URGENT - LATEST NEWS RE: MORFA DYFFRYN
Jon (N Wales)
down the beach was of the extremely short length of beach proposed for
Naturist use by Cyngor Gwynedd Council, which will come into effect within
the next few days. Signs are due to be up by next weekend, and anyone found
naked outside the designated area will be liable to prosecution.
The general feeling was that the erection of signs is a good idea, but that
the length of beach proposed is far too short, and an outraged "they can't
take away most of our beach from us". The writer of one of the recent
letters to the 'Cambrian News' was handing out leaflets to everyone on the
beach, urging them to write in to the Council to make their feelings known
and I asked for his permission to reproduce it here:
"LEGALISATION - THE GOOD NEWS AND THE BAD
Dear Fellow Naturist - you may have heard that the local authority intend
legalising an area of this beach for naturist use. The proposals are to
start the beach 300 metres to the North of the pill box (further away from
the car parks) and to allow us to use 500 metres of beach. Anyone found
naked outside this area (which will be sign posted) will be liable to
prosecution. You may like to consider the following points:
* we currently use about 1500 metres of beach so 500m is going to be very
crowded
* no more long walks along the waters edge
* the beach to the north of our section will be empty for 1000m
* the environmental impact of 500 people in such a compact area will be
detrimental to the beach and the dunes
* people with walking difficulties will find it even harder to reach
'our' beach
Please send your comments to: The Maritime Officer. Cyngor Gwynedd Council,
Ffordd y Cob, Pwllheli, LL53 5AA. THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT."
The beach was fairly quiet, but even so, about 700 metres of it was in use
by naturists. The most crowded section was the first 300 metres north from
the pill box - I counted 41 groups of people in that section - around 110
people all told. If you use, or have used the naturist beach at Morfa
Dyffryn, please make your feelings known to Gwynedd Council.
Thank you.
Jon.
Callow
<j...@jonric.force-remove-9.co.uk> wrote:
Thanks Jon, the signs should be up by the time we manage to get there
again, if indeed we do this season. Damned weather (and work)!!!
>"LEGALISATION - THE GOOD NEWS AND THE BAD
>Dear Fellow Naturist - you may have heard that the local authority intend
>legalising an area of this beach for naturist use. The proposals are to
>start the beach 300 metres to the North of the pill box (further away from
>the car parks) and to allow us to use 500 metres of beach. Anyone found
>naked outside this area (which will be sign posted) will be liable to
>prosecution. You may like to consider the following points:
>* we currently use about 1500 metres of beach so 500m is going to be very
>crowded
>* no more long walks along the waters edge
>* the beach to the north of our section will be empty for 1000m
>* the environmental impact of 500 people in such a compact area will be
>detrimental to the beach and the dunes
>* people with walking difficulties will find it even harder to reach
>'our' beach
>Please send your comments to: The Maritime Officer. Cyngor Gwynedd Council,
>Ffordd y Cob, Pwllheli, LL53 5AA. THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT."
This is the worst of the several proposals that I heard of earlier
this year. As the first 300 yards after the pill-box is
effectively the main part of the nude area the council are in some way
moving it! Puts our favourite spot out of bounds which pleases me
not at all.
I think about 300 yards moves the beach into the area presently
dominated by the gay nudists and I'd guess that they won't be too
happy either.
Question is how did the council arrive at this figure as reasonable?
I've not heard of any "official" consultation between the Council and
nudists but here is the rumour......
During an earlier part of this summer someone was staying on the Benar
Beach Textile Campsite was claiming to be be a representative of CCBN
and that he was there to "clean up" the nude beach, to rid it of all
the "perverts".. Seems that he impressed the owner of the campsite
David Powell-Jones to some order. David has the ear of local Council
representatives and although being anti-nudist is quite happy to take
their money, even advertising in some naturist orientated places.
Another rumour was that if the beach was made official he would create
a naturist camping area on one of his fields. I know that David
supports the idea of a limited area being designated but it's unlikely
that it is for naturist reasons.
Back to the *alleged* CCBN man... it seems that he spent much of his
time writing letters to the Council, the Police etc claiming that the
beach was full of perverts pretending to be naturists and that the way
to rid the place of them was to designate an area, the exact area that
it seems the Council are going to authorise. I was told that this
man made a considerable impression on Mr Powell-Jones and the LA, BUT
as far as I know he did not consult with any other regular beach
users, he certainly didn't talk with any of the Glyn's FIeld regulars.
The flashing incidents previously reported and not connected with
naturism have co-incidentally backed him up.
I don't know who this man was, he was never there on the few occasions
that we've been there this year.....and I've checked with David
everytime. David only knew him as "Derek", he rarely (if ever) went
to the beach apparently and was not know to any of the the regular
nuddies on the beach.
This story was told to some friends of ours by Mr Powell-Jones and
repeated to me the same day, the same story reached another friend
from Jones about a week later on the occassion of the flasher I
previously reported, so there's certainly smoke if not fire!
The CCBN area members rep, is also a "Derek", I know you lurk - was
this you? If not I wonder who the f*** it was. Perhaps this is a
good time to come and get your choccy biscuit!! :-)
This designation won't actually make too much practical difference to
me, I'm not one for strolling around other than from dunes to sea to
cool off occasionally but I know of many who will not be happy and
will probably ignore the northern boundary. Gonna bloody kill me
dragging all the kit an extra 300 yards though. :-(
Seems my worst fears, that a Studland style naturist ghetto would be
created, have been confirmed. IMO this is a backward step for
naturism....and a big one too. Legally it probably makes not a jot
of difference, this is more a convenience thing for the LA and Police
but not for naturists. *If* CCBN were involved they have, yet
again, poked their nose in where it wasn't wanted or needed, luckily
at Cefn Sidan the LA had more sense. Perhaps they weren't but we
will probably only find out when the crowing starts.
Trouble is if naturists ignore the designated area (as I'm sure many
will - particularly to the north) and the complaints role in
designation can be withdrawn very easily, and we will be left with
sweet FA and battling to establish traditional use again. Reminds me
of somewhere else I think.
Also wonder who the guy putting the leaflet out was, I'd like to get
in touch with him if anyone has a clue.
Letter to Council in the post, not that it will make much
difference....I don't have a vote up there!!
--
Terry
http://home.freeuk.com/callowhill/home/index.htm
http://home.clara.net/callowhill/nat.htm
Spamblock in header
JLE
Callow <callo...@clara.not> wrote in message
news:37bfb21e...@news.clara.net...
> On Sun, 22 Aug 1999 01:48:58 +0100, "Jon (N Wales)"
> <j...@jonric.force-remove-9.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Thanks Jon, the signs should be up by the time we manage to get
there
> again, if indeed we do this season. Damned weather (and work)!!!
>
> >"LEGALISATION - THE GOOD NEWS AND THE BAD
> >Dear Fellow Naturist - you may have heard that the local authority
intend
> >legalising an area of this beach for naturist use. The proposals
are to
> >start the beach 300 metres to the North of the pill box (further
away from
<snip>
<snip>
>
> but not for naturists. *If* CCBN were involved they have, yet
> again, poked their nose in where it wasn't wanted or needed,
<snip>
Yes yet again......Is it time to set up a 'all new
[something][something] for The Real British Nudist/Naturist &
challenge a lot of the outdated views of the CCBN ? I will view with
interest what happens at there AGM, as and when it is reported.
--
_
Please remove the SPAM BLOCKER before replying by e_mail
Thank you. sca...@MAPSONfreeuk.com
Location......... United Kingdom
Kev
>
>Yes yet again......Is it time to set up a 'all new
>[something][something] for The Real British Nudist/Naturist &
>challenge a lot of the outdated views of the CCBN ? I will view with
>interest what happens at there AGM, as and when it is reported.
IF the report by callow is correct - and it WAS a CCBN officer that made
those comments, the guy, closely followed by the CCBN should be hung drawn
and quartered. this is exactly *not* how to go about promoting naturism for
everyone, and acceptance of it in most beaches.
Kev
Mike Hopkins
<j...@jonric.force-remove-9.co.uk> writes concerning the Morfa Dyffryn
>"LEGALISATION - THE GOOD NEWS AND THE BAD
tried to bring public nuisance prosecutions against some who were naked
on Berrow Sands. The CPS declined to press the charges. At the same
time, Sedgebarrow District Council were unable to gain Home Office
approval for an anti-nudity bye-law. How valid is a comparison with
Welsh Law?
Let us assume that Cyngor Gwynedd Council have their way and a couple
are naked outside the designated area but, in every other respect, are
following the CCBN Nude Tolerance guidelines. Anyone with a copy of
BN140 to hand will see that the editor refers to these guidelines when
he writes "A CCBN member clearly behaving in a responsible manner, but
nevertheless charged with a beach nudity offence - and prepared to plead
'Not Guilty' - will be defended with all CCBN's energy and resources".
If, as has been suggested in another posting in this thread, CCBN has
had an involvement in the Council's decision mechanisms, I wonder
whether the right hand and left hand of CCBN know what each other are
doing. (Who is right and who is left, Rex or Derek?).
--
Mike Hopkins - wear a smile if nothing else
(If replying direct, please change "co.xx" to "co.uk")
Julian Webb
<j...@jonric.force-remove-9.co.uk> writes
- a very informative posting, snipped for bandwidth -
Thanks Jon.
This information is something I would like to add to the NUFF web page
for Morfa Dyffryn, perhaps with an 'alert' pointer from the contents
page.
May I quote from your posting, please?
If anyone else has information or comments to make about this news
please let me know, or better still, post it here.
Regards
Julian
NUFF Team
http://w3.to/nuff - the Naturist Uk Fact File
THE on-line source for naturist information in the UK.
E-mail: nat_...@gravis.demon.co.uk
http://www.gravis.demon.co.uk/naturist/index.htm
Callow
Mike Hopkins wrote in message ...
>In article <MSHv3.2523$iE.71840@stones>, Jon (N Wales)
><j...@jonric.force-remove-9.co.uk> writes concerning the Morfa Dyffryn
>>"LEGALISATION - THE GOOD NEWS AND THE BAD
>This raises some interesting questions. In Somerset, the local police
>tried to bring public nuisance prosecutions against some who were naked
>on Berrow Sands. The CPS declined to press the charges. At the same
>time, Sedgebarrow District Council were unable to gain Home Office
>approval for an anti-nudity bye-law. How valid is a comparison with
>Welsh Law?
It's exactly the same as English Law. CPS will have exactly the same
problems as at Berrow or elsewhere. The bad news is that the new boss of
CPS has recently indicated that he will be changing the guidelines that
have been in use for a few years now. Rather than a CPS solicitor
making a judgement on the likelihood of success of a prosecution or what
is or is not in the public interest they could be prosecuting in future
on the basis of whether or not there is a "prima facia" case. This is
a fundamental change of tack and could effect the situation that has
existed at Berrow in that they might decide to give a case a "run" to
test the Court's opinion.
