ZZR1100: Any known horrors?
JB
Anyone have any knowledge of known horrors to look/listen/feel for?
Preferably based on fact rather than "a bloke in a pub once told me that his
mate's brother in law's ZZR...."
On paper the ZZR seems like a more 'modern' replacement for my old FJ for my
daily commute and longer trips.
At this stage I don't even know whether they are C or D models.
Any info appreciated.
Cheers.
JB
(1) 2 brothers bought matching bikes.
Vass
"JB" <n...@spam.net> wrote in message
news:i5qbgt$s1b$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
gearbox is a known weakness (or was back in the day)
--
Vass
JB
"Vass" <ma...@XXREMOVEXXdoubleyolk.co.uk> wrote in message
news:WradnZuiN78gKR3R...@eclipse.net.uk...
problem usually occurs? What was the problem exactly?
Thanks in advance.
JB
Krusty
A quick Google suggests the 2nd & 5th gear dogs go on C's & the 3rd on
D's. Symptoms are jumping out of gear.
--
Krusty
Raptor 1000 MV 750 Senna Tiger 955i Tiger 885 Fantic Hiro 250
TOG@Toil
As Vass says, second gear on Cs. Didn't know about 3rd gear on Ds. Oh,
and if it's whining, then the balancer shaft needs adjusting (yes, I
know it's gear-driven, but there's some sort of adjuster mechanism
just the same which frequently gets overlooked because, well, "because
it's gear-driven and doesn't need adjusting, does it?")
JB
"Krusty" <dontw...@nowhere.invalid> wrote in message
news:i5qdip$3b2$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
then. Ta for the info.
JB
JB
"TOG@Toil" <totallyde...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bdb029f4-2993-4cc2...@j18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
I suppose if there is any weak point in the drivetrain, ~150BHP will find
it. I may keep the old FJ1100 after all. One of my engines (a 'temporary'
fit until I sorted the burnt valve on the orginal) has the 2nd gear problem,
the original one didn't.
Cheers,
JB
Krusty
>
> "Krusty" <dontw...@nowhere.invalid> wrote in message
> news:i5qdip$3b2$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> >
> > A quick Google suggests the 2nd & 5th gear dogs go on C's & the 3rd
> > on D's. Symptoms are jumping out of gear.
> >
> > --
> I guess a browse of various owners' forums will be in order for this
> weekend then. Ta for the info. JB
Here's one to start you off
http://www.zzr-rg.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3996
Hog
You could go look for a ZZR1200. Amazing kit for 3 grand.
Though why you don't just buy a Gixxer Thou is a mystery ;o)
--
Hog
JB
"Hog" <sm91...@CHIPShotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4c80d749$0$2512$db0f...@news.zen.co.uk...
cheapness. SOBs rool.
> Though why you don't just buy a Gixxer Thou is a mystery ;o)
JB
JB
"Yuki" <not.provided@not> wrote in message
news:n2l186lhjk5naq3c5...@4ax.com...
>
> I still keep mine, a '92 C, bought new and owned a '90 that was damaged in
> an
> accident but later repaired by a friend.
>
> I never experienced personally any of the horror stories but the main
> failure
> mode is a tendency to spin third crankshaft bearing. This is very related
> with
> how the bike is used.
>
> Many of the bikes around died of that, even know somebody that managed to
> repeat
> the problem three times (fixed under warranty).
>
> The cause of the bearing failure has been discussed extensively in the net
> but
> the consensus seems to be a marginal lubrication system along with a slow
> return
> of oil from the camshaft space to the sump, leaving the pump dry. Third
> bearing
> is simply the weakest point.
> This slow return is aggravated doing wheelies or long times of hard
> acceleration
> (yes, I know) as the oil pools in the crankshaft space.
> Apparently, simply keeping the oil lever a bit over the upper mark is
> enough to
> make a big difference. Note that the level must be read with the engine
> hot,
> after 5 minutes rest.
>
> Balancing shaft is a non problem, noisy as hell if it's out of whack but
> its
> gear clearance is adjusted by an eccentrical screw and that's all. A
> slight
> annoyance is the tendency of it's oil seal to leak, must be replaced
> regularly.
>
> Mine is going fine with about 95Mm, the list of failures in 18 years are a
> rear
> damper, a punctured radiator and a blown cooling pipe.
