Glasgow Electric Blue Trains - Class 303 - Paint Details etc.
Ian Robertson
Are they still available today? If so - from where?
Does anyone know the precise colours of blue and yellow that these
trains were painted in? (perhaps with reference to Pantone or CMYK
schemes) or the names and manufacturer of the paints?
Much obliged for any help with these questions. TIA.
Ian
David Breeze
>Were there ever any models of these units avalaible?
>
>Are they still available today? If so - from where?
>
3-car unit. They advertise in the model mags.
I quite fancy one of these, even though I'm modelling US N-scale, and
erm, French N too... I think I'd do my 303 in SPT black and orange (and
dirt) as that's how I'm used to seeing them. As I work in Glasgow I've
been making a point of taking occasional trips by 303 as they're
supposed to be withdrawn soon. Got to be the roughest ride of any train
I've ever been on! I think suspension was overlooked in the design...
Can't help with the paint, sorry.
--
Dave Breeze
Glasgow,
Scotland
Mick Bryan
"David Breeze" <Da...@sdscom.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1IV+aHA1...@sdscom.demon.co.uk...
> Ian Robertson <ir...@hotmail.com> writes
> >Were there ever any models of these units avalaible?
> >
> >Are they still available today? If so - from where?
> >
> DC Kits have recently brought out a kit for the 303. About £45 for a
> 3-car unit. They advertise in the model mags.
>
>
> Can't help with the paint, sorry.
> --
> Dave Breeze
>
Phoenix paints lists P145 - BR Caledonian Blue - for Glasgow Blue trains
on their website www.phoenix-paints.co.uk
HTH,
Mick
Jim Guthrie
<mi...@bryan20.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
Mick,
>Phoenix paints lists P145 - BR Caledonian Blue - for Glasgow Blue trains
>on their website www.phoenix-paints.co.uk
When the Blue Trains came out, they were painted in a (then) modern
representation of Caledonian Blue. I've still got the commemorative
handbook which was issued at the time of their inception and it gives
all details. It did, however, raise the question of which Caledonian
blue it should be :-)
IIRC, the underframes and wheel centres were a purple brown and not
black, and the yellow used was whatever the standard warning panel
yellow on BR was at the time. I remember the colour scheme quite
well since I repainted my Morris Traveller in the same colour scheme -
a Valspar blue enamel was a "dead ringer" for the main colour, the
wheels were painted in the purple-brown and the panel round the
radiator grill was done out in warning yellow :-).
I'd have to check when I get back home, but I think the yellow
warning panel at the front was not painted on the original stock, but
only came about a few years after their introduction.
Jim.
Mick Bryan
"Jim Guthrie" <j...@sprockets.co.uk> wrote in message
news:psi4kt49t3pevo3cf...@4ax.com...
Jim,
I would agree that the yellow panels were a later edition. As to the BR
version of Caley blue being correct - I wouldn't know - I'm not old
enough (or widely travelled enough at a tender age) to have seen them
before they started to acquire rail blue.
With regard to the underframes, the original standard colour for rail
blue stock was a purple/brown, however, this wasn't a long lasting
application and later superseded with black.
As with all paint shades, everyone has a different view of which is
correct depending on the lighting, weathering and how many pints of beer
one had last night! :-)
Cheers,
Mick
David Breeze
>IIRC, the underframes and wheel centres were a purple brown and not
>black, and the yellow used was whatever the standard warning panel
>yellow on BR was at the time. I remember the colour scheme quite
>well since I repainted my Morris Traveller in the same colour scheme -
>a Valspar blue enamel was a "dead ringer" for the main colour, the
>wheels were painted in the purple-brown and the panel round the
>radiator grill was done out in warning yellow :-).
I'm sure that would get you drummed out of the Morris Minor Owners Club!
Maybe I should paint one of the 2CVs to look like the TGV...
Jim Guthrie
<mi...@bryan20.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
Mick,
>I would agree that the yellow panels were a later edition. As to the BR
>version of Caley blue being correct - I wouldn't know - I'm not old
>enough (or widely travelled enough at a tender age) to have seen them
>before they started to acquire rail blue.
I know colour memory (especially 40 or so years old) is extremely
dodgy, but I think I remember the 303s being in a deeper blue than
Rail blue and they looked as though they had been varnished as well
since the paint finish had that depth that is missing on modern paint
finishes.
I seem to remember that application of yellow panels, and the driving
ends losing their wrap round glass windscreens, was about the same
time, or maybe the windscreens were a bit later. But the units did
lose their attractive appearance when they changed the screens.