>Let us assume that Cyngor Gwynedd Council have their way and a couple
>are naked outside the designated area but, in every other respect, are
>following the CCBN Nude Tolerance guidelines. Anyone with a copy of
>BN140 to hand will see that the editor refers to these guidelines when
>he writes "A CCBN member clearly behaving in a responsible manner, but
>nevertheless charged with a beach nudity offence - and prepared to
plead
>'Not Guilty' - will be defended with all CCBN's energy and resources".
The problem is the word "reasonable". Is it reasonable to leave a
designated area for a non-designated one. I've no doubt that CCBN
would say not.
Personally I think that CCBN (and others) are making a serious
misjudgment about the public's attitude to nude beaches. My view is
that they don't mind them - as long as we stick to them. Stray away
from them and they'll complain longly and loudly. Those guidelines
*could* be responsible for the increase in the numbers of complaints at
Dyffryn this year. If Joe Public sees a nude man away from a nude area
then he's a 'flasher' regardless of what *he* might think he's
doing.....and they'll complain, when enough complain we'll see the
results.
>If, as has been suggested in another posting in this thread, CCBN has
>had an involvement in the Council's decision mechanisms, I wonder
>whether the right hand and left hand of CCBN know what each other are
>doing. (Who is right and who is left, Rex or Derek?).
That had crossed my mind. Regardless of whether or not Derek was
involved what is the reaction of CCBN going to be anyway. I think they
will claim this as a victory for naturism, pride themselves on this
being the first "official" beach in Wales and try to claim the credit
either way. They'll try to persuade those of us who think it is a
disaster that it's the best thing since sliced bread. They will
conveniently ignore the fact that most beach users are going to be well
pissed off and do absolutely nothing to try to redress the balance.
That's what I *think* they will do, anybody disagree??? Memories of
Studland again!!
I hope I'm wrong, we shall see no doubt.
Suzanne Piper
>"LEGALISATION - THE GOOD NEWS AND THE BAD
>legalising an area of this beach for naturist use. The proposals are to
>start the beach 300 metres to the North of the pill box (further away from
>naked outside this area (which will be sign posted) will be liable to
>prosecution.
people - it may be worth finding out if an actual bye-law has been
passed AND sanctioned by the Home Office. If not the legal situation
IMHO should remain as previously. It may be that the reason they are
making this area official is that they have managed to get a bye law
passed - but the Home Office only allowed it as long as one area was
excluded. (Corton did this several years ago and this was the means
allowed by the Home Office to 'control' naturism.)
>* we currently use about 1500 metres of beach so 500m is going to be very
>crowded
>* no more long walks along the waters edge
>* the beach to the north of our section will be empty for 1000m
>* the environmental impact of 500 people in such a compact area will be
>detrimental to the beach and the dunes
>* people with walking difficulties will find it even harder to reach
>'our' beach
>Please send your comments to: The Maritime Officer. Cyngor Gwynedd Council,
>Ffordd y Cob, Pwllheli, LL53 5AA. THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT."
>
especially if you can persuade the locals (ratepayers/voters) to do so.
It is also worth while pointing out that you pay for camping, b&b,
meals, buy papers etc and contribute to the local economy. Money does
count.
>The beach was fairly quiet, but even so, about 700 metres of it was in use
>by naturists. The most crowded section was the first 300 metres north from
>the pill box - I counted 41 groups of people in that section - around 110
>people all told. If you use, or have used the naturist beach at Morfa
>Dyffryn, please make your feelings known to Gwynedd Council.
>
>Thank you.
>
>Jon.
>
>
>
>
--
Suzanne Piper
msouthg
>Signs are due to be up by next weekend, and anyone found
Do you have any information as to the status of the dunes?
[snip]
--
Driftwood
ICQ 39906575
Jon (N Wales)
Julian Webb wrote in message ...
>May I quote from your posting, please?
Yes - please do.
Jon.
Jon (N Wales)
>Do you have any information as to the status of the dunes?
No, sorry, I don't know how far into the dunes the boundary will go.
Jon.
msouthg
<callo...@clara.not> writes
[snip]
>Letter to Council in the post, not that it will make much
>difference....I don't have a vote up there!!
I'm considering a letter to the council, but want to think it through
first.
Is there any merit, given other, past threads, in asking the council for
what offence people would be prosecuted?
I was at St. Osyth beach yesterday and life seems a lot simpler when the
beach is privately owned, albeit that use is subject to the whim of the
owners or the commercial pressures they may face.
--
Driftwood
ICQ 39906575
Steve Doerr
<lNEFXMA+...@naturisme.demon.co.uk>...
> I wonder just what specific law they are going to use to prosecute
> people - it may be worth finding out if an actual bye-law has been
> passed AND sanctioned by the Home Office.
Just a thought: as the beach is in Wales, might it not be the Welsh Office
rather than the Home Office who has to approve by-laws? In which case,
their policy might be completely different. It might even be a matter for
the new Welsh assembly to deliberate upon.
Does anyone know?
Steve
Suzanne Piper
<dc...@dircon.co.uk> writes
only Scotland that has the seperate legal system at the moment.
--
Suzanne Piper
Julian Webb
<suep...@naturisme.demon.co.uk> writes
>I wonder just what specific law they are going to use to prosecute
>people - it may be worth finding out if an actual bye-law has been
>passed AND sanctioned by the Home Office.
Unfortunately, if the Fraisthorpe situation is duplicated at Morfa
Dyffryn, they may not need bylaws or the criminal law to forbid
naturists from using the beach [or part of it].
As I understand it, East Riding of Yorkshire Council have said, in
effect, "the beaches here belong to the Council and we forbid people
without clothes from using them" - refusal to abide by this diktat
would, however be a *civil offence* and not a matter for the police.
For various reasons, this assertion by EROYC has not been subjected to
legal scrutiny in a court case - AFAIK.
Tim Forcer
>
> ... here is the rumour. ...
>
> During an earlier part of this summer someone was staying on
> the Benar Beach Textile Campsite was claiming to be be a
> representative of CCBN and that he was there to "clean up"
1. Callow's post was datestamped almost 48 hours ago, but there's still
no response from any CCBN officer. (Mike Berridge is a regular here,
and many other CCBN officers read the group, so the rumour must have
reached their eyes and ears by now.)
2. If the designated area results from discussions led by some CCBN
"representative", then it shows CCBN *CAN* conduct negotiations with
local authorities and get things done. But this doesn't look like a
triumph for their influence, more a disaster.
3. If CCBN have indeed played a large role in cutting down naturist use
of a beach, AND making access to the naturist area more difficult, then
I sincerely hope the AGM agenda can reach "Any Other Business" so that
this matter can be debated there. Failure to consult beach users being
just one of the aspects of concern. (CCBN's objects require them to
work for all naturists, not just members.)
4. If (as seems to be the case) it is clear that naturist use of a much
larger area of beach has been the norm for a substantial number of
years, under what legislation could naturists be prosecuted for being
nude outside the signed area? In particular, if you don't walk far
enough to find the marker for the new boundary, you won't know that it's
there, will you?
Why do these things always happen at the end of the summer? If it had
been in spring, then there would have been a good opportunity to
organise a mass strip in the 300m "lost" at the access end, and/or to
have a mass nude parade (or cavort or prance) up and down the complete
1500m used currently.
I don't know Morfa, but I'd do my best to get along to any such protest.
--
Tim Forcer t...@ecs.soton.ac.uk
The University of Southampton, UK
The University is not responsible for my opinions
Mike Hopkins
<t...@ecs.soton.ac.uk.nojunk> writes
[snip]
I really am getting fed up with your postings Tim. You always manage to
say what I wish that I had said. Worse still it is often better than I
could have said it ;-)
>
>Why do these things always happen at the end of the summer? If it had
>been in spring, then there would have been a good opportunity to
>organise a mass strip in the 300m "lost" at the access end, and/or to
>have a mass nude parade (or cavort or prance) up and down the complete
>1500m used currently.
>
>I don't know Morfa, but I'd do my best to get along to any such protest.
>
(and those are only the ones that she has remembered to tell me about).
Nevertheless, if someone names a date I will try to get there.
Suzanne Piper
<t...@ecs.soton.ac.uk.nojunk> writes
>
>no response from any CCBN officer. (Mike Berridge is a regular here,
>and many other CCBN officers read the group, so the rumour must have
>reached their eyes and ears by now.)
>
MD to BN office, Dereck Brixey and the research and liaison officer so
bn should be quite aware of the debate
--
Suzanne Piper
Kev
Thank you for doing that Suzanne, we await the outcome with *much* interest.
As Tim says it seems the result of this was 6-0 against the CCBN.
Kev
Jilli
<ju...@gravis.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>If anyone else has information or comments to make about this news
>please let me know, or better still, post it here.
Can someone please confirm which person/which department is the
relevant one to write to at Gwynedd Council?
This is the address I have:
Cyngor Gwynedd Council
Council Offices
Caernarfon
Gwynedd
LL55 1SH
Phone : (01286) 672255
Fax : (01286) 673993
E-Mail : enqu...@gwynedd.gov.uk
I've checked out their (bi-lingual) online presence....
http://www.cyngor-gwynedd.gov.uk/index.english.htm and
http://www.cyngor-gwynedd.gov.uk/index.cymraeg.htm
They are making a good effort at keeping people informed, but only on
an historical basis, the most recent Committee Minutes being those of
the April and May meetings. I can find no list of forthcoming
meetings... which says a lot :-(
It seems that the person in charge of producing the Minutes is:
Eleri Parry
(01286) 679601
eleriw...@gwynedd.gov.uk
So if you feel like finding out what was discussed/decided, you know
what to do :-) (1)
From earlier Committee Minutes available, it would seem most likely
that this issue would have been dealt with by the Culture and Leisure
Committee... can someone confirm that please? Previous Minutes give
details of the Councillors and Officers present at each committee
meeting... it might be worth noting individual names if you are
considering writing a letter or ten? <==== hint :-)
But yet again... this looks like a *done deal* with more than a little
bit of help and encouragement from someone with his own agenda,
ostensibly representing the views of CCBN members :-( (I'd like to
see his mandate for this latest restriction of naturist facilities!)
But no-one said it has to stop here though, did they?
I'm personally in one heck of a dilemna... (I'm currently ignoring the
option of joining CCBN and trying to change things with my vote, at
least until I see the outcome of the possible chance of a bit more
democracy and accountability within said organisation). Do I abide by
the new rules and write lots of letters, ..or. what seems a much
better idea, just go to Morfa Dyffryn this weekend, get my kit off on
that part of the beach where, last month, I was naked but now my
nudity is forbidden... and see what happens?? The weather forecast is
looking good and I'm favouring the latter option :-) Being naked
within the area no longer accepted as being for naturist use, whilst
writing letters to Councillors and officials, sounds like a positive
use of a Bank Holiday weekend :-)
Are the restrictive signs up yet? Isn't there something about
*established use*, or does that only apply to planning permission?
Are the restrictions already in place or do they need approval from a
*higher authority*?? Is there a lawyer in the house??
love
Jilli
... trying very hard not to do a Vinnie but oh so angry about this
restriction of the use of my favourite UK naturist beach :-(
(1) just a gentle reminder: Contact the Council at the address above
and find out in detail what has already been decided. Request a copy
of the Minutes of the meeting at which this decision was taken.
