Will we see the Lynx back in the UK sooner?

[Bob Hobden]

Interesting reintroduction planned for some areas, I for one hope it goes
well as it has in other places.

http://www.lynxuk.org/


-- Regards
Bob Hobden
Posting to this Newsgroup
from the W.of London. UK

[Christina Websell]

"Bob Hobden" <Bo...@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:cqkuob...@mid.individual.net...

> Interesting reintroduction planned for some areas, I for one hope it goes
> well as it has in other places.
>
> http://www.lynxuk.org/
>
>

Not likely to affect you as you live in London. You'll be in favour of
reintroducing wolves next.
They died out for a reason. which is because the UK is now too
overpopulated and too small for them.

[Malcolm Ogilvie]

I disagree. The areas proposed have some of the lowest human
population densities in the UK as well as some of the highest deer
population densities.

[Larry Stoter]

I rather think persecution by people was mainly responsible for the
extinction of lynx in the UK.

As happened with Sea Eagles, Ospreys and Beavers, nearly happened with
Red Kites and is happening with Hen Harriers - given proper protection
and management, all of these species can survive in parts of the UK and
not just those with low population densities.

I would also welcome the reintroduction of the Lynx to the UK and
suspect it would spread well beyond low population density area.

And I would also like to see the reitroduction of wolves :-)

Larry

[David B]

"Malcolm Ogilvie" <MAOg...@indaal.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:<s2ibkala2htq81u82...@4ax.com>...

Where are the proposed areas?
I couldn't find anything on the website.
--
David B
http://mr2roc.org/

[Bob Hobden]

"David B" wrote
>
>"Malcolm Ogilvie" wrote
>> Christina Websell" wrote:
>> >"Bob Hobden" wrote

>> >> Interesting reintroduction planned for some areas, I for one hope it
>> >> goes
>> >> well as it has in other places.
>> >>
>> >> http://www.lynxuk.org/
>> >>
>> >>
>> >Not likely to affect you as you live in London. You'll be in favour of
>> >reintroducing wolves next.
>> >They died out for a reason. which is because the UK is now too
>> >overpopulated and too small for them.
>> >
>> I disagree. The areas proposed have some of the lowest human
>> population densities in the UK as well as some of the highest deer
>> population densities.
>
>Where are the proposed areas?
>I couldn't find anything on the website.
>

Looks like it's up Malcom's way mainly but also Wales and Northern
England....

http://www.wildlifearticles.co.uk/eurasian-lynx-reintroduction-in-the-uk/

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/aberdeenshire/562557/fears-for-aberdeenshire-livestock-as-lynx-reintroduction-plans-take-step-forward/

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/plans-bring-big-cats-back-5607787

http://mysterycats.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/uk-sightings-lynx-sightings-as-trust.html

But I've also hear Thetford Forest mentioned.

[Larry Stoter]

Interesting to compare the reactions here with that on uk.rec.gardening
where there was an outbreak of total hysteria at the idea ...

Larry

[Bob Hobden]

"Larry Stoter" wrote

>Interesting to compare the reactions here with that on uk.rec.gardening
>where there was an outbreak of total hysteria at the idea ...
>
>

Yes, whilst I expected some reservations I didn't expect that storm.
--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK

[Larry Stoter]

Not as though Lynx even eat roses or peas :-)

Larry

[Mike]

On Thu, 07 May 2015 06:13:16 +0100, Larry Stoter wrote:

> Not as though Lynx even eat roses or peas :-)
>
> Larry

But how big are their latrine pits? Or prey caches, for that matter...

Mike.

[Steve B]

In article <1m41fvo.qiyf9e5acp5cN%la...@666.com>, la...@666.com says...

OTOH deer might well do so. I've seen muntjac scoffing bramble ... and
they are becoming more common in semi-urban areas. I don't doubt that
they will become a serious nuisance to gardeners in the future,
especially during times of hard weather.

I sometimes hear them barking in the field behind my veg patch and have
already taken the precaution of blocking two points of possible ingress.

Steve

> Larry

[Bob Hobden]

"Steve B" wrote
>
>la...@666.com says...

I live in an urban area (although the nearest field is only about half a
mile away) but a neighbour has a muntjac that constantly appears in her
garden and has destroyed a panel of her 6ft fence with it's constant jumping
over. It appears to live in the back gardens of houses between two roads
moving from one garden to another depending on food available etc, neighbour
has an old large apple tree that seems to attract the deer when the fruit
falls.

