Electrical problem on Honda CB 400 super 4
Guy Heatley
having with a grey import Honda CB 400 SF.
Last Sunday I was zooming around and all of a sudden the bike lost power
and conked out. I managed to start it again and it seemed to be back to
normal, but about a mile down the road it conked out again but this time
it wouldn't start. Highly inconvenient.
The battery was flat which was strange because I had recently topped it
up. I feel that the battery is not being charged from the alternator for
some reason. The battery seems to be in good condition and is reading
just under 13v (now I have recharged it).
Here is the puzzling part:
On this bike, the lights are on all the time i.e. there is no OFF switch
for the lights. When you rev the engine from tick-over the lights go
brighter as you would expect as the alternator kicks in. Then the lights
dim slightly as the revs increase - I suppose some sort of voltage
regulator comes into use.
BUT : I would have thought that the voltage at the battery terminals
should be about 13.5v so as to charge the battery as the revs increase,
but it isnt - its the same as the battery registers when it is
disconnected, just under 13v. ????
Sure, the voltage rises briefly at about 1500 revs - the lights get
brighter, but why doesnt it stay slightly over 13v at higher revs?
I have tested the rectifier and it is OK.
Comments and advice would be apreciated.
P.S. Someone told me that you shouldn't charge sealed batteries with a
normal charger, even at low current. Is this true?
--
Guy
(Delete .NO-SPAM to reply.)
Dumbass website: http://www.lantern25.demon.co.uk
Neil Murray
> I wonder if any of the you could give me some advice on a problem I am
> having with a grey import Honda CB 400 SF.
> Last Sunday I was zooming around and all of a sudden the bike lost power
> and conked out. I managed to start it again and it seemed to be back to
> normal, but about a mile down the road it conked out again but this time
> it wouldn't start. Highly inconvenient.
> The battery was flat which was strange because I had recently topped it
> up. I feel that the battery is not being charged from the alternator for
> some reason. The battery seems to be in good condition and is reading
> just under 13v (now I have recharged it).
Sounds like a duff regulator/rectifier
> Here is the puzzling part:
> On this bike, the lights are on all the time i.e. there is no OFF switch
> for the lights.
That's because it's prolly an American spec bike
> When you rev the engine from tick-over the lights go
> brighter as you would expect as the alternator kicks in. Then the lights
> dim slightly as the revs increase - I suppose some sort of voltage
> regulator comes into use.
> BUT : I would have thought that the voltage at the battery terminals
> should be about 13.5v so as to charge the battery as the revs increase,
> but it isnt - its the same as the battery registers when it is
> disconnected, just under 13v. ????
> Sure, the voltage rises briefly at about 1500 revs - the lights get
> brighter, but why doesnt it stay slightly over 13v at higher revs?
> I have tested the rectifier and it is OK.
Check again. Put a voltmeter across the battery terminals, and rev the
engine. The reading should rise from 12.5v or thereabouts to 13.5-14.5v.
If it doesn't, or shoots up beyond 16v, the reg/rec's had it.
>
> Comments and advice would be apreciated.
>
> P.S. Someone told me that you shouldn't charge sealed batteries with a
> normal charger, even at low current. Is this true?
Dunno.....
--
Neil 750S S GT750 CB400F CD175
The Older Gentleman
BOF #30 GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1
Rambling free
SPAM@nospam.net Lizard
check the fuel flow.. tank breather could be blocked..or fuel filter???
Guy Heatley wrote in message ...
>I wonder if any of the you could give me some advice on a problem I am
>having with a grey import Honda CB 400 SF.
>Last Sunday I was zooming around and all of a sudden the bike lost power
>and conked out. I managed to start it again and it seemed to be back to
>normal, but about a mile down the road it conked out again but this time
>it wouldn't start. Highly inconvenient.
>The battery was flat which was strange because I had recently topped it
>up. I feel that the battery is not being charged from the alternator for
>some reason. The battery seems to be in good condition and is reading
>just under 13v (now I have recharged it).
>Here is the puzzling part:
>On this bike, the lights are on all the time i.e. there is no OFF switch
>for the lights. When you rev the engine from tick-over the lights go
>brighter as you would expect as the alternator kicks in. Then the lights
>dim slightly as the revs increase - I suppose some sort of voltage
>regulator comes into use.
>BUT : I would have thought that the voltage at the battery terminals
>should be about 13.5v so as to charge the battery as the revs increase,
>but it isnt - its the same as the battery registers when it is
>disconnected, just under 13v. ????
>Sure, the voltage rises briefly at about 1500 revs - the lights get
>brighter, but why doesnt it stay slightly over 13v at higher revs?