Request a copy of future Committee agendas where it is likely to be
discussed again. Write to every member of that committee and make
your views known. Ask for the name and address of the local
Councillor whose constituency includes Morfa Dyffryn. Write to
him/her. Please??
Jilli
<suep...@naturisme.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>much good stuff snipped - I have passed on the information relating to
>MD to BN office, Dereck Brixey and the research and liaison officer so
>bn should be quite aware of the debate
Thanks for doing that, Suzanne :-)
Now there can be no *excuse* of "This is the first we've heard about
it..." when its raised at the AGM.
love
Jilli... currently deafened by the silence of any *official* comeback
in this forum
ps: thanks for the brochures! It's scary to realise just how close
we are to the end of the summer :-(
Jilli
wrote:
sorry... my PS didn't get included :-(
PS: Just think.... if one person claiming to wear a CCBN hat (sorry
to those who DO belong to it, but you're not exactly a famous
organisation) could apparently wield so much influence on the
decision-making process.... imagine how much more effective the
combined voices of so many more people could be? Do your bit for
naturism in the UK... write to the Council and let your views be
heard :-)
Thanks in advance for doing your bit :-)
Jon (N Wales)
Jilli wrote in message <37c30e6f....@news.freeuk.com>...
>Can someone please confirm which person/which department is the
>relevant one to write to at Gwynedd Council?
The leaflet being circulated by Chris from Wrexham on the beach last
Saturday said:
"Please send your comments to: The Maritime Officer. Cyngor Gwynedd Council,
Ffordd y Cob, Pwllheli, LL53 5AA. "
I have subsequently discovered from Chris that the name of the Maritime
Officer is Barry Davies. My 'phone book lists the number of the Maritime
Officer at Pwllheli as 01758 704081. Although Chris is not on e-mail, I
printed out all the relevant postings on u.r.n. as of last night and sent
them to him by post. He has also kept Pat Thompson of CCBN informed of his
dealings with Gwynedd.
>I've checked out their (bi-lingual) online presence....
>http://www.cyngor-gwynedd.gov.uk/index.english.htm and
>http://www.cyngor-gwynedd.gov.uk/index.cymraeg.htm
>
>They are making a good effort at keeping people informed, but only on
>an historical basis, the most recent Committee Minutes being those of
>the April and May meetings. I can find no list of forthcoming
>meetings... which says a lot :-(
>
>It seems that the person in charge of producing the Minutes is:
>Eleri Parry
>(01286) 679601
>eleriw...@gwynedd.gov.uk
>
>So if you feel like finding out what was discussed/decided, you know
>what to do :-) (1)
[snip]
>I'm personally in one heck of a dilemna... (I'm currently ignoring the
>option of joining CCBN and trying to change things with my vote, at
>least until I see the outcome of the possible chance of a bit more
>democracy and accountability within said organisation).
I have to say that as both a new naturist and a new CCBN member this year,
I'm ever so slightly stunned at the response to my posting this information
on Sunday! Interesting, to say the least!
> Do I abide by
>the new rules and write lots of letters, ..or. what seems a much
>better idea, just go to Morfa Dyffryn this weekend, get my kit off on
>that part of the beach where, last month, I was naked but now my
>nudity is forbidden... and see what happens?? The weather forecast is
>looking good and I'm favouring the latter option :-) Being naked
>within the area no longer accepted as being for naturist use, whilst
>writing letters to Councillors and officials, sounds like a positive
>use of a Bank Holiday weekend :-)
Good idea! I'll be there if the sun is shining. Will you bring the choccy
biccies?
>Are the restrictive signs up yet?
They weren't last Saturday but apparently will be by the weekend.
>love
>Jilli
>... trying very hard not to do a Vinnie but oh so angry about this
>restriction of the use of my favourite UK naturist beach :-(
>(1) just a gentle reminder: Contact the Council at the address above
>and find out in detail what has already been decided. Request a copy
>of the Minutes of the meeting at which this decision was taken.
>Request a copy of future Committee agendas where it is likely to be
>discussed again. Write to every member of that committee and make
>your views known. Ask for the name and address of the local
>Councillor whose constituency includes Morfa Dyffryn. Write to
>him/her. Please??
The Gwynedd Council website lists the local councillor for Dyffryn Ardudwy
as:
Emyr Pugh (Independent)
Llwyn
TALYBONT
Gwynedd
LL43 2AA
Tel: 01341 247258
Best wishes
Jon.
Kev
>It's scary to realise just how close
>we are to the end of the summer :-(
No it isn't, I've just written the bulk of the September's newsletter
outlining Octobers astronomy !
Kev
"Here goes the Sun.. do do do do, here goes the Sun, an I said, its not all
right...."
Jilli
<j...@jonric.force-remove-9.co.uk> wrote:
>
>Jilli wrote in message <37c30e6f....@news.freeuk.com>...
>>Can someone please confirm which person/which department is the
>>relevant one to write to at Gwynedd Council?
>The leaflet being circulated by Chris from Wrexham on the beach last
>Saturday said:
>
>"Please send your comments to: The Maritime Officer. Cyngor Gwynedd Council,
>Ffordd y Cob, Pwllheli, LL53 5AA. "
>
>I have subsequently discovered from Chris that the name of the Maritime
>Officer is Barry Davies. My 'phone book lists the number of the Maritime
>Officer at Pwllheli as 01758 704081. Although Chris is not on e-mail, I
>printed out all the relevant postings on u.r.n. as of last night and sent
>them to him by post. He has also kept Pat Thompson of CCBN informed of his
>dealings with Gwynedd.
Thanks for the info Jon, and for taking the trouble to pass on the
reactions from people here. I feel a phone call or two coming on
tomorrow morning... it really would be good to find out just which
Committee is covering this, and who are the officers serving whichever
Committee it turns out to be.
I'm wondering who Pat Thompson of CCBN is though.... local rep?
>I have to say that as both a new naturist and a new CCBN member this year,
>I'm ever so slightly stunned at the response to my posting this information
>on Sunday! Interesting, to say the least!
You are even slightly stunned? Care to explain more? You think we
don't care about our naturist beaches?? This isn't just a talk-fest,
regardless of what you may have heard :-)
>> Being naked
>>within the area no longer accepted as being for naturist use, whilst
>>writing letters to Councillors and officials, sounds like a positive
>>use of a Bank Holiday weekend :-)
>Good idea! I'll be there if the sun is shining. Will you bring the choccy
>biccies?
But of course :-)
>>Are the restrictive signs up yet?
>
>They weren't last Saturday but apparently will be by the weekend.
Definitely feeling a few phone-calls coming on to confirm that info:-)
I'm constantly amazed that it can take a Local Authority months...
even years... to rectify a problem such as a hole in the road, a
leaking school roof, lack of basic facilities within the library, the
list goes on, and yet they can move so damn quick on other matters.
If I can beg/borrow/steal (shh! don't tell!) a tent for the weekend...
I'll be there... Glynn's field... and sitting naked at the base of the
*Keep your clothes on* sign beside the pill-box, waiting patiently for
a policeman :-)
>The Gwynedd Council website lists the local councillor for Dyffryn Ardudwy
>as:
>Emyr Pugh (Independent)
>Llwyn
>TALYBONT
>Gwynedd
>LL43 2AA
>Tel: 01341 247258
Thanks Jon. Now, please, all you naked people.... get writing, get
phoning. Let your views be heard directly.... straight from you to
the decision makers.
love
Jilli
Jon (N Wales)
Jilli wrote in message <37c357e5....@news.freeuk.com>...
>I'm wondering who Pat Thompson of CCBN is though.... local rep?
She's the Area Representative for Shropshire, Merseyside, North Wales and
the Isle of Man. She's also the CCBN Vice President. I spoke to her on
another matter a few weeks ago and found her very helpful.
>>I have to say that as both a new naturist and a new CCBN member this year,
>>I'm ever so slightly stunned at the response to my posting this
information
>>on Sunday! Interesting, to say the least!
>
>You are even slightly stunned? Care to explain more? You think we
>don't care about our naturist beaches?? This isn't just a talk-fest,
>regardless of what you may have heard :-)
No, I've been an enthusiastic lurker and poster to the ng for around twelve
months so I'm aware of the issues that have come up regarding various
beaches, and the reactions to those postings. As I posted the first message
in this thread, perhaps "delighted and pleased" is a better description than
"stunned"! (And having re-read the above, perhaps "enthusiastic lurker"
conjures up the wrong image!!)
>>Good idea! I'll be there if the sun is shining. Will you bring the choccy
>>biccies?
>
>But of course :-)
>If I can beg/borrow/steal (shh! don't tell!) a tent for the weekend...
>I'll be there... Glynn's field... and sitting naked at the base of the
>*Keep your clothes on* sign beside the pill-box, waiting patiently for
>a policeman :-)
OK, so he ignores the fact that you've got no clothes on - "Good morning
Madam, I'm investigating the theft of a tent!"
I'll be the one in a burgundy baseball cap and no tent!
>>The Gwynedd Council website lists the local councillor for Dyffryn Ardudwy
>>as:
>>Emyr Pugh (Independent)
>>Llwyn
>>TALYBONT
>>Gwynedd
>>LL43 2AA
>>Tel: 01341 247258
>
>Thanks Jon. Now, please, all you naked people.... get writing, get
>phoning. Let your views be heard directly.... straight from you to
>the decision makers.
Regards
Jon.
MARC
>
> If I can beg/borrow/steal (shh! don't tell!) a tent for the weekend...
At last count we had 8 , if you want to borrow one no problem.
Marc
Mike Hopkins
<ji...@gmt.prestel.co.uk> writes
[snip]
>I'm wondering who Pat Thompson of CCBN is though.... local rep?
Shropshire, Merseyside, North Wales & I.O.M.
Remember that we do not know the identity of the "Morfa Derek"! Derek
Brixey is co-opted Vice-Chairman and seeking election for that post. He
is also Regional Representative for Avon, Gloucestershire, Hereford,
Worcestershire (WR post-codes) & South Wales.
Incidentally, is it a wooden spoon question to ask whether Morfa is in
North or South Wales?
Addresses are published in the BN magazine, so presumably they in the
public domain and may (should?) be available on the BN web site. If they
are not, then I am prepared to email them to Jilli.
[snip]
Icarus
> >I wonder just what specific law they are going to use to prosecute
> >people - it may be worth finding out if an actual bye-law has been
> >passed AND sanctioned by the Home Office.
... and Julian replied:
> Unfortunately, if the Fraisthorpe situation is duplicated at Morfa
> Dyffryn, they may not need bylaws or the criminal law to forbid
> naturists from using the beach [or part of it].
>
> As I understand it, East Riding of Yorkshire Council have said, in
> effect, "the beaches here belong to the Council and we forbid
people
> without clothes from using them" - refusal to abide by this diktat
> would, however be a *civil offence* and not a matter for the police.
