Advice on Top End Problem
David Gleaves
1981 Honda CB250N Superdream.
The bike has 33,500 miles on the clock and is in average condition for its
age. I do only very modest mileage - about 1,250 miles since I acquired it
in August 2000.
A few months ago the bike developed a high-pitched 'chatter' from the top
end when run above about 3,000 rpm. I checked the tappets and adjusted the
cam chain tensioner (statically and with engine running). The 'chatter'
seemed to come and go as I adjusted the tensioner but never completely
disappeared.
I spoke to a mate who reckons that, given the bike's mileage, the cam chain
needs replacing (a BIG job). If I run it in its present state he says I risk
serious engine seizure.
I checked through a couple of handbooks and manuals: seems that cam chains
can wear but my Haynes manual states that 'no service data is available for
the chain . working conditions are ideal and therefore a low wear rate may
be expected.' Similarly there is no data for the tensioner blade wear. The
manual suggests that it is renewed if the rubber is down to 50% original
thickness.
Renewing the tensioner blade seems to require the removal of the cylinder
head (which I could manage); replacing the cam chain looks like you have to
dismantle the whole engine (beyond me). Not quite sure what I might be
letting myself in for here and would appreciate any advice, guidance or
diagnosis.
Thanks
David Gleaves
Malvern
England
Andy Hewitt
> I'd welcome advice on a 'top end' problem that's recently developed on my
> 1981 Honda CB250N Superdream.
>
> The bike has 33,500 miles on the clock and is in average condition for its
> age. I do only very modest mileage - about 1,250 miles since I acquired it
> in August 2000.
>
> A few months ago the bike developed a high-pitched 'chatter' from the top
> end when run above about 3,000 rpm. I checked the tappets and adjusted the
> cam chain tensioner (statically and with engine running). The 'chatter'
> seemed to come and go as I adjusted the tensioner but never completely
> disappeared.
>
> I spoke to a mate who reckons that, given the bike's mileage, the cam chain
> needs replacing (a BIG job). If I run it in its present state he says I risk
> serious engine seizure.
This advice is indeed correct, I had a 400N, and that chattered too -
somebody had even wedged a piece of metal in the tensioner to try and
tighten the chain more. I was advised then that it is common for the
chains to smash through the block if left.
About 30000 miles does sound about right, based on advice I was given.
--
Andy Hewitt ** FAF#1, OSOS#5 - BMW K100RS 8v, Honda Concerto 16v
(RIP H100s, CB400N, CB750KZ, XJ600s) Windows free zone (Mac G3)
<http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ahewitt/index.htm> (last update 11/01)
Stewart Hargrave
22:10:14 -0000 the life form we call "David Gleaves"
<da...@gleaves.fsbusiness.co.uk> tried to communicate the following
message to us:
>I'd welcome advice on a 'top end' problem that's recently developed on my
>1981 Honda CB250N Superdream.
>
>The bike has 33,500 miles on the clock and is in average condition for its
>age. I do only very modest mileage - about 1,250 miles since I acquired it
>in August 2000.
70 miles a month - you don't ride for pleasure, then.
<snip>
>replacing the cam chain looks like you have to
>dismantle the whole engine (beyond me).
I bet there's a split chain available. That'd make it *much* easier.
--
Stewart Hargrave
Gurt big fat Kawasaki 1000GTR on hope and string
Gurt big fat Volvo 740 on LPG
Platypus
>
> After careful examination, we concluded that on Tue, 5 Mar 2002
> 22:10:14 -0000 the life form we call "David Gleaves"
> <da...@gleaves.fsbusiness.co.uk> tried to communicate the following
> message to us:
>
> >dismantle the whole engine (beyond me).
>
> I bet there's a split chain available. That'd make it *much* easier.
Is (IIRC) Tony Galea still in business?
--
Platypus
VN800 Drifter "The Comfy Chair"
DIABTCOOD#2 GPOTHUF#19
BOTAFOS#6 BOTAFOT#89
BOB#1 SBS#35
.
adrian.dronfield
clean and u can get the cam chain changed and it will runalot better when
all is done
good look
regards
ashley t
england
"David Gleaves" <da...@gleaves.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote in message
news:a63gq0$cvk$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
lozzo
Platypus <plat...@ukrm.org> wrote in message
news:3C855C7A...@ukrm.org...
> Stewart Hargrave wrote:
> >
> > After careful examination, we concluded that on Tue, 5 Mar 2002
> > 22:10:14 -0000 the life form we call "David Gleaves"
> > <da...@gleaves.fsbusiness.co.uk> tried to communicate the following
> > message to us:
> >
> > >replacing the cam chain looks like you have to
> > >dismantle the whole engine (beyond me).
