Fucking cunting useless wanking shite Datatool fucking alarms.
Lozzo
when I see a bike fitted with one in my workshop. I always get the urge
to rip the fucking things out and smash them to bits with a cunting
great 4lb lump hammer and tonight has only served to lift that hatred
to new levels.
For a couple of weeks or so my housemate and I have been helping our
old friend Darren rebuild his heavily crashed ZX6R. It's nearly all
done and we've had it fired up. The alarm has been auto-setting and
disarming on cue without any problems, but there have been a couple of
weird electrical problems we've had real trouble diagnosing - one with
the front left indicator and another with the headlight/sidelight.
Tonight I went right over the wiring diagram for about the hundredth
time and decided I was going to snip the feed wires from the alarm into
the indicators at the back. Lo and behold everything started working
fine and as they should. Ten minutes later and the alarm is all removed
and sitting on the floor being pummelled to bits by my housemate. All
three of us have spent countless hours over the last going up and down
the wiring loom with a multi-meter checking this and that, borrowing
multi-function relays etc trying to see what's wrong.
What appeared to be a well fitted alarm turned out to be a very badly
fitted alarm that had gone faulty at about the same time as the crash,
which has really confused us. The wiring from the alarm didn't involve
any cut cables in the original loom, he'd simply tapped into certain
wires and soldered a connection. Removing it took all of 30 seconds cos
I just followed the alarm wires into the loom and snipped them out then
re-insulated and loomed up the original wiring - easy as that.
Now we can get on with rebuilding the ZX properly.
--
Lozzo
Versys 650 Inter-Continental Hyperbolistic Missile , CBR600F-W racebike
in the making, TS250C, RD400F (somewhere)
BMW E46 318iSE (it's a car, not one of those 2-wheeled pieces of shite
they churn out)
The Older Gentleman
> I fucking hate them, I cannot describe the feelings of hatred I get
> when I see a bike fitted with one in my workshop.
<snip>
From Singapore, where it's presently about 9.20am, I see you posted this
about 2am UK local.
Has it kept you up all night?
(Interesting to note the other insomniacs, too)
--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Triumph Street Triple Honda CB400F
Suzuki TS250 Suzuki GN250 chateaudotmurrayatidnetdotcom
Nothing damages a machine more than an ignoramus with a manual, a
can-do attitude and a set of cheap tools
Lozzo
> Lozzo <lo...@lozzo.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > I fucking hate them, I cannot describe the feelings of hatred I get
> > when I see a bike fitted with one in my workshop.
>
> <snip>
>
> From Singapore, where it's presently about 9.20am, I see you posted
> this about 2am UK local.
>
> Has it kept you up all night?
>
> (Interesting to note the other insomniacs, too)
I'm on wind down before I go to sleep, but we didn't get in from the
garage until about 12.30am after being out there from around 6.30
yesterday evening trying to figure this out. I can't sleep when I'm
wound up about something, so I have to chill out before getting into
bed. Typing that up got it off my chest and helped me relax.
The Older Gentleman
> > Has it kept you up all night?
> >
>
> I'm on wind down before I go to sleep, but we didn't get in from the
> garage until about 12.30am after being out there from around 6.30
> yesterday evening trying to figure this out. I can't sleep when I'm
> wound up about something, so I have to chill out before getting into
> bed. Typing that up got it off my chest and helped me relax.
I'd have just ripped out the alarm before trying anything else. Like
you, I hate all bastard alarms and immobilisers and I seriously question
whether, as an anti-theft device, they're that much better than a top
quality lock and chain.
As for the 'discounts' offered on your insurance for fitting them: don't
make me laugh.
Pip
Older Gentleman says...
> (Interesting to note the other insomniacs, too)
Continuous monitoring, innit.
--
Pip: Keeper of the Cable Ties
AW
> whether, as an anti-theft device, they're that much better than a top
> quality lock and chain.
>
My 06 Z1000 came with one fitted and it was an autoset datatool - set
itself 45 seconds after the ignition was switched off. Filling up at
a fuel station opposite a TV transmitter I found the alarm wouldn't
respond to the fob so I pushed the bike along the road to the corner
where the road goes downhill and then freewheeled far enough for the
fob to work. All sat school run time with the aalarm blaring. No one
took a blind bit of notice so, no, alarms don't have any deterrent
effect. Their only value is to alert the owner to tampering, if he or
she happens to be in earshot.
The Older Gentleman
>
> Blaming the alarm when it's been 'very badly fitted' to a bike that's
> been 'heavily crashed' hardly seems fair.
Maybe so, but the bastard things *always* seem to go wrong at the worst
time, they *never* seem to have the rock-solid reliability of car
systems. I will agree that the factory-fit ones that plug straight intio
the loom, like Triumph's, may be different.
And (crucially) modern motorcycle batteries simply don't have the oomph
to let them run for more than a few weeks without flattening.
I know I can leave my car for months without using it, and it will start
perfectly, but bike alarms seem to flatten batteries in a matter of
weeks. It's not necessarily their fault: these diddy little batteries
that they fit these days, to save weight, simply don't seem to deliver
the amp/hours.
And bike alarms all seem to come with cruddy crappy little fobs that
look they ought to be controlling a £4.99 Asda remote-controlled puppy.
There's no sign of any quality.
The Older Gentleman
> An oft made claim, but complete bollocks.
The bod in our office who lost his Triumph Daytona recently wouldn't
think so. The thieves just pushed it, alarm shrieking, past the windows
of the downstairs offices and away. Nobody batted an eyelid.
AW
> > she happens to be in earshot.
>
>
The empirical evidence doesn't seem to suggest this conclusion. :-)
AW
>
> See reply to TOG. In your particular case, all people would've seen is
> someone riding a bike with the alarm going off. Their conclusion?
> Either it's the owner & the alarm's fucked, or it's some completely
> brazen thief who's not to be messed with
That seems a fair definition of "ineffective" ..... fair point that
you can't tell how many it does put off though.
Beav
"Krusty" <dontw...@nowhere.invalid> wrote in message
news:irie8t$oad$1...@dont-email.me...
> someone riding a bike with the alarm going off. Their conclusion?
> Either it's the owner & the alarm's fucked, or it's some completely
I'm willing to bet that most people on hearing an alarm simply think "For
fucks sake, turn that noise off" before going back to what they were doing.
I've heard many alarms and yet I've never seen a single incidence of anyone
doing anything about it.
