Leisure battery flat

[Whiskers]

Now proud owner of a proper campervan, but I think I may have killed
the leisure battery by letting it run flat. I thought they were meant
to be able to tolerate that sort of thing, but now I'm not so sure.

The present one is rated at 75AH which seems a bit small for a vehicle
with a fridge and likely to have very little time with a mains
connection.

I have now got a 6W solar 'battery conditioner' but it
seems to be too late for this battery.

Any advice would be most welcome!

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

[Roy]

Leaving the battery flat for a length of time will lead to its demise. 6
watts to recharge it is a bit optimistic.

Roy

[Whiskers]

Thanks.

Looks as though a trip to Halfords is in the offing then. I'm sure I'll
make other mistakes too as I learn the way of the campervan.

[bert]

In article <slrnonot2v.5...@ID-107770.user.individual.net>,
Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com> writes

Well the presence of a fridge is irrelevant to the size of battery or
its charge as the fridge never runs off the battery.
6W solar battery chargers are a waste of time IME.
Leisure (deep cycle) batteries are more resilient to discharge than
normal auto batteries so you may get away with it. Charge it up and
leave it disconnected for 24 hours then measure the voltage. Should be
12v. N.B. some modern chargers will not actually work on a totally flat
battery. Alternative is to put it in the campervan and go for a drive.
75ah (same as mine) is adequate unless you are a TV/computer addict.
--
Bert

[Whiskers]

On 2017-08-01, bert <be...@cghq.go.uk> wrote:
> In article <slrnonot2v.5...@ID-107770.user.individual.net>,
> Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com> writes
>>On 2017-07-29, Roy <r...@pikey.ie> wrote:
>>> Whiskers wrote on 28/07/2017 18:19:
>>>> Now proud owner of a proper campervan, but I think I may have killed
>>>> the leisure battery by letting it run flat. I thought they were meant
>>>> to be able to tolerate that sort of thing, but now I'm not so sure.
>>>>
>>>> The present one is rated at 75AH which seems a bit small for a vehicle
>>>> with a fridge and likely to have very little time with a mains
>>>> connection.
>>>>
>>>> I have now got a 6W solar 'battery conditioner' but it
>>>> seems to be too late for this battery.
>>>>
>>>> Any advice would be most welcome!
>>>>
>>>
>>> Leaving the battery flat for a length of time will lead to its demise. 6
>>> watts to recharge it is a bit optimistic.
>>>
>>> Roy
>>
>>Thanks.
>>
>>Looks as though a trip to Halfords is in the offing then. I'm sure I'll
>>make other mistakes too as I learn the way of the campervan.
>>
> Well the presence of a fridge is irrelevant to the size of battery or
> its charge as the fridge never runs off the battery.

My fridge is a 12v electric compressor fridge, and when the leisure
battery wasn't flat it did work and sounded just like the fridge at
home. It has no connection to the bottled gas that makes the cooker
work. It doesn't run off the engine-starter battery either.

> 6W solar battery chargers are a waste of time IME.

They're sold as 'battery conditioners'; I think the idea is that they
keep a charged battery topped up rather than charge it from flat. A
couple of sunny days did get the charge indicator up from 'flat - red
LED' to 'almost flat - amber LED' but it dropped back to red as soon as
the solar panel was disconnected. There was enough charge to run the
cabin LED strip lights for a short while.

> Leisure (deep cycle) batteries are more resilient to discharge than
> normal auto batteries so you may get away with it.

That was what I thought.

> Charge it up and
> leave it disconnected for 24 hours then measure the voltage. Should be
> 12v. N.B. some modern chargers will not actually work on a totally flat
> battery. Alternative is to put it in the campervan and go for a drive.
> 75ah (same as mine) is adequate unless you are a TV/computer addict.

Any idea how long a drive? 20 miles doesn't seem to have been enough,
but that was in slow moving stop-go urban traffic.

Thanks for responding :))

[bert]

In article <slrnoo228f.1...@ID-107770.user.individual.net>,

You need to check the spec for current (or power rating) and power usage
but the consumption should be fairly low so 75AH should be OK. Does your
fridge have battery monitoring? If so do a "suck it and see" test.

>It has no connection to the bottled gas that makes the cooker
>work. It doesn't run off the engine-starter battery either.
>

Maybe not directly but when the vehicle engine is running it will be
charging the battery supplying the fridge which is effectively the same
thing.

