H&E Naturist Day at Eureka (UK)
Richard Linsley Hood
..snip
> You've further blown the naturists credibility. All you guys care about
> is appearances and covering this up. You'd rather come after me than
> clean up your own trashy backyard, and until you do then you are going to
> have me on your neeked asses. Know that.
Eureka is just ONE club amongst the some 20 or so other naturist clubs that
operate in the south of the UK. NONE of the others are in any way similar
to, or can be compared to, Eureka.
I neither condone nor cover up others actions. I may opt to speak out (in
forums such as this - and other places). I may opt to remain silent. The
descision to remain silent does not imply that I approve or support those
particular actions.
I would like to know just what legal, practical and effective actions you
propose that we here in the UK do against this legally operated club? If
you have any evidence that UK law has been broken I will do my best to pass
that information to the proper authorities and see that it is acted on.
Over to you. You insist that action should be taken, yet always manage to
forget to say what it should be. You now have me on your obviously non
neeked ass. What action should be taken? What will its objectives be?
How will it be effective? When should it be taken? By Whom?
P.S. I live some 120 miles from the establishment in question so a personal
visit will not be easy to arrange even if work / home allows.
--
Richard Linsley Hood | Poole, Dorset UK | email: rich...@dakal.demon.co.uk
"Programming is mirroring the world, inside a computer" Larry O'Brien 1991
rere
dcsl (dc...@pavilion.co.uk) wrote:
: I spent yesterday (28 August, a bank holiday here in the UK) at the
: Eureka club in Kent (county), England. The club's premises were
: borrowed for the day by Health & Efficiency (a UK naturist
: publication), who had declared that day to be Naturist Day. The day's
: events started with a nude aerobics workout on the stage given by a
: guy and two women, who then invited members of the audience up on
: stage to have a go. (They managed to get quite a few men up there but
: the women were too shy to join in, with one or two exceptions.)
With all those pornographers around, I can't *image* why.
: A little later, there was a slide-show and photographic workshop by
: Charlie Simmonds, who is well known in UK naturist circles for his
: H&E naturist videos.
Oh, how nice. I'll make a note him. :-)
I didn't attend (Eureka's table-tennis room was
: packed to the gunwales for the slide-show) but peering through the
: window it appeared to be an intelligent and useful guide for amateur
: photographers to improve their techniques. Charlie had a couple of]
: models with him, who posed by the pool after the slide-show while
: Charlie continued giving tips to the budding photographers there that
: day. (I was rather pleased to see that he got the photographers to
: wade into the icy pool while the models posed on the edge: so often
: it's the other way round at the photo shoots which are regularly held
: at Eureka.)
We know just what kind of models -- H & E girls -- you are talking about.
: There was a massage workshop led by David Martin, a naturist
: publisher and organizer of naturist events and also (rather
What does he publish? Just curious.
: controversially) of liberated parties for adults. There was nothing
: sexual about the massage workshop, however
of COURSE not, just wholesome body acceptance. Were the H & E
girls/models the ones lying on the tables getting the massages, or did the
men massage each other? ;-)
: (fortunately, as the people attending were 95% men).
Were they nudists or naturists? ;-)
: Three H&E awards were announced to people who had made an outstanding
: contribution to UK naturism: Sue Piper (not present), Gerry Ryland
: (not present), and Mark Wilson (owner of Eureka and present).
How proud they must have been, eh?
: An H&E bookstall operated throughout the day, selling books, videos,
: T-shirts, etc., and there was a bouncy castle for the children, who
Did they sell a lot?
: The next event at Eureka is 'It's a Knockout' (try asking on
: soc.culture.british if you want to know what that it), next Sunday,
: 3 September. As always, visitors are welcome: a day-visit costs
: GBP 8.00 for men, nothing at all for women and children, and the
: sauna will be running at GBP 1.00 a head.
I'm interested.
--
** Re Re **
*****************PGP 2.6.2.*****************
Public Key fm pgp-pub...@pgp.ai.mit.edu
**********Subj: GET re...@netcom.com*********
Michael Moore's TV Nation is on Friday nights on FOX
Be sure to see the movie Bandit Queen too!
****************************************************
rere
: > I spent yesterday (28 August, a bank holiday here in the UK) at the
: > Eureka club in Kent (county), England. The club's premises were
: > borrowed for the day by Health & Efficiency (a UK naturist
: > publication)
: Have you read anything on this newsgroup before ??. If you have you ought
: to know that you have just provided "rere" with all the amunition she
: needs to rubbish the UK naturist scene.
wazzamatter, doesn't he know the code of silence and acceptance yet? Tee
hee. Yeah, he did kinda blow it, didn't he. :-) It's interesting how you
make his post a negative against me instead of him, H & E and Eureka.
You've further blown the naturists credibility. All you guys care about
is appearances and covering this up. You'd rather come after me than
clean up your own trashy backyard, and until you do then you are going to
have me on your neeked asses. Know that.