As a point of interest, I removed the alarm from my bike for exactly the
same reason as AW removed his and I removed the alarm off my brothers B12
for the same reason as Lozzo. (cunting DataTOOL thing) Brother parked his
B12 up and said it was misfiring and when I serviced it and attempted to
crank it.... fuck all. The alarm wouldn't release the immobilizer no matter
what was tried. Getting the thing off did though.
They're more trouble than they're worth.
--
Beav
ogden
> Lozzo wrote:
>
> > I fucking hate them, I cannot describe the feelings of hatred I get
> > when I see a bike fitted with one in my workshop. I always get the
> > urge to rip the fucking things out and smash them to bits with a
> > cunting great 4lb lump hammer and tonight has only served to lift
> > that hatred to new levels.
> >
> > For a couple of weeks or so my housemate and I have been helping our
> > old friend Darren rebuild his heavily crashed ZX6R.
> >
> > time and decided I was going to snip the feed wires from the alarm
> > into the indicators at the back. Lo and behold everything started
> > working fine and as they should.
> >
> > fitted alarm that had gone faulty at about the same time as the crash,
> > which has really confused us.
>
> wanking shite Kawasaki fucking handlebars because they get bent in a
> crash?
>
> Blaming the alarm when it's been 'very badly fitted' to a bike that's
> been 'heavily crashed' hardly seems fair.
I hated the Datatool on my 750, not because it malfunctioned and caused
technical problems but because it seemed to be designed to do nothing
but irritate. The Meta on my thou, otoh, I'm perfectly happy with
because they haven't made any fucking stupid decisions when deciding how
it'll work.
For that simple reason, I'll never buy a Datatool but would happily buy
a Meta.
--
ogden
gsxr1000 - the gentleman's sports-tourer
ktm duke - the practical cross-town commuter
The Older Gentleman
Yup, agreed on both counts.
Thre again, you can't tell how many thieves a well-placed and stout
chain puts off.
The Older Gentleman
> Because they remove the weak link - the idiot fitting them. MVs are a
> prime example - don't follow the instructions & you end up with a loom
> full of water, which keeps blowing the main 40A fuse. Everyone blamed
> Datatool for that when it started happening, but it wasn't the alarm,
> it was the fitter not putting the loom back in the right position with
> the all important drain hole pointing downwards.
You're right about the weak link being the fitter.
OTOH, I'm amused about an Italian company fitting a drain hole to their
wiring loom, FFS. Everyone else seems to take care to ensure that the
things don't fill up with water in the first place.
Reminds me of The Doctor's Fiat X1/9 manual, which told you where to
find and how to use the cranking handle to wind down the electric
windows when[1] the mechanism failed.
[1] Not 'if'
Lozzo
> Lozzo <lo...@lozzo.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > > Has it kept you up all night?
> > >
> >
> > I'm on wind down before I go to sleep, but we didn't get in from the
> > garage until about 12.30am after being out there from around 6.30
> > yesterday evening trying to figure this out. I can't sleep when I'm
> > wound up about something, so I have to chill out before getting into
> > bed. Typing that up got it off my chest and helped me relax.
>
> I'd have just ripped out the alarm before trying anything else. Like
> you, I hate all bastard alarms and immobilisers and I seriously
> question whether, as an anti-theft device, they're that much better
> than a top quality lock and chain.
It's not my bike and the owner wanted the alarm left on the bike. I
haven't a clue why because he's selling the bloody thing as soon as
it's rebuilt.
Lozzo
> I understand you're frustrated, but srsly? Do you hate cunting useless
> wanking shite Kawasaki fucking handlebars because they get bent in a
> crash?
>
> Blaming the alarm when it's been 'very badly fitted' to a bike that's
> been 'heavily crashed' hardly seems fair.
The fact it was badly fitted hadn't contributed to the problem at all.
It was wired in to a few places with properly made joints, but he'd
left out more than half of what he should have done - that is what I
was refering to when I said badly fitted. The fact it was screwing up
the electrics was an electronics thing inside the box, not the hard
wiring into the loom.
AW
>
> In that particular case, sure. But compare with an opportunist scrote
> getting blasted with 115dB whilst trying to break the steering lock in
> a quiet residential street late at night. Most people may still ignore
> it, but the scrote ain't gonna hang around to find out.
>
Not so sure on that. I had a problem unsetting the alarm when the
battery went flat on holiday and I spent some time fiddling in the
garage one evening after charging the battery and the alarm deciding
it was being tampered with and then discovering the fob was faulty as
well. Ear plugs and a load of rags over the alarm body solved the
noise issue for me and none of the neighbours in our quiet suburban
street bothered to see what was hapening. If I'd have been a scrote
I'd maybe have backed off to monitor any reaction and then gone back
when satisfied it was all clear. I'm not convinced the alarm would
have stopped anyone.
Lozzo
> See reply to TOG. In your particular case, all people would've seen is
> someone riding a bike with the alarm going off. Their conclusion?
> Either it's the owner & the alarm's fucked, or it's some completely
> brazen thief who's not to be messed with.
I find it interesting that only one person in this thread is in favour
of alarm systems being fitted. Go to any bike forum or anywhere else
bike related on the net and you'd be hard pushed to find one in a
thousand.
When people come into our shop to buy a bike and specify an alarm we
always without fail talk them out of it. We may lose money on the alarm
sale but we save grief for us and the customer. We sell them a hefty
lock and a ground anchor instead.
Kevin
>I find it interesting that only one person in this thread is in favour
>of alarm systems being fitted. Go to any bike forum or anywhere else
>bike related on the net and you'd be hard pushed to find one in a
>thousand.
We have Meta alarms fitted to all of our bikes except those that came
with a factory-fitted security system. The primary reason is insurance
but I'm happy to accept they may have some deterrent effect.
I loathe Datatool alarms with a passion for the same reason as Ogden
but I've never had a problem with a Meta.
Kevin
--
'10 1400GTR,'08 R1200GS,'07 K8 Hayabusa,'05 FJR, '02 Dyna Super Glide,'90 FJ12
The Older Gentleman
<snip>
Last theft was a bike I left unlocked in 1978.
That said, I think most thieves would turn their noses up at the
Chateau's stable.
CT
> Krusty <dontw...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> Last theft was a bike I left unlocked in 1978.