>
> My first '90, repaired and used by a friend, had bearing failure at 135Mm,
> repeated at 210Mm, engine swapped, used for some years and then set aside
> due to
> general crumbling.
Excellent info. Thanks. A little worrying though. Did they fix the bearing
issue by the D model?
Cheers.
JB
JB
"Yuki" <not.provided@not> wrote in message
> On Fri, 3 Sep 2010 12:40:22 +0100, "JB" <n...@spam.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>Excellent info. Thanks. A little worrying though. Did they fix the bearing
>>issue by the D model?
>>Cheers.
>>JB
>>
>
> apparently
> made not a big difference.
>
> As I said it has been discussed extensively, many solutions proposed, even
> modified sumps but at the end the problem is that the pump sucks air in
> some
> conditions.
>
> What fails afterwards depends of tolerance stacking, oil used, and luck.
>
> Proposed remedy is high oil level, decent syntetic oil (I use Castrol
> 10-60W,
> the one for BMW M series, hot conditions here) and refrain for wheeling.
>
> The biggest factor is still the driver.
>
> Note that C handles better than D, both are decently comfortable in long
> trips
> at a speed, aside from difficulty of fitting luggage. Braking in both
> models is
> marginal, steel braided lines are a must.
Again thanks for the excellent info. You can't beat an owner's perspective.
As this is a possible replacement for my FJ1100, I don't think I'll worry
about the brakes or handling.
Cheers,
JB
Hog
> "Hog" <sm91...@CHIPShotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>> You could go look for a ZZR1200. Amazing kit for 3 grand.
> £3k?! I ain't no IT contractor. I'm talking sub £1k per bike here.
> Plenty cheapness. SOBs rool.
>> Though why you don't just buy a Gixxer Thou is a mystery ;o)
> Riiiiight. I couldn't afford the laundry bill in any case.
Apologies, I didn't realise you were a "Traveller"
--
Hog
JB
No. Just skint. My toys come waaaaay down the list.
JB
Nige
> Got a chance to pick up one, and possibly even the pair (1) of these soon.
I have had two, loved 'em to bits.
Cam tensioners can rattle
Balancer shaft makes a noise like a really fucked engine, but isnt
Clutch baskets can be a bit iffy
Cush drives can go a bit wonky
Wheels can crack
Much like any 20 year old bike i suppose, but they are great bikes, fucking
great. Ugly as a cunt with a mouldy minge, but great to ride.
--
Nige,
'Candygram for Mongo'
R1
Hog
Don't forget the ponderous steering and front brakes only just up to the job
--
Hog
Nige
>
> Don't forget the ponderous steering and front brakes only just up to the
> job
Steering is fine ofr a 20 year old bike, brakes are shit. Last one i had
some uprated calipers, they did stop it better.
Domènec
news:n2l186lhjk5naq3c5...@4ax.com...
> I never experienced personally any of the horror stories but the main
> failure
> mode is a tendency to spin third crankshaft bearing. This is very related
> with
> how the bike is used.
That's what I heard from seasoned ZZR MC [1] riders.
[1] Roman numerals :o)
Alex Ferrier
>
> Hog wrote:
>
>>
>> Don't forget the ponderous steering and front brakes only just up to the
>> job
>
> Steering is fine ofr a 20 year old bike,
No it isn't. They handle like a fucking oil tanker. Front end heavy POS.
--
Alex
BMW R1150GS MZ Saxon 301
DIAABTCOD#3 MSWF#4 UKRMFBC#6 Ibw#35 BOB#8
Windy's "little soldier"
Nige
> Nige wrote:
>>
>> Hog wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Don't forget the ponderous steering and front brakes only just up to the
>>> job
>>
>> Steering is fine ofr a 20 year old bike,
>
> No it isn't. They handle like a fucking oil tanker. Front end heavy POS.
Rubbish!!
Alex Ferrier
>
> Alex Ferrier wrote:
>> Nige wrote:
>>>
>>> Hog wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Don't forget the ponderous steering and front brakes only just up to
>>>> the
>>>> job
>>>
>>> Steering is fine ofr a 20 year old bike,
>>
>> No it isn't. They handle like a fucking oil tanker. Front end heavy POS.
>
> Rubbish!!
>
<shrug>
Nige
>>>
>>> No it isn't. They handle like a fucking oil tanker. Front end heavy POS.
>>
>> Rubbish!!
>>
>
> <shrug>
OK, it's no sportsbike, but it isnt meant to be, but i found mine perfectly
fine...