I don't think a new bye-law criminalising nudity would succeed, but as
Julian says if the beach is council property then they don't need one.
Any involvement of the police would be on the basis that the failure
to conform to the council's rules on the council's property might
result in a breach of the peace (i.e. a conflict between council
officials and people who wish to use the beach nude)... so although
the council's rules are not laws, the police could still effectively
end up enforcing them.
Julian Webb
Well done that woman.
Please let us know the results, I'll be putting together a web page
containing background information and useful addresses very shortly and
it would be very useful to have the 'phone numbers verified - at least.
Edwin Hutton
>
> In article <37c357e5....@news.freeuk.com>, Jilli
> <ji...@gmt.prestel.co.uk> writes
snip...
>
> Incidentally, is it a wooden spoon question to ask whether Morfa is in
> North or South Wales?
>
As far as I know the division between north and south Wales is in the
Aberystwyth area. Morfa Dyffryn is way north of that.
Marc may care to verify.
The wooden spoon may be useful to make your Welsh cakes with.
Edwin Hutton
MARC
> As far as I know the division between north and south Wales is..........
Merthyr!
anf foreign starts at Newport ( mind you Cowbridge is a bit suspect)
Marc
Mark Nisbet
pen.
Just do it.
Best
Mark
Kev
succeed, but as
>Julian says if the beach is council property then they don't need one.
Forgive me, I thought I understood that property ends at the high water mark
Kev
Edwin Hutton
(I take it that the name of Cas Newydd is therefore not allowed.)
Edwin Hutton
Terry Blunt
<kev...@net.ntl.com.nospam> writes
Yes, you're right. I had forgotten about this myself. There are quite a
few comedy sketches based on this very fact.
--
Terry Blunt <te...@langri.demon.co.uk>
Age gives you the experience to screw up properly.
Jon (N Wales)
is conveniently where the borders of the counties of Gwynedd and Ceredigion
area!
Jon.
Jon (N Wales)
Jilli wrote in message <37c30e6f....@news.freeuk.com>...
>Are the restrictive signs up yet?
I managed to arrange for my working day to finish in Porthmadog today so
drove down to have a look.
As of 6.00pm today, there was no sign of any signs. Mind you, with a
westerly breeze coming straight off the sea, there was no sign of any
naturists either! First time I've been on a naturist beach wearing a
cagoule!
Regards
Jon.
Callow
<mi...@ada-augusta.demon.co.xx> wrote:
>Remember that we do not know the identity of the "Morfa Derek"! Derek
>Brixey is co-opted Vice-Chairman and seeking election for that post. He
>is also Regional Representative for Avon, Gloucestershire, Hereford,
>Worcestershire (WR post-codes) & South Wales.
In an email to me requesting a copy of the original Cambrian News
article Derek Brixey used the following signature......
<quote>
Derek Brixey
BN Members Representative for South & Mid Wales.
<unquote>
He certainly has mis-represented himself to me....IMO
--
Terry
http://home.freeuk.com/callowhill/home/index.htm
http://home.clara.net/callowhill/nat.htm
Spamblock in header
Mike Hopkins
<e.hu...@ps.ic.ac.uk> writes
>Mike Hopkins wrote:
>> Incidentally, is it a wooden spoon question to ask whether Morfa is in
>> North or South Wales?
>>
>Rest snipped...
>As far as I know the division between north and south Wales is in the
>Aberystwyth area. Morfa Dyffryn is way north of that.
>Marc may care to verify.
>The wooden spoon may be useful to make your Welsh cakes with.
>
Suzanne Piper
<te...@langri.demon.co.uk> writes
>In article <7q1tkr$s04$1...@nclient9-gui.server.ntli.net>, Kev
><kev...@net.ntl.com.nospam> writes
>>Icarus wrote >I don't think a new bye-law criminalising nudity would
>>succeed, but as
>>>Julian says if the beach is council property then they don't need one.
>>
>>
>>Forgive me, I thought I understood that property ends at the high water mark
>>Kev
>
>Yes, you're right. I had forgotten about this myself. There are quite a
>few comedy sketches based on this very fact.
>
own the land between high and low water marks) have awarded this also to
a particular property owner. Studland is one of the exceptions. Where
Crown still owns the between beach it would normally allow the local
authority to manage it on its behalf. Even if a council did control a
beach it still has to have bye laws ratified by the Home Office.
--
Suzanne Piper
Jilli
<ju...@gravis.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <37c357e5....@news.freeuk.com>, Jilli
><ji...@gmt.prestel.co.uk> writes
>>Definitely feeling a few phone-calls coming on to confirm that info:-)
>
>Well done that woman.
>
>Please let us know the results, I'll be putting together a web page
>containing background information and useful addresses very shortly and
>it would be very useful to have the 'phone numbers verified - at least.
OK... not a lot to be going on with, but at least the phone numbers
work :-) Only too well by the sound of the people answering them...
good on yer naked people ... keep up the pressure :-)
Barry Davies, the Maritime Officer is unavailable and won't be back
until Tuesday. He is the *on the ground* person dealing with this.
I spoke with John Roberts, one of the Council's Solicitors ... in an
attempt to clarify the legalities relating to the intended signs. He
confirmed that following a meeting on site.. approximately 3 weeks
ago.. between Mr. Davies, the local Councillor (sorry, didn't get
his/her name), a member of the North Wales police force (no name was
available) and a few naturists who were there..
me: Who were the naturists please??
Mr. Roberts: I don't have the notes to hand, so I'm unable to say :-(
What IS your interest in this?
me: I'm a naturist and I love that beach... I don't want to see my
use restricted. Are you sure you don't have names for the naturists
expressing their views?
Mr. Roberts. No.
.. it had been decided to erect signs restricting the area where
naturists were permitted to get their kit off. These signs will
apparently be in place this weekend...
Verbatim quote from Mr Roberts:
"to get people used to them before the end of the season".
me: Where will the signs be?
Mr. Roberts: I'm not sure, I don't have the details.
me: The established naturist usage is from the pill box northwards...
will that continue to be acceptable to the Council?
Mr. Roberts: The first "warning sign" will be located to the north of
the pillbox.
Me: How far north?
Mr. Roberts: I can't say, I don't have the details.
Me: Will I still be able to take a naked 2km walk along the surf?
Mr. Roberts: I can't say, I don't have the details... but what's the
problem??
Me: Are you saying I won't have a problem if I continue my naked
usage of the area I'm accustomed to
Mr. Roberts: I can't say, I don't have the details.
So I tried another approach :-(
Me: Under which legal authority is the area being restricted? Has
Council passed a bye-law?
Mr. Roberts. No.
Me: So.. under which authority?
Mr. Roberts: Why do you find this such a problem?
Me: You are restricting my freedom to go naked in an area where
naturism is an established custom.
Mr. Roberts: There have been many complaints from local people.
Me: About naturists?
Mr. Roberts: Many complaints. These people live there.. they have
rights.
Me: Attempted to explain to Mr. Roberts that naturists were as
unhappy about recent indecent behaviour in the non-naturist area as
the local people, but that naturists should not be penalised for that.
I don't think I made much headway :-( I'm sure someone else more
articulate should have another go at this :-) Phone : (01286) 672255
and they will connect you :-)
Me: Its a holiday weekend... may I go naked where I used to?
Mr. Roberts: The signs are expected to be up.
Me: If I am naked outwith the newly restricted area, will the police
be called?
Mr. Roberts: declined to answer, but seemed to think I was making a
fuss over nothing... I would still have an area where I was allowed to
be nude.
Me: gave him a bit of a diatribe about restricting my freedom.. sorry
:-(
Me: Is it intended that this matter be taken to Committee and made
official?
Mr. Roberts: I don't have the details. You need to speak to Barry
Davies (the Martime Officer, back to work on Tuesday.. same number
will reach him).
Me: Until that time, under what authority are you restricting my
established naked use of the beach?
Mr. Roberts: Council has a lease from the Crown. Its being dealt
with as a matter of management policy. It's our property.
Does this sound familiar to anyone??
I tried folks.... I didn't get much out of them... can someone more
articulate than me phone up and try again, please? Before 5pm!
That's 01286 672255.
Anyone fancy phoning the North Wales police now to get their reaction
and an idea of their intentions?
love
Jilli.... with a migraine... be back later.
Callow
Suzanne Piper wrote in message ...
>>
>Dereck was seeking information as Members Representative not as Vice
>Chairman so I cannot see how he misrepresented himself.
Simply by stating he was the Member's Rep. for Mid-Wales and thereby
inferring that Morfa Dyffryn was part of his territory, when it clearly
is not. As Mid-Wales does not exist in CCBN terms (north and south
only) why use the words? OK so I'm cynical and getting more so as the
days go by.
All I want is for someone to say that this guy at Dyffryn wasn't Derek
Brixey, (I actually hope that it wasn't) but if that is the case
somebody in that organisation needs to find out who is claiming to
represent them, if only by putting ideas into the heads of the Council
and Police.
Callow
wrote:
>All I want is for someone to say that this guy at Dyffryn wasn't Derek
>Brixey, (I actually hope that it wasn't) but if that is the case
>somebody in that organisation needs to find out who is claiming to
>represent them, if only by putting ideas into the heads of the Council
>and Police.
Quoting my own post!!
I have now received an email from Derek Brixey in which he firmly
states that he was not the Derek who stayed on Benar Beach during
July. Naturally I accept his statement and formally and publically
apologise for any embarassment that might have been caused to him.
Now that's been cleared up the only question is - who was it?? And
that is all I really wanted to know in the first place.
Sadly the chances of us getting to Dyffryn again this year are getting
more remote by the day.
--
Jon (N Wales)
I've had a message from Chris (Volleyball) of Wrexham who instigated the
leaflets on the beach last week. He's asked me to post the following
information:
Firstly, Councillor Emyr Pugh (the local councillor for Dyffryn Ardudwy
whose details I posted a couple of days ago) is vehemently anti-naturist,
and if approached at all, *should be approached with extreme caution*. i.e.
please don't approach him!
By all means write or speak to Barry Davies the Maritime Officer (01286
672255 thank you Jilli!).
Secondly, someone suggested having a naked protest on the beach, outside the
newly designated naturist area. Chris cautions against this, preferring to
use a "softly softly catchee monkey" approach.
As of yesterday evening, the new signs were not up, but with Barry Davies
being unavailable today, it may just possibly be be that he was supervising
fixing new signs at Dyffryn. There again, knowing the speed at which Cyngor
Gwynedd usually achieve things, they may still be arguing over whether to
put the Welsh or the English first on the sign!
Chris and Betty will be on the beach round about 11am tomorrow morning
(Saturday) and hopefully so will I. If you'll be there too, do say "hello".
I'm the one in a burgundy baseball cap and matching rucksack. (Well, I won't
actually be *in* the rucksack but..........oh well, you know what I mean!)
Hwyl
Jon.
Steve Doerr
<XUQCJGAs5bx3Ew$D...@ada-augusta.demon.co.uk>...
