1000 miles of electric commuting.

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Pipl

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Jul 12, 2021, 9:28:55 AM7/12/21
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Erk, this is longer than I thought.

So far, so good. Range on a roughly 36 mile round-trip commute, riding
on A roads and dual-carriageways at my usual commuting speed is fine;
I get home with something like 45% charge remaining. Riding it harder
than I'd usually ride the Guzzi gets the remaining charge down to
around 40%.

Last Thursday and Friday, I tried to wring two commutes out of one
charge. This wasn't the best of times to do this: I've found that the
bike charges to 100% but if left for a couple of days unused (still
plugged in), the charge level drops to 98%. I hadn't used it for a day
or two, so started from 98%.

I commuted on the first day at maybe a couple of mph under the speed
limits. The second day I was creeping home at 125 learner-bike speeds,
grateful for the Newmarket races 40 limit and slower traffic. The A11
coming home was a dull trundle, with cars whizzing past. I definitely
suffered range anxiety: it's not as though I could get a 'Er Ladyship
to nip out with a can of electricity. I got home with 5% charge left.

Overall, it has a range of roughly 75 miles of open roads if ridden
like a 125cc commuter. I'm still not certain whether the longer,
slower, back roads route uses more or less charge than the faster but
shorter route that includes straight A roads and dual-carriageway.

Power-wise, it pulls like a train from low revs when the battery is
fully charged, but loses its sparkle by about 50%. At low charge,
well, it does accelerate, but that's all that can be said.

A typical recharge from a single commute at normal speeds takes around
three and a half to four hours, including time spent balancing the
cells. The bike rather optimistically estimates around two and a half
hours. One thing I've found is that the battery charge level at the
end of the working day is higher than when I arrived at work by about
3-5% of maximum charge: the battery seems to recover a bit.

I initially tried the stock suspension settings and found the rear
woefully underdamped. Oddly though, I can feel pretty much the entire
road surface. Not sure whether this is to do with the relatively
budget suspension itself or the lack of engine vibration to mask it
[update: I've juse watched episode 1 of Long Way Up: Ewan Mcgregor
made the same observation, riding a different bike, so that settles
it]. it rides undulating roads well, but sharp irregularities
(potholes, tarmac changes etc) can be very jarring. Added to this, the
rear number plate bracket vibrates on these bumps, which adds a sort
of thrum to the kick, a little like the haptic feedback you get from
mobiles.

The preceding owner had wound the rear rebound up to maximum, and I
ended up doing the same. It could do with a little more, to be honest.
I have also roughly set up the rear static sag for my weight /
preference. Strictly, the spring probably needs changing, but if I did
splash out then it'd be for a whole shock.

The front is OK, with compression adjustment on one leg and rebound on
the other, same as the Guzzi (but this time with USD forks). The front
has a lot of stiction: I've dicked with it and I think it has improved
a bit, but there's more than I'd expect. I also fitted a cable tie to
one fork leg as the old racer's tell-tale, and from the indicated "low
water mark", reduced the preload to lower the front a bit and dicked a
little with the damping. Not sure that has made a huge difference,
TBH. It might lighten the steering a tad, but maybe I've simply got
used to it. It does feel slightly less stable on bumpy bends but not
worryingly so.

I've fitted a Tutoro chain lube system, which is purely mechanical.
There's no way I'm tapping into the electrical system while the bike's
under warranty and of course there's no vacuum to tap into. The oiler
came as a very comprehensive kit with super-clear instructions and
just works. Very impressed.

What else? The speedo is about 10% optimistic at 20mph at least
(according to those village speed signs), and the trip meter reads
about 1 mile further to work than the Guzzi does, so I suspect it's on
the limit wrt acceptable accuracy. I also suspect that the
elecronically limited top speed gets its readings from the same
source, so 116 is probably more realistic.

Any other quirks? I have inadvertently flicked the kill switch off
while reaching for the rather poorly-placed cruise button a couple of
times.

If the battery is fully charged, there no regeneratve "engine braking"
for the first half mile or so, which nearly caught me out once. On the
subject of engine braking, the regeneration braking force remains
constant regardless of speed, whereas for an IC bike one would tend to
be in a higher gear at higher speeds, so less braking. Just turning
off cruise control at speed, for example, has the bike slow very
abruptly, so care has to be taken with the throttle. I reckon a more
speed-related proportional control would be better.

Trivial stuff: the dash switches between bright and low-light modes
rather abruptly, which is mildly distracting. There is a satnav, which
had me thinking "oh, goody!" but it has to link to a phone and only
helps locate nearby recharging stations. Apparently. I haven't seen it
work in practice.

