Buying lenses in the U.S.
Steve Morgan
dollar is going to make it rather difficult to keep my credit cards in my
pocket.
I'm after a couple of lenses; the Canon 17-40mm F4L and either the 70-200
F4L or perhaps the Sigma 70-200 F2.8 EX. Browsing around today gave the
impression that I can expect to get them for around half the price of buying
them here.
So, anyone got any experiences to share? I read today that buying a proper
US import gets you a worldwide warranty with the Canons, so that shouldn't
be a problem. HM C&E may want some funds off me to bring them back, though.
Any recommended retailers? Any to avoid?
Cheers,
--
Smorgo (Steve Morgan)
E-Mail address is spam-trapped. Use my first name at wormpurple dot com
Sorby
news:10773998...@iris.uk.clara.net...
> I'm off on my hols to Florida in a few months and the state of the U.S.
> dollar is going to make it rather difficult to keep my credit cards in my
> pocket.
>
> I'm after a couple of lenses; the Canon 17-40mm F4L and either the 70-200
> F4L or perhaps the Sigma 70-200 F2.8 EX. Browsing around today gave the
> impression that I can expect to get them for around half the price of
buying
> them here.
>
> So, anyone got any experiences to share? I read today that buying a proper
> US import gets you a worldwide warranty with the Canons, so that shouldn't
> be a problem. HM C&E may want some funds off me to bring them back,
though.
> Any recommended retailers? Any to avoid?
Hello Steve! What a small world it is!
I've no useful advice to offer but had thought about going to the USA a
while back just for a weekend to buy some Canon lenses.
The price difference would have paid for the break & then some.
The way I was going to do it was to take out a couple of crappy old lenses
(I mean *really* crappy - perhaps purchased from a car-boot sale or eBay -
they don't even have to fit the camera) - and pack them with the rest of
your gear (SLR, flash etc). This is just so that no-one gets suspicious of
you on the way out there.
When you get there, bin the crappy lenses, buy the new ones, flat-pack the
boxes, warranties, receipts etc and post them to your home address (or maybe
to somewhere else you can collect them later?), stick the new lenses in your
camera bag and fly home.
Nobody is to know you haven't owned the lenses for *ages* and that you
didn't buy them in the UK.... "I bought them off a bloke - he was hard up
and needed the cash - no, he didn't give me a receipt."
Another thought - why stop at the F4Ls or the Sigma? Surely it's worth going
the whole hog and getting F2.8 in each?
Good luck whatever you do.
--
Sorby
Notty Pine
"Sorby" <So...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c18kn5$1e44rt$1...@ID-172789.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> The way I was going to do it was to take out a couple of crappy old
lenses
> (I mean *really* crappy - perhaps purchased from a car-boot sale or
eBay -
> they don't even have to fit the camera) - and pack them with the
rest of
> your gear (SLR, flash etc). This is just so that no-one gets
suspicious of
> you on the way out there.
>
> When you get there, bin the crappy lenses, buy the new ones,
flat-pack the
> boxes, warranties, receipts etc and post them to your home address
(or maybe
> to somewhere else you can collect them later?), stick the new lenses
in your
> camera bag and fly home.
>
> Nobody is to know you haven't owned the lenses for *ages* and that
you
> didn't buy them in the UK.... "I bought them off a bloke - he was
hard up
> and needed the cash - no, he didn't give me a receipt."
>
Not heard that one before sir, we customs officers are really stupid
you know, no further questions sir, just go on your way.
Next - You have 20,000 cigarettes that you found on the tarmac as you
walked off the plane? Just hang on to them sir, if nobody reports them
lost in 6 months, then they are yours to keep.
Next - You are taking this 2kg of heroin to the police station, to
show them how easy it is to buy in Morocco, how public spirited of you
sir. just carry on, but make sure you don't lose it on the way, as
some unscrupulous people might try and sell it.
Next -
Sorby
news:c18og6$1fc9jt$1...@ID-8943.news.uni-berlin.de...
Ah! Dr. Killjoy I presume?!
Anyway, you're not comparing apples with apples.
Although top-quality lenses are certainly addictive. :o)
--
Sorby
Simon Waldman
> I'm after a couple of lenses; the Canon 17-40mm F4L and either the 70-200
> F4L or perhaps the Sigma 70-200 F2.8 EX. Browsing around today gave the
> impression that I can expect to get them for around half the price of buying
> them here.
>
> So, anyone got any experiences to share?
I can't comment on the US Mainland, but in St. Thomas (caribbean island)
and St. Martin (not US territory, but mostly US customers and priced in
US$) I found it almost impossible to find Sigma lenses. The few shops
that did have them only had Nikon mount versions.