Michael D. Bartman
>P.S. I live some 120 miles from the establishment in question so a personal
>visit will not be easy to arrange even if work / home allows.
120 miles is a long way in the UK? That's only a 2 hour drive, what's the
problem?
Maybe it's different over here or something, but our company picnic was held
about 100 miles from our offices last month. I used to have a girlfriend who
lived 130 miles from where I lived (and another that was closer to 220, which
is about the distancce to my dad's house now. I've driven 200 miles for a
weekend event, for weddings, and for funerals. It's no big deal here. Just
about *everything* is at least 30 minutes away, no matter what you want. Most
people around big cities have 1 hour or longer commutes every morning and
evening. What's the problem with a 120 mile trip if it's someplace you want
to see? That's a day trip here.
It appears that the difference between the US and the UK is that in the UK 100
miles is a long way, and in the US 100 years is a long time... ;^)
-- Mike "from the US, but my wife is from Scotland" Bartman --
C Speed
>people around big cities have 1 hour or longer commutes every morning and
>evening. What's the problem with a 120 mile trip if it's someplace you want
>to see? That's a day trip here.
I "commute" for an hour each way, but I only live 20 miles away from work.
That could be part of the difference *&)
Claire
--
******************************************************************************
* C.Speed - <spe...@cs.man.ac.uk> * If I sound like a distant echo its *
* <http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~speedc/> * because my news is slow.. slow.. slow *
******************************************************************************
rere
: In article <rereDE4...@netcom.com>, re...@netcom.com (rere) wrote:
: > wazzamatter, doesn't he know the code of silence and acceptance yet? Tee
: > hee. Yeah, he did kinda blow it, didn't he. :-) It's interesting how you
: > make his post a negative against me instead of him, H & E and Eureka.
: > You've further blown the naturists credibility. All you guys care about
: > is appearances and covering this up. You'd rather come after me than
: > clean up your own trashy backyard, and until you do then you are going to
: > have me on your neeked asses. Know that.
: > --
: I phrased my short reply the way I did because I found it incredible that
: anyone would post a message enthusing about H&E and Eureka when when this
: subject had so recently been beaten to death on this newsgroup.
: For the record I have no time for either H&E or Eureka, There is no "code
: of silence and acceptance", H&E and Eureka are NOT representative of UK
: naturism, but, since they are outside the control of the CCBN, there is
: nothing I can do about them. They are commercial operations and, as long
: as they continue to make money, they will continue to exist.
Thanks for the clarifications. And even though that might not have been
the case here there surely is a code of silence in the
nudist/naturist movement and there is acceptance and tolerance of this scum.
There is plenty you can do to separate from commercial operations and I
urge you naturists in the UK to start doing that in a VERY assertive way
with clubs like eureka and H & E.
--
*****************PGP 2.6.2.*****************
Public Key fm pgp-pub...@pgp.ai.mit.edu
**********Subj: GET re...@netcom.com*********
****************************************************
David Looser
> wazzamatter, doesn't he know the code of silence and acceptance yet? Tee
> hee. Yeah, he did kinda blow it, didn't he. :-) It's interesting how you
> make his post a negative against me instead of him, H & E and Eureka.
> You've further blown the naturists credibility. All you guys care about
> is appearances and covering this up. You'd rather come after me than
> clean up your own trashy backyard, and until you do then you are going to
> have me on your neeked asses. Know that.
> --
I phrased my short reply the way I did because I found it incredible that
anyone would post a message enthusing about H&E and Eureka when when this
subject had so recently been beaten to death on this newsgroup.
For the record I have no time for either H&E or Eureka, There is no "code
of silence and acceptance", H&E and Eureka are NOT representative of UK
naturism, but, since they are outside the control of the CCBN, there is
nothing I can do about them. They are commercial operations and, as long
as they continue to make money, they will continue to exist.
David.
rere
I traveled more than 120 miles to check out Naked City, interviewed Drost
to find out where he was at and others at his whore house nudist camp and
after that I worked with police agencies, wrote articles got information
out, confronted every person who defended him and informed others about
him, what his camp was like and what he was doing and what he had done
and what his convictions had been for, wrote letters, cooperated with several
private investigators which played some small part in getting his last
conviction for pimping and pandering of minors. My work partly resulted
in him getting on the caution list because of those I educated about the
issue and I have caused him other trouble besides this.