>
> That said, I think most thieves would turn their noses up at the
> Chateau's stable.
from the Sutton & Carshalton Advertiser:
"Theft from Sutton garage - police on the lookout for thieves with no
taste"
--
Chris
Hog.
> On 25 May 2011 10:28:18 GMT, "Lozzo" <lo...@lozzo.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> I find it interesting that only one person in this thread is in
>> favour of alarm systems being fitted. Go to any bike forum or
>> anywhere else bike related on the net and you'd be hard pushed to
>> find one in a thousand.
>
> We have Meta alarms fitted to all of our bikes except those that came
> with a factory-fitted security system. The primary reason is insurance
> but I'm happy to accept they may have some deterrent effect.
>
> I loathe Datatool alarms with a passion for the same reason as Ogden
> but I've never had a problem with a Meta.
I just won't have the fskin things. I rip them out at the 1st opportunity.
Especially the auto arming and the immobiliser types. The auto arming thing
while fuelling, having removed the ignition key for the fuel cap, is more
annoying than a Metformin shit blast. I'm talking bigger than this
www.metalsucks.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Big-Poop.jpg
OTOH if you want a nice simple loud controllable user selectable alarm -
www.xenasecurity.com/product/motorbikes/alarm/XNSeries/XN18/page1
--
Hog
Hog.
> Hog. wrote:
>
>> Kevin wrote:
>>>
>>> I loathe Datatool alarms with a passion for the same reason as Ogden
>>> but I've never had a problem with a Meta.
>>
>> I just won't have the fskin things. I rip them out at the 1st
>> opportunity. Especially the auto arming and the immobiliser types.
>> The auto arming thing while fuelling, having removed the ignition key
>> for the fuel cap, is more annoying than a Metformin shit blast. I'm
>> talking bigger than this
>> www.metalsucks.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Big-Poop.jpg
>>
>> OTOH if you want a nice simple loud controllable user selectable
>> alarm -
>> www.xenasecurity.com/product/motorbikes/alarm/XNSeries/XN18/page1
>
> kept going off for no reason, no matter what angle I fitted it.
I have read about said problem
--
Hog
ogden
>
> Kevin wrote:
> > On 25 May 2011 10:28:18 GMT, "Lozzo" <lo...@lozzo.org.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> I find it interesting that only one person in this thread is in
> >> favour of alarm systems being fitted. Go to any bike forum or
> >> anywhere else bike related on the net and you'd be hard pushed to
> >> find one in a thousand.
> >
> > We have Meta alarms fitted to all of our bikes except those that came
> > with a factory-fitted security system. The primary reason is insurance
> > but I'm happy to accept they may have some deterrent effect.
> >
> > I loathe Datatool alarms with a passion for the same reason as Ogden
> > but I've never had a problem with a Meta.
>
> I just won't have the fskin things. I rip them out at the 1st opportunity.
> Especially the auto arming and the immobiliser types. The auto arming thing
> while fuelling, having removed the ignition key for the fuel cap, is more
> annoying than a Metformin shit blast.
That's one of the things that fucked me off about the Datatool I had.
The Meta I've got now only arms the immobiliser after 30 seconds, not
the alarm. A simple difference, but removes 90% of the irritation.
Grimly Curmudgeon
drugs began to take hold. I remember totallyde...@yahoo.co.uk (The
Older Gentleman) saying something like:
>Thre again, you can't tell how many thieves a well-placed and stout
>chain
smacked around their head
> puts off.
Agreed.
Adie
<beavis....@ntlwoxorld.com> wrote:
>
>"Krusty" <dontw...@nowhere.invalid> wrote in message
>news:irie8t$oad$1...@dont-email.me...
>> AW wrote:
>>
>>> > > Their only value is to alert the owner to tampering, if he or
>>> > > she happens to be in earshot.
>>> >
>>> > An oft made claim, but complete bollocks.
>>> >
>>>
>>> The empirical evidence doesn't seem to suggest this conclusion. :-)
>>
>> See reply to TOG. In your particular case, all people would've seen is
>> someone riding a bike with the alarm going off. Their conclusion?
>> Either it's the owner & the alarm's fucked, or it's some completely
>> brazen thief who's not to be messed with.
>
>I'm willing to bet that most people on hearing an alarm simply think "For
>fucks sake, turn that noise off" before going back to what they were doing.
I did exactly that. however, the alarm in question was because I'd
left the bike on the drive, switched on and forgotten about it.
The alarm obviously goes off when the battery drains....two hours
later. how long it had been going off before I noticed I don't know.
>I've heard many alarms and yet I've never seen a single incidence of anyone
>doing anything about it.
When a neighbours house alarm went out several of us went to
investigate.
--
Adie (replace spam with nickname to reply)
YZF-R1 : FZ1N : RD350LC
(anyone would think I was partial to Yamahas)
MRO#11 BOTAFOF#7 BOTAFOT#130 DIAABTCOD#17 MIB#24 YTC#16
BOB#15 ex-UKRMMA#22 BOMB#11
steve auvache
Older Gentleman) wrote:
>AW <andre...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> >
>> > See reply to TOG. In your particular case, all people would've seen is
>> > someone riding a bike with the alarm going off. Their conclusion?
>> > Either it's the owner & the alarm's fucked, or it's some completely
>> > brazen thief who's not to be messed with
>>
>> That seems a fair definition of "ineffective" ..... fair point that
>> you can't tell how many it does put off though.
>
>Yup, agreed on both counts.
>
>Thre again, you can't tell how many thieves a well-placed and stout
>chain puts off.
Assuming my recent experience is typical then the answer is absolutely
zero.
--
steve auvache
Pip Luscher
>That's one of the things that fucked me off about the Datatool I had.
>The Meta I've got now only arms the immobiliser after 30 seconds, not
>the alarm. A simple difference, but removes 90% of the irritation.
I've had a bike with Meta and, despite my dislike of
alarm/immobilizers, I have to say that the Meta was pretty unobtrusive
and user-friendly.
--
-Pip
Pip Luscher
(The Older Gentleman) wrote:
>I'd have just ripped out the alarm before trying anything else. Like
>you, I hate all bastard alarms and immobilisers and I seriously question
>whether, as an anti-theft device, they're that much better than a top
>quality lock and chain.
I still think that a proper steering lock is the best compromise: it's
always fitted, doesn't weigh much and needs no luggage or straps to
carry it. Also, it can't bugger up the electrics or flatten the
battery,
Not only that but you'd struggle to forget it was locked and try to
ride away. Not that I've ever written off a brake disc or wrenched a
spoke that way. No siree.