>> 6W solar battery chargers are a waste of time IME.
>
>They're sold as 'battery conditioners'; I think the idea is that they
>keep a charged battery topped up rather than charge it from flat. A
>couple of sunny days did get the charge indicator up from 'flat - red
>LED' to 'almost flat - amber LED' but it dropped back to red as soon as
>the solar panel was disconnected. There was enough charge to run the
>cabin LED strip lights for a short while.
>

I had a similar one. Didn't produce anything except in bright sunlight.
They should have a diode in the output circuit to prevent the battery
discharging back through the charger when its output falls.

>> Leisure (deep cycle) batteries are more resilient to discharge than
>> normal auto batteries so you may get away with it.
>
>That was what I thought.
>
>> Charge it up and
>> leave it disconnected for 24 hours then measure the voltage. Should be
>> 12v. N.B. some modern chargers will not actually work on a totally flat
>> battery. Alternative is to put it in the campervan and go for a drive.
>> 75ah (same as mine) is adequate unless you are a TV/computer addict.
>
>Any idea how long a drive? 20 miles doesn't seem to have been enough,
>but that was in slow moving stop-go urban traffic.
>

Alternators are capable of charging even when idling. If you don't have
a charger you could take the battery to a dealer and they will test it
for you.

>Thanks for responding :))
>

--

Bert

[Martin Dixon]

In message <1ijG4RHb...@m1.co>

I too have a van with a compressor fridge. I think this is the reason
why it has a larger leisure battery, I think from memory something
like 110AH, but recommended 160AH if you are likely to spend
significant time without a hook-up. A larger battery is certainly a
good idea, since although a solar panel helps, if roof mounted it is
unlikely to be large enough to power the fridge without help.
So if you have space for it I would recommend getting a larger leisure
battery than 75AH.



--
My weather station data is now uploaded to Weather Underground.
www.wunderground.com/personal-weather-station/dashboard?ID=IENGLAND1344
Local forecast at:
www.wunderground.com/q/zmw:00000.108.03418?sp=IENGLAND1344

[Whiskers]

On 2017-08-02, Martin Dixon <m.di...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> In message <1ijG4RHb...@m1.co>
> bert <be...@cghq.go.uk> wrote:
>
>> In article <slrnoo228f.1...@ID-107770.user.individual.net>,
>> Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com> writes
>>>On 2017-08-01, bert <be...@cghq.go.uk> wrote:
>>>> In article <slrnonot2v.5...@ID-107770.user.individual.net>,
>>>> Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com> writes
>>>>>On 2017-07-29, Roy <r...@pikey.ie> wrote:
>>>>>> Whiskers wrote on 28/07/2017 18:19:

[...]

> I too have a van with a compressor fridge. I think this is the reason
> why it has a larger leisure battery, I think from memory something
> like 110AH, but recommended 160AH if you are likely to spend
> significant time without a hook-up. A larger battery is certainly a
> good idea, since although a solar panel helps, if roof mounted it is
> unlikely to be large enough to power the fridge without help.
> So if you have space for it I would recommend getting a larger leisure
> battery than 75AH.

Thanks for responding.

Space, it transpires, is the limiting factor for my van; the compartment
holding the leisure battery won't take anything larger than the existing
75Ah unit.

I bought a multimeter for checking the battery and fuses, and found the
leisure battery reading only 2.3 volts and going for a drive made no
difference. The fuses seem to be OK. So I now have a new Halfords 70Ah
unit, which was supplied 'charged' so at present all the accessories
seem to be working properly. I'll use the 'battery conditioner' solar
panel for what it's worth - there's no way I can plug into the mains
while parked at home.

[Whiskers]

On 2017-08-02, bert <be...@cghq.go.uk> wrote:
> In article <slrnoo228f.1...@ID-107770.user.individual.net>,
> Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com> writes
>>On 2017-08-01, bert <be...@cghq.go.uk> wrote:
>>> In article <slrnonot2v.5...@ID-107770.user.individual.net>,
>>> Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com> writes
>>>>On 2017-07-29, Roy <r...@pikey.ie> wrote:
>>>>> Whiskers wrote on 28/07/2017 18:19:

[...]

> You need to check the spec for current (or power rating) and power usage
> but the consumption should be fairly low so 75AH should be OK. Does your
> fridge have battery monitoring? If so do a "suck it and see" test.