I was an activist the whole time I was a naturist and I will continue to
be. If there were nude children's beauty pageants only 120 miles --
I mean GIVE me a break this is a 2 l/2 hour drive,
when I KNOW many of you guys go hundreds more on a regular
basis just to get a damn tan -- I'd be there finding out a little bit
more about what was going on. As far as what you do with our naturist
clubs in England that is your responsibility, but first thing I would
advise you to do is change your attitude and know that you need to make
that drive and do the necessary research to find out what is going on at
that camp -- not just on their regular days but when they have the
pornographers and "models" into the camp and especially when
they have their beauty pageant contests. There are all kinds of things
you can do to put a stop to children's beauty pageants. We did them over
here, but first you'll have to take the first step and that is taking
responsibility for the scum in your movement -- the good with the bad --
and stop turning your backs on them and then you have to decide that you
want them OUT. First you have to admit you have a problem instead of
sticking your heads in that beach sand. Then of course you will have to
decide to go after them with the energy with which you go after me. :-)
That will be the real hard part.
NoalReid
>but first you'll have to take the first step and that is taking
>responsibility for the scum in your movement -- the good with the bad --
There's GOOD scum? :)
Noal
Richard Linsley Hood
mi...@cais.com "Michael D. Bartman" writes:
>
> >P.S. I live some 120 miles from the establishment in question so a personal
> >visit will not be easy to arrange even if work / home allows.
>
> 120 miles is a long way in the UK? That's only a 2 hour drive, what's the
> problem?
Not when the 120 miles includes the M25, once described (quite accurately) as
the longest 3 (now 4) lane parking lot in the world. Just to get round that
part alone can take 2 hours or more - I know from painful experience.
> Maybe it's different over here or something, but our company picnic was held
> about 100 miles from our offices last month. I used to have a girlfriend who
> lived 130 miles from where I lived (and another that was closer to 220, which
> is about the distancce to my dad's house now. I've driven 200 miles for a
> weekend event, for weddings, and for funerals. It's no big deal here. Just
> about *everything* is at least 30 minutes away, no matter what you want. Most
> people around big cities have 1 hour or longer commutes every morning and
> evening. What's the problem with a 120 mile trip if it's someplace you want
> to see? That's a day trip here.
As someone who last Tuesday drove some 600 miles in a single day back from the
south of France I don't normally consider 120 * 2 = 240 miles to be something
I would normally consider to be an evenings entertainment. I have done it,
but I don't like it.
The question is - is it someplace I would want to see or vist - I don't think
so.
> It appears that the difference between the US and the UK is that in the UK 100
> miles is a long way, and in the US 100 years is a long time... ;^)
--
Richard Linsley Hood
..snip
> I was an activist the whole time I was a naturist and I will continue to
> be. If there were nude children's beauty pageants only 120 miles --
> I mean GIVE me a break this is a 2 l/2 hour drive,
Not if includes the M25, more like a 4 hour drive * 2 - I know I used
to have a Head Office not far from there.
> when I KNOW many of you guys go hundreds more on a regular
> basis just to get a damn tan -- I'd be there finding out a little bit
The back garden is feet away, the beach I use less than 4 miles, the club
about 30 miles.
..snip
> responsibility for the scum in your movement -- the good with the bad --
> and stop turning your backs on them and then you have to decide that you
> want them OUT. First you have to admit you have a problem instead of
> sticking your heads in that beach sand. Then of course you will have to
> decide to go after them with the energy with which you go after me. :-)
> That will be the real hard part.
What makes you think they are not already out. Find any support for them in
any British Naturist forum.
I have never 'gone after you'. I have merely asked for what action you
suggest we take - other than that already done. It is interesting that
you managed to focus on the distance without answering the questions I
posed.
Richard Linsley Hood
> David Looser (dlo...@bt-sys.bt.co.uk) wrote:
> : In article <rereDE4...@netcom.com>, re...@netcom.com (rere) wrote:
>
> : For the record I have no time for either H&E or Eureka, There is no "code
> : of silence and acceptance", H&E and Eureka are NOT representative of UK
> : naturism, but, since they are outside the control of the CCBN, there is
> : nothing I can do about them. They are commercial operations and, as long
> : as they continue to make money, they will continue to exist.
>
> Thanks for the clarifications. And even though that might not have been
> the case here there surely is a code of silence in the
> nudist/naturist movement and there is acceptance and tolerance of this scum.
Not over here in the UK apparently.
> There is plenty you can do to separate from commercial operations and I
> urge you naturists in the UK to start doing that in a VERY assertive way
> with clubs like eureka and H & E.
In what way? You are strong with the generalisations, short on the
specifics.
Chris Mellor
> decide to go after them with the energy with which you go after me. :-)
> That will be the real hard part.
Energy? Go after you? Do me a favour! It's like
swatting a fly. Buzz off.
Chris.
rere
: >A little later, there was a slide-show and photographic workshop by
: >Charlie Simmonds, who is well known in UK naturist circles for his
: >H&E naturist videos. I didn't attend (Eureka's table-tennis room was
: Acck! Accck!
: My less-than-naturist, but-trying-to-be-hip, mother and step-father bought me
: one of those things at the store at Club Orient. "Treasure Island", or
: something like that. Little plot, lousy dialogue, bad acting, and lots of
: lingering shots of four young women showering, sunning, and playing in the
HEAVENS! I didn't think ANYthing like **THAT** went on in the naturist
circles in the UK!!!!!! I'm A-B-S-O-L-U-T-E-L-Y SHOCKED!!!!!!!! ;-) Tee hee.