[Christina Websell]

"Malcolm Ogilvie" <MAOg...@indaal.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:s2ibkala2htq81u82...@4ax.com...

Well let's have a hands up for lynxes being reintroduced here. My hand is
down.

[Malcolm Ogilvie]

On Tue, 19 May 2015 19:51:29 +0100, "Christina Websell"

<spam...@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote:

>
>"Malcolm Ogilvie" <MAOg...@indaal.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:s2ibkala2htq81u82...@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 3 May 2015 01:11:58 +0100, "Christina Websell"
>> <spam...@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Bob Hobden" <Bo...@invalid.com> wrote in message
>>>news:cqkuob...@mid.individual.net...
>>>> Interesting reintroduction planned for some areas, I for one hope it
>>>> goes
>>>> well as it has in other places.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.lynxuk.org/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Not likely to affect you as you live in London. You'll be in favour of
>>>reintroducing wolves next.
>>>They died out for a reason. which is because the UK is now too
>>>overpopulated and too small for them.
>>>
>> I disagree. The areas proposed have some of the lowest human
>> population densities in the UK as well as some of the highest deer
>> population densities.
>
>Well let's have a hands up for lynxes being reintroduced here. My hand is
>down.
>

Obviously, as you are letting emotion rule, as usual :-(

[Larry Stoter]

Why are you against the reintroduction of Lynx?

Larry

[David B]

"Malcolm Ogilvie" <MAOg...@indaal.demon.co.uk> wrote in message

news:<r6golal2758ovpl6b...@4ax.com>...

Well re-introducing another ex-native predator might have an effect on her
non-native farmed species.

[Mike]

Because they might attack the foxes; simples...

Mike.

[Larry Stoter]

I thought it might be because the Lynx would be dragging babies out of
their beds ...

Larry

[David B]

"Larry Stoter" <la...@666.com> wrote in message
news:<1m51dae.9680jw1snphzgN%la...@666.com>...

> > > Why are you against the reintroduction of Lynx?
> > >
> > > Larry
> >
> > Because they might attack the foxes; simples...
> >
> > Mike.
>
> I thought it might be because the Lynx would be dragging babies out of
> their beds ...
>

We all know that C's objection to foxes isn't really anything to do with
babies, it's to do with keeping non-native animals safely in captivity.

[Christina Websell]

"Larry Stoter" <la...@666.com> wrote in message

news:1m4ptmm.l02g1osf6csN%la...@666.com...

Think about sheep. It would be nice if they confined themselves to eating
deer. They won't.
I can envisage them being a perfect nuisance for sheep farmers and anyone
who has poultry anywhere near their introduction.

[Christina Websell]

"Mike" <ne...@mjcoon.plus.com> wrote in message
news:KfWdnTm-bt_srvnI...@brightview.co.uk...

??

[Christina Websell]

"David B" <askfo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:mk24o7$1th$1...@dont-email.me...

> --Best not start me

>

[Malcolm Ogilvie]

On Thu, 4 Jun 2015 22:49:27 +0100, "Christina Websell"

Lynx live mainly in forests or heavily wooded areas, sheep don't.

[Larry Stoter]

I would accept they will cause occassionally problems for sheep
(especially sheep living in forests), as with White-tailed Eagles in
Scotland which is dealt with by a compensation system. It's hardly going
to be a case of 1,000s of sheep being attacked across the country.

In any case, if you are worried about sheep, I would have thought the
biggest problem of animal attacks was from dogs.

If you are going to complain about the reintroduction of Lynx on the
basis of the damage they'll do to sheep, then you also need to be
campaigning for much tighter controls on dogs which, incidentally, do
kill children and babies.

I for one would happily support tight regulation and restriction of dog
ownership, breeding and sales.

Might be more of an issue with poultry but again, I doubt it would have
a significant impact compared with the existing hazards.

All of these issues can be assessed properly from existing
reintroductions elsewhere in Europe and the initial reintroductions in
the UK which would include, no doubt that released animals be fitted
with wireless tracking devices.

Larry

[Christina Websell]

"Malcolm Ogilvie" <MAOg...@indaal.demon.co.uk> wrote in message

news:k1g2nad597m45thpo...@4ax.com...

It's a ridiculous idea.