No such problem with the Canons, I only wish I'd had the funds to splash
out while I was there...
--
"Let's add those two results with a minus sign" -Prof. W.J.Stirling
---------------------------------------------------------------
Simon Waldman, UK email: swal...@firecloud.org.uk
http://www.firecloud.org.uk/simon
---------------------------------------------------------------
M...@mj.com
>
>Nobody is to know you haven't owned the lenses for *ages* and that you
>didn't buy them in the UK.... "I bought them off a bloke - he was hard up
>and needed the cash - no, he didn't give me a receipt."
C&E have access to a database of such equipment. By entering the
serial number on the lens they know which country it was bought in and
approximate date of manufacture.
On a more positive note, in all the 15 years that I've been travelling
to the US a couple of times a year I've hardly ever seen any Customs
officers present on the early morning flights arriving at Heathrow &
Gatwick from the US. You'd be extremely unlucky to get stopped.
However, if you go this route then you will have to run this gauntlet
on returning from every trip abroad with your US lenses, and wondering
if C&E will ever stop you and ask for details and proof of purchase.
MJ
Steve Morgan
>
> Hello Steve!
Wotcha, Rob!
> What a small world it is!
That's what I thought; I only found this newsgroup today and I was a bit
suprised to find your nick popping up. A Canon digital user, too, eh? We
really must get around to having that pint.
> I've no useful advice to offer but had thought about going to the USA a
> while back just for a weekend to buy some Canon lenses.
> The price difference would have paid for the break & then some.
>
> The way I was going to do it was to take out a couple of crappy old lenses
> (I mean *really* crappy - perhaps purchased from a car-boot sale or eBay -
> they don't even have to fit the camera) - and pack them with the rest of
> your gear (SLR, flash etc). This is just so that no-one gets suspicious
of
> you on the way out there.
>
> When you get there, bin the crappy lenses, buy the new ones, flat-pack the
> boxes, warranties, receipts etc and post them to your home address (or
maybe
> to somewhere else you can collect them later?), stick the new lenses in
your
> camera bag and fly home.
>
> Nobody is to know you haven't owned the lenses for *ages* and that you
> didn't buy them in the UK.... "I bought them off a bloke - he was hard up
> and needed the cash - no, he didn't give me a receipt."
You've got it sussed, then. Can you get me a couple while you're there ;-)
> Another thought - why stop at the F4Ls or the Sigma? Surely it's worth
going
> the whole hog and getting F2.8 in each?
Love to. What stops me is the same as thing that has me flying "veal calf
class" to get there in the first place. I could try the "look, dear, I've
just saved 800 quid on this lens" approach, but the bloody credit card
company still expects their money back!
Povl H. Pedersen
> On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 22:04:49 -0000, "Sorby" <So...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Nobody is to know you haven't owned the lenses for *ages* and that you
>>didn't buy them in the UK.... "I bought them off a bloke - he was hard up
>>and needed the cash - no, he didn't give me a receipt."
>
>
> C&E have access to a database of such equipment. By entering the
> serial number on the lens they know which country it was bought in and
> approximate date of manufacture.
But they can't see if it was ever legally imported into the EU.
If I buy it legally, and have it shipped to here, and I pay
taxes + VAT, all they will know is that some lenses EU category
xxx at a value of y was imported.
Has anybody ever experienced them wanting proof of purchase for
older used equipment ?
I live in Denmark, and would only consider it a risk if I
brought things in in original boxes.
Tony Parkinson
> On 2004-02-22, M...@MJ.com <M...@MJ.com> wrote:
> > C&E have access to a database of such equipment. By entering the
> > serial number on the lens they know which country it was bought in and
> > approximate date of manufacture.
>
> But they can't see if it was ever legally imported into the EU.
> If I buy it legally, and have it shipped to here, and I pay
> taxes + VAT, all they will know is that some lenses EU category
> xxx at a value of y was imported.
>
> Has anybody ever experienced them wanting proof of purchase for
> older used equipment ?
>
When I moved to work in the USA for a year and wished to take my camera gear
with me, I was advised that I had to provide C&E with a list of items of
camera gear (including serial numbers) I was taking with me, get it stamped
by them prior to departure and show them the list on my return.
Having said that, on my return, I went to the "red" channel and showed them
the list as advised, they took one look at the list and waved me through the
"green" channel without checking anything against the list.
--
Time travel . . . . . . . . . the way to buy a Home Computer that won't be
obsolete in 6 months
Steve
>> Not heard that one before sir, we customs officers are really stupid
>> you know, no further questions sir, just go on your way.