: water -- all with a lame "naturist morality tag" at the end, followed by the
wholesome body acceptance, blabbity, blabbity, blabbity, blab...
: naturobimbos plugging other videos
Those are probably the girls getting the massages at Eureka with the
95% men standin' around and gettin' a little, ummmmmmmm, hands-on
experience.
: with lines like "If you like me in this video, you can see more of me
in...."
lemme guess ....... Health and Efficiency. Did I get it right, oh mighty
cheefdan.
: Sorry, but that just ain't naturism to me...
It sounds wonderful. Oh mighty will you please send me a copy? I sure
would appreciate it. I'll write up a review for uk.rec.naturst and
rec.nude. :-)
bur...@movies.enet.dec.com
In article <424cmg$p...@yama.mcc.ac.uk>, spe...@cs.man.ac.uk (C Speed) writes:
[snip]
My goodness, Claire, do you read and contribute to *every* group in the uk hierarchy?
:-}>
Richard
--
Please don't associate Digital with my *very* personal opinions.
bur...@movies.enet.dec.com
Michael D. Bartman in article <mike.696...@cais.com> writes in great detail about his perosnal travel
arrangements. Now read on...
Yes, we all know about USAmericans' right to cheap petrol (gasoline), lack
of interest in the environment and loads of space to build new roads.
Despite that, plenty of people here have to travel long distances and have long
commute times. (I have to make a 550-mile round trip when I visit Digital.) We
have plenty of traffic on the road, and this summer the relevant
government department appealed to us to use our cars less because of high pollution levels
nationwide.
So what? Surely the point of the original comment was that if you have
to do all this driving anyway you're not going to make a long trip for
something that you don't regard as important.
Now back to the topic:
It is unfortunate that H&E *is* taken by some as representative of
naturism. A journalist called Catherine Bennett made a very unpleasant
attack on naturist beaches in the Guardian a few months ago (they
published my letter in reply the following day). She described H&E as
the "house journal" of naturism and (I quote from memory, so may not be
quite accurate) as a "justification of lechery", which
gave her the right to say "it is obvious what naturists are up to".
Whatever you think of H&E, I think few people who know naturism would
agree that it paints a true picture of naturism (where in real life do
you find the dunes full of 19-year-old girls standing awkwardly with their
legs apart? No, that's a rhetorical question, not a request for
information :-)> ). Few would disagree that H&E is directed at men who
read "girlie" magazines rather than naturists. However, I'm not sure
that it's a major problem - most of the readers of H&E are unlikely to
become naturists, and readers of H&E are only a small part of the
population.
What to do? Well, Re Re appears to suffer from the common delusion of
USAmericans that in every country except their own all you have to do is
to ask the government to ban something and it will be banned. In
fact, there is nothing that can be done to stop H&E publishing what it
wants to (unless it violates a specific law) and I wouldn't want to do
that anyway. H&E does not come within the category of porn that would
result in conviction in any court in the late 20th century.
(Incidentally, a police authority responsible for this type of
investigation was quoted recently as saying that they concentrate their
resources on child porn, these days.)
As far as I know (I don't speak for them here) CCBN has unequivocally
dissociated itself from H&E, but with a commendable regard for freedom of
speech in allowing someone to speak in support of H&E in BN recently. Re
Re is always vague about courses of action, but does she suppose they
ought to expel members who read H&E or speak favourably of it? I would
not support that.
The only thing that CCBN really can do is to be more vocal in promoting
genuine naturism. If they continually attack H&E I am sure the
publishers will be delighted with the extra publicity (Re Re has almost
certainly boosted sales in the US already).
As for Eureka, I haven't been there; perhaps I shall some time when I'm in the area, but it's a 400 miles round trip in the wrong direction :-)>. It has something of a reputation
as a swinger's club, partly gained from advertising in sex magazines
like Forum. It tends to stand apart by describing itself as a "nudist"
club - I think no other UK club does that.
Again, CCBN has no connection with it. Personally, I object to beauty
contests, especially for kids, but there is no law as far as I know to
stop them.
Apart from that, I really think it's the members own business
what they get up to, within the law. The attendance seems from reports to be
predominantly adult male in any case - do many families go? If there is a risk to children, the first protection should be for parents not to take their children
there.
We have a well-developed system for protecting children in this country (which
does not necessarily involve the police), but like all institutions,
including those in the US, it is fallible. If anyone suspects that there
may be harm to children at Eureka the best people to contact would be the Kent
County Council Social Services department. I rather suspect that, in
view of the reputation of the place, they already have people visiting there.
Richard
(gymno...@wiseword.demon.co.uk)
C Speed
>My goodness, Claire, do you read and contribute to *every* group in the uk
>hierarchy?