By 'proper' I don't mean a bit of steel tack-welded with pigeon-shit
welds to the outside of the head stock, with a cast-zinc lock body
acting as the other fixing: I mean a proper splined dog-clutch,
possibly with a small cush-drive to absorb hammer blows, built into
the head stock where it would be hard to tamper with.
You wouldn't be able to ride the bike away with such a lock fitted and
you wouldn't easily wheel it away, either.
By making the lock easy to use, it's much more likely to actually
/get/ used: not everyone bothers to chain up their bike when, say,
popping into town.
The sort of serious thief who bundles a bike into a van is also going
to be able to grab a bike that's immobilized, alarmed, disc-locked or
chained.
Sure, chaining the bike to an immovable object would be better, but,
let's face it, most of us don't when we're out and about, even when we
carry a chain, if only because there are few things to conveniently
chain a bike to.
For those who have to leave their bike parked outside, well,
condolences. A decent chain and anchor is best; I suppose one could
leave a really heavy chain locked at the usual parking place and just
use a lighter portable lock when out and about.
--
-Pip
steve robinson
> On Wed, 25 May 2011 03:10:50 +0100, totallyde...@yahoo.co.uk
> (The Older Gentleman) wrote:
>
> > I'd have just ripped out the alarm before trying anything else.
> > Like you, I hate all bastard alarms and immobilisers and I
> > seriously question whether, as an anti-theft device, they're that
> > much better than a top quality lock and chain.
>
> I still think that a proper steering lock is the best compromise:
> it's always fitted, doesn't weigh much and needs no luggage or
> straps to carry it. Also, it can't bugger up the electrics or
> flatten the battery,
>
> Not only that but you'd struggle to forget it was locked and try to
> ride away. Not that I've ever written off a brake disc or wrenched a
> spoke that way. No siree.
>
> By 'proper' I don't mean a bit of steel tack-welded with
> pigeon-shit welds to the outside of the head stock, with a
> cast-zinc lock body acting as the other fixing: I mean a proper
> splined dog-clutch, possibly with a small cush-drive to absorb
> hammer blows, built into the head stock where it would be hard to
> tamper with.
>
> You wouldn't be able to ride the bike away with such a lock fitted
> and you wouldn't easily wheel it away, either.
>
> By making the lock easy to use, it's much more likely to actually
> get used: not everyone bothers to chain up their bike when, say,
> popping into town.
>
> The sort of serious thief who bundles a bike into a van is also
> going to be able to grab a bike that's immobilized, alarmed,
> disc-locked or chained.
>
> Sure, chaining the bike to an immovable object would be better,
> but, let's face it, most of us don't when we're out and about, even
> when we carry a chain, if only because there are few things to
> conveniently chain a bike to.
>
> For those who have to leave their bike parked outside, well,
> condolences. A decent chain and anchor is best; I suppose one could
> leave a really heavy chain locked at the usual parking place and
> just use a lighter portable lock when out and about.
Must admit i have had several data tool alarms and never had a
problem with them
ogden
It just does the job. Goes off when the bike's disturbed, stays out of
the way the rest of the time.
Alex Ferrier
>
> Krusty wrote:
> >
> > Blaming the alarm when it's been 'very badly fitted' to a bike that's
> > been 'heavily crashed' hardly seems fair.
> >
>
> time, they *never* seem to have the rock-solid reliability of car
> systems.
>
Yup. The Datatool Veto fitted to my RGS waited until I was sat on a
park bench in Lyon in some of the most torrential rain I've ever seen.
I'd stopped to pick out a decent hotel from my Michelin book.
Hotel found, I returned to the bike and... zip. nada. sweet FA.
It took me about six hours to get some froggy mechanic to come
out and disable the fucker. By which time I was knackered, soaked
through and very pissed off.
To cap it all, as it was about 9pm the room I'd sorted had gone
(some sort of festival weekend and the town was jammed) and all
I could find was some shitty little hotel next to the station. The
room reminded me of the 'worst toilet in Scotland' from
Trainspotting.
I slept fully clothed in wet leathers that night, trying not to touch
anything in the room if I could help it.
Datatool. Never a-fucking-gain.
--
Alex
The Older Gentleman
steve auvache
<plus...@live.invalid.co.uk> wrote:
>You wouldn't be able to ride the bike away with such a lock fitted and
>you wouldn't easily wheel it away, either.
I have, over the years, learnt more about bike theft than I care but I
can tell you that a 2 man team with a pair of skateboards (or something
similar but modified to better suit it's task make the job of disappearing
your bike into their van last about 10 seconds so bollocks to your
assertion because it is just plain fucking wrong.
The only way you will stop your bike being stolen will be to use a ground
anchor and then you will only stop the bastards for as long as it takes
them to tech up with cutting tools.
Ultimately the answer is to make theft easy but detection after the event
110% effective which needs plod concerned about things other than donuts
and fighting the ever lengthening string of corruption charges.
--
steve auvache
Thomas
>
>
> I have, over the years, learnt more about bike theft than I care but I
> can tell you that a 2 man team with a pair of skateboards (or something
> similar but modified to better suit it's task make the job of disappearing
> your bike into their van last about 10 seconds so bollocks to your
> assertion because it is just plain fucking wrong.
Some years ago, a group of coworkers rode to the Laughlin, Nevada
River Run. It's essentially Sturgis West. Thousands of bikes. My
friends stayed in one of the casino hotels. They parked their bikes in
the hotel lot, with cars completely surrounding the bikes. You
couldn't ride the bikes away without moving a car. One of their bikes
was stolen. It seems one of the LA gangs (perhaps the HA, I dunno,)
ran an operation with articulated trucks. They stole ~100 bikes that
weekend, took them back to LA and parted them out. It didn't matter
what you did, if they wanted a bike, they stole it. The gang was
infiltrated by an undercover cop. A couple of months later, my friend
received notice that they'd recovered one of his wheels.
Ace
<dont...@thecow.me.uk> wrote:
>Ultimately the answer is to make theft easy but detection after the event
>110% effective
Not really. _Ultimately_ the answer is to have a society where people
don't steal stuff in the first place.