There's a shootout between the Energica EVA and the Zero SRF here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uriaP6Gb1Io. I've ridden both and the
Zero is (I hate to say it) probably the better bike. But heart won
over head, and anyway, the Eva was secondhand and a couple of grand
cheaper than a new Zero. Incidentally, I am wondering whether the
featured Eva isn't the one that's now sitting in my garage! In the
review, the bike was ridden from the same dealer I bought mine from.

There is also a review of the Energica MotoE racer om the web, with
which I think my bike is related via the Energica Ego. The frame,
motor and gearbox look very similar, though my suspension is rather
more budget. Everything else, including battery, look different. It's
about as close to a Moto<somthing> racer as I'll ever get, probably.

Am I still enjoying it? yes, very much. It's plenty fast enough for
open roads, has the range for the bulk of the miles I do, it's
different, (slightly) greener than other vehicles, and looks pretty
gorgeous.


--

-Pip

jeremy

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Jul 12, 2021, 9:37:46 AM7/12/21
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In article <3igoeghm947e47gfp...@4ax.com>,
plus...@live.co.uk says...
>
> Power-wise, it pulls like a train from low revs when the battery is
> fully charged, but loses its sparkle by about 50%. At low charge,
> well, it does accelerate, but that's all that can be said.
>

That's really interesting and surprising (to me) - I would have assumed
that (unless it's basically out of juice) that it would provide the same
performance. That could be problematic as I guess you have to adjust your
expectations as the charge diminishes as it simply won't respond as you
might expect?

--
jeremy

Mark Olson

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Jul 12, 2021, 9:51:05 AM7/12/21
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I'm wondering if it's a physical limitation or if it's programmed
into the controller, or a little of each.

--
FJR1300A, GL1000, KLR650A6F, EX250J9A, DR200SE, Vespa Ciao

Paul Carmichael

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Jul 12, 2021, 11:16:43 AM7/12/21
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Reminds me of my off-grid house electrics. My batteries are lead/acid and
when there's no sunshine, once the batteries get down to 70% the voltage
drops off rapidly. When the sun comes out, even when only producing a
dribble of current, it props the voltage up and makes the remaining
charge usable.

I'm guessing the bike battery is li-ion or somesuch, but there will
presumably still be a voltage drop.

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/elpatio

Alan

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Jul 12, 2021, 12:02:49 PM7/12/21
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On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 14:28:54 +0100, Pipl wrote:

> Erk, this is longer than I thought.
>
> So far, so good. Range on a roughly 36 mile round-trip commute, riding
> on A roads and dual-carriageways at my usual commuting speed is fine; I
> get home with something like 45% charge remaining. Riding it harder than
> I'd usually ride the Guzzi gets the remaining charge down to around 40%.

Thanks for the write up.
I was going to ask this separately, but this is the ideal thread.
I'm doing the Electric Vehicle Charger point install course in a couple
of weeks. I need to do the Course to enable me to register for the OLEV
grant scheme.
I know the price of the equipment to fit, but it is very unclear what
Grant the Government give out to both Private and Commercial customers.
I've tried to see what the current Installers charge for a basic home
charger, but again, they are very coy about prices, and won't even give a
ballpark figure, they want someone to come round and quote me when they
visit.

Have you (or anyone with a charger) had a quote for the supply and
fitting, and how much of a Govmt. grant did you get, or were promised?

Thanks
Alan.

Bruce Horrocks

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Jul 12, 2021, 1:29:53 PM7/12/21
to
On 12/07/2021 17:02, Alan wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 14:28:54 +0100, Pipl wrote:
>
>> Erk, this is longer than I thought.
>>
>> So far, so good. Range on a roughly 36 mile round-trip commute, riding
>> on A roads and dual-carriageways at my usual commuting speed is fine; I
>> get home with something like 45% charge remaining. Riding it harder than
>> I'd usually ride the Guzzi gets the remaining charge down to around 40%.
>
> Thanks for the write up.
> I was going to ask this separately, but this is the ideal thread.
> I'm doing the Electric Vehicle Charger point install course in a couple
> of weeks. I need to do the Course to enable me to register for the OLEV
> grant scheme.

Do I understand this correctly - that you're an electrician already?

> I know the price of the equipment to fit, but it is very unclear what
> Grant the Government give out to both Private and Commercial customers.
> I've tried to see what the current Installers charge for a basic home
> charger, but again, they are very coy about prices, and won't even give a
> ballpark figure, they want someone to come round and quote me when they
> visit.
>
> Have you (or anyone with a charger) had a quote for the supply and
> fitting, and how much of a Govmt. grant did you get, or were promised?

For a Tesla charge point - which is external and so needs an addition
earth point installed - I was quoted £800-something by one bloke and
£1100-something by another bloke, plus the £450 for the Tesla charger
itself. I didn't query the detail but I assumed both were net of any Gov
subsidy.

These were for what I feel is pretty much the simplest possible
installation because the meter is in the garage and charge point would
be on the front wall of the garage.