>:-}>
Umm, nearly *&)
David Looser
wrote:
> The only thing that CCBN really can do is to be more vocal in promoting
>
> genuine naturism. If they continually attack H&E I am sure the
>
> publishers will be delighted with the extra publicity (Re Re has almost
>
> certainly boosted sales in the US already).
>
>
I would like to associate myself with this posting, It sums up my views on
this topic very well and I agree with every word of it.
David
>
Sharon Curtis
>>P.S. I live some 120 miles from the establishment in question so a personal
>>visit will not be easy to arrange even if work / home allows.
>
>120 miles is a long way in the UK? That's only a 2 hour drive, what's the
>problem?
A 10-hour cycle for me, actually.
I haven't a car and don't drive. We don't know if the previous
poster does.
>Maybe it's different over here or something, but our company picnic was held
>about 100 miles from our offices last month.
I think things are (so I'm told) bigger in the US. Here we have everything
closer together.
Sharon
--
http://www.comlab.ox.ac.uk/oucl/users/sharon.curtis/
Sharon Curtis
>and what his convictions had been for, wrote letters, cooperated with several
>private investigators which played some small part in getting his last
>conviction for pimping and pandering of minors. My work partly resulted
>in him getting on the caution list because of those I educated about the
>issue and I have caused him other trouble besides this.
Well if he was doing something wrong (and from the conviction it
certainly sounds like it) then that's great you were able to help.
>be. If there were nude children's beauty pageants only 120 miles --
>I mean GIVE me a break this is a 2 l/2 hour drive,
>when I KNOW many of you guys go hundreds more on a regular
>basis just to get a damn tan
No, you give *us* a break. 120 miles is (funnily enough) not the same
as it is in the UK. We're more crowded, and it takes longer to go
120 miles. There are many people in this country who do not go
hundreds of miles on a regular basis. Heavens, the country isn't that
wide. Me, I'm a student. I haven't a car, I can't drive, and I
think it unreasonable of you to expect me to cycle 10 hours in
order to do something just because rere says so. All the accusations
I've seen, they've all been because rere says so. If you want to
get people to take you seriously, stop flinging around accusations
and produce some proof or references or something.
> -- I'd be there finding out a little bit
>more about what was going on. As far as what you do with our naturist
>clubs in England that is your responsibility,
Ah. Good. Thank you. Goodbye.
> but first thing I would
>advise you to do is change your attitude and know that you need to make
>that drive and do the necessary research to find out what is going on at
>that camp
Hang on, you haven't done any research about what is going on, you
don't know, you're just flinging accusations around, and you say we
*need* (ha! someone who can't doesn't *need*) to go and check something
out just because you say so? No, you do the research if you're so
concerned about it.
I'm as concerned that children shouldn't be exploited pornographically
as you are, but honestly, I'm not in a position to do anything!
It's about as sensible as us complaining about something in America
and we *demand* that you go and do something about it!
>here, but first you'll have to take the first step and that is taking
>responsibility for the scum in your movement
Our *movement*? I don't belong to any movement. I'm here in
uk.rec.naturist and it is a newsgroup. Not some big movement.
If you want to attack British naturism, then go and attack someone
directly, why don't you write some letters or something?
>want them OUT. First you have to admit you have a problem instead of
>sticking your heads in that beach sand. Then of course you will have to
>decide to go after them with the energy with which you go after me. :-)
Oh ha ha. I hate it when people say "you have to admit you have a
problem". You say you don't have a problem, and they think it's just
confirmation.
Look *I* don't have a problem. Maybe whatever naturist club you're going
on about does.
Now tell me why you think *I* should do something about this, and then
apply the same argument as to why I should go and solve the murder
of a young woman at Ascott-under-Wychwood a few weeks ago.
Sharon
--
http://www.comlab.ox.ac.uk/oucl/users/sharon.curtis/
Sharon Curtis
>It sounds wonderful. Oh mighty will you please send me a copy? I sure
>would appreciate it. I'll write up a review for uk.rec.naturst and
>rec.nude. :-)
No thank you, we're interested in naturism, not pornography
masquerading as naturism.
I'm surprised at you Rere! I thought you were against pornography!!
Maybe that's why you post so much about it.
Sharon
--
http://www.comlab.ox.ac.uk/oucl/users/sharon.curtis/
chee...@netaxs.com
> : with lines like "If you like me in this video, you can see more of me
>in...."
>lemme guess ....... Health and Efficiency. Did I get it right, oh mighty
>cheefdan.
Well, actually in other videos by the same guy. (from H&E, I think)
>: Sorry, but that just ain't naturism to me...
>
>It sounds wonderful. Oh mighty will you please send me a copy? I sure
>would appreciate it. I'll write up a review for uk.rec.naturst and
>rec.nude. :-)
Try to contain your enthusiasm, Nikki.