>> Next - You have 20,000 cigarettes that you found on the tarmac as you
>> walked off the plane? Just hang on to them sir, if nobody reports them
>> lost in 6 months, then they are yours to keep.
>> Next - You are taking this 2kg of heroin to the police station, to
>> show them how easy it is to buy in Morocco, how public spirited of you
>> sir. just carry on, but make sure you don't lose it on the way, as
>> some unscrupulous people might try and sell it.
>> Next -
>
> Ah! Dr. Killjoy I presume?!
> Anyway, you're not comparing apples with apples.
> Although top-quality lenses are certainly addictive. :o)
Humour aside, customs officers are not dumb. Remember, there is a limit to
the value of things you can bring back. Also HMC&E have greater powers than
the Police. If they suspect you bought something overseas, the onus is then
on *you* to prove you didn't. And this isn't just conjecture - I've known
it happen to friends. Basically, it goes something like this:
"Bought this on your trip, did you Sir?"
"No, had it ages. Took it out there with me."
"Oh right. Well, we'll just hang on to it while you pop home and get the
receipt to show us."
"Bloke ... hard up ... no receipt."
"Oh dear, what a shame. For you. Next!"
The rule is, if you're taking stuff temporarily out of the country - stuff
that might attract import duty when you're coming back in - you're supposed
to get a carnet to prove it. Without a carnet, or at least a UK receipt,
Customs are perfectly in their rights to impound the item, at their
discretion. My first job was as an assistant for an advertising
photographer and one of my regular tasks was getting carnets for his kit
(from the DTI in those days, IIRC).
M...@mj.com
<nos...@home.terminal.dk> wrote:
>On 2004-02-22, M...@MJ.com <M...@MJ.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 22:04:49 -0000, "Sorby" <So...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Nobody is to know you haven't owned the lenses for *ages* and that you
>>>didn't buy them in the UK.... "I bought them off a bloke - he was hard up
>>>and needed the cash - no, he didn't give me a receipt."
>>
>>
>> C&E have access to a database of such equipment. By entering the
>> serial number on the lens they know which country it was bought in and
>> approximate date of manufacture.
>
>But they can't see if it was ever legally imported into the EU.
>If I buy it legally, and have it shipped to here, and I pay
>taxes + VAT, all they will know is that some lenses EU category
>xxx at a value of y was imported.
>
Yes, they may not know if it was legally imported, but it's not up to
them to say either way. They just know it was imported (on a personal
basis, as opposed to through a normal sales outlet). It will be up to
you to prove that it was legally imported, by way of a sales receipt.
If the C&E officer is in a bad mood or you look at him in a funny way
he can hold on to your equipment until you prove payment of import tax
and vat. And you'll dig yourself in even deeper if you try to go down
the road of saying you bought it secondhand, off ebay etc.
MJ
Liz
M...@MJ.com wrote:
> If the C&E officer is in a bad mood or you look at him in a funny way
> he can hold on to your equipment until you prove payment of import tax
> and vat. And you'll dig yourself in even deeper if you try to go down
> the road of saying you bought it secondhand, off ebay etc.
The *truth* in my case is that my main camera body and two main lenses are
replacements on insurance, and I don't have a receipt for them. Of course, I
had receipts for the originals, but I probably threw them out, as the serial
numbers don't correspond.
Liz
--
Virtual Liz at http://www.v-liz.co.uk
Kenya; Tanzania; India; Seychelles; Namibia
"I speak of Africa and golden joys"
Kevin Stephens
I have never had my gear examined by customs when returning to the UK
Anyway, the worst that can happen is having to pay duty.
On the other hand I believe you canavoid some state taxes when shoping in
the /uS if you sow your passport?
"Liz" <l...@v-liz.co.uk> wrote in message
news:042e62854c...@v-liz.co.uk...
Steve Morgan
news:xMu_b.138$ie6...@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
> Isn't all this scare mongering?
>
> I have never had my gear examined by customs when returning to the UK
>
> Anyway, the worst that can happen is having to pay duty.
I don't think it's that simple. It's tax evasion and smuggling. If they
suspect that you're up to no good they can confiscate the goods and/or
prosecute. You make a deliberate choice to enter either the red or green
channel. Take the green channel when you've something to declare and you're
breaking the law.
Liz
"Kevin Stephens" <cs001...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Isn't all this scare mongering?
>
> I have never had my gear examined by customs when returning to the UK
>
Once I had a bloke ask me if I'd bought my stuff when abroad.