Hog
> Alex Ferrier wrote:
>>>>
>>>> No it isn't. They handle like a fucking oil tanker. Front end
>>>> heavy POS.
>>>
>>> Rubbish!!
>>>
>>
>> <shrug>
>
> OK, it's no sportsbike, but it isnt meant to be, but i found mine
> perfectly fine...
Loz will be along to sing its praises shortly but I agree with Alex. Fine
for doing 150 along a motorway but a bit of a front heavy shed in the tight
stuff. Compared to the the competition that is. I rode one a little then
switched to a Triumph T595, a year after it were launched. What a revelation
that was, even now that is a very fine bike.
--
Hog
frag
sm91...@CHIPShotmail.co.uk says...
>
> >>>> No it isn't. They handle like a fucking oil tanker. Front end
> >>>> heavy POS.
> >>>
> >>> Rubbish!!
> >>
> >> <shrug>
> >
> > OK, it's no sportsbike, but it isnt meant to be, but i found mine
> > perfectly fine...
>
> Loz will be along to sing its praises shortly but I agree with Alex. Fine
> for doing 150 along a motorway but a bit of a front heavy shed in the tight
> stuff. Compared to the the competition that is. I rode one a little then
> switched to a Triumph T595, a year after it were launched. What a revelation
> that was, even now that is a very fine bike.
I enjoyed riding mine around and keeping up on the FOTs.
It's no sports bike, the 9R handled a hell of a lot better, but the ZZR had
shed more torque low down and was better to ride for commuting when I was
tired or lazy.
--
frag
MicroPlanet Gravity Newsreader V3.0 http://mpgravity.sourceforge.net/
Lozzo
> I enjoyed riding mine around and keeping up on the FOTs.
>
> It's no sports bike, the 9R handled a hell of a lot better, but the
> ZZR had shed more torque low down and was better to ride for
> commuting when I was tired or lazy.
I'll agree with most of this, only I thought the 9R handled like shit
compared to the ZZR1100, but maybe that was just the Dunlop tyres my 9R
had that I hated so much. Enginewise the ZZR is grunty as all fuck, it
has torque from so low down and pulls like a train to the redline. They
can be hustled round corners, but it takes an idiot or a very good
rider to keep up with sports bikes on anything but fast A roads like
the A413 - I'll put myself in the former group in this instance. They
are extremely stable and as Alex said they are front heavy, and push
the front tyre way more than sports bikes do. I was wearing out tyres
as a pair on all three of mine - none of this one front to two rears
bollocks. Lazy riders will love them because you can literally short
shift into top and ride on a huge wave of torque for mile after mile
without changing down.
Just about every ZZR1100 needs or has already had a new exhaust system.
Stainless ones are available at about 500 quid. Budget for one if the
bike still has the original system fitted because they rot like fuck
and aren't easy to repair. Check steering head bearings, I had to
replace those in all three of mine. Also worth looking at is the rear
shock because most of hose I've seen in recent years have sat very low
at the back and have got no damping to speak of left. We recently broke
an immaculate C3 and a similar condition 1989 G plate ZX-10 at work,
and the only things that didn't make it onto ebay were their rear
shocks - they were both fucked.
If you're buying one factor in the price of a full service including a
vave shim check/adjustment, because they often get neglected as they
are so cheap to buy but expensive to dealer service now. Valve
clearances are easy to do as there's no cam removal needed, you just
slide the rocker over against the spring, wedge it there with a
screwdriver and flick the shim from the top of the bucket; it's that
simple to do and checking all 16 of them and replacing those that need
doing takes about 2 hours for a reasonably competent home mechanic.
Carbs take about 30 minutes to balance from start to finish if you know
what you're doing. They are an idel big bike to home service as
everything is simple to get to and doesn't require much in the way of
special tools. I have a home-made fork damper rod holding tool in my
toolbox of you need to do fork seals.
The brakes are shit and corrode at the slightest hint of damp which
makes the lever feel very spongy, but new pattern pistons are available
if needed with the two seals as a set from a company called Hi-Level.
They're ok as pattern parts go and as good as OE. You can easily fit
CBR600FX/FY or Firestorm calipers which are a huge improvement.
Like I said, I've had three of them and think they are wonderful bikes
for the money, cos they are cheap as chips now.
