0xBDED56C5
Peter Köhlmann
> My current log & sounder are fubar - the two displays are mounted on the
> bridgedeck.
>
> Do I:
> (a) replace them with a pair of NASA Clipper units?
If you want NASA, they also make a dual speed/log unit
As well as a GPS repeater
--
Warning: 10 days have passed since your last Windows reinstall.
Alan Frame
> Alan Frame wrote:
>
> > My current log & sounder are fubar - the two displays are mounted on the
> > bridgedeck.
> >
> > Do I:
> > (a) replace them with a pair of NASA Clipper units?
>
> If you want NASA, they also make a dual speed/log unit
> As well as a GPS repeater
That's what I'm considering - however, to avoid the faff of fitting more
stuff & cutting more holes in addition to the two that are there
already, I think I'll just go for the basic separate log & depth - wind
Would Be Nice, but isn't essential, and as my main GPS is a Garmin
handheld with Bluechart, the GPS repeater doesn't add that much.
My SO did point out that the masthead windex is adaquate[0] and "we
won't get the money back when we sell up to buy a bigger boat"... ;-)
rgds, Alan
[0] cue Dan/A Traditional Yachtsman saying "If you need a windspeed
indicator to tell you when to reef, then you shouldn't be sailing" -
True, but it's handy for the skipper to say "wake me if /that/ goes
above 25 knots - I'm going to bed"
SKMonel
wrote:
>My current log & sounder are fubar - the two displays are mounted on the
>bridgedeck.
>
>Do I:
>(a) replace them with a pair of NASA Clipper units?
>(b) replace them with a dual speed/depth and add a GPS repeater[0]?
>(c) replace them with a dual speed/depth and add wind
>speed/direction[1]?
>
>Both (b) & (c) are possibly overkill, but if I go for (a), then I can't
>change my mind later...
>
>Thoughts?
On my previous boat I had a dual Autohelm log/depth, which was
brilliant as I could look at it and knew immediately which was knots
and which was depth. My current boat I have a Raymarine log and Nasa
depth, mounted on either side of the cockpit. Sometimes I can, when
depth is tight, confuse the readings in my mind, which can be a
problem - I try never to exceed my depth in metres by my speed in
knots, sometimes when one reads 1.5 and the other 1.7, with a 1.5
metre draft, there can be some panic. However separate instruments
allow for much larger numbers, which as the nearsight deteriorates is
a great advantage.
My new log is a Raymarine ST40, replaced old Navico unit. I am so
impressed with it, that in future I would always pay the extra for
Raymarine instruments. It's the little things like the flaps that
almost close off the water when you replace the paddle wheel with the
blank. The water temperature reading, trip and total distances and the
ability of the instruments to talk to other navigation bits [which I
haven't used, but may at some time in the future].
I'd like to mount my instruments on a binacle over the companionway,
but having sailed on boats with this arrangement, it can also be
confusing which instrument is reading what unless you think about it.
I would love to have a wind instrument at the top of the mast, but
have seen them in the worst of conditions fail. I've had my wind
direction indicator as well as anchor light carried away in high
winds. I've sailed on boats with anenometer at the top of the mast,
which seldom seem to work, or only the direction or speed work never
both. One day I will probably buy one to stop getting a crick in my
kneck form constantly looking at my wind indicator. However I know I
still would have to keep looking at the top of my mast as I would
never trust the electronic one.
SK~
Stefan
Dontb...@nowhere.com says...
> The water temperature reading
Very useful I'm sure off the E coast in the USA if you are trying to
find the Gulf Stream currents. About as useful as chocolate teapot in
the UK as far as I can tell. Or have you found a use for it?
James
"Alan Frame" <alan....@acm.org> wrote in message
news:1h36xfv.154vyet61m69sN%alan....@acm.org...
With GPS now giving Speed over the ground..... I would not dream of having a
hole in the hull for a log.
Granted the tide has an effect so hull speed will be different. But its not
vital data.
My instrument needs are (in order of priority)
Depth
GPS (for Waypoint, VMG and CMG)
Time
Wind Speed/Direction
plus maybe battery condition and fridge (beer) temp
Ian Johnston
wrote:
: (c) replace them with a dual speed/depth and add wind
: speed/direction[1]?
I've never understood the point of wind instruments. Surely sail
choice and trim is determined by how the boat responds, not just some
numbers?
Ian
--
Duncan McC
jamese...@hotmailnospam.com says...
But surely - for SAILING - your speed on the *water* is important?
--
Duncan
ChrisR
"Duncan McC (NZ)" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d9cbbba6...@news.paradise.net.nz...