You can write the review without seeing it.
Just take all the criticisms of H&E you published in CwS and replace the word
"magazine" with the word "video".
rere
: re...@netcom.com (rere) wrote:
: >and what his convictions had been for, wrote letters, cooperated with several
: >private investigators which played some small part in getting his last
: >conviction for pimping and pandering of minors. My work partly resulted
: >in him getting on the caution list because of those I educated about the
: >issue and I have caused him other trouble besides this.
: Well if he was doing something wrong (and from the conviction it
: certainly sounds like it) then that's great you were able to help.
Thanks. I appreciate that from you, Sharon.
: >be. If there were nude children's beauty pageants only 120 miles --
: >I mean GIVE me a break this is a 2 l/2 hour drive,
: >when I KNOW many of you guys go hundreds more on a regular
: >basis just to get a damn tan
: No, you give *us* a break. 120 miles is (funnily enough) not the same
: as it is in the UK. We're more crowded, and it takes longer to go
: 120 miles. There are many people in this country who do not go
: hundreds of miles on a regular basis. Heavens, the country isn't that
: wide. Me, I'm a student. I haven't a car, I can't drive, and I
: think it unreasonable of you to expect me to cycle 10 hours in
: order to do something just because rere says so. All the accusations
: I've seen, they've all been because rere says so. If you want to
: get people to take you seriously, stop flinging around accusations
: and produce some proof or references or something.
Notice how many times you hear one person or another talking about
flitting around the world going to one nude beach or another. You may not
have the ability or the inclination to get there, but perhaps someone
might look up and say, HEY I DON'T WANT NATURIST CHILDREN PHOTOGRAPHED BY
PEDOPHILES WHEN THEY ARE BEING PARADED AT MY LOCAL NUDIST CAMP. And then
someone might do something about it. They might take the trouble to go
there, or write the letter that closes down the pageants.
: > -- I'd be there finding out a little bit
: >more about what was going on. As far as what you do with our naturist
: >clubs in England that is your responsibility,
: Ah. Good. Thank you. Goodbye.
: > but first thing I would
: >advise you to do is change your attitude and know that you need to make
: >that drive and do the necessary research to find out what is going on at
: >that camp
: Hang on, you haven't done any research about what is going on, you
: don't know, you're just flinging accusations around, and you say we
: *need* (ha! someone who can't doesn't *need*) to go and check something
: out just because you say so? No, you do the research if you're so
: concerned about it.
: I'm as concerned that children shouldn't be exploited pornographically
: as you are, but honestly, I'm not in a position to do anything!
: It's about as sensible as us complaining about something in America
: and we *demand* that you go and do something about it!
: >here, but first you'll have to take the first step and that is taking
: >responsibility for the scum in your movement
: Our *movement*? I don't belong to any movement. I'm here in
: uk.rec.naturist and it is a newsgroup. Not some big movement.
: If you want to attack British naturism, then go and attack someone
: directly, why don't you write some letters or something?
I've written lots of letter and have gotten some published. I have
written to H & E since about 1985.
: >want them OUT. First you have to admit you have a problem instead of
: >sticking your heads in that beach sand. Then of course you will have to
: >decide to go after them with the energy with which you go after me. :-)
: Oh ha ha. I hate it when people say "you have to admit you have a
: problem". You say you don't have a problem, and they think it's just
: confirmation.
: Look *I* don't have a problem. Maybe whatever naturist club you're going
: on about does.
I mean the movement/lifestyle, or whatever you want to call it, has a
problem. It's a collective recognition and it is surely from the 12
step circles.
: Now tell me why you think *I* should do something about this, and then
: apply the same argument as to why I should go and solve the murder
: of a young woman at Ascott-under-Wychwood a few weeks ago.
Well Sharon you might not have a responsibility to solve the murder, but
as a society you might want to start evaluating what caused it before
the violence escalates in your society as it has in ours and then it will
be too late. But while the murder of the woman at Ascott-under-Wychwood
is off topic on these nudist/naturist newsgroups it is not off topic to
evaluate issues regarding photography of nudist children and women by
pornographers and naturist porn magazines like H & E and naturist perverts
from Malaysia.
--
*****************PGP 2.6.2.*****************
Public Key fm pgp-pub...@pgp.ai.mit.edu
**********Subj: GET re...@netcom.com*********
****************************************************
rere
5.bt-sys.bt.co.uk>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
Distribution: world
David Looser (dlo...@bt-sys.bt.co.uk) wrote:
: In article <426sv6$j...@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com>, bur...@movies.enet.dec.com ()
: wrote:
: > The only thing that CCBN really can do is to be more vocal in promoting
: >
: > genuine naturism. If they continually attack H&E I am sure the
: >
: > publishers will be delighted with the extra publicity (Re Re has almost
: >
: > certainly boosted sales in the US already).
: >
: >
: I would like to associate myself with this posting, It sums up my views on
: this topic very well and I agree with every word of it.