--
Lozzo
Versys 650 Tourer, CBR600F-W racebike in the making, TS250C, RD400F
(somewhere)
BMW E46 318iSE (it's a car, not one of those 2-wheeled pieces of shite
they churn out)
Wicked Uncle Nigel
<lo...@lozzo.org.uk> typed
(ZZR11s)
>are extremely stable and as Alex said they are front heavy, and push
>the front tyre way more than sports bikes do. I was wearing out tyres
>as a pair on all three of mine - none of this one front to two rears
>bollocks.
Me too as well. In fact this seems to be a Kawasaki speciality, since
the GTR's pretty much the same.
>Lazy riders will love them because you can literally short
>shift into top and ride on a huge wave of torque for mile after mile
>without changing down.
Not with Dave Corden following, you can't. He gets quite insistent on
the matter.
>The brakes are shit and corrode at the slightest hint of damp which
>makes the lever feel very spongy, but new pattern pistons are available
;^)
> think they are wonderful bikes
>for the money, cos they are cheap as chips now.
Wot he said.
--
Wicked Uncle Nigel - "He's hopeless, but he's honest"
Contains moderate bullshit and simulated opinions.
JB
"Lozzo" <lo...@lozzo.org.uk> wrote in message
news:8efnmp...@mid.individual.net...
horrors then?
If (and it's a big if), these 2 bikes are as good as I've been told, then I
may make an obscenely low offer for the pair. If these brothers get
'emotional' about the bikes or have unrealistic expectations of their actual
value, then they can keep them.
Cheers,
JB
Lozzo
> Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, Lozzo
> <lo...@lozzo.org.uk> typed
> > The brakes are shit and corrode at the slightest hint of damp which
> > makes the lever feel very spongy, but new pattern pistons are
> > available
>
> ;^)
Haha. Had I know that back then I wouldn't have put you to so much
trouble making me some. They are dirt cheap from Hi-Level.
Lozzo
>
> "Lozzo" <lo...@lozzo.org.uk> wrote
> > Like I said, I've had three of them and think they are wonderful
> > bikes for the money, cos they are cheap as chips now.
> >
> Thanks for the very useful info. I take it you never had any of the
> gearbox horrors then? If (and it's a big if), these 2 bikes are as
> good as I've been told, then I may make an obscenely low offer for
> the pair. If these brothers get 'emotional' about the bikes or have
> unrealistic expectations of their actual value, then they can keep
> them. Cheers, JB
Never had any gearbox problems at all, and I've only ever heard of it
happening to people I didn't know; no-one I knew at the time had any
problems either. Champ is the only person I know personally who ever
had no.2 conrod let go, but I have heard of others suffering this fate.
If it hasn't blown the fuck out of itself by now, it never will.
Wicked Uncle Nigel
<lo...@lozzo.org.uk> typed
>Wicked Uncle Nigel wrote:
>
>> Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, Lozzo
>> <lo...@lozzo.org.uk> typed
>
>> > The brakes are shit and corrode at the slightest hint of damp which
>> > makes the lever feel very spongy, but new pattern pistons are
>> > available
>>
>> ;^)
>
>Haha. Had I know that back then I wouldn't have put you to so much
>trouble making me some. They are dirt cheap from Hi-Level.
It really wasn't a lot of trouble, and it was an interesting job. I'm
glad you asked me to do it.
Wicked Uncle Nigel
>
>>
>> "Lozzo" <lo...@lozzo.org.uk> wrote
>
>> > Like I said, I've had three of them and think they are wonderful
>> > bikes for the money, cos they are cheap as chips now.
>> >
>> Thanks for the very useful info. I take it you never had any of the
>> gearbox horrors then? If (and it's a big if), these 2 bikes are as
>> good as I've been told, then I may make an obscenely low offer for
>> the pair. If these brothers get 'emotional' about the bikes or have
>> unrealistic expectations of their actual value, then they can keep
>> them. Cheers, JB
>
>Never had any gearbox problems at all, and I've only ever heard of it
>happening to people I didn't know; no-one I knew at the time had any
>problems either.
<Waves> I remember mine with great affection.
>Champ is the only person I know personally who ever
>had no.2 conrod let go
Yes, but he's a well known serial abuser of motorcycles.
Champ
>Champ is the only person I know personally who ever
>had no.2 conrod let go, but I have heard of others suffering this fate.
I think it was number 3, actually. But I could be wrong.
IIRC, the problem was put down to an assembly-line fault in Arkansas,
where the engine's were put together.