[Malcolm Ogilvie]

On Sun, 7 Jun 2015 20:23:35 +0100, "Christina Websell"

No, it isn't. Anymore than someone who has foxes killed because they eat their chickens.

[Christina Websell]

"Malcolm Ogilvie" <MAOg...@indaal.demon.co.uk> wrote in message

news:2la9nat2uks21m4in...@4ax.com...

Says someone who doesn't have that problem.
Let's be clear that I realised it was pointless and put my birds into Fort
Knox huts and runs. My whole breeding programme was wiped out by a daytime
fox and I admit it was revenge. I wish you'd have seen it yourself. Heads
off all my birds and still killing when I got home from work at 5 pm. It
looked back at me, before running off.
I was devastated. One of my cockerels had tried to protect his hens and he
died overnight, he was a mass of bruise.
So I took exception to it. I got foxman in. I would do it again in the
same circumstances.
I was always careful about making sure my chickens were shut up at dusk. but
if the foxes come in the day and kill them, well they deserve all they get
which is a bullet in the ear.
It's not like I don't like foxes but if they go after my chickens in the
day, it's a bad idea.
If the chickens are not shut up at night and a fox gets them, it's your own
fault. If they come in the day, it's the foxes own fault if they get shot.

[Christina Websell]

"Larry Stoter" <la...@666.com> wrote in message

news:1m5j97e.1rnx54kqvnef0N%la...@666.com...

Let's not go there.

>
> I for one would happily support tight regulation and restriction of dog
> ownership, breeding and sales.

I agree.

>
> Might be more of an issue with poultry but again, I doubt it would have
> a significant impact compared with the existing hazards.
>
> All of these issues can be assessed properly from existing
> reintroductions elsewhere in Europe and the initial reintroductions in
> the UK which would include, no doubt that released animals be fitted
> with wireless tracking devices.
>
> Larry

I don't want them.

[Christina Websell]

"Larry Stoter" <la...@666.com> wrote in message

news:1m3u771.1qudpsz1wrmdmeN%la...@666.com...

You are mad ;-)

[Malcolm Ogilvie]

On Sun, 14 Jun 2015 19:03:52 +0100, "Christina Websell"

Do stop anthropomorphising. It is your prejudices that result in them getting shot not
their "fault".

[Larry Stoter]

Many (most?) animals, including humans, have never evolved and instinct
to eat only what they need - because in the natural world, there is
rarely a surfeit of food. I think this is especially true of predators,
whose natural instinct is to kill their prey.

Provide animals with an almost unlimited supply of food and their
instinct is just to keep going.

Shut up a large number of prey animals and when a predator gets in, the
natural instinct is to kill the lot.

Your chickens would probably be safer roaming naturally through
grassland & scrub where there is lots of space and places for them to
roost off the ground.

It is as much, maybe more, your "fault" for penning up the chickens as
it is the foxes fault for following its natural instincts when presented
with a large number of prey animals which can't escape ...

Larry

[Asha Santon]

I would very much like to see native species which have been persecuted
out of existence reintroduced.
Many species happily compete with each other but humans prefer to think
that 'compete' means kill everything in sight.
A lynx or a wolf may well kill a sheep or two. They will also help
control deer numbers so no more need to cull them. Controlling deer
helps young trees survive. Birds of prey may eat a few salmon. Beavers
may interfere with the habits of people who like to go fishing.
All of these things are the way of nature and should be encouraged.

When I have said things of this type before, others have said 'have you
ever seen what a fox will do to chickens?' and the obvious reply is
'have you ever seen what humans do to chickens and turkeys when they
breed them for food?'
I have. Frankly, the fox has much better excuse.

--
Asha Santon
Debian 8.1 and OSX
Two coins on the same side

[Christina Websell]

"Malcolm Ogilvie" <MAOg...@indaal.demon.co.uk> wrote in message

> Do stop anthropomorphising. It is your prejudices that result in them
> getting shot not
> their "fault".

I am not anthropomorphising. Where I live there is a huge fox problem
(which you don't have) and I'm afraid I took exception to having my chickens
killed during the day.

I have no particular prejudice against foxes until they kill my chickens
and then try to break into my huts overnight - then I get cross.
There's a field full of rabbits at the bottom of my garden.

[MJC]

In article <d1i0uo...@mid.individual.net>,
spam...@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk says...

> There's a field full of rabbits at the bottom of my garden.