> >
> > I bet there's a split chain available. That'd make it *much* easier.
>
> Is (IIRC) Tony Galea still in business?
Yes , I'll dig his number out of my car , he's a customer of mine and does
fit split cam-chains to any bike. I'm not sure if he still does a mobile
service though.
--
Lozzo
RD350LC F2 (Doris), RD400F x2, RD250D, CB250RSA (Benson)
(All shite , but all mine)
BOTAFOT#57/70a, SBS#10, TCP#7, BONY#9, ANORAK#9, DIAABTCOD#14, UKRMT5MBB,
IBW#013, MIRTTH#15a/16
I'm giving up 2-strokes, they killed Princess Margaret.
UKRM FAQ is at http://www.ukrm.net/faq/ukrmfaq1.html
Gratuitous spammimg : http://www.bikestyle.co.uk
lozzo
Simon Atkinson <$im...@raunds.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c6ja8us60qbimdvto...@4ax.com...
> David Gleaves said in <a63gq0$cvk$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>:
>
> >I'd welcome advice on a 'top end' problem that's recently developed on my
> >1981 Honda CB250N Superdream.
<snip>
>
> Hondas of that age were famous for the cam chain tensioners not
> tensioning the cam chain.
>
> I can't remember ever changing a chain (unless the engine was stripped
> down anyway) but changing the tensioner is simple and you should easily
> do it in a day at home.
>
> You'll need a full top end gasket set (take the opportunity to change
> the valve stem oil seals and give her a bit of a decoke). Sorted.
Be very careful if trying to remove the barrels from an old Superdream, the
bolts in the centre are long and seize , then break as you give them a bit
of a twist. Tony Galea can fit a soft-link camchain , as can many bike
dealers if you ask about. it's a damn sight cheaper and easier than
splitting the engine to fit an endless type of chain.
The_Hog
news:1f8m4zh.1s8...@host213-122-6-216.in-addr.btopenworld.com...
> David Gleaves <da...@gleaves.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> Sooner or later you'll need a new camchain, though. See the Tony Galea
> postings in this thread, or ask your dealer if he does soft link
> repairs. The 250N uses a Hy-Vo chain IIRC, but it can still be repaired
> with a soft link..
>
I think you need:
Galea Camchain Services
Unit 26 Bernard Road
Rangemoor Industrial Estate
London
N15 4NE
Mr. Galea
0208 885 5861
Fax: 0208 885 3672
In the dregs of my memory I (might) recall that when elderly 'ondas were the
DR's tool you could get a Drive Through camchain service!! (1)
Check also that they might do a Tensioner mod which will improve reliability
and noise.
They certainly did for CX's (though if you ever saw the size of the sprocket
the chain was driven from....the links had little chance).
(1) kinder would have been a *service* that plucked you off the bike,
crushed it, dragged the perforated Rukka sweatsuit & wellies off then kicked
you towards a job that made money.
--
The_Hog ----K1100LT---- http://uk.photos.yahoo.com/ducati996uk
email at Hog...@ukrm.net remove bondage to reply
Richard Wood
> > Is (IIRC) Tony Galea still in business?
>
Is he still there holding the ends together?
--
frag
Honda XRV750, Honda Prelude
BOTAFOT#6, Deputy KoTBOTAFOTL, UKRMHRC#11, BOD#7
Col.Tupperware
news:a63gq0$cvk$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
> 1981 Honda CB250N Superdream.
>
> The bike has 33,500 miles on the clock and is in average condition for its
> age. I do only very modest mileage - about 1,250 miles since I acquired it
> in August 2000.
>
AND
remember that the camshaft runs direclty in the head with no shell bearings.
These bearing faces do wear, at around 30k miles.
You will then get a top end rattle that will not go away, even if you have a
new cam chain every week.
My advice is to live with it.
The bike's not really worth spending any money on from a labour point of
view. 5hrs labour and you've reached the value of the machine.
Run it till it dies, or flog it now and get something a bit newer. Its not
as if you are doing a high mileage is it?
--
Col. Tupperware
iPCRC #777 HOC #17010 BOTA - FOT#92 - FOF#22 - COFF#19
Spannerman to decerning MK bikers. Spamtrap replace u with - to reply
'89 Honda PC800 "Obelix"
Timo Geusch
<snip top posted stuff>
Would you kindly post at the bottom, old chap? Ta.