The Older Gentleman
>
> Some years ago, a group of coworkers rode to the Laughlin, Nevada
> River Run. It's essentially Sturgis West. Thousands of bikes. My
> friends stayed in one of the casino hotels. They parked their bikes in
> the hotel lot, with cars completely surrounding the bikes. You
> couldn't ride the bikes away without moving a car. One of their bikes
> was stolen. It seems one of the LA gangs (perhaps the HA, I dunno,)
> ran an operation with articulated trucks. They stole ~100 bikes that
> weekend, took them back to LA and parted them out. It didn't matter
> what you did, if they wanted a bike, they stole it. The gang was
> infiltrated by an undercover cop. A couple of months later, my friend
> received notice that they'd recovered one of his wheels.
At the Bol d'Or, Paul Ricard Circuit, France, oh, must be over 20 years
ago now, a gang from Marseilles rocked up with a couple of containers on
flatbeds, which they set up by the cirtuit, offering locked secure
parking for bikes theft was a real problem there).
You guessed it. They filled both containers, locked them, loaded them
back onto the trucks, and drove off.
I remember interrupting two thieves trying to hotwire a Ducati 916 at
that race, one night. 1995, it was. I had my cameras on my and popped
off a pic. Got chased. They swiped the camera, but they only got the
flash, leaving the hot shoe still on th body, snapped off. The magazine
I was working for ran the pic of the thieves in action as their main
illustration for the feature :-)
Camera was an old mechanical Olympus Trip.
Ace
<dontw...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:
>Ace wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 26 May 2011 04:16:46 +0100, steve auvache
>> <dont...@thecow.me.uk> wrote:
>>
>> > Ultimately the answer is to make theft easy but detection after the
>> > event 110% effective
>>
>> Not really. Ultimately the answer is to have a society where people
>> don't steal stuff in the first place.
>
>Which will never happen as long as there's drugs.
Well I doubt it would ever happen too, but I'm not sure why you bring
drugs into it. An unequal society has been the norm in the British
Isles[1] since long before drugs came on the scene.
[1] Under whichever management.
steve auvache
You mean live in a world without tax accountants? Great idea in theory
but it will never work in practice.
--
steve auvache
steve auvache
<dontw...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:
>Ace wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 26 May 2011 07:56:53 +0000 (UTC), "Krusty"
>> <dontw...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> > Ace wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Thu, 26 May 2011 04:16:46 +0100, steve auvache
>> >> <dont...@thecow.me.uk> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Ultimately the answer is to make theft easy but detection after
>> the >> > event 110% effective
>> >>
>> >> Not really. Ultimately the answer is to have a society where people
>> >> don't steal stuff in the first place.
>> >
>> > Which will never happen as long as there's drugs.
>>
>> Well I doubt it would ever happen too, but I'm not sure why you bring
>> drugs into it.
>
>Because it's believed that well over half of thefts are drugs related.
While I do accept that the use of drugs and other criminal activities do
seem to go hand in hand I hardly think it likely that some hostel dwelling
crack head is going to be going to the lengths of teams of thieves running
around the countryside in insulated vans with purpose built tool kits
stealing bikes worth many at a time just to get the cash for their next
fix.
No, the connection between drugs and motorcycle theft is at best a very
tenuous one.
--
steve auvache
Pip
robinson says...
> Must admit i have had several data tool alarms and never had a
> problem with them
Yebbut that's the way they get you. They just work unobtrusively in the
background, quite happily - amd then they don't.
My RF900 came with a Datatool Veto and it worked fine. I had to get
into the routine in filling stations, but that becomes automatic with
practice and only involves memory and timing.
All was well, until we went to the BMF, when it rained. After the trip
up the spray-ridden A1, the alarm didn't want to disarm and would only
go into Service Mode. That was OK, I rode into Peterborough to get beer
on a beeping bike. It wouldn't re-arm on my return, so it stayed in
Service Mode ... all night.
There was a certain amount of grief around the next morning, from the
sober types who'd had their kip disturbed by the beeping bike. When it
came time to go home, they got their revenge, as the thing wouldn't
start. Pushed it across the site and the resident RAC chappie ripped
the fucking fucker out by the roots.
Just like anything automatic, they're fine until something goes wrong
and they stop working automatically, usually at the least convenient
moment possible. Then the only solution is out with them, root and
shoot.
--
Pip: Keeper of the Cable Ties
steve auvache
>The pro gangs who steal to order are probably responsible for the
>majority of late model sportsbike thefts, especially in London, but
>I'll bet the people stealing for drugs money come a close second.
I think you are falling into the standard trap set for all knee jerking
reactionaries.
The deal between the incidence of drug taking and other crime is that it
is criminals do the other crime and drugs being illegal are freely
available to that sub set of society as a tradeable commodity whereas the
ordinary middle class property owning working class tax paying stiff is
just a consumer. Is it not normal for bakers to eat their own cakes?
If you want to equate crime with behavioural aspects of society then bear
in mind that not every criminal uses drugs but as near 100% as makes no
difference doesn't file VAT returns on his illicit dealings. Or pays
income tax, or NI. And then harp on about the drug fuelled frenzy that
drives tax dodgers.
--
steve auvache
The Older Gentleman
> The pro gangs who steal to order are probably responsible for the
> majority of late model sportsbike thefts, especially in London, but
> I'll bet the people stealing for drugs money come a close second.
Doubt it, somehow. Not as easy to fence as stuff nicked from stores, not
as easy to steal if you're a hophead.
Bikes are stolen by pro gangs, yep, and they're stolen by scrotes who
ride them and then trash them, and while I'm sure some kids do indeed
nick and fence them I just don't think drugs are a big issue here.
But I don't know for certain either way so wibbleflip.
Pip
says...
> No, the connection between drugs and motorcycle theft is at best a very
> tenuous one.
Can I just say HA, here? Any of the 'backpatch' clubs, come to that.
steve auvache
Older Gentleman) wrote:
>Krusty <dontw...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:
>
>> The pro gangs who steal to order are probably responsible for the
>> majority of late model sportsbike thefts, especially in London, but
>> I'll bet the people stealing for drugs money come a close second.
>
>Doubt it, somehow. Not as easy to fence as stuff nicked from stores, not
>as easy to steal if you're a hophead.
>
>Bikes are stolen by pro gangs, yep, and they're stolen by scrotes who
>ride them and then trash them, and while I'm sure some kids do indeed
>nick and fence them I just don't think drugs are a big issue here.
>
>But I don't know for certain either way so wibbleflip.
You are right.