The funny thing was, we'd been to Cyprus, where the camera gear I saw in
shops was even more expensive than it is here!
Anyway, I told him this and he accepted it.
(Possibly the second hand stickers from Jessops were also indicative!)
TP
>Isn't all this scare mongering?
>
>I have never had my gear examined by customs when returning to the UK
>
>Anyway, the worst that can happen is having to pay duty.
Not so. The worst that can happen is that the goods will be
confiscated and you will be prosecuted for evading duty and VAT.
This only happens to people who go through the green channel and fail
to declare the goods.
So don't worry. All you need to do is go through red and declare them.
;-)
M...@mj.com
<cs001...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>Isn't all this scare mongering?
>
>I have never had my gear examined by customs when returning to the UK
>
>Anyway, the worst that can happen is having to pay duty.
>
>On the other hand I believe you canavoid some state taxes when shoping in
>the /uS if you sow your passport?
Not scaremongering. Just the experience of a friend. The customs
officer used the database to check serial numbers on his camera
equipment and questioned him on where they were bought.
Myself, I too have been travelling abroad frequently over 15 years
and returning with a 'flexible' approach and haven't been stopped -
until last year, when going through green on returning from Tokyo. I
was exiting amid a crowd of people and had a tap on the shoulder.
'Excuse me sir, which flight have you just arrived on?' When I said
Tokyo , he said thank you, off you go. As I'd been fairly liberal with
the mastercard I experienced a moment of heightened anxiety.
MJ
Pat Chaney
> Anyway, the worst that can happen is having to pay duty.
I think that confiscation and prosecution is the worst that can happen.
--
Pat
M...@mj.com
wrote:
>Kevin Stephens <cs001...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Anyway, the worst that can happen is having to pay duty.
>
>I think that confiscation and prosecution is the worst that can happen.
Actually, in my case, being an airport worker, on acquiring a criminal
record now I'd also lose my airport access hence my job. So I'll have
to revise my shopping habits now.
MJ
Roderick Stewart
> The rule is, if you're taking stuff temporarily out of the country - stuff
> that might attract import duty when you're coming back in - you're supposed
> to get a carnet to prove it. Without a carnet, or at least a UK receipt,
> Customs are perfectly in their rights to impound the item, at their
> discretion. My first job was as an assistant for an advertising
> photographer and one of my regular tasks was getting carnets for his kit
> (from the DTI in those days, IIRC).
TV and movie companies have to take this very seriously indeed. A carnet for
a typical location shoot can run to many pages, and I have been told (though
admittedly I can't quote chapter and verse to confirm it) that if one item on
the carnet is wrong they can impound the whole lot.
Rod.
Andy Davidson
> "Kevin Stephens" <cs001...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>I have never had my gear examined by customs when returning to the UK
>>Anyway, the worst that can happen is having to pay duty.
> Not so. The worst that can happen is that the goods will be
> confiscated and you will be prosecuted for evading duty and VAT.
> This only happens to people who go through the green channel and fail
Given how strong the £ is against the $, isn't it still likely to be
cheaper to buy a decent camera in the US and legally declare it on
entry ?
--
Andy
Simon Gardner
"Steve Morgan" <smor...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> HM C&E may want some funds off me to bring them back
6.7 per cent duty on lenses. Then 17.5 per cent VAT on the lot.
Simon Gardner
"Sorby" <So...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Nobody is to know you haven't owned the lenses for *ages* and that you
> didn't buy them in the UK.... "I bought them off a bloke - he was hard up
> and needed the cash - no, he didn't give me a receipt."
Wow. Customs have never heard this one before. Very impressive.
Simon Gardner
"Kevin Stephens" <cs001...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Anyway, the worst that can happen is having to pay duty.
That most certainly isn't "the worst that can happen". Not by a long way.
Simon Gardner
Andy Davidson <$andy$@nosignal.org> wrote:
> Given how strong the £ is against the $, isn't it still likely to be
> cheaper to buy a decent camera in the US and legally declare it on
> entry ?
Yes. I just saved <US$>1,500 doing just that - and I shipped and personally
imported rather than actually travelled with the goods. Big saving.
Sorby
news:BC6A3B9B...@lagu.powernet.co.uk...
Yes, but I posted that 10 days ago - I was young, innocent and
impressionable back then.
--
Sorby
Duncan Allan
Duncan
"Simon Gardner" <66...@hack.powernet[dot]co[dot]uk> wrote in message
news:BC6A3B9E...@lagu.powernet.co.uk...
Daniel Taylor
"Martin Trautmann" <t-...@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:slrnc3u5bk...@ID-685.user.individual.de...