By this logic everyone who protests anything has to shut up. It don't
work that way. That's a cop out by the apathetic and cynical and no way
to bring about political change--EVER. You may buy it, but I don't. :-)
P.S. Did you subscribe, David?-)
Stephen Doerr
thought I would repost the original article, which was more appropriate
for this group anyway. (Sorry, I didn't know urn existed until a couple
of days ago!)
As a member of Eureka, I probably ought to respond to some of the
comments about the club that have been made, but I'll leave that for
another article.
*************************************************************************
I spent yesterday (28 August, a bank holiday here in the UK) at the
Eureka club in Kent (county), England. The club's premises were
borrowed for the day by Health & Efficiency (a UK naturist
publication), who had declared that day to be Naturist Day. The day's
events started with a nude aerobics workout on the stage given by a
guy and two women, who then invited members of the audience up on
stage to have a go. (They managed to get quite a few men up there but
the women were too shy to join in, with one or two exceptions.)
A little later, there was a slide-show and photographic workshop by
Charlie Simmonds, who is well known in UK naturist circles for his
H&E naturist videos. I didn't attend (Eureka's table-tennis room was
packed to the gunwales for the slide-show) but peering through the
window it appeared to be an intelligent and useful guide for amateur
photographers to improve their techniques. Charlie had a couple of]
models with him, who posed by the pool after the slide-show while
Charlie continued giving tips to the budding photographers there that
day. (I was rather pleased to see that he got the photographers to
wade into the icy pool while the models posed on the edge: so often
it's the other way round at the photo shoots which are regularly held
at Eureka.)
There was a massage workshop led by David Martin, a naturist
publisher and organizer of naturist events and also (rather
controversially) of liberated parties for adults. There was nothing
sexual about the massage workshop, however (fortunately, as the
people attending were 95% men).
Three H&E awards were announced to people who had made an outstanding
contribution to UK naturism: Sue Piper (not present), Gerry Ryland
(not present), and Mark Wilson (owner of Eureka and present).
An H&E bookstall operated throughout the day, selling books, videos,
T-shirts, etc., and there was a bouncy castle for the children, who
also competed in some games and were awarded prizes. During the
afternoon, a barbecue operated, and at 6.30 p.m. an early disco was
held, followed at 8.30 by a karaoke evening.
The weather could have been better (the UK's heatwave has now come to
an end), but the sun did make an appearance from time to time and
everyone seemed to enjoy the day's events.
The next event at Eureka is 'It's a Knockout' (try asking on
soc.culture.british if you want to know what that it), next Sunday,
3 September. As always, visitors are welcome: a day-visit costs
GBP 8.00 for men, nothing at all for women and children, and the
sauna will be running at GBP 1.00 a head.
=====================================================
Stephen Doerr (Doerr Computer Services Ltd)
dc...@dircon.co.uk
also: gbam...@ibmmail.com
SDOERR - BROC (American Express internal)
=====================================================
bur...@movies.enet.dec.com
|> By this logic everyone who protests anything has to shut up. It don't
|> work that way. That's a cop out by the apathetic and cynical and no way
|> to bring about political change--EVER. You may buy it, but I don't. :-)
|>
That's Re Re's deduction, but it's not a logical one.
Every successful campaigner knows that there is a time to speak and a
time to remain silent, and knows the difference between them. And every
pornographer knows that there is no such thing as bad publicity.
Richard
gymno...@wiseword.demon.co.uk
rere
: In article <427dcf$r...@news.ox.ac.uk>, sha...@ecs.ox.ac.uk (Sharon Curtis)
: wrote:
: >re...@netcom.com (rere) wrote:
: >>It sounds wonderful. Oh mighty will you please send me a copy? I sure
: >>would appreciate it. I'll write up a review for uk.rec.naturst and
: >>rec.nude. :-)
: >
: >No thank you, we're interested in naturism, not pornography
: >masquerading as naturism.
: >
: >I'm surprised at you Rere! I thought you were against pornography!!
: >Maybe that's why you post so much about it.
: >
: >
: And the thing is, rere has previously talked right here in River City (er, I mean, in rec.nude) about her collection of pornography, which she has apparently had spread out on her bed at one time or another. 8-)
: hehehehe (now Peterd and Terry have me doing it!)
: --
: Larry Hatmaker
: <larr...@oregon.uoregon.edu>
: Center for Electronic Studying
Hatmaker has no qualms about misrepresentation. I was in Florida --at
Paradise Lakes-- and we were in Lee Baxandall's time share down there and
I was sorting thru my research materials for meetings that we were having
with people down there to educate them about H & E and other naturist
pedophile materials that I had brought from my files in Oshkosh. Many of
the magazines that were on the bed were from Lee Baxandall's files at The
Naturist Society. The time share only had one room where I could work and
the bed was the only where I could conveniently sort through the
magazines and do the work I needed to do.