There's your solution: round up the rabbits and put them in enclosures
so they are even easier to catch than chickens!

Mike.

[Malcolm Ogilvie]

On Sat, 25 Jul 2015 18:56:35 +0100, "Christina Websell"
<spam...@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote:

>
>"Malcolm Ogilvie" <MAOg...@indaal.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>
>> Do stop anthropomorphising. It is your prejudices that result in them
>> getting shot not
>> their "fault".
>
>I am not anthropomorphising.

Of course you are. This phrase:

"My whole breeding programme was wiped out by a daytime
fox and I admit it was revenge."

is anthropomorphising, projecting your human emotions on to a fox. Foxes kill for food,
not to "revenge" themselves on humans. That's ridiculous nonsense.

[Michael Bell]

In message <MPG.301e020c3...@news.plus.net>

I was astonished to read in "Farmer's weekly" that grey squirrels had
been elminated from Anglsey, as the EU encourages you to do with alien
invasive species. And the next target for elimination from Anglesey is
the fox, which was a deliberate introduction in the 1970s and because
it was introduced that way it also can be eliminated under EU rules.
How about that?

Michael Bell


--

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[MJC]

In article <b59b48f054....@michael.beaverbell.co.uk>,
mic...@beaverbell.co.uk says...
> ... And the next target for elimination from Anglesey is

> the fox, which was a deliberate introduction in the 1970s and because
> it was introduced that way it also can be eliminated under EU rules.
> How about that?
>
> Michael Bell

I hope that argument would only be valid if it can also be shown that
foxes were never present before 1970. Otherwise one elimination will
always justify the next elimination.

Mike.

[Michael J Davis]

MJC <gra...@mjcoon.plus.com> was inspired to say

>In article <b59b48f054....@michael.beaverbell.co.uk>,
>mic...@beaverbell.co.uk says...
>> ... And the next target for elimination from Anglesey is
>> the fox, which was a deliberate introduction in the 1970s and because
>> it was introduced that way it also can be eliminated under EU rules.
>> How about that?
>

>I hope that argument would only be valid if it can also be shown that
>foxes were never present before 1970. Otherwise one elimination will
>always justify the next elimination.

I don't believe there were any humans in Anglesey during the last ice
age....

Mike

--
Michael J Davis
<><

[Malcolm Ogilvie]

Completely irrelevant!

A "native" species is one which found its way here *since* the last ice age.

[MJC]

In article <NycW7CEx...@trustsof.co.uk>, mjdu...@trustsof.co.uk
says...

>
> I don't believe there were any humans in Anglesey during the last ice
> age....
>
> Mike

Are there any there now?

Mike.

[Christina Websell]

"Malcolm Ogilvie" <MAOg...@indaal.demon.co.uk> wrote in message

news:r6golal2758ovpl6b...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 19 May 2015 19:51:29 +0100, "Christina Websell"

> <spam...@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Malcolm Ogilvie" <MAOg...@indaal.demon.co.uk> wrote in message

>>news:s2ibkala2htq81u82...@4ax.com...

>>> On Sun, 3 May 2015 01:11:58 +0100, "Christina Websell"
>>> <spam...@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Bob Hobden" <Bo...@invalid.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:cqkuob...@mid.individual.net...
>>>>> Interesting reintroduction planned for some areas, I for one hope it
>>>>> goes
>>>>> well as it has in other places.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.lynxuk.org/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>Not likely to affect you as you live in London. You'll be in favour of
>>>>reintroducing wolves next.
>>>>They died out for a reason. which is because the UK is now too
>>>>overpopulated and too small for them.
>>>>

>>> I disagree. The areas proposed have some of the lowest human
>>> population densities in the UK as well as some of the highest deer
>>> population densities.
>>
>>Well let's have a hands up for lynxes being reintroduced here. My hand is
>>down.
>>

> Obviously, as you are letting emotion rule, as usual :-(

says someone safe on an island where you won't get them yourself
It's a ridiculous idea. Didnt see any hands up for lynxes being
reintroduced to the UK. Because it's a bad idea.
there isn't room for them except maybe in the wilds of Scotland.. but then
they will be after the sheep. So let's say no.
We can't do "once upon a time centuries ago, we had lynxes, wolves etc" and
get those times back. There is no place for them here now.

[Christina Websell]

"Asha Santon" <as...@santon.invalid> wrote in message
news:mlut9l$t7u$1...@dont-email.me...