--
'92 K100RS 4V | '75 Honda CB750 K2
'68 Morini Corsaro 125 Special | '53 Gilera 150 SuperSport
BOTAFOF #33
lozzo
The_Hog <Hog...@ukrm.net> wrote in message
news:a64qcs$b9dq8$1...@ID-105725.news.dfncis.de...
> The Older Gentleman <chateau...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:1f8m4zh.1s8...@host213-122-6-216.in-addr.btopenworld.com...
> > David Gleaves <da...@gleaves.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Sooner or later you'll need a new camchain, though. See the Tony Galea
> > postings in this thread, or ask your dealer if he does soft link
> > repairs. The 250N uses a Hy-Vo chain IIRC, but it can still be repaired
> > with a soft link..
> >
>
> I think you need:
>
> Galea Camchain Services
> Unit 26 Bernard Road
> Rangemoor Industrial Estate
> London
> N15 4NE
Try this number , it's his new one somewhere in Essex IIRC
01268 735355
HTH
David Gleaves
progress.
David
Malvern
England
"David Gleaves" <da...@gleaves.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote in message
news:a63gq0$cvk$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
The_Hog
news:a65rni$aodgu$1...@ID-54668.news.dfncis.de...
>
> The_Hog <Hog...@ukrm.net> wrote in message
> news:a64qcs$b9dq8$1...@ID-105725.news.dfncis.de...
> > The Older Gentleman <chateau...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> >
news:1f8m4zh.1s8...@host213-122-6-216.in-addr.btopenworld.com...
> > > David Gleaves <da...@gleaves.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
> > >
> Try this number , it's his new one somewhere in Essex IIRC
>
> 01268 735355
>
Oh the cheek of it, moving addy.
Guess there is less call for drive in honda cam-chain services these days!!
Actually, was TG not badly injured in a crash a while back?
Mike Fleming
<da...@gleaves.fsbusiness.co.uk> writes:
> Renewing the tensioner blade seems to require the removal of the cylinder
> head (which I could manage); replacing the cam chain looks like you have to
> dismantle the whole engine (beyond me). Not quite sure what I might be
> letting myself in for here and would appreciate any advice, guidance or
> diagnosis.
33,500 miles is around the life of a Dream/Superdream camchain.
However, there are replacements available which can be fitted without
dismantling the engine - they use a soft link which is paened over to
secure it.
--
Mike Fleming
Mike Fleming
<lo...@breathemail.net> writes:
> Be very careful if trying to remove the barrels from an old Superdream, the
> bolts in the centre are long and seize , then break as you give them a bit
> of a twist.
Ah yes, good point, the centre bolts are exposed to the elements for
some reason, and are made of corrodium. Make sure that they're
properly cleaned up before refitting, otherwise the indicated torque
will be wrong which can lead to a blown head gasket. DAMHIKIJKOK.
--
Mike Fleming
Mike Fleming
<Hog...@ukrm.net> writes:
> In the dregs of my memory I (might) recall that when elderly 'ondas were the
> DR's tool you could get a Drive Through camchain service!! (1)
Probably not on a CX500 though...
--
Mike Fleming
Cannibal Surf Boy
> David Gleaves <da...@gleaves.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> One quick fix is to remove the rocker cover, undo the camchain tensioner
> locknut, and push down on the top of the tensioner blade (under the cam
> cover) before retightening the locknut.
>
> What you're doing is bowing the tensioner out further to take up the
> slack in the chain.
Ah, yes - I remember doing that and it does work.
--
Rich
GSF600S Y2K, via GS550E, CB400N, MZTS125*2
VWType2
Chris Des Clayes
wrote:
Securing camchains with hymns of joy? That's novel!
--
ChrisDC VN1500-J1 Drifter "Gertrude"
Barrel Bikers Buckingham MCC http://www.barrel.fsnet.co.uk
From Gertrude's manual: "Let the oil completely drain with the
motorcycle perpendicular to the ground."
Munged addresses, use reply-to and remove brain.
Mike Fleming
Clayes <ne...@127.0.0.1> writes:
> On Thu, 07 Mar 2002 14:12:19 +0000, Mike Fleming <mi...@tauzero.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> >33,500 miles is around the life of a Dream/Superdream camchain.
> >However, there are replacements available which can be fitted without
> >dismantling the engine - they use a soft link which is paened over to
> >secure it.
>
> Securing camchains with hymns of joy? That's novel!
Held together with a wing an' a prayer, innit?
--
Mike Fleming