I am an anti-pornography activist and have been for twenty years. I know
what I'm talking about and yes I do have the magazines. Before I protest
a movie I go see it. Before I launch a protest against any publication I
find out what I am talking about. Do I get off on them? Not only do I NOT
get off on them, but they make me furious enough to work against them for
many years. You know that tho, and you don't care about responsible
presentation of the facts here tho. This is part of the unethical attack
I got when I first got onto this group that made me fight back in kind.
I am cross posting this because it is an unethical attack on me in
response to a uk poster and I want her and others to be aware of my reply
to this completely unethical accusation.
bur...@movies.enet.dec.com
In article <mike.696...@cais.com>, mi...@cais.com (Michael D.
Bartman) writes:
|> 120 miles is a long way in the UK? That's only a 2 hour drive, what's the
|> problem?
|>
[etc]
Just an idle Sunday musing, completely off-topic:
["Old" man reminiscence mode on] I seem to remember
reading, some years back, that despite the size of their country most
USAmericans have never travelled more than a few hundred miles from
their home towns.
We Europeans seem to be great travellers, on the other hand, especially
the Germans (in my experience). Now I could tell you some stories about
long journeys... ["Old" man reminiscence mode off]
Mark Rigby-Jones
>: >I'm surprised at you Rere! I thought you were against pornography!!
>: >Maybe that's why you post so much about it.
>: And the thing is, rere has previously talked right here in River City
>: (er, I mean, in rec.nude) about her collection of pornography, which she
>: has apparently had spread out on her bed at one time or another. 8-)
>I am cross posting this because it is an unethical attack on me in
>response to a uk poster and I want her and others to be aware of my reply
>to this completely unethical accusation.
Um, did anybody ever tell you that this: 8-) is a smiley. It means that
the comment preceeding it is *not* to be taken seriously. And whilst you
might be justified in posting a reply to the group in which the 'attack'
took place, cross-posting your reply to another group is hardly 'ethical'
itself, more like blatant self-publicity.
Followups set back to just uk.rec.naturist
mrj
--
---- Mark Rigby-Jones
------ SnailMail:Keble College, Oxford, OX1 3PG, UK
-------- mailto:mark.rig...@ox.ac.uk
---------- http://info.ox.ac.uk/~kebl0206/
rere
: In article <rereDEA...@netcom.com>, rere <re...@netcom.com> wrote:
: >: >I'm surprised at you Rere! I thought you were against pornography!!
: >: >Maybe that's why you post so much about it.
: >: And the thing is, rere has previously talked right here in River City
: >: (er, I mean, in rec.nude) about her collection of pornography, which she
: >: has apparently had spread out on her bed at one time or another. 8-)
Stuff edited about me being an anti-pornography activist and researcher
for the last 20 years and how we were at Paradise Lakes having meetings
and that is why the porn was taken to Florida. (see previous post for
additional information, or heck ask me and if it'll make me more famous
I'll post it again. Hehehe.)
: >I am cross posting this because it is an unethical attack on me in
: >response to a uk poster and I want her and others to be aware of my reply
: >to this completely unethical accusation.
: Um, did anybody ever tell you that this: 8-) is a smiley. It means that
: the comment preceeding it is *not* to be taken seriously.
Ohhhhh, I didn't realize Hatmaker was only making a stupid joke here. I
doubt he did either. 8-)
And whilst you
: might be justified in posting a reply to the group in which the 'attack'
: took place, cross-posting your reply to another group is hardly 'ethical'
: itself, more like blatant self-publicity.
: Followups set back to just uk.rec.naturist
Why not ask the fellow if he meant it as a joke? :-) Sorry, but you are
unaware of the history here and because of that you have seriously
misunderstood. It's hard for me to add every detail to every post. 8-)
(Now do you think just because I added that smiley that the statement
is not true?) First the Paradise Lakes club management -- probably Fred
Bishoff in disguise -- and then rec.nuders once they got the story second
hand have been making that as a serious accusation for a long time. It's
obviously absurd, but they don't care much about whether an accusation
against me is absurd. They like to discredit me in anyway they can with
lies, misrepresentations, whatever. The 8 is bug eyes at the porn. The
smile is ironic at what he alleges to be my hypocrisy. Ohhh how a
joke fails when it has to be explained, eh? Self-publicity? Yeah
I just **live** for being famous with you people on these two newsgroups!
8-) God, life in the public arena is soooooo rough. smirk. The attack
initiated in rec.nude in the first place. Crossposted back there for that
reason once more and for as long as this conversation continues.
Michael Voight (Contractor)
: >P.S. I live some 120 miles from the establishment in question so a personal
: >visit will not be easy to arrange even if work / home allows.
: 120 miles is a long way in the UK? That's only a 2 hour drive, what's the
: problem?
Yes, not far in hour, but gas isn't $1 per gallon (US) there either.