> In article <37C4FF1B...@ps.ic.ac.uk>, Edwin Hutton
> <e.hu...@ps.ic.ac.uk> writes
> >Mike Hopkins wrote:
> >> Incidentally, is it a wooden spoon question to ask whether Morfa is in
> >> North or South Wales?
> >>
> >Rest snipped...
> >As far as I know the division between north and south Wales is in the
> >Aberystwyth area. Morfa Dyffryn is way north of that.
For the edification of my fellow pedants on this group, I found the
following definition: "Wales [. . .] is divided into North Wales and South
Wales, each containing six co[untie]s---Anglesey, Carnarvonshire,
Denbighshire, Flintshire, Merioneth, and Montgomeryshire being in North
Wales [. . .]."
Steve
Stuart Grant
> whose details I posted a couple of days ago) is vehemently anti-naturist,
> and if approached
>
Stuart Grant
Jon (N Wales)
the beach for naturists would be up today - they weren't!
Everybody was in their usual places, more leaflets were being handed out
(although a large number of people were apparently saying "no needs thanks -
I've already written!").
Just after lunch a police Land Rover drove slowly along the beach, and when
it reappeared on its return journey, Chris (Volleyball) flagged it down.
Pleased to report that he had an entirely amicable conversation with the
two officers inside, who apparently said "We were expecting there to be
signs!". They also said that they (i.e. the Police) didn't have a problem
with the naturist beach, but Councillor Pugh of Dyffryn Ardudwy is the one
behind the moves. It was interesting that there appeared to be a large
number of local naturists on the beach today...........!
So, why no signs as yet? Is it because they cannot find the Welsh word for
'naturists' to go on the signs, or is it because they have been bombarded
with letters and telephone calls from beach users and readers of this news
group and are reconsidering the beach length? One would certainly like to
hope so.
>Jilli wrote in message <37c357e5....@news.freeuk.com>...
>>>Good idea! I'll be there if the sun is shining. Will you bring the choccy
>>>biccies?
>>
>>But of course :-)
Sorry to miss you Jilli!
Best wishes
Jon.
Callow
<j...@jonric.force-remove-9.co.uk> wrote:
>
>with the naturist beach, but Councillor Pugh of Dyffryn Ardudwy is the one
>behind the moves. It was interesting that there appeared to be a large
>number of local naturists on the beach today...........!
Cllr Pugh has been trying to get Morfa Dyffryn beach closed to nudists
for years. I would have thought that the designation there is a
major defeat for him however small the area is. From what I know of
him he will be using all means at his disposal to get the designation
removed as quickly as he can.
He is definitely "prejudiced against naturists"....thank you Stuart -
I like it!! :-)
Mike Hopkins
>Suzanne Piper wrote in message ...
>>>
>>>He certainly has mis-represented himself to me....IMO
>
>>Dereck was seeking information as Members Representative not as Vice
>>Chairman so I cannot see how he misrepresented himself.
>
<callowhill@-cut-clara.net> replied
>Simply by stating he was the Member's Rep. for Mid-Wales and thereby
>inferring that Morfa Dyffryn was part of his territory, when it clearly
>is not. As Mid-Wales does not exist in CCBN terms (north and south
>only) why use the words?
to that post. Can anyone persuade me why I should not use as much
influence as I can to ensure that the clubs to which I belong do not
vote in his favour.
Mike Hopkins
<callo...@clara.not> writes
>I have now received an email from Derek Brixey in which he firmly
>states that he was not the Derek who stayed on Benar Beach during
>July. Naturally I accept his statement and formally and publically
>apologise for any embarassment that might have been caused to him.
>
questions than it answers. Among these are ...
Who has been negotiating with the council in the name of CCBN?
Who is the "Morfa Derek" and since, IMO, the manner in which these
negotiations have been undertaken reflect badly upon CCBN, what action
will CCBN be taking?
A number of EC members have denied knowledge of this affair (including
as I understand it the CCBN Members Rep. for North Wales) when will we
hear from the rest?
kaa .b
<suep...@naturisme.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>authority to manage it on its behalf. Even if a council did control a
>beach it still has to have bye laws ratified by the Home Office.
>--
>Suzanne Piper
Where is the beach that we can use? We live in the carmarthen area.
there was talk of a beach at pembrey but iwe dont know if it was
refused permission or not ?
Free Range Nudists
wrote:
> Where is the beach that we can use? We live in the carmarthen area.
>there was talk of a beach at pembrey but iwe dont know if it was
>refused permission or not ?
Cefn Sidan beach (Pembrey Forest) - near Burry Port, Carmarthenshire.
This is not an official naturist beach but it has a long tradition of
use by naturists. A request from CCBN for an officially designated
area was turned down by Carmarthenshire Council - some believe on the
pragmatic grounds of the financial costs involved in putting up
signs,etc, rather than hostility to naturist use.
The notion of official beaches is a flawed strategy. They will be
used to limit - rather than expand - naturist use of public beaches.
The way forward is to assert the right to nude recreation on all
beaches.
For first time visitors it is probably best to enter and park in the
Pembrey Country Park. From the car park head for the beach and then
turn right (i.e. West) and walk along the beach for 20 mins or so
until you are well away from the thousands of summer visitors to the
beach area in front of the Country Park. There are miles of sand
backed by dunes and the forest. However, it is a long walk to the
water's edge because it is at the mouth of an estuary so expect to
sunbathe not swim.
Free Range Nudists - independent nudism/naturism in Wales
http://homepage.dtn.ntl.com/terence.p/free.htm
Usenet newsgroup : free.naturism.wales
** For email remove "nospam." from address shown in header**
Kev
>used to limit - rather than expand - naturist use of public beaches.
>The way forward is to assert the right to nude recreation on all
>beaches.
Now that is an interesting comment, and one that probably requires
discussion (but please not heated.. I do goko to relax not get wound up !!).
Personally I would *now* agree with you, as the welsh thing seems to prove
that whenever an area gets official approval it is a) shrunk to its minimal
area, and b) is way way from easy access. [Now here is a thought, can
someone that is / or has knowledge of immobility problems please comment on
"cant we get them for reducing the area so badly in terms of "lack of
disabled access" - which I understood was a *mandatory* thing for official
approved places ? ]
Views anyone else.. ?
Kev
(yes I didn't get to Studland... the front gardens looking better though!)
--
Letchworth & District Astronomy Society -
http://www.thetrainingpost.co.uk/ldas/home.htm
Kev's Home Page - http://websites.ntl.com/~kev.pye/
** From Kev Pye, remove nospam. to reply **
ronnie
<ju...@gravis.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <lNEFXMA+...@naturisme.demon.co.uk>, Suzanne Piper
><suep...@naturisme.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>>I wonder just what specific law they are going to use to prosecute
>>people - it may be worth finding out if an actual bye-law has been
>>passed AND sanctioned by the Home Office.
>
>Unfortunately, if the Fraisthorpe situation is duplicated at Morfa
>Dyffryn, they may not need bylaws or the criminal law to forbid
>naturists from using the beach [or part of it].
>
>As I understand it, East Riding of Yorkshire Council have said, in
>effect, "the beaches here belong to the Council and we forbid people
>without clothes from using them" - refusal to abide by this diktat
>would, however be a *civil offence* and not a matter for the police.
>
>For various reasons, this assertion by EROYC has not been subjected to
>legal scrutiny in a court case - AFAIK.
I had a circular from David Martin yesterday which suggests that the
Fraisethorpe situation is not nearly as bad as feared and that when a
new police Inspector took over the area he was content for genuine
naturists to continue using the beach and would only act against
persons behaving indecently.
This seems to confirm that any court action would have be a civil
case by the Council.
Ronnie
Mike Berridge
of what has transpired there. I felt that the 'Derek' mentioned would not be
Derek Brixey, as he would have been very unlikely to have done what has been
said.
We have an EC meeting at BDOC on the Saturday, and I have E mailed the
Chairman asking if there can be a statement on the subject, that I can put
onto this NG.
Mike
8-)#
Mike Hopkins wrote in message ...
>In article <37c6f7f9...@news.clara.net>, Callow
><callo...@clara.not> writes
>>I have now received an email from Derek Brixey in which he firmly
>>states that he was not the Derek who stayed on Benar Beach during
>>July.
Mike Berridge
so there was no vote. Clubs have no say in who is elected to any Officer
post in CCBN now as a result of the voting changes passed at the 1998 AGM.
It is you the members who put people forward for the posts, and you the
members who can vote for them.
Mike
8-)#
Mike Hopkins wrote in message ...
>Derek Brixey is currently co-opted Vice Chairman and is seeking election
>to that post. Can anyone persuade me why I should not use as much
>influence as I can to ensure that the clubs to which I belong do not
>vote in his favour.
Callow
Mike Berridge wrote in message
<7qdr55$upc$1...@newsreader2.core.theplanet.net>...
>I have, so far, kept out of this discussion as I have no personal
knowledge
>of what has transpired there. I felt that the 'Derek' mentioned would
not be
>Derek Brixey, as he would have been very unlikely to have done what has
been
>said.
>
>We have an EC meeting at BDOC on the Saturday, and I have E mailed the
>Chairman asking if there can be a statement on the subject, that I can
put
>onto this NG.
No need for me as regards Derek Brixey. We've sorted that privately
although we are both still very interested in knowing who this other
person was. Amicable email exchange in progress!
If you mean the whole Dyffryn issue then thats a different thing
altogether.
Marc&Rachel
> From what I know of
> him he will be using all means at his disposal to get the designation
> removed as quickly as he can.
>
> He is definitely "prejudiced against naturists"....thank you Stuart -
> I like it!! :-)
>
> --
> Terry
Any reason we can't move the signs up the beach 5 yrds very week?I bet
they won't even notice until the sign is in the car park!
Marc
Mike Hopkins
<digi...@tinyonline.co.uk> writes
> Where is the beach that we can use? We live in the carmarthen area.
>there was talk of a beach at pembrey but iwe dont know if it was
>refused permission or not ?
am not surprised that you are confused. However ...
1. I suggest that you look in the NUFF <http://w3.to/nuff> and follow
the links to a piece on the subject of nudity and the law in which you
will find the views of a retired policeman who is also a naturist.
2. Look for a copy of the CCBN "Nude Tolerance" manifesto (I believe
there is a copy in the NUFF. If there is not a copy on the CCBN web
site, there ought to be). I hope that it makes sense to you and seems
reasonable. If so, you may wish to know that there is a statement in one
of the latest copies of the CCBN journal that if you are a member and
are accused of a beach offence while following those guidelines (and
plead not guilty) CCBN promise to defend you in court.
3. Be aware that, members or not, the local police in Somerset recently
attempted to prosecute some nude sunbathers and the CPS refused to
proceed.
Sometimes there may be a sound arguable case for designation. Studland
is a prime example because of extreme pressures on the land owners from
an overloading of visitors many of whom have conflicted interests and
aspirations. My understanding is that there are no such problems at Cefn
Stedan and so the local authority see no reason for official
designation. I would suggest that any attempt on the part of CCBN to
persuade otherwise is at variance with the spirit and purpose behind
their nude tolerance manifesto.