Distance and therefore speed are essential pieces of navigational
information especially in the event of gps failure
ChrisR
James
"ChrisR" <Ch...@removeyachtsmen.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4331...@nntp.onyx.net...
>
>>
>> --
>> Duncan
>
> Distance and therefore speed are essential pieces of navigational
> information especially in the event of gps failure
> ChrisR
>
Granted a log is unfull... but far from essential
40 years ago, i used to sail with my parents.
like most people then, we had only compass chart and tidal atlas for the
area
Speed through the water was judged by feel and watching the water go past
the boat.
We navigated by dead reckonong and always got to our intended destination.
In the event of GPS failing... i can nav by dead reckoning ....Starting from
the last GPS plot which is written down every hour or two (depending on the
passage, weather etc of the day)
It is easy for me cos i did it week in week out for years. It is ingrained
in my brain through practice... I wont forget it.
It does worry me, That people new to sailing go on some training and prob
get taught basic dead reckoning.... .
Then with day skipper ticket they go to the boat show and buy a boat....
with GPS.
they sail for maybe years... using the GPS....so far so good
When GPS fails, the classroom dead reckoning is long forgotten and was
never practiced in reality..... Oh dear
Jon Kåre Hellan
> Distance and therefore speed are essential pieces of navigational
> information especially in the event of gps failure
> ChrisR
Possible causes of GPS failure:
- satellites jammed or turned off
- power is unavailable
- unit malfunctions or is lost overboard
I suspect loss of power is the most likely of these, and it's going to
take out your log as well. Unless you've got one which doesn't need
electricity.
Jon
James
"Jon Kåre Hellan" <d...@null.com> wrote in message
news:teaci5h...@persaunet.uninett.no...
I guess a walker trailing log would do the job if need be... and still no
holes in the hull
ChrisR
"James" <jamese...@hotmailnospam.com> wrote in message
news:dgtvmc$g7f$1...@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
For years I had a mechanical VDO Log which was worked quite well. It didn't
required electrical power which suited me as I had no engine driven battery
charger. Now I still have my walker as a back up.
Chris R
ChrisR
dinghy the way she planed (or not) was a reliable speed indicator or we
would time something floating for the hull length. However, as someone of
your vast experience obviously knows when your boat speed is much less than
a cross current and especially if there is poor visibility and/or with bad
sea conditions, estimated positions with no recent fixes are notoriously
inaccurate even for a good experienced navigator particularly in unfamiliar
water. IMO tide charts tables and diamonds 0are not detailed enough to get
acurate estimated positions when boat speed is less influence than a cross
tide. Perhaps others will say they can produce accurate ep's in these
circumstances. Before decca / GPS I would aim to be definitely the safe
side of a landfall destination so I knew which way to turn on arrival!
ChrisR
SKMonel
I find it very interesting to look at the water temeperature in the
Thames Estuary with the rise and fall of the tide and the time of day.
In the Crouch Estuary we have a particular problem with fouling and it
is interesting to see water temeperatures in excess of 22 degrees
centigrade.
When starting my engine in the middle of winter it can be a problem
with no preheaters [Yanmar YSM], when it is -4 degrees in the cockpit
and 8 degrees in the cabin it is comforting to see the water
temperature is also around 8 degrees.
I agree it has no effect on my sailing performance.
I recently sailed up the Gulf Stream initially from Havana to Bimini
and then Bimini to the top of the Bahamas before turning right to
Bermuda. I tell you what that 3 knots of current is a real boom,
particulalry as we had F6 NE to tack into for most of the way. We
didn't use our water temperature to work out what it was we only had
to look at our SOG.
SK~
SKMonel
My previous boat had only one through the hull fitting and that was a
log. I will do without a sea toilet, sink and lots of other things,
but I will not do without something that measures my water speed. I do
a little bit of racing and it's only water speed that tells you if you
have the boat sailing at its optimum, although other competitors give
you some indication.
My boat before that had one of those logs that were spung wire driven
to an analogue readout [This is going back to the late 80's, early
90's]. The spring was always breaking [I could get the boat to plane
under spinnaker something over 10 knots which was the limitation of
the readout] and it was always the first thing I replaced before the
next race.
SK~
ChrisR
"SKMonel" <Dontb...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:u4d7j1pmp28j3ikv2...@4ax.com...
on a mechanical log with automotive speedo cables made of steel that rusted
and failed after a short while.
ChrisR
John Cairns
> [0] 'course, at the moment I don't have a fixed GPS.
> [1] And that'll require a trip up the mast and running a new cable.