>I have tested the rectifier and it is OK.
>
>Comments and advice would be apreciated.
>
>P.S. Someone told me that you shouldn't charge sealed batteries with a
>normal charger, even at low current. Is this true?
Neil Murray
> See if the volts across the battery plummets if u push the starter button..
>
> check the fuel flow.. tank breather could be blocked..or fuel filter???
>
>
*Thinks*
Flat battery = blocked fuel filter.
Yeah, right.
SPAM@nospam.net Lizard
Neil Murray wrote in message
<1desfkk.1a8...@host5-99-52-139.btinternet.com>...
>"Lizard" <NO SP...@NOSPAM.NET> wrote:
>
>> See if the volts across the battery plummets if u push the starter
button..
>>
>> check the fuel flow.. tank breather could be blocked..or fuel filter???
>>
>>
>*Thinks*
>
>Flat battery = blocked fuel filter.
>
>Yeah, right.
Somes times you need to ignore some of the evidence.. he seems stuck its
worth a try .. I have seen engines stripped down for just a leaky injector
..not a pretty sight..
clutches changed because of a car mat...
its worth a try..
signed
fully qualified and expeinced mechanic.
p.s
and your suggestion is??????
Neil Murray
> Neil Murray wrote in message
> <1desfkk.1a8...@host5-99-52-139.btinternet.com>...
> >"Lizard" <NO SP...@NOSPAM.NET> wrote:
> >
> >> See if the volts across the battery plummets if u push the starter
> button..
> >>
> >> check the fuel flow.. tank breather could be blocked..or fuel filter???
> >>
> >>
> >*Thinks*
> >
> >Flat battery = blocked fuel filter.
> >
> >Yeah, right.
>
> Somes times you need to ignore some of the evidence.. he seems stuck its
> worth a try .. I have seen engines stripped down for just a leaky injector
> ..not a pretty sight..
>
> clutches changed because of a car mat...
>
> its worth a try..
>
>
> signed
>
> fully qualified and expeinced mechanic.
>
>
> p.s
>
> and your suggestion is??????
>
>
See other posting!
Guy Heatley
writes
>See if the volts across the battery plummets if u push the starter button..
>
>check the fuel flow.. tank breather could be blocked..or fuel filter???
>
thing that sprang to my mind when it happened. The conk out was similar
to a fuel stoppage but it is the battery.
The voltage does drop on ignition, but not to worrying degree.
Guy Heatley
I connected the front indicators to light all the time. This is how they
were when I bought it and I figured that not dissipating that extra few
watts of power may be overloading something (although its a long shot).
I also found a connector inside the headlamp not properly pushed into
place. The wires that were going into it seemed to be of the colours
relevant to the ignition circuit.
The trouble with grey imports is that its hard to get hold of workshop
manuals / wiring diagrams that arnt in japanese.
I suppose I'll just have to run it and see if the battery goes flat
again. There's not even any point carrying jump leads about.
Ho hum.
Neil Murray
> I have been out on the bike this evening and there were no problems.
> I connected the front indicators to light all the time. This is how they
> were when I bought it and I figured that not dissipating that extra few
> watts of power may be overloading something (although its a long shot).
> I also found a connector inside the headlamp not properly pushed into
> place. The wires that were going into it seemed to be of the colours
> relevant to the ignition circuit.
> The trouble with grey imports is that its hard to get hold of workshop
> manuals / wiring diagrams that arnt in japanese.
> I suppose I'll just have to run it and see if the battery goes flat
> again. There's not even any point carrying jump leads about.
> Ho hum.
If it was a white wire there's a *strong* chance it was part of the
charging circuit.
Alan W. Frame
> "Lizard" <NO SP...@NOSPAM.NET> wrote:
>
> > See if the volts across the battery plummets if u push the starter button..
> >
> > check the fuel flow.. tank breather could be blocked..or fuel filter???
> >
> >
>
> Flat battery = blocked fuel filter.
>
> Yeah, right.
Err, Neil,
YM "blocked fuel filter = Flat battery "
As a Ducati owner you should be a aware that[1] a blocked fuel filter
can lead to higher current draw from the fuel pump that can bugger the
reg/reg and/or flatten the battery....
rgds, Alan
[1] On SS Ducatis.
--
Bike Security FAQ at <http://www.newtechd.demon.co.uk>
95 Ducati 600SS, 85 Guzzi V65TT, 74 MV Agusta 350 SI # 3.386
"Ride to Work, Work to Ride" DoD#1930
Neil Murray
> Neil Murray <neil.an...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> > "Lizard" <NO SP...@NOSPAM.NET> wrote:
> See if the volts across the battery plummets if u push the starter button..