Mike Hopkins
<kev...@net.ntl.com.nospam> writes
>
>Now that is an interesting comment, and one that probably requires
>discussion (but please not heated.. I do goko to relax not get wound up !!).
>Personally I would *now* agree with you, as the welsh thing seems to prove
>that whenever an area gets official approval it is a) shrunk to its minimal
>area, and b) is way way from easy access. [Now here is a thought, can
>someone that is / or has knowledge of immobility problems please comment on
>"cant we get them for reducing the area so badly in terms of "lack of
>disabled access" - which I understood was a *mandatory* thing for official
>approved places ? ]
>
>Views anyone else.. ?
>
walked from the nearer of the two car parks and by the time we got to
the "pill box" she had had enough. If the designated part of the beach
is to be North of that point then the Morfa beach will be out of range
for her. Rest assured that we will be writing the appropriate letter.
A fuller posting on this subject is coming soon.
Jon (N Wales)
Marc&Rachel wrote in message
<1dxdcu4.vc...@jaceeprint.demon.co.uk>...
>Any reason we can't move the signs up the beach 5 yrds very week?I bet
>they won't even notice until the sign is in the car park!
Well now, apparently the plan is to put signs, or at least information up at
both the Snowdonia National Park car park beach entrance and the Dyffryn
Seaside Estate beach entrance announcing where the naturist beach is. This
is because without those, people walking up the beach towards the pill box
but undressing before reaching the naturist bit can still say "Oh, I thought
I was on the naturist beach" because they haven't walked far enough to see
the signs. No doubt this will increase the number of voyeurs and perverts,
or even families from Brum "Coom on oor Wayne, let's go an 'ave a look at
them noodists". (And before anyone from Brum tells me off [Mike Paley, are
you there?], I too am originally from near Birmingham!).
Regarding the prospect of moving the signs 5 yards up the beach every week,
at that rate it'll take around seven years to reach the car park, by which
time they'll probably have been washed away in winter storms!
Hwyl
Jon.
Andynude
>
>> From what I know of
>> him he will be using all means at his disposal to get the designation
>> removed as quickly as he can.
>>
>> He is definitely "prejudiced against naturists"....thank you Stuart -
>> I like it!! :-)
>>
>> --
>> Terry
>
>they won't even notice until the sign is in the car park!
>
Howabout we start having "No Nudity Allowed" signs up instead of all this
crap about "naturists may be seen beyond this point". (yes I have been to
Studland Marc) and then as nudity becomes a regular occurence we just paint
over the word "No".
--
Andynude
www.skyworld.freeserve.co.uk/index.htm
D Robinson
(Marc&Rachel) wrote:
>Any reason we can't move the signs up the beach 5 yrds very week?I bet
>they won't even notice until the sign is in the car park!
>
>Marc
What a brilliant idea; the best I've heard yet.
D Robinson
wrote:
Sory, I forgot to sign.
David from Mold
PS 5 Yards both ends!
David
Jilli
(Marc&Rachel) wrote:
>Any reason we can't move the signs up the beach 5 yrds very week?I bet
>they won't even notice until the sign is in the car park!
>
>Marc
Marc... that is such a wonderfully devious idea ... :-))
Any input from Rachel perhaps? <g>
Serious though... what about the northern end of the beach?? Is there
a limit proposed for that? My fave diversion is to start my walk
around the pill-box area and just head off up the surf-line until my
legs begin to give out and I start to wonder if I can make it back
again..... wil I run into a restrictive sign before then?
Just another thought re: the disability approach: I'm terribly
short-sighted... if they put a sign up saying *Put your clothes on
here!* at the northern limit... I'm sure to walk right past it without
even seeing it, let alone being able to read it. So it must be the
Council's fault for not providing adequate signage for the
visually-challenged, mustn't it?? I'm still waiting for a naturist
lawyer to *wave* at us.... I've got the tea and biccies ready :-)
love
Jilli... wondering what time Barry Davies starts work on Tuesday
morning :-)
tim_f...@my-deja.com
>
> ... Clubs have no say in who is elected to any Officer
> post in CCBN now as a result of the voting changes passed
Not strictly true, at least, not in my understanding of the CURRENT
arrangements for Regional posts. Unless/until the changes proposed to
the *1999* AGM go through, clubs are the effective electorate for
Regional officers. At least, that's my understanding. ISTR Mike
pointing out a year or two back that he was the first example of a
non-club Regional rep.
Tim Forcer t...@ecs.soton.ac.uk
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
MARC
> Marc... that is such a wonderfully devious idea ... :-))
> Any input from Rachel perhaps? <g>
Here idea .... paint the english bits out in green , then as Welsh is
not recognized as an EEC langauge complain to the EEC that the labled
area is not defined correctly.. repeat as neccessary.
Marc
Mike Hopkins
0f Mike Berridge
>pointing out a year or two back that he was the first example of a
>non-club Regional rep.
The only one who is seen to attempt to keep an ear open to "grass roots
opinion". CCBN needs more like him.
On the wider question of regional reps., is there an argument for
regions of interest? Oh! for an EC member who is known to be a regular
beach nudist.
Mike Berridge
all CCBN Officers, the rest of the EC are not classed as Officers.
In regard to election of Regional EC delegates, my region, the Midland
Region, had a discussion as to how we could make the election of the EC
delegate open to the individual members, not just the clubs. However, at
that time financial considerations meant that it would have been too
expensive, without the involvement of CCBN as a whole, however, if it is
passed at the AGM, then we at least have some thoughts as to what to
implement.
his took place a year ago, just after the decision of the AGM to give the
individual members the power to elect the Officers of CCBN. We felt that
this was the next step towards democratising CCBN. The agenda for the AGM
shows we were ahead of the EC in that thinking.
Mike
8-)#
Mike Hopkins wrote in message ...
Mike Berridge
'Derek', now we are aware it is not Derek Brixey.
I have asked that we have something I, or another EC member, can publish
here.
Mike
8-)#
Callow wrote in message ...
>
>Mike Berridge wrote in message
><7qdr55$upc$1...@newsreader2.core.theplanet.net>...
>>We have an EC meeting at BDOC on the Saturday, and I have E mailed the
>>Chairman asking if there can be a statement on the subject, that I can
>put
>>onto this NG.
Jilli
<j...@jonric.force-remove-9.co.uk> wrote:
>By all means write or speak to Barry Davies the Maritime Officer (01286
>672255 thank you Jilli!).
Here's my up-date, in case anyone thinks I've let this one slide.....
I'm sorry, but it just got too expensive making long-distance calls in
an attempt to speak to the Maritime Officer. So, I resorted to
old-fashioned technology, and wrote him a letter. The minute I get a
reply, I'll post it here.
>Secondly, someone suggested having a naked protest on the beach, outside the
>newly designated naturist area. Chris cautions against this, preferring to
>use a "softly softly catchee monkey" approach.
Chris's approach sounds good to me in light of the attitude of the
police-people last weekend. I totally understand the attitude of
residents, police, Councillors, naturists, whoever, who don't want to
see illegal sexual activity in the dunes. I don't either. Which is
why I don't go there. I'm still a bit perplexed as to why the
out-in-the-open naturist beach users are the ones being limited and
checked-up-on though.
>As of yesterday evening, the new signs were not up,
Any feedback relating to the current situation regarding signs and
police/Council-warden activity to enforce the newly-restricted limts,
from people fortunate enough to be able to get there this weekend,
would be more than welcome :-)
Have a good weekend, folks.. wherever you spend it :-)
love
Jilli
Jon (N Wales)
Jilli wrote in message <37d02cac...@news.freeuk.com>...
>I totally understand the attitude of
>residents, police, Councillors, naturists, whoever, who don't want to
>see illegal sexual activity in the dunes. I don't either. Which is
>why I don't go there. I'm still a bit perplexed as to why the
>out-in-the-open naturist beach users are the ones being limited and
>checked-up-on though.
Actually, the problem started because of people leaving the beach and
walking back south the mile or so to the car park, and not getting dressed
and wandering into the textile section of beach. As some of these people
were naked around half a mile from the naturist beach, some textiles
understandably complained about people being naked on a beach that wasn't
the naturist section of beach. The people doing this are a very small
minority of the hundreds of naturists who use Morfa Dyffryn. Currently, the
loophole of "Oh, I didn't realise I wasn't on the naturist beach" exists,
and the council wish to close this by clearly marking the section of beach
where naturism is permitted.
The problems are caused by non-naturists hiding in the dunes for a gawp at
the naturists on the beach. It doesn't happen often but when it does, it's a
bit unsettling. In fact, last Saturday afternoon, a man (textile) was
spotted in the dunes by naturists on the beach, who was using a video camera
to film groups of naturists. They detained him and called the police and the
man was arrested. Good co-operation between naturists and police to stamp
out unacceptable behaviour. The police are, incidentally, patrolling the
whole of the beach, not just the naturist bit.
>>As of yesterday evening, the new signs were not up,
>
>Any feedback relating to the current situation regarding signs and
>police/Council-warden activity to enforce the newly-restricted limts,
>from people fortunate enough to be able to get there this weekend,
>would be more than welcome :-)
If the weather's OK, I'll be there! Striped windbreak, burgundy baseball
cap, burgundy/green rucksack, yellow/red towel, glasses, wearing gold chain
round neck, and probably nothing else! Do say "hello" - honestly, I'm quite
friendly!
Jon.
Jon (N Wales)
>>Any feedback relating to the current situation regarding signs and
>>police/Council-warden activity to enforce the newly-restricted limts,
>>from people fortunate enough to be able to get there this weekend,
>>would be more than welcome :-)
Signs NOT up, 1200m of beach being used by naturists, sunshine all day -
after arriving at about 1pm, I finally left at 7.15pm, the weather was so
good. What a great day!
There was no sign of the police today, but a Gwynedd Council van appeared
being driven very fast along the beach around lunchtime - possibly a council
employee seeing how far the naturist beach really extended - we thought it a
shame that the police weren't there otherwise we'd have reported him for
speeding! A number of people I spoke to have already sent letters to the
Council objecting to the short length of naturist beach. Just to re-iterate,
they are proposing just 500m which is about 1/3rd the current length. There
seem to be two possible explanations for the non-appearance of the signs,
either the council are so disorganised that they have been unable to produce
the signs, or they have been so taken aback by the amount of letters written
regarding the naturist beach that they're having a rethink over its length.
Finally, if you haven't yet written, the person to write to is:
Barry Davies
Maritime Officer
Gwynedd Council
Ffordd y Cob
Pwllheli
Gwynedd
LL53 5AA
Thank you all.
Jon.
Malcolm B
ji...@gmt.prestel.co.uk (Jilli) wrote:
>>>>>
> I'm sorry, but it just got too expensive making long-distance calls in
> an attempt to speak to the Maritime Officer. So, I resorted to
> old-fashioned technology, and wrote him a letter. The minute I get a
> reply, I'll post it here.
Can you post the address and phone number again please. I have a letter
ready to go, but the early posts have now been expired from my server.