> --
> 99 Ducati 748BP, 95 Ducati 600SS, 81 Guzzi Monza, 74 MV Agusta 350
> "Ride to Work, Work to Ride" SI# 7.067 DoD#1930 PGP Key 0xBDED56C5
GPS antenna does NOT need to go to the top of the mast, You can mount it on
your stern rail if you have one.
John Cairns
Nick
top of the mast as the boat pitches and rolls will give some very odd
velocity and COG readings.
Nick
Alan Frame
> "Alan Frame" <alan....@acm.org> wrote:
> > Ta, Alan
> > [0] 'course, at the moment I don't have a fixed GPS.
> > [1] And that'll require a trip up the mast and running a new cable.
> GPS antenna does NOT need to go to the top of the mast, You can mount it on
> your stern rail if you have one.
Footnote error - [1] was talking about wind instruments.
Anyway, I picked up separate log & sounder at SIBS yesterday - just the
NASA Clipper ones. I'll have a go at fitting them next weekend.
I /was/ tempted by the Garmin 276 that Marine Superstore were selling
for GPB 399, but will put that dosh towards replacing the corroded
exhaust elbow on my 1GM10...
Ta for the replies, Alan
Alan Frame
> On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 13:11:32 UTC, alan....@acm.org (Alan Frame)
> wrote:
>
> : (c) replace them with a dual speed/depth and add wind
> : speed/direction[1]?
>
> I've never understood the point of wind instruments.
(1) Boasting in the bar afterwards: "Ahh, we had 65 knots..."
(2) Instructing novice crew to wake the skipper & reef or change sails
if /that/ number goes above 20.
'course the funky Tacktick wireless stuff allows windspeed/direction to
be checked from down below, or even whilst doing cocktails on the next
boat ;-)
> Surely sail choice and trim is determined by how the boat responds, not
> just some numbers?
True, that's why wind instruments are just a Nice To Have.
rgds, Alan
NotMyRealName
<jgcairns@-removethis-sbcglobal.net> writes
stable reading
Spike
Stefan
> > On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 13:11:32 UTC, alan....@acm.org (Alan Frame)
> > I've never understood the point of wind instruments.
Some people are very comforted by the sight of a digital read-out.
Strange but true.
However:
1. Hi-tech sails often come with something like "Max 20 knots" stamped
on the clew. Owners may like to follow these instructions. There again,
having alternated between large boats with instruments and small boats
without, I reckon I can tell the windspeed +/- 10% from the appearance
of the sea.
2. Some race boats have a Velocity Prediction Program (VPP) linked to
the wind instruments which tell the helm and trimmers how well they are
doing (% actual versus predicted). This is supposedly very motivational,
especially offshore when there are no other boats in sight.
ChrisR
"Stefan" <do...@spam.me> wrote in message
news:dh5hek$ies$1$8302...@news.demon.co.uk...
You are certainly right about that one. I am not sure it is so much
motivational but certainly an informative indication tool. The crew would
certainly investigate to see what is wrong if the performance meter falls
away from100%. As you said although one can judge when a boat is "in the
groove" a performance meter is a useful reference standard especially when
there are no other boats in sight. Results are so often only seconds apart
even after many hours or more of racing.
Pete Verdon
> I'd like to mount my instruments on a binacle over the companionway,
> but having sailed on boats with this arrangement, it can also be
> confusing which instrument is reading what unless you think about it.
Also means that anyone standing in the hatch is in the way of the
instruments.
Pete
Pete Verdon
> With GPS now giving Speed over the ground..... I would not dream of having a
> hole in the hull for a log.
> Granted the tide has an effect so hull speed will be different. But its not
> vital data.
You what?
Pete
Pete Verdon
> I guess a walker trailing log would do the job if need be... and still no
> holes in the hull
But you've got a hole in the hull already for your depth transducer.
There are plenty of combined units about, so you don't need any more holes.
Pete
Graham Frankland
news:cCUlhtvFIYkV-pn2-4KFwkY0Kwh4E@localhost...
wind angle, rather than compass course. Hell of a lot cheaper than a wind
vane and saves having to re-trim every time the wind shifts around by a few
degrees.
Graham.
Chris Lowe
As opposed to having the people sitting in the cockpit blocking the
instruments.
Keith
<ch...@nospamart-render.com> writes
I never realised just how awkward a problem this could cause before I
crewed Burnham Regatta Week this year on a modern lump of glassfibre.
(My experience is in a proper boat.)
When you hit the 'pudding' because the skipper was unsighted from the
depth gauge for a critical 10 seconds you realise just how stupid it is
to site the instruments on the cockpit facings.
I like mast mounted repeaters. An extra 500 sovs?... so what.
--
Keith replace nospam with ilf0rd