Theft of vehicles for money is a business. The fact that those who take
part in it are more likely to be drug users has nothing to do with the
business of their business anymore than does not being able to keep your
dick in your pants make you a footballer.
--
steve auvache
Tim
Older Gentleman <totallyde...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>Krusty <dontw...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:
>
>>
>> Blaming the alarm when it's been 'very badly fitted' to a bike that's
>> been 'heavily crashed' hardly seems fair.
>
>Maybe so, but the bastard things *always* seem to go wrong at the worst
>time, they *never* seem to have the rock-solid reliability of car
>the loom, like Triumph's, may be different.
>
Tempting fate, but the alarms fitted to my two old Triumphs have been
fine. The one on the Daytona failed but in a way that let the bike work
and a local vehicle electrician found a dry-joint on the little circuit
board in less than 10 mins. Being older types these do not have so many
"clever" functions and I wonder if their simplicity make them more
reliable.
--
Tim
steve auvache
wrote:
>In message <1k1tfbi.1bvnf2a1vajan4N%totallyde...@yahoo.co.uk>, The
>Older Gentleman <totallyde...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>>Krusty <dontw...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Blaming the alarm when it's been 'very badly fitted' to a bike that's
>>> been 'heavily crashed' hardly seems fair.
>>
>>Maybe so, but the bastard things *always* seem to go wrong at the worst
>>time, they *never* seem to have the rock-solid reliability of car
>>systems. I will agree that the factory-fit ones that plug straight intio
>>the loom, like Triumph's, may be different.
>>
>Tempting fate, but the alarms fitted to my two old Triumphs have been
>fine.
post after post after post that says this
>The one on the Daytona failed
and then says this.
Make your mind up guys and gals and various others.
--
steve auvache
Hog.
> I still think that a proper steering lock is the best compromise: it's
> always fitted, doesn't weigh much and needs no luggage or straps to
> carry it. Also, it can't bugger up the electrics or flatten the
> battery,
>
> Not only that but you'd struggle to forget it was locked and try to
> ride away. Not that I've ever written off a brake disc or wrenched a
> spoke that way. No siree.
>
> By 'proper' I don't mean a bit of steel tack-welded with pigeon-shit
> welds to the outside of the head stock, with a cast-zinc lock body
> acting as the other fixing: I mean a proper splined dog-clutch,
> possibly with a small cush-drive to absorb hammer blows, built into
> the head stock where it would be hard to tamper with.
>
> You wouldn't be able to ride the bike away with such a lock fitted and
> you wouldn't easily wheel it away, either.
>
> By making the lock easy to use, it's much more likely to actually
> /get/ used: not everyone bothers to chain up their bike when, say,
> popping into town.
>
> The sort of serious thief who bundles a bike into a van is also going
> to be able to grab a bike that's immobilized, alarmed, disc-locked or
> chained.
Yup the ST4 steering lock is 1st class and I'm happy to rely on it for short
hops into shops.
--
Hog
Hog.
Concealed carry licences are the answer
--
Hog
Pip
>
> Pip wrote:
> > All was well, until we went to the BMF, when it rained. After the
> > trip up the spray-ridden A1, the alarm didn't want to disarm and
> > would only go into Service Mode.
>
> Which again implies it was poorly fitted, or you let the fob get wet
> (they weren't waterproof in those days). If the alarm was fitted
> somewhere out of range of any spray, & the connections were properly
> watertight, it wouldn't have failed. If there wasn't anywhere
> watertight to fit it, the installer should've refused to put it on.
Pro fitting job, came with all the paperwork and everything. The fob,
as ever, was on a lanyard round my neck within the all-encompassing
GoreTex. However, there's nowhere truly dry under the RF seat but the
unit itself was dry (as demonstrated by my hero the RAC chap, who opened
it up to see if there was anything apparent) as it was wrapped tightly
in rubbery plastic and sealed.
The point is that it was far from the first time that bike had got wet -
we rode up to Newcastle in the pissing rain and it didn't go wrong. The
point is that such things, while a good idea as far as security goes,
are unreliable POS, that should only be fitted in a manner such that
enables use of the motorcycle without them when shit happens - because
the chances are that shit will happen and when it does - poof! - you
have no bike. No warning, no gradual breakdown, no way home.
I know of at least three posters (ex-posters, now I think about it) who
had PCB problems which stranded them, one of whom had three replacement
boards fitted before it was right. I'd never go there again - if the
right bike came along with an automatic alarm fitted, I'd disconnect the
thing immediately.
You're a voice in the wilderness, mate.
Hog.
> Hampshire last year. I see no reason to believe they're unique.
>
>> No, the connection between drugs and motorcycle theft is at best a
>> very tenuous one.
>
> majority of late model sportsbike thefts, especially in London, but
> I'll bet the people stealing for drugs money come a close second.
Drug legislation is some kind of madness and think of the tax revenues and
farmer diversification lost. Every time it comes up I think the only reason
govmints keep it this way is a question of who is coining in the serious
money.
Get rid of it as an avenue for crime and have a 3 time loser law and I
expect 90% of the crimes that most of us actually care about would go away.
--
Hog
Hog.
> In article <ia5st617b1e97fhhr...@4ax.com>, steve auvache
> says...
>
>> No, the connection between drugs and motorcycle theft is at best a
>> very tenuous one.
>
> Can I just say HA, here? Any of the 'backpatch' clubs, come to that.
Yup. Even the Blues in Scotland who set themselves apart somewhat had many
members supporting themselves thus and theft of bikes from non patch wearers
generally wasn't frowned upon. Hence I never wore it.
--
Hog
The Older Gentleman
> You're a voice in the wilderness, mate.
And don't get me started on sidestand cut-out switches, either.....
Pip
Older Gentleman says...
>
> Pip <ginge...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > You're a voice in the wilderness, mate.
>
> And don't get me started on sidestand cut-out switches, either.....
I'm with you on that one, all the way.
<brandishes paperclip>
Jim
> OTOH, I'm amused about an Italian company fitting a drain hole to their
> wiring loom, FFS. Everyone else seems to take care to ensure that the
> things don't fill up with water in the first place.
Someone ought to tell that to Audi/VW.
They had the brainwave of designing an ventilation intake which clogs up
with leaves and then overflows into the passenger footwell. If that
wasn't idiotic enough, they've buried the alarm ECU under the carpet.
So it fills up with water and the PCB starts to corrode - the first you
know of it is when you're driving along and the car starts unlocking/
locking itself randomly and flashing the indicators.