>>>>>
--
Malcolm, Webmaster for NUFF venues.
NUFF <http://w3.to/nuff/> is the FAQ for the uk.rec.naturist newsgroup.
Please read before posting to the group.
It is the comprehensive www source of UK naturist information.
Jon (N Wales)
Malcolm B wrote in message <9b30733...@armage.demon.co.uk>...
>Can you post the address and phone number again please. I have a letter
>ready to go, but the early posts have now been expired from my server.
Barry Davies
Maritime Officer
Gwynedd Council
Ffordd y Cob
Pwllheli
Gwynedd
LL53 5AA
Tel: 01286 672255
See also my other posting of 4/9/99 of report of 'today on the beach'. The
text of the leaflet being handed out is also reproduced as follows:
"LEGALISATION - THE GOOD NEWS AND THE BAD
Dear Fellow Naturist - you may have heard that the local authority intend
legalising an area of this beach for naturist use. The proposals are to
start the beach 300 metres to the North of the pill box (further away from
the car parks) and to allow us to use 500 metres of beach. Anyone found
naked outside this area (which will be sign posted) will be liable to
prosecution. You may like to consider the following points:
* we currently use about 1500 metres of beach so 500m is going to be very
crowded
* no more long walks along the waters edge
* the beach to the north of our section will be empty for 1000m
* the environmental impact of 500 people in such a compact area will be
detrimental to the beach and the dunes
* people with walking difficulties will find it even harder to reach
'our' beach
Please send your comments to: The Maritime Officer. Cyngor Gwynedd Council,
Ffordd y Cob, Pwllheli, LL53 5AA. THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT."
Thanks
Jon.
D J Linton
> Signs NOT up, 1200m of beach being used by naturists, sunshine all day -
> after arriving at about 1pm, I finally left at 7.15pm, the weather was so
> good. What a great day!
>
> There was no sign of the police today, but a Gwynedd Council van appeared
> being driven very fast along the beach around lunchtime - possibly a council
> employee seeing how far the naturist beach really extended - we thought it a
> shame that the police weren't there otherwise we'd have reported him for
> speeding! A number of people I spoke to have already sent letters to the
> Council objecting to the short length of naturist beach. Just to re-iterate,
> they are proposing just 500m which is about 1/3rd the current length. There
> seem to be two possible explanations for the non-appearance of the signs,
> either the council are so disorganised that they have been unable to produce
> the signs, or they have been so taken aback by the amount of letters written
> regarding the naturist beach that they're having a rethink over its length.
Still no signs today (Sunday). Again, lots of people on the beach.
I saw the council van as well on Saturday and also thought it was being driven
rather fast.
Marc&Rachel
> I saw the council van as well on Saturday and also thought it was being driven
> rather fast.
Then complain to the police ( as I recall the RTF now includes all
public places ) and the Martime Officer. To quote R.Heinlein " "Public
Servants" are lazy , if they weren't they woudn't be "Public Servants""
The way local politics works is ..... Local councillor makes enought
hassle for "Public Servants" to take action , "Public Servants"
want a quiet life, if the "Public " make enough fuss the "Public
Servants" will ignore the local councilor. Lets face it the "Public
Servants"
are there for life the public are there always the Local councillor is
only there for 4 yrs at a time . More tips on action? count up how much
money you have spent there, write to the local chamber of trade and
newspapers with hard figures of real cash.tell the local cafe, pub,
petrol station, shop etc ... that Mr ????????? the local councilor is
trying to cut THEIR earnings.
Marc
Mike Hopkins
<j...@jonric.force-remove-9.co.uk> writes
> Just to re-iterate,
>they are proposing just 500m which is about 1/3rd the current length. There
>seem to be two possible explanations for the non-appearance of the signs,
>either the council are so disorganised that they have been unable to produce
>the signs, or they have been so taken aback by the amount of letters written
>regarding the naturist beach that they're having a rethink over its length.
>
>
>Maritime Officer
>Gwynedd Council
>Ffordd y Cob
>Pwllheli
>Gwynedd
>LL53 5AA
>
significant distance North of the pill box will be bad news for the halt
and the lame.
Jilli
(Marc&Rachel) wrote:
>D J Linton <dli...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>> I saw the council van as well on Saturday and also thought it was being driven
>> rather fast.
>Then complain to the police ( as I recall the RTF now includes all
>public places ) and the Martime Officer.
Everyone got the Maritime Officer's name...Barry Davies.....??
Perhaps he was the one driving fast to avoid any questions? :-)
>To quote R.Heinlein " "Public
>Servants" are lazy , if they weren't they woudn't be "Public Servants""
>The way local politics works is ..... Local councillor makes enought
>hassle for "Public Servants" to take action , "Public Servants"
> want a quiet life, if the "Public " make enough fuss the "Public
>Servants" will ignore the local councilor. Lets face it the "Public
>Servants"
> are there for life the public are there always the Local councillor is
>only there for 4 yrs at a time .
> More tips on action? count up how much
>money you have spent there, write to the local chamber of trade and
>newspapers with hard figures of real cash.tell the local cafe, pub,
>petrol station, shop etc ... that Mr ????????? the local councilor is
>trying to cut THEIR earnings.
>
>Marc
Agree with you totally Marc. Local business owners, their employees,
anyone deriving their income from visitors in what is a predominantly
tourist area, might well be interested to hear how their
representative is attempting to limit visitor facilities and thus the
number of people likely to arrive with cash to spend.... it's going to
directly affect their income.
So, from the Gwynedd County Council website at
http://www.gwynedd.gov.uk/ here's your man:
Dyffryn Ardudwy constituency:
Mr Emyr Pugh
(Independent)
elected unopposed on 7th May 1999.
....as were the majority of Councillors for this region :-(
Advice please re: which is the local newspaper?
Meanwhile, reaching for the Yellow Pages, Thomson's Directory... and
trying to remember how to do a mail-merge... if a mail-shot is thought
to be worthwhile? If so, I could do with a bit of help on this one.
Can someone else more articulate than me write the text of the letter,
please? I'm more than willing to do the rest....
Plan B: If I compile a list of businesses in the area, is anyone
prepared to write their own letters directly to them?
I can't help thinking about what Mr. Roberts said... "The restrictions
are being imposed towards the end of the season to allow people time
to get used to them" ... or in other words... there soon won't be
anyone around to complain :-(
love
Jilli
PS: Has anyone approached the local Tourist Board about this yet?
Does anyone have the name/address/phone details of the local Tourist
Board office please?
Mike Hopkins
<ji...@gmt.prestel.co.uk> writes
>Local business owners, their employees,
>anyone deriving their income from visitors in what is a predominantly
>tourist area, might well be interested to hear how their
>representative is attempting to limit visitor facilities and thus the
>number of people likely to arrive with cash to spend.... it's going to
>directly affect their income.
>
anti-nudity laws) seems to be aware of that. Last year, the non-naturist
Mayor of a sea-side resort looked with envy across the border to Holland
and decided that naturism would be good for local business.
He tried to organise a public disobedience campaign. Came the day. A
large media presence, a large police presence, a large spectator
presence, a few bona-fide naturists and the mayor all met on the beach.
After a brief stand off, the police announced that if anyone stripped
off, the Mayor would be arrested. It appears that no one wanted to see
the Mayor arrested and so everybody went home.
Oh well! Not every story has a happy ending.
cyndiann
Jon (N Wales) <j...@jonric.force-remove-9.co.uk> wrote in message
news:xTWz3.4626$C7.101560@wards...
>
In fact, last Saturday afternoon, a man (textile) was
> spotted in the dunes by naturists on the beach, who was using a video
camera
> to film groups of naturists. They detained him and called the police and
the
> man was arrested. Good co-operation between naturists and police to stamp
> out unacceptable behaviour. The police are, incidentally, patrolling the
> whole of the beach, not just the naturist bit.
>
pictures against someone's knowledge? Here in the US, it is considered in
bad taste to do so, but there is no law against it, so it makes me curious
as to exactly what the laws are there?
cyndiann
Jon (N Wales)
Jilli wrote in message <37d35d14...@news.freeuk.com>...
>PS: Has anyone approached the local Tourist Board about this yet?
>Does anyone have the name/address/phone details of the local Tourist
>Board office please?
Mid Wales Tourism
The Station
Machynlleth
Powys
SY20 8TG
is probably the best bet.
Jon.
D J Linton
> D J Linton <dli...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> > I saw the council van as well on Saturday and also thought it was being driven
> > rather fast.
> Then complain to the police ( as I recall the RTF now includes all
> public places ) and the Martime Officer.
I already have - in the form of a letter to the Maritime Officer
Dave
Malcolm B
"cyndiann" <cynd...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
I am not familiar with this particular incident, and I am not a lawer
but I believe that it goes something like this.
To arrest someone the police need only reasonable suspicion that a crime
has been committed. Indecent video of children (whether clothed or not)
is an offence so furtive videoing at a naturist beach is probably enough
to justify arrest. NB it is the pictures themselves that are judged, not
what the children were doing and/or wearing at the time. Depending on what
was on the tape, and what he said when interviewed, that could lead to a
search warrant to search his house, car etc. There are also a number of
things to do with causing a public nuisance, eg breach of the peace,
that could result in court action.
NB for an ordinary citizen to arrest someone, they must know that an
offence has been committed. Suspicion is not enough. Thus, from what
I have heard, the naturists who detained him were on dodgy ground.
Tim Forcer
>
> Malcolm B <nu...@armage.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> NB for an ordinary citizen to arrest someone, they must know
>> that an offence has been committed. Suspicion is not enough.
>> Thus, from what I have heard, the naturists who detained him
>> were on dodgy ground.
>
> IIRC one of the "Do you know your rights" programmes a while
> back the alleged offence also *has* to be one that carries
> a maximum penalty of a fairly long period of imprisonment.
> Where's Zardoz these days to quote chapter & verse?
IANAL, but I love to try to look clever, so here's my contribution.
If blokie was causing significant concern and unhappiness amongst the
nuddies, then I'd say there was prima facie (?) evidence of behaviour
likely to cause a breach of the peace. If investigations by the proper
authorities then turned up indecent imagery on the camcorder tape, then
that's something else (NB - any naturists who'd taken snaps of their
kids that day might find that investigation of THEIR films would turn up
"indecent" images. The law in this area is not one any naturist should
fancy being tangled up in, IMO.)
ISTR that a police officer's power of arrest is no more than that of an
ordinary citizen, but that could be either folklore, urban myth or
something that's been changed in the last decade or two (eg Police and
Criminal Evidence Act).
--
Tim Forcer t...@ecs.soton.ac.uk
The University of Southampton, UK
The University is not responsible for my opinions
Mike Hopkins
<nu...@armage.demon.co.uk> writes in reply to an enquiry by
>
>To arrest someone the police need only reasonable suspicion that a crime
>has been committed. Indecent video of children (whether clothed or not)
>is an offence so furtive videoing at a naturist beach is probably enough
>to justify arrest. NB it is the pictures themselves that are judged, not
>what the children were doing and/or wearing at the time. Depending on what
>was on the tape, and what he said when interviewed, that could lead to a
>search warrant to search his house, car etc. There are also a number of
>things to do with causing a public nuisance, eg breach of the peace,
>that could result in court action.