>If it hasn't blown the fuck out of itself by now, it never will.
*ding*
--
Champ
We declare that the splendor of the world has been enriched by a new beauty: the beauty of speed.
ZX10R | Hayabusa | GPz750turbo
neal at champ dot org dot uk
Champ
>Got a chance to pick up one, and possibly even the pair (1) of these soon.
>Anyone have any knowledge of known horrors to look/listen/feel for?
I owned a C then a D model, and loved them both deeply. Took both on
two-up trips across Europe with the wife on the back; with hard cases
they're fantastic tourers.
I've read the rest of the thread, and can only say that most of the
'known issues' are still pretty rare - I've never actually met anyone
who's had the gearbox problems.
My C did throw a rod out the front of the cases, but it was only a few
months old, and the work was done immediately on warranty, and was
fine for the many thousands of miles I did after that. The problem
was put down to a manufacturing fault.
With regard to other comments in the thread about their handling -
well, they're going to feel pretty old and lardy now. But, I recall
riding one after getting off my ZX10 (no "R" - the big bus from the
around 89/90) and being amazed at how well it steered in comparison.
The ZZR will definitely handle better than an FJ of slightly older
vintage.
Lozzo
> On 4 Sep 2010 20:37:07 GMT, "Lozzo" <lo...@lozzo.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > Champ is the only person I know personally who ever
> > had no.2 conrod let go, but I have heard of others suffering this
> > fate.
>
> I think it was number 3, actually. But I could be wrong.
>
> IIRC, the problem was put down to an assembly-line fault in Arkansas,
> where the engine's were put together.
The engine's what?
My first ZZR1100 was built in USA, my second and third were Japanese
made. The USA built one was far better made in terms of finish. Our
broken ZZR1100 at work has high mileage but still looked immaculate
when we took it in, that was also USA built.
Kevin
>The ZZR will definitely handle better than an FJ of slightly older
>vintage.
You say that but I'm not so sure. I switched from FJ12s to ZZR11s back
in the early 90s because, or so my memory tells me, the ZZR was a
better bike in all respects.
I have an FJ now that I love riding. The undercarriage scrapes way too
easily (not because I'm a great rider but because it's too low) but I
really like the way it handles; it probably helps that I have an
Ohlins rear shock on it and both front and rear suspension were set-up
by MCT.
I also have a ZZR11 that I bought some time ago and, somewhat stupidly
with hindsight, spent far too much money on it sorting out the brakes,
getting it serviced etc. before I'd done much riding on it. I still
haven't done much riding on it because I don't like the way it handles
at all - it just seems too long and ponderous.
Kevin
--
'10 1400GTR,'08 R1200GS,'07 K8 Hayabusa,'02 Dyna Super Glide,'90 FJ12
Alex Ferrier
>
> Champ wrote:
>>
>>The ZZR will definitely handle better than an FJ of slightly older
>>vintage.
>
> You say that but I'm not so sure. I switched from FJ12s to ZZR11s back
> in the early 90s because, or so my memory tells me, the ZZR was a
> better bike in all respects.
>
> I have an FJ now that I love riding. The undercarriage scrapes way too
> easily (not because I'm a great rider but because it's too low) but I
> really like the way it handles; it probably helps that I have an
> Ohlins rear shock on it and both front and rear suspension were set-up
> by MCT.
>
Agree.
I had both and the FJ12 (barring the crap ground
clearance) was a more sure footed, well balanced
bike. Surprisingly agile for all its bulk.
Champ
wrote:
>On Sat, 04 Sep 2010 22:31:22 +0100, Champ <ne...@champ.org.uk> wrote:
>
>>The ZZR will definitely handle better than an FJ of slightly older
>>vintage.
>
>You say that but I'm not so sure.
<shrug>
I did about 10k miles on an FJ1100 round Australia in 89/90, then got
a ZZR11 when I got back to England, so I have decent experience on
both.
But it's all so fucking long ago, isn't it.
Alex Ferrier
>
>>You say that but I'm not so sure.
>
> <shrug>
>
> I did about 10k miles on an FJ1100 round Australia in 89/90, then got
> a ZZR11 when I got back to England, so I have decent experience on
> both.
>
Yeah but FJ11s and pre '88 FJ12s had 16" inch front wheels.
The post '88 FJs all have 17" front wheels and consequently
better handling.
> But it's all so fucking long ago, isn't it.
Yep.