These units were tremendously popular when they were introduced with
the North Clydeside electrification. They superceded the old LNER
V1/V3 tanks and Gresley 51' stock (which had run a pretty good service
up till then), but the cleanliness and quietness was a great
improvement, and asthma sufferers could venture into Queen Street Low
Level with no fears :-)
Shortly after their introduction, they had to be withdrawn because of
some serious faults in their electrics. The transformers, etc., were
housed in the guard's compartment and, IIRC, one guard was killed
when some item exploded. There then followed a fairly chaotic
period when a service had to be provided with what locos and stock
were available. Most of the Gresley stock had gone to the breakers
at Faslane, and the V1/V3 tanks had been dispersed to other areas.
So there followed a period of a right mixed bag of locos and coaching
stock, with some quite hefty motive power being supplied in a lot of
cases - and the drivers seemed to be determined to keep to the
electric schedules as well. I missed all this since I had moved to
London to start work, but I was kept in touch with what was going on
by a friend, who reported motive power like Black Fives and Jubilees
virtually doing dragster starts at stations trying to keep to
schedule. :-) By the time I moved back from London in the Summer of
1961, the Blue Trains had resumed normal service.
Jim.
Pete
The 51' Gresley stock you mentioned running behind V1/3's on Glasgow north
lines.
Do you know if there is a RTR version of these available. I assume they
would be in Maroon?
Cheers,
Pete ScRnews:moo5ktomao49a3ss6...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 4 Jul 2001 08:56:26 +0100, "Mick Bryan"
> <mi...@bryan20.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Mick,
>
> >I would agree that the yellow panels were a later edition. As to the BR
> >version of Caley blue being correct - I wouldn't know - I'm not old
> >enough (or widely travelled enough at a tender age) to have seen them
> >before they started to acquire rail blue.
Jim Guthrie
wrote:
Pete,
>The 51' Gresley stock you mentioned running behind V1/3's on Glasgow north
>lines.
>Do you know if there is a RTR version of these available. I assume they
>would be in Maroon?
I'm not up in the availability of certain prototypes in RTR condition
- maybe others can chip in with suggestions. I'm pretty sure you
can get kits for the stock in 4mm (I'm assuming that scale) since they
were the common compartment stock on the LNER/BR(E).
The colour I clearly remember was all over maroon, with probably very
faint childhood memories of the teak finish before they were
re-painted at the start of BR.
I also remember articulated pairs as well - i.e. two bodies on three
bogies with a shared central bogie between the coach inner ends.
Jim.
Mick Bryan
> On Wed, 4 Jul 2001 08:56:26 +0100, "Mick Bryan"
> <mi...@bryan20.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Mick,
>
> >I would agree that the yellow panels were a later edition. As to the
BR
> >version of Caley blue being correct - I wouldn't know - I'm not old
> >enough (or widely travelled enough at a tender age) to have seen them
> >before they started to acquire rail blue.
>
> I know colour memory (especially 40 or so years old) is extremely
> dodgy, but I think I remember the 303s being in a deeper blue than
> Rail blue and they looked as though they had been varnished as well
> since the paint finish had that depth that is missing on modern paint
> finishes.
Ahhhh - them were the good old days............. :-)
>
> I seem to remember that application of yellow panels, and the driving
> ends losing their wrap round glass windscreens, was about the same
> time, or maybe the windscreens were a bit later. But the units did
> lose their attractive appearance when they changed the screens.
>
<useful historical stuff snipped>
Jim,
I would think that the yellow was applied long before the change in
windscreens - probably early/mid 60's. I would guess that the flat
windscreens came in as the units were overhauled during the late
70's/early 80's. Similarly, classes 309 and 310 lost their curved
screens for flat ones. I believe the principal reason for changing to
flat screens was that flat screens could be easily (i.e. cheaper) made
from toughened glass to protect the driver from the toerags who chuck
bricks off bridges.
Like the 303/311, the 309 & 310 lost a lot of the "groovy" 60's look
when the curved screens were removed.
Cheers,
Mick
p.s. who may just be tempted to do a 303 to go with his 17 and 06.
Charles Craig
13 year old taking the Blue Train from Bridgeton to
Balloch and return for an evening's entertainment - more
fun than homework, particularly if it was wet and stormy,
and, of course, you were almost driving the train sitting
only a foot or so behind and alongside the driver.
I've noticed that the Eastbank Model Railway Club
has a series of photographs which answer some of the
questions asked in this thread about colour schemes and
windows - although my memory says the original scheme
had a roundel of the same sort appearing on maroon
pasenger stock - can't see it in