>
playing naked on a UK beach (naturist or non-naturist). For this reason
parents and other adults are alert for the possibility that someone may
be showing undue interest in a child that is not his/her own. However
there is a down side to this, in some places a shout of "pedo" could
raise an instant lynch mob. It is even possible that the police were
taking the heat out of a potentially volatile situation and moving the
guy away for his own protection.
>offence has been committed. Suspicion is not enough. Thus, from what
>I have heard, the naturists who detained him were on dodgy ground.
>
just causing a "breach of the peace"? In which case, perhaps the police
gave him a free ride back to the office, left him to cool his heels in a
cell for a few hours and subsequently released him without charge. This
is not a soft option (especially in a small community) because they
would now know him and he would be in deep trouble if a similar thing
were to happen again.
Malcolm B
Tim Forcer <t...@ecs.soton.ac.uk.nojunk> wrote:
> Kris wrote:
> >
> > Malcolm B <nu...@armage.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >> NB for an ordinary citizen to arrest someone, they must know
> >> that an offence has been committed. Suspicion is not enough.
> >> Thus, from what I have heard, the naturists who detained him
> >> were on dodgy ground.
> >
> > A Citizen's Arrest is indeed a murky area for the average punter.
> > IIRC one of the "Do you know your rights" programmes a while
> > back the alleged offence also *has* to be one that carries
> > a maximum penalty of a fairly long period of imprisonment.
> > Where's Zardoz these days to quote chapter & verse?
>
> IANAL, but I love to try to look clever, so here's my contribution.
>
> If blokie was causing significant concern and unhappiness amongst the
> nuddies, then I'd say there was prima facie (?) evidence of behaviour
> likely to cause a breach of the peace. If investigations by the proper
> authorities then turned up indecent imagery on the camcorder tape, then
> that's something else (NB - any naturists who'd taken snaps of their
> kids that day might find that investigation of THEIR films would turn up
> "indecent" images. The law in this area is not one any naturist should
> fancy being tangled up in, IMO.)
>
> ISTR that a police officer's power of arrest is no more than that of an
> ordinary citizen, but that could be either folklore, urban myth or
> something that's been changed in the last decade or two (eg Police and
> Criminal Evidence Act).
I have just looked out my law notes from 25 years ago. There have been
acts since then which have completely recodified this area of law, but
I think following the same general principles. Thus some of this is
probably out of date. However, what my notes say is:
Police can arrest either with or without a warrant. Without a warrant
then either they must suspect that an offence has been committed and the
person is suspect, or they must suspect the person of committing an
offence. [I don't recall quite what the difference between those two
was]. In addition, they can arrest a person they believe is about to
commit an offence.
A private citizen can arrest when they KNOW that an offence has been
committed and have reasonable grounds for suspecting the person.
I recall our lecturer commenting that the consequences of getting a
citizen's arrest wrong (both civil and criminal) were very serious and
he strongly advised us never, under any circumstances, to carry out a
citizens arrest. The example he gave us was something like: "Crash,
bang, wallop, scream and a hooligan comes running round the corner
carrying a hand bag. A citizen can not arrest him because they do not
KNOW that an offence has occurred. The sound effects may have been
unrelated and he was trying to catch up with his gran who had left her
bag behind."
IIRC, and it's not in my notes because the lecturer talked very fast,
assisting the police to apprehend someone is OK.
Andynude
>>
>I was wondering what he is charged with. Is it against the law to take
>pictures against someone's knowledge? Here in the US, it is considered in
>bad taste to do so, but there is no law against it, so it makes me curious
>as to exactly what the laws are there?
>cyndiann
>
I think that it is called a witchhunt.
When somone does something that the majority of surrounding people dislike,
that person has automatically committed an offence that can result in verbal
or physical abuse, ridicule or calling the police.
As we know, a lot of naturists freak at the thought of a camera, and when
confronted with a camcorder they lose all perception of right/wrong good/bad
etc. and can only beleive the worst.
As this person was caught 'red handed' with a camcorder on a naturist beach
it is quite obvious that he was making hardcore porn. If he survived the
wrath of the gentile, kind nudists, he will enevitably get life imprisonment
from the legal system.<smirk>
--
Andynude
www.skyworld.freeserve.co.uk/index.htm
Mike Hopkins
<j...@jonric.force-remove-9.co.uk> started this thread when he wrote ...
>I was at Morfa Dyffryn on Saturday afternoon, and the news buzzing up and
>down the beach was of the extremely short length of beach proposed for
>Naturist use by Cyngor Gwynedd Council, which will come into effect within
>the next few days. Signs are due to be up by next weekend, and anyone found
>naked outside the designated area will be liable to prosecution.
>
The minutes of the July meeting of Gwynedd Council's Executive Committee
are now available on their website. There is no mention of Morfa
Dyffryn. One assumes that any designation should have been approved by
the Council before it could be put into effect.
What is going on? The copy date for BN141 was 1st July.
Jilli
<Andy...@skyworld.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>If he survived the
>wrath of the gentile, kind nudists, he will enevitably get life imprisonment
>from the legal system.
Oi !! .... can we keep religion out of this please?
love
Jilli
Mike Hopkins
>I was at Morfa Dyffryn on Saturday afternoon, and the news buzzing up and
>down the beach was of the extremely short length of beach proposed for
>Naturist use by Cyngor Gwynedd Council, which will come into effect within
>the next few days. Signs are due to be up by next weekend, and anyone found
>naked outside the designated area will be liable to prosecution.
>
>the length of beach proposed is far too short, and an outraged "they can't
>take away most of our beach from us". The writer of one of the recent
>letters to the 'Cambrian News' was handing out leaflets to everyone on the
>beach, urging them to write in to the Council to make their feelings known
>and I asked for his permission to reproduce it here:
>
>"LEGALISATION - THE GOOD NEWS AND THE BAD
>Dear Fellow Naturist - you may have heard that the local authority intend
>legalising an area of this beach for naturist use. The proposals are to
>start the beach 300 metres to the North of the pill box (further away from
>the car parks) and to allow us to use 500 metres of beach. Anyone found
>naked outside this area (which will be sign posted) will be liable to
>prosecution. You may like to consider the following points:
>* we currently use about 1500 metres of beach so 500m is going to be very
>crowded
>* no more long walks along the waters edge
>* the beach to the north of our section will be empty for 1000m
>* the environmental impact of 500 people in such a compact area will be
>detrimental to the beach and the dunes
>* people with walking difficulties will find it even harder to reach
>'our' beach
>Please send your comments to: The Maritime Officer. Cyngor Gwynedd Council,
>Ffordd y Cob, Pwllheli, LL53 5AA. THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT."
>
>by naturists. The most crowded section was the first 300 metres north from
>the pill box - I counted 41 groups of people in that section - around 110
>people all told. If you use, or have used the naturist beach at Morfa
>Dyffryn, please make your feelings known to Gwynedd Council.
>
Well I wrote my letter and in it I concentrated upon problems of access
for the halt and lame should the start of the area be moved too far
North of the pill box. Today I had a reply. The last paragraph reads ...
<quote>
Thank you for bringing your views to our attention, consideration may be
given to these should a decision be made on identifying an area
acceptable for Naturist Bathing
<unquote>
Gordon Harris
ld.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>
>As this person was caught 'red handed' with a camcorder on a naturist beach
>wrath of the gentile, kind nudists, he will enevitably get life imprisonment
I note the smirk, but if he was there furtively, and had the usual long
zoom lens, he was there for the "wrong" reasons IMO, maybe hoping to
catch a few close-up genitals, the sad man.
On one beach I noticed a guy with a huge (600mm?) lens on his still
camera, pointed at us from only 10 yards or so away. When I grabbed my
camera and pretended to take his photograph he scuttled away.
Is there a recognised name for these chaps? Porno-paparrazzi?
--
Gordon
Jon (N Wales)
Mike Hopkins wrote in message <150aCbAtcm13Ewoz@ada-
>Well I wrote my letter and in it I concentrated upon problems of access
>for the halt and lame should the start of the area be moved too far
>North of the pill box. Today I had a reply. The last paragraph reads ...
>
><quote>
>Thank you for bringing your views to our attention, consideration may be
>given to these should a decision be made on identifying an area
>acceptable for Naturist Bathing
><unquote>
Hey Mike - looks like I've had the same letter!
In answer to just who has apparently been consulted, Barry Davies (Maritime
Officer) writes:
"In defining such an area, Gwynedd Council have consulted with the Local
Community Council, and the Local Member for Gwynedd Council.
The views of the local community, as is understandable, will be given every
consideration in the Council's deliberations in considering defining the
possibility of allocating such an area for the purpose of Naturist Bathing.
Furthermore, Gwynedd Council have also been in consultation with Dyffryn
Seaside Estates, and the North Wales Police Authority, seeking their views
and observations on the proposal."
I won't quote more from the letter as I presume that all of you who have
written have received an identical reply in todays post. Hmmm, anyway,
letter in post to Barry Davies, pleased that Gwynedd have undertaken such
wide consultation ;-} but politely asking them to tell me why neither the
naturists using the beach or CCBN have been consulted.
In case you haven't yet written, it's Barry Davies, Maritime Officer,
Gwynedd Council, Ffordd y Cob, Pwllheli, Gwynedd, LL53 5AA.
Regards
Jon.
a.cameron
Roy Taylor
>
> --------------09B35B82B12EDE8E2D42096E
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> WHAT IS ALL THIS GARBAGE A WHILE AGO I GOT IN TOUCH ABOUT SWINGING NATURISM AND
> GOT MY HEAD BITTEN OFF, NOW A GUY VIDEOING NATURIST'S "MUST HAVE MADE HARDCORE
> PORN" WHAT WERE ALL THESE NATURISTS DOING SHAGGING ON THE BEACH? SHOCK HORROR!
> "NATURISTS DON'T DO THAT" WHAT A LOAD OF RUBBISH PENETRATION MAKES IT HARDCORE
> OTHERWISE POLICE CANNOT CALL IT ILLEGAL OR UNLESS A CRIME IS COMMITTED ON THE
> FILM AND THE PHOTGRAPHER IS AIDING AND ABETTING. HOWEVER THERE WAS ALWAYS
> TECHNICAL ASSAULT IF THE SUBJECTS OBJECTED BUT VERY THIN OFFENCE.......WHY ARE
> THERE SO MANY POMPOUS PEOPLE ON THIS LIST LETS FACE IT WHERE EVER THERES NUDITY
> THERE WILL ALWAYS BE ARSEHOLES WHO DO THIS PEEPING PHOTOGRAPHY WHAT EVER , NOT
> SAYING ITS RIGHT JUST STOP EXPECTING MIRACLES
When are you going to learn what the CAPS lock key is used for?
Roy
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Stop living at work and start working at living.
NOTE: Spam block in return email
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~