> On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 02:40:28 +0000, M...@MJ.com wrote:
> > C&E have access to a database of such equipment. By entering the
> > serial number on the lens they know which country it was bought in and
> > approximate date of manufacture.
>
> it's valuable info e.g. for studies or used parts.
>
If you consider the manpower of keeping a database of camera s/n's plus
other goods for that matter, it is highly unlikely that C&E could have such
a system.
Bear in mind how many ways cameras can enter the country and the various
reliefs that can apply. If a camera was imported into another member
(EU)State it would be into free circulation and not applicable for UK VAT or
duty. Such a database would then need to track all european camera movements
and not just those in the UK.
Daniel
Steve
Not necessarily. The database doesn't need to hold complete serial numbers.
You'll usually find that just the first two or three digits/characters will
tell them for which market the item was intended - ie, when Nikon sends
items to the US it gives them a different *series* of numbers from those
intended for the EU. Of course, Nikon and other firms have sometimes gone
further than this and given the kit completely different names - I think it
was the F90 that was known in the US as the F202 (working from memory, but
it was something like that).
Your point about the EU is basically irrelevant because once VAT has been
paid in one EU country that takes care of it. (This is something that some
aeroplane owners have learned the hard way - and this illustrates the power
of customs. For a variety of reasons, many private owners in the UK have
taken to buying N-reg - ie, US-registered - aircraft. But when they popped
across the channel they found their aircraft being impounded by French
customs, who would hold the aircraft until the owner could show
documentation proving that VAT had been paid in some EU country. Most such
owners have now added photocopies of the purchase receipts to the list of
on-board documents).
Daniel Taylor
The original poster was suggesting that C&E had access to database showing
where an item was original sold. One of the points I was trying was raise
was that such a database would be useless for determining whether an item
was VAT paid.
A lens of UK origin could be sold under export or Retail Export scheme VAT
free. So bringing it back into the UK it would be chargable. Similarly, a US
lens could have been legal imported and VAT paid.
There would be not point in <them> keeping a database when the only way of
satisfying the VAT status is the original VAT invoice or C88 import
documentation.
This is the same reason the airplane and yacht owners are having problems.
The British Marine Federation have been campaigning for C&E to certify
yachts sold in the UK and passed between EU residents as VAT paid. They will
not do it (as yet) because even this is not seen as conclusive proof that
something is VAT paid.
TP
>
>I think it
>was the F90 that was known in the US as the F202 (working from memory, but
>it was something like that).
Also from memory:
F301 - N2000
F401 - N4004
F401X - N5000
F501 - N2020
F601 - N6006
F70 - N70
F80 - N80
F801 - N8008
F801s - N8008s
F90 - N90
F90X - N90s
F100 - F100 (same)
Nikon lenses supplied via Nikon USA have an
"A" in front of the serial number.
Steve
> The original poster was suggesting that C&E had access to database showing
> where an item was original sold. One of the points I was trying was raise
> was that such a database would be useless for determining whether an item
> was VAT paid.
Doesn't matter. The point is that a database of serial number series will
alert C&E to the fact that the item was originally shipped to a specific
market. That greatly increases the probability that they will impound it
pending you providing proof that VAT has been paid. The key point is that
the onus is on you to prove it - they don't need to keep track of VAT
payments, you do. The database is far from useless because it tells them
whether they have reasonable grounds to query the item, which helps them be
more efficient. If they checked the database and found that the lens or
whatever was originally shipped to the EU, they'd know that they'd probably
be wasting their time. If they find that the lens was originally shipped to
the US, they'll treat any stories you might tell with much greater
suspicion. So whether VAT has actually been paid is beside the point - that
comes later - these databases simply help them target their activities more
efficiently, a way of raising a red flag.
Simon Gardner
Steve <ph...@nomail.com> wrote:
> Your point about the EU is basically irrelevant because once VAT has been
> paid in one EU country that takes care of it. (This is something that some
> aeroplane owners have learned the hard way - and this illustrates the power
> of customs. For a variety of reasons, many private owners in the UK have
> taken to buying N-reg - ie, US-registered - aircraft. But when they popped
> across the channel they found their aircraft being impounded by French
> customs, who would hold the aircraft until the owner could show
> documentation proving that VAT had been paid in some EU country. Most such
> owners have now added photocopies of the purchase receipts to the list of
> on-board documents).
Quite. I just bought my 10D and lenses from the US and had some certified
copies of the customs receipts done so I don't have problems on re-entry.
There's a set permanently in my camera carring bag.