Needless to say, I declined their kind offers - and with Covid I've
hardly gone anywhere so 13A charging has been fine.

I'm tempted to just get a 32A socket installed in the garage (for a
future electric bike) :-) and see how much that comes to. Hence the
question above.

--
Bruce Horrocks
FJR1300AS

Alan

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Jul 12, 2021, 1:53:27 PM7/12/21
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On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 18:29:50 +0100, Bruce Horrocks wrote:

> On 12/07/2021 17:02, Alan wrote:

>> I was going to ask this separately, but this is the ideal thread.
>> I'm doing the Electric Vehicle Charger point install course in a couple
>> of weeks. I need to do the Course to enable me to register for the OLEV
>> grant scheme.
>
> Do I understand this correctly - that you're an electrician already?

Yes. The course is just another rip off to get us to keep the Training
Establishments in business. It is meant to be a 2 day course, but it will
be done in one [1], as, in their promotional web page " fully qualified
electricians will not need 2 days training, as the course is aimed at
beginners, hence day one will not be required for those who have
requisite prior knowledge"


>> Have you (or anyone with a charger) had a quote for the supply and
>> fitting, and how much of a Govmt. grant did you get, or were promised?
>
> For a Tesla charge point - which is external and so needs an addition
> earth point installed - I was quoted £800-something by one bloke and
> £1100-something by another bloke, plus the £450 for the Tesla charger
> itself. I didn't query the detail but I assumed both were net of any Gov
> subsidy.

Yes, making it up as they go along. I've seen a few, I'd say, at most, it
is 4 hours work, and a lot less for most.

> These were for what I feel is pretty much the simplest possible
> installation because the meter is in the garage and charge point would
> be on the front wall of the garage.

Yes, it is, so long as the earthing is done correctly. Supplying the
power is easy, getting the earthing right is a little more challenging.

> I'm tempted to just get a 32A socket installed in the garage (for a
> future electric bike) :-) and see how much that comes to. Hence the
> question above.

Can't see why not, if you can DIY, then go for it. The actual chargers
start at around £300, so £1100 is giving a decent profit to the
installer. That's why they don't advertise prices, they are artificially
high, as so few people are registered to put them in, and apply for the
Grant.

[1], it is actually less than 4 hours 'training', as there is a one hour
written exam, and 3 hours of practicals, which, to me, look like it'll be
1 hour of practical work. E.G. they allow 15 minutes for the design work,
this may take 5 minutes at most.

YTC#1

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Jul 12, 2021, 2:50:40 PM7/12/21
to
On 12/07/2021 14:28, Pipl wrote:
> Erk, this is longer than I thought.
>
> So far, so good. Range on a roughly 36 mile round-trip commute, riding
> on A roads and dual-carriageways at my usual commuting speed is fine;
> I get home with something like 45% charge remaining. Riding it harder
> than I'd usually ride the Guzzi gets the remaining charge down to
> around 40%.
>
> Last Thursday and Friday, I tried to wring two commutes out of one
> charge. This wasn't the best of times to do this: I've found that the
>

<snip>
An electric push bike is sounding more tempting :-)


--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

wessie

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Jul 12, 2021, 3:23:01 PM7/12/21
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Alan <alan@darkroom.+.com> wrote in
news:0u-dnag0HJ06-nH9...@brightview.co.uk:
ask in the Facebook UKRM as WUN has had one installed for his Chinese MG

Mark Olson

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Jul 12, 2021, 3:31:07 PM7/12/21
to
YTC#1 <bdpo...@ytc1-removespam.co.uk> wrote:
> On 12/07/2021 14:28, Pipl wrote:
>> Erk, this is longer than I thought.
>>
>> So far, so good. Range on a roughly 36 mile round-trip commute, riding
>> on A roads and dual-carriageways at my usual commuting speed is fine;
>> I get home with something like 45% charge remaining. Riding it harder
>> than I'd usually ride the Guzzi gets the remaining charge down to
>> around 40%.
>>
>> Last Thursday and Friday, I tried to wring two commutes out of one
>> charge. This wasn't the best of times to do this: I've found that the
>>
>
> <snip>
> An electric push bike is sounding more tempting :-)

The name suggests it could be 'push charged'...

I'm fairly certain I'll own an electric car sooner than I'll
own an electric motorcycle.

But I'm seriously thinking of an e-bike.