Ace
Sorry, what was the question then?
Tim
writes
>The Older Gentleman wrote:
>> OTOH, I'm amused about an Italian company fitting a drain hole to their
>> wiring loom, FFS. Everyone else seems to take care to ensure that the
>> things don't fill up with water in the first place.
>
>Someone ought to tell that to Audi/VW.
>
The front door filled with rain water and Honda's response was to take
out the rubber bung in the bottom of the door. They couldn't understand
why anyone thought that water trapped inside the door could be a
corrosion risk.
--
Tim
Tim
<dontw...@nowhere.invalid> writes
>Pip wrote:
>
>> In article <1k1vjn9.184knfoabbl7qN%totallyde...@yahoo.co.uk>,
>> The Older Gentleman says...
>> >
>> > Pip <ginge...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > You're a voice in the wilderness, mate.
>> >
>> > And don't get me started on sidestand cut-out switches, either.....
>>
>> I'm with you on that one, all the way.
>
>
What's the problem with them?
--
Tim
Pip
Well - if your licence is concealed, nobody can nick it. Right?
Pip
>
> Pip wrote:
>
> > In article <1k1vjn9.184knfoabbl7qN%totallyde...@yahoo.co.uk>,
> > The Older Gentleman says...
> > >
> > > Pip <ginge...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > You're a voice in the wilderness, mate.
> > >
> > > And don't get me started on sidestand cut-out switches, either.....
> >
> > I'm with you on that one, all the way.
>
I'll add Suzuki clutch switches to the list, before some other bugger
does.
It occurred to me just now, driving through torrential rain along
country lanes that were becoming rivers of abruptly variable depth -
automotive manufacturers manage to produce cars and motorcycles that
don't cry "Pax! Fainits!" at the first splash (any more) so why should
an aftermarket electronic system, designed and marketed expressly for
motorcycle use, be any different?
Colin Irvine
He's not alone, though. I'm happy with a properly fitted alarm.
--
Colin Irvine
ZZR1400 BOF#33 BONY#34 COFF#06 BHaLC#5
http://www.colinandpat.co.uk
steve robinson
The shouldnt but like so many things in life if they can save a few
pennies they will
Tim
<dontw...@nowhere.invalid> writes
>one developed an intermittent fault around 10k miles, & gradually got
>worse. Others on the Tig list have had the same problem. Of course it's
>not the sort of thing you'd normally notice until you check it over for
>the MOT, & because it's intermittent...
>
Oh ta. I didn't know about that.
--
Tim
Pip
That's only half the story.
Well, it isn't the vent intake that clogs up with leaves - it's the
drains to the plenum chamber that supplies the ventilation system with
air ... the one under the slotted grille that one finds at the base of
the windscreen on most cars. The slots that receive all the water that
runs down off the windscreen, that's the one. The one in the high-
pressure area at the base of the screen, deliberately placed there to
enable a ram effect, collecting the airflow and making it available to
the vent system.
So the plenum chamber, by its very nature, gets everything that is
thrown at the front of the car - including rainwater, dead leaves,
birdshit, deer intestines - everything. There's a drain hole at either
end, fitted with rubber hoses that terminate in slits, that bung up with
silt. The drain holes themselves bung up with larger debris, yes, like
dead leaves. When the trapped water level rises high enough, it runs
into the pollen filter housing (you have to make *damned* sure that's
sealed when you change the filter) either round the edges or directly
through the pollen filter.
Once the water is into the vent system, it trickles downwards from its
point of ingress at the top, running down the bulkhead and wetting the
carpet in the passenger footwell. Every Passat driver should know to
take up the rubber mat and check the back of it - if there's dampness,
action is required and no hanging about.
Yes, it might well get to the alarm ECU - but it can also permeate the
back of the dashboard, in the central are where all the electrics live.
These electrics are not in any way moisture resistant - why should they
be, they're inside the passenger compartment and that stays dry, right?
There's a well-documented straight line for the trickling water ...
right into the back of the climate control brain. This fritzes in short
order, which means there's not only no climate - there's no heating, no
vent fans - and it's directly connected to the rest of the dash, which
will also object to the fritzing and shut down. That's immobilised,
then.
This is very expensive to rectify. Not only are the electronics
damnably expensive, but the climate brain is pretty much the first thing
fitted to the car on the line.
Maintenance is the answer. Clearing the drain holes is the way forward.
Takes a whole morning and not a small amount of grief, that's the
trouble. The nearside drain is beneath the battery, which is a) under
its own cover; b) a particularly tight fit in the 'ole; c) bloody heavy;
d) a bloody awkward stretch and lift at full length of arms, leaning
over the front wing while under the bonnet. Plus, of course, you need
to disconnect it which means resetting everything afterwards.
The offside one is right under the wiper motor - right under it. You
need a torch to see it and a bottle brush bent into a very unlikely
shape to clear all the crap out from around the hole. You're lying on
top of the engine for this, as well, hoping the plastic cover continues
to take your weight and losing feeling below the waist. Bloody awful
job it is, that isn't undertaken lightly, or come to that,
preventatively - one waits until the dampness appears.
German cars, eh. Rubbish.
Pip
says...
> >You're a voice in the wilderness, mate.
>
> He's not alone, though. I'm happy with a properly fitted alarm.
Your time will come.
Andy B
> In article <irl7ss$inv$1...@dont-email.me>, Krusty says...
snip discussion on whether or not alarms work
>
> You're a voice in the wilderness, mate.
Actually he isn't. I had a datatool alarm fitted to my 9R and I've got
one fitted to my 10R and apart from the battery going flat in one of the
older key fobs they've always worked ok.
I'd have chipped in earlier but I'm bored with being corrected this
week.
Hog.
Tough week in Power Supply world?
--
Hog
Thomas
There's another answer. Don't own a bike people want to steal.
--
Thomas's quiver:
Honda Pan Euro
BMW R1200GS
Hog.
<applause>
--
Hog
Simon Wilson
Hah, that's probably where I'm going right.
--
/Simon
zymurgy
> On Wed, 25 May 2011 10:59:45 +0100, totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk (The
>
>
>
> Older Gentleman) wrote:
> >AW <andrew_w...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > See reply to TOG. In your particular case, all people would've seen is
> >> > someone riding a bike with the alarm going off. Their conclusion?