The dealer said the fridge would flatten the battery in 8 hours. It did
;)) He didn't warn me not to do that. I'll have to dig out the
literature that came with the fridge - I think it's packed into one of
the storage spaces in the van at the moment.

>>It has no connection to the bottled gas that makes the cooker
>>work. It doesn't run off the engine-starter battery either.
>>
> Maybe not directly but when the vehicle engine is running it will be
> charging the battery supplying the fridge which is effectively the same
> thing.
>>> 6W solar battery chargers are a waste of time IME.
>>
>>They're sold as 'battery conditioners'; I think the idea is that they
>>keep a charged battery topped up rather than charge it from flat. A
>>couple of sunny days did get the charge indicator up from 'flat - red
>>LED' to 'almost flat - amber LED' but it dropped back to red as soon as
>>the solar panel was disconnected. There was enough charge to run the
>>cabin LED strip lights for a short while.
>>
> I had a similar one. Didn't produce anything except in bright sunlight.
> They should have a diode in the output circuit to prevent the battery
> discharging back through the charger when its output falls.

The one I have says it's safe to leave connected overnight. We'll see!

>>> Leisure (deep cycle) batteries are more resilient to discharge than
>>> normal auto batteries so you may get away with it.
>>
>>That was what I thought.
>>
>>> Charge it up and
>>> leave it disconnected for 24 hours then measure the voltage. Should be
>>> 12v. N.B. some modern chargers will not actually work on a totally flat
>>> battery. Alternative is to put it in the campervan and go for a drive.
>>> 75ah (same as mine) is adequate unless you are a TV/computer addict.
>>
>>Any idea how long a drive? 20 miles doesn't seem to have been enough,
>>but that was in slow moving stop-go urban traffic.
>>
> Alternators are capable of charging even when idling. If you don't have
> a charger you could take the battery to a dealer and they will test it
> for you.

I've got a new 70Ah unit from Halfords (their 115 Ah units are too big
for the compartment in my van) so things are working now. I used a
multimeter to check the old battery and it registered only 2.3 volts,
after going for a drive, so I decided to replace it.

[bert]

In article <slrnoo6oh9.1...@ID-107770.user.individual.net>,

Worth checking the voltage at the battery terminals with the engine
running. Should read about 13.8 volts to show the battery is being
charged.
--
Bert

[Whiskers]

Sounds like a good tip. I'll try it and see what happens.

[bert]

In article <slrnoo6vf8.d...@ID-107770.user.individual.net>,

Well you do want to be sure your charging circuit is working, Shame to
knacker your new battery.
--
Bert

[Whiskers]

On 2017-08-04, bert <be...@cghq.go.uk> wrote:
> In article <slrnoo6vf8.d...@ID-107770.user.individual.net>,
> Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com> writes
>>On 2017-08-03, bert <be...@cghq.go.uk> wrote:
>>> In article <slrnoo6oh9.1...@ID-107770.user.individual.net>,
>>> Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com> writes
>>>>On 2017-08-02, Martin Dixon <m.di...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>>>> In message <1ijG4RHb...@m1.co>
>>>>> bert <be...@cghq.go.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In article <slrnoo228f.1...@ID-107770.user.individual.net>,
>>>>>> Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com> writes
>>>>>>>On 2017-08-01, bert <be...@cghq.go.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In article <slrnonot2v.5...@ID-107770.user.individual.net>,
>>>>>>>> Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com> writes
>>>>>>>>>On 2017-07-29, Roy <r...@pikey.ie> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Whiskers wrote on 28/07/2017 18:19:

[...]

>>> Worth checking the voltage at the battery terminals with the engine
>>> running. Should read about 13.8 volts to show the battery is being
>>> charged.
>>
>>Sounds like a good tip. I'll try it and see what happens.
>>
> Well you do want to be sure your charging circuit is working, Shame to
> knacker your new battery.

Inconclusive so far. The charge seems not to drop while parked with the
'battery conditioner' solar cell hooked up. It's steady at 12.8v. But
the voltage doesn't increase when the engine is running. I've checked
that the 40 amp fuse the dealer pointed out to me is OK, and followed
his instructions to put the fuse in while the engine is running 'so that
the electrics detect the leisure battery'.

So far the heaviest load I've put on the new battery is the car radio
(which does run off the leisure battery not off the engine-starter
battery - it didn't work at all when the leisure battery was flat, even
with the engine running).

Next I'll have to pluck up the nerve to run the fridge for a bit to see