YTC#1

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Jul 12, 2021, 3:38:01 PM7/12/21
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On 12/07/2021 20:31, Mark Olson wrote:
> YTC#1 <bdpo...@ytc1-removespam.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 12/07/2021 14:28, Pipl wrote:
>>> Erk, this is longer than I thought.
>>>
>>> So far, so good. Range on a roughly 36 mile round-trip commute, riding
>>> on A roads and dual-carriageways at my usual commuting speed is fine;
>>> I get home with something like 45% charge remaining. Riding it harder
>>> than I'd usually ride the Guzzi gets the remaining charge down to
>>> around 40%.
>>>
>>> Last Thursday and Friday, I tried to wring two commutes out of one
>>> charge. This wasn't the best of times to do this: I've found that the
>>>
>>
>> <snip>
>> An electric push bike is sounding more tempting :-)
>
> The name suggests it could be 'push charged'...
:-)

I have to use the push bit to differentiate :-)

>
> I'm fairly certain I'll own an electric car sooner than I'll
> own an electric motorcycle.

Ditto
>
> But I'm seriously thinking of an e-bike.
>

Still a way off for that, but am keeping my eye on the conversion kits.
https://revolutionworks.com/

Pipl

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Jul 12, 2021, 5:56:21 PM7/12/21
to
On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 11:02:47 -0500, Alan <alan@darkroom.+.com> wrote:

>Have you (or anyone with a charger) had a quote for the supply and
>fitting, and how much of a Govmt. grant did you get, or were promised?

'fraid not: I simply charge off a 13A socket. The bike (claims) to
draw 2kW, so for 3.5 hours that's roughly 7kWH, or nearly 60% of the
nominal battery capacity, which roughly matches my usage.

--

-Pip

Boots

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Jul 12, 2021, 8:03:07 PM7/12/21
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On 12/07/2021 21:28 Pipl penned these words:
> Erk, this is longer than I thought.

Thanks. A way to go for e-bikes then? I am still tempted by the possibility of
a scooter if/when I can see if I can get the step-thru title swapped and find
no, however, power for me will be an issue.

--
Ian

"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of
the last priest"

John Dow

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Jul 13, 2021, 12:08:10 PM7/13/21
to
On 2021-07-12, YTC#1 <bdpo...@ytc1-removespam.co.uk> wrote:
> On 12/07/2021 14:28, Pipl wrote:
>> Erk, this is longer than I thought.
>>
>> So far, so good. Range on a roughly 36 mile round-trip commute, riding
>> on A roads and dual-carriageways at my usual commuting speed is fine;
>> I get home with something like 45% charge remaining. Riding it harder
>> than I'd usually ride the Guzzi gets the remaining charge down to
>> around 40%.
>>
>> Last Thursday and Friday, I tried to wring two commutes out of one
>> charge. This wasn't the best of times to do this: I've found that the
>>
>
><snip>
> An electric push bike is sounding more tempting :-)

I have an electric shaver. Does that count? It has the same horses as
my enfield.

Choobs

WUN

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Jul 13, 2021, 12:30:50 PM7/13/21
to
On Monday, July 12, 2021 at 5:02:49 PM UTC+1, Alan wrote:

> Have you (or anyone with a charger) had a quote for the supply and
> fitting, and how much of a Govmt. grant did you get, or were promised?

I got one fitted. I had a 32A supply to the garage, but my usage is...
unconventional (read: Bloody great lathe and milling machine...) so
there were some upgrades needed. Supplier got the £350 grant
using details from me, and the net cost to me was about £900.

It does appear to be something of a licence to print money,
several local installers didn't even respond to an emailed enquiry,
of wanted loads of photos before they'd estimate. These guys
were the only ones who both came out to see the installation,
then gave a quote, rather than an estimate.

--
WUN

YTC#1

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Jul 13, 2021, 2:24:57 PM7/13/21
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Shaving must be fun with those hooves

Champ

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Jul 14, 2021, 11:01:46 AM7/14/21
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On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 14:28:54 +0100, Pipl <plus...@live.co.uk> wrote:

>Erk, this is longer than I thought.

That happens when you commute by electric bike :-)
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

YTC#1

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Jul 14, 2021, 2:45:35 PM7/14/21
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On 14/07/2021 16:01, Champ wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 14:28:54 +0100, Pipl <plus...@live.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Erk, this is longer than I thought.
>
> That happens when you commute by electric bike :-)
>

<G>

Pipl

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Jul 14, 2021, 5:09:07 PM7/14/21
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On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 16:01:44 +0100, Champ <ne...@champ.org.uk> wrote:

>On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 14:28:54 +0100, Pipl <plus...@live.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Erk, this is longer than I thought.
>
>That happens when you commute by electric bike :-)

Badoom-tish!


--

-Pip

Hog

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Jul 21, 2021, 3:55:58 AM7/21/21
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Thanks to Pip for a great write up but for me they are all duds as yet. Hopefully solid state battery technology will come on apace.

I'm sure I'll never own an electric car but about the bikes, my Lunnon colleague like many other people ditched the bicycle for a bigger wheel push scooter which folded. Much more convenient in-city and they fairly fly up the Bayswater road. Electrified versions would be super handy https://swiftyscooters.com/collections/electric
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