> >> > Either it's the owner & the alarm's fucked, or it's some completely
> >> > brazen thief who's not to be messed with
>
> >> That seems a fair definition of "ineffective" ..... fair point that
> >> you can't tell how many it does put off though.
>
> >Yup, agreed on both counts.
>
> >There again, you can't tell how many thieves a well-placed and stout chain puts off.
>
> Assuming my recent experience is typical then the answer is absolutely zero.
Unless it wasn't stout enough ... ?
Paul.
zymurgy
> In message <irllga$8f...@dont-email.me>, Krusty
> <dontwant...@nowhere.invalid> writes
>
> >Tim wrote:
>
> >> In message <irlg2g$4i...@dont-email.me>, Krusty
> >> <dontwant...@nowhere.invalid> writes
> >> > Pip wrote:
>
> >> > Me too! And I'll add front brake switches, on Triumphs at least.
>
> >> What's the problem with them?
>
> >They seem to fail a bit more frequently than they should. My 955 Tig
> >one developed an intermittent fault around 10k miles, & gradually got
> >worse. Others on the Tig list have had the same problem. Of course it's
> >not the sort of thing you'd normally notice until you check it over for
> >the MOT, & because it's intermittent...
>
> Oh ta. I didn't know about that.
Oh ta. I didn't want to know about that.
Paul.
zymurgy
> In article <irlg2g$4i...@dont-email.me>, Krusty says...
>
>
>
> > Pip wrote:
>
> > > In article <1k1vjn9.184knfoabbl7qN%totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk>,
> > > The Older Gentleman says...
>
> > > > Pip <gingerbl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > You're a voice in the wilderness, mate.
>
> > > > And don't get me started on sidestand cut-out switches, either.....
>
> > > I'm with you on that one, all the way.
>
> > Me too! And I'll add front brake switches, on Triumphs at least.
>
Uh huh ...
Paul.
zymurgy
> In article <0anst65pm8977ev77vgvluenmvftq4e...@4ax.com>, Colin Irvine says...
>
> > On Thu, 26 May 2011 12:15:53 +0100, Pip <gingerbl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >You're a voice in the wilderness, mate.
>
> > He's not alone, though. I'm happy with a properly fitted alarm.
>
> Your time will come.
To be honest, he doesn't ride shonky old crap like we do ..
Paul.
Andy B
No chance, I'm as happy as a pig in shit when I get back on the power
stations and it's all starting to get busy again so the days fly past.
Andy B
> Andy B wrote:
>
> > Pip <ginge...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > In article <irl7ss$inv$1...@dont-email.me>, Krusty says...
> >
> > snip discussion on whether or not alarms work
> > >
> > > You're a voice in the wilderness, mate.
> >
> > Actually he isn't. I had a datatool alarm fitted to my 9R and I've got
> > one fitted to my 10R and apart from the battery going flat in one of
> > the older key fobs they've always worked ok.
>
> Yay!
>
> > I'd have chipped in earlier but I'm bored with being corrected this
> > week.
>
> No you're not.
You're right.
Beav
"zymurgy" <zym...@technologist.com> wrote in message
news:72e7627c-03ca-4161...@m40g2000vbt.googlegroups.com...
If the thieves want the bike, they'll have the bike. Chains would probably
put off an opportunist thief, but alarms don't seem to be much of a
deterrent if at all.
--
Beav
ogden
I know what you mean. I've been as busy in the last couple of days as I
ever have in my life. I'm mopping up a fucking great bucket of someone
else's shit, and there's plenty more shit in the bucket, but it's almost
fun being at work for a change.
--
ogden
gsxr1000 - the gentleman's sports-tourer
ktm duke - the practical cross-town commuter
Beav
"Adie" <nos...@bonwick.me.uk> wrote in message
news:0jkqt69b733fu4loe...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 25 May 2011 10:11:31 +0100, "Beav"
> <beavis....@ntlwoxorld.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Krusty" <dontw...@nowhere.invalid> wrote in message
>>news:irie8t$oad$1...@dont-email.me...
>>> AW wrote:
>>>
>>>> > > Their only value is to alert the owner to tampering, if he or
>>>> > > she happens to be in earshot.
>>>> >
>>>> > An oft made claim, but complete bollocks.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> The empirical evidence doesn't seem to suggest this conclusion. :-)
>>>
>>> See reply to TOG. In your particular case, all people would've seen is
>>> someone riding a bike with the alarm going off. Their conclusion?
>>> Either it's the owner & the alarm's fucked, or it's some completely
>>
>>I'm willing to bet that most people on hearing an alarm simply think "For
>>fucks sake, turn that noise off" before going back to what they were
>>doing.
>
> I did exactly that. however, the alarm in question was because I'd
> left the bike on the drive, switched on and forgotten about it.
>
> The alarm obviously goes off when the battery drains....two hours
> later. how long it had been going off before I noticed I don't know.
>
>>I've heard many alarms and yet I've never seen a single incidence of
>>anyone
>>doing anything about it.
>
> When a neighbours house alarm went out several of us went to
> investigate.
Been there myself, in fact we heard the intruders inside my next door
neighbours place, so me and my dog went round (half past one on the
morning). They heard us coming and fucked off, so I called plod and between
us we got the house re-secured.
The fucking neighbour was pissed off with me when she got back from holiday
for nailing their window shut. Well I say "nail" but in fact I managed to
only put a nail point sized dent in the *very* hard wood, so rather than
bugger the frame up, I went through the now open window, found a spare door
key, re-locked the back window and went out the front door. Posted the key
and fucked off to bed.
She actually asked me what I intended doing about her window frame when I
told her what had happened and was quite shocked when I said I could wrap it
first round her head and then around her husbands or vice versa if that's
what she wanted. Didn't speak to me for years. Unfortunately, it didn't
last.
--
Beav
> --
> Adie (replace spam with nickname to reply)
> YZF-R1 : FZ1N : RD350LC
> (anyone would think I was partial to Yamahas)
> MRO#11 BOTAFOF#7 BOTAFOT#130 DIAABTCOD#17 MIB#24 YTC#16
> BOB#15 ex-UKRMMA#22 BOMB#11
zymurgy
> I fucking hate them, I cannot describe the feelings of hatred I get
> when I see a bike fitted with one in my workshop. I always get the urge
> to rip the fucking things out and smash them to bits with a cunting
> great 4lb lump hammer
Nige,is that you ?
For a mo' there, I thought the datatool on the 12R had gone 'phut'.
Paul.