You live in London, or the south.

[Christina Websell]

"Malcolm Ogilvie" <MAOg...@indaal.demon.co.uk> wrote in message

news:3nf9ratevmaj72vso...@4ax.com...

It was me who did the revenge. I don't I ever said otherwise. If foxes
attack my chickens, they get a bullet in the ear. If they don't i am quite
happy for them to pass through my garden on their way to somewhere else.
I wouldn't mind so much if there wasn't a field full of rabbits at the end
of my garden. which are harder to catch, I suppose. Much easier to go
after chickens. I'm afraid that is not allowed. I now have to keep my
chickens in a Fort Knox situation.

[Malcolm Ogilvie]

On Wed, 28 Oct 2015 21:30:29 -0000, "Christina Websell"

You can't have looked if you didn't see any hands up. And it is only your opinion that it
is "a bad idea".

Wolves eat lynx so we should have them both back!

[Malcolm Ogilvie]

I would have thought this thread had been finished back in August. Why resurrect it months
later?

[Bob Hobden]

"Christina Websell" wrote

>
>
>says someone safe on an island where you won't get them yourself
>It's a ridiculous idea. Didnt see any hands up for lynxes being
>reintroduced to the UK. Because it's a bad idea.
>there isn't room for them except maybe in the wilds of Scotland.. but then
>they will be after the sheep. So let's say no.
>We can't do "once upon a time centuries ago, we had lynxes, wolves etc" and
>get those times back. There is no place for them here now.
>
>

Perhaps you ought to do some research on the facts instead of relying on
your natural bias against them.

A quick look at Google Earth will show you there is lots of room for them
all over this country. There predation on agricultural animals is minimal
and far outweighed by their benefit to the arable farmer as their main prey
is deer. They are also forest animals and are rarely seen in open country,
they avoid humans. These are some of the facts.

--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK

[Larry Stoter]

Mine was up as well :-)

I believe Thetford Forest was mentioned as a possible reintroduction
site. At 47,000 hectares, on of the largest lowland forests in England,
in Suffolk and Norfolk.

With relatively small numbers of domestic livestock and lots of deer, it
seems to me an ideal area for lynx.

Larry

[Asha Santon]

I live in Scotland, in the north-east. I live in 'the country'.
I live in one of the areas under consideration for the reintroduction of lynx.
The reason we have to cull deer is because we killed all their predators.
I am not frightened of other species and do not see the need to destroy
everything which competes with me. Other species manage to compete with
each other while humans just kill everything.

Don't make assumptions based on no evidence.

--
AS
http://nature.opcop.org.uk
I knew the Triffids were real when I saw the signs
Caution: Heavy plant crossing

[Malcolm Ogilvie]

But that's what she so often does :-(

[Christina Websell]

"Larry Stoter" <la...@666.com> wrote in message

news:1md1llz.5areluz46kyN%la...@666.com...

It's totally ridiculous. The UK is not the same place as it was centuries
ago and if the deer need be culled it's a gun, rather than silly ideas about
reintroducing wolves and lynxes.

[Malcolm Ogilvie]

On Mon, 30 Nov 2015 20:38:54 -0000, "Christina Websell"
<spam...@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote:

>
>"Larry Stoter" <la...@666.com> wrote in message
>news:1md1llz.5areluz46kyN%la...@666.com...


>>

>> With relatively small numbers of domestic livestock and lots of deer, it
>> seems to me an ideal area for lynx.
>>
>> Larry
>
>It's totally ridiculous. The UK is not the same place as it was centuries
>ago and if the deer need be culled it's a gun, rather than silly ideas about
>reintroducing wolves and lynxes.
>

Could I ask why you have waited a whole month to repeat your opposition to the
reintroduction of the Lynx? The intervening weeks haven't made it any more rational or
less emotional.

[MJC]

In article <phkq5b18iqhe08mua...@4ax.com>,
MAOg...@indaal.demon.co.uk says...

Monthly emotions? ;-)

Mike.

[Paul Rooney]

On 03/05/2015 05:43, Bob Hobden wrote:
> Interesting reintroduction planned for some areas, I for one hope it
> goes well as it has in other places.

What does "I for one" mean in your area?


How big is your 'area'?

Are you just trying to annoy our resident chicken owner?

Happy Christmas!


PS. My area is bigger and wider than yours, and has a huge girth.