>
> check the fuel flow.. tank breather could be blocked..or fuel filter???
>
> > >
>*Thinks*
> >
> > Flat battery = blocked fuel filter.
> >
> > Yeah, right.
>
> Err, Neil,
>
> YM "blocked fuel filter = Flat battery "
>
> As a Ducati owner you should be a aware that[1] a blocked fuel filter
> can lead to higher current draw from the fuel pump that can bugger the
> reg/reg and/or flatten the battery....
>
> rgds, Alan
> [1] On SS Ducatis.
Smartarse!
Alan W. Frame
> Alan W. Frame <alan....@acm.org> wrote:
>
> > Neil Murray <neil.an...@btinternet.com> wrote:
[]
> > > Flat battery = blocked fuel filter.
> > >
> > > Yeah, right.
> >
> > Err, Neil,
> >
> > YM "blocked fuel filter = Flat battery "
> >
> > As a Ducati owner you should be a aware that[1] a blocked fuel filter
> > can lead to higher current draw from the fuel pump that can bugger the
> > reg/reg and/or flatten the battery....
> >
> > rgds, Alan
> > [1] On SS Ducatis.
>
> Smartarse!
Well *I* didn't know if your "Yeah, right" was sarky or not...
rgds, Alan
Neil Murray
> Neil Murray <neil.an...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> > Alan W. Frame <alan....@acm.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Neil Murray <neil.an...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> []
> > > > Flat battery = blocked fuel filter.
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, right.
> > >
> > > Err, Neil,
> > >
> > > YM "blocked fuel filter = Flat battery "
> > >
> > > As a Ducati owner you should be a aware that[1] a blocked fuel filter
> > > can lead to higher current draw from the fuel pump that can bugger the
> > > reg/reg and/or flatten the battery....
> > >
> > > rgds, Alan
> > > [1] On SS Ducatis.
> >
> > Smartarse!
>
> Well *I* didn't know if your "Yeah, right" was sarky or not...
>
> rgds, Alan
Sarky, definitely sarky.
This clown claims to be (quote) a "fully qualified and expeinced (sic)
mechanic."
Wouldn't let him near any machinery of mine.
Alan W. Frame
> Alan W. Frame <alan....@acm.org> wrote:
> > Neil Murray <neil.an...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> > > Alan W. Frame <alan....@acm.org> wrote:
> > > > can lead to higher current draw from the fuel pump that can bugger the
> > > > reg/reg and/or flatten the battery....
> > > > [1] On SS Ducatis.
> > >
> > > Smartarse!
> >
> > Well *I* didn't know if your "Yeah, right" was sarky or not...
> Sarky, definitely sarky.
Oh, OK then - I'm just replying to this to point out that I've had the
best part[1] of a bottle of '55 Croft tonight, and very nice it was to.
:-)
rgds, Alan
[1] well it was approaching top-shoulder...
--
Bike Security FAQ at <http://www.newtechd.demon.co.uk>
95 Ducati 600SS, 85 Guzzi V65TT, 74 MV Agusta 350 SI # 3.386
"Ride to Work, Work to Ride" DoD#1910
Trevor Dennis
>"Lizard" <NO SP...@NOSPAM.NET> wrote:
>> See if the volts across the battery plummets
>>
>> check the fuel flow.. tank breather could be blocked..or fuel filter???
>*Thinks*
>
>Flat battery = blocked fuel filter.
>
>Yeah, right.
*more thinks*
WTF are battery plummets?
--
Trevor Dennis /`\ .(o~)-(o~). /`\ tre...@tdennnis.demon.co.uk
The Polite Brit / , \( _______ )/ , \ tden...@ford.com
OGH #1 ___/ /_\ /`"-------"`\ /_\ \___ Southern England
BS #1 jgs`~//^\~_`\ <__ __> /`_~/^\\~`
`~//^\\~`~//^\\~`
Matthew Cull
<tre...@tdennis.demon.co.uk> writes
>WTF are battery plummets?
Female plums or flaps to uncouth persons. They are kept in rows of
little cages and wankers who wear hats with ALF on the front let them
out occasionally where they then procede to wreak havoc among the male
population. Occasionally you get a rogue pair that have been converted
from plums to plummets but the ALF blokes just give them an MZ or GS850
to terrorise roundabouts with. So they arn't often much of a danger to
the male population unless you happen to be on the same roundabout at
the same time.
This was quoted from memory out of the Book of Old Dorset and Hampshire
Customs.
--
Matt - Dorset.
OT #4. TSTF2. AWA #3. TGMCC #8. UKMC #9.
It only takes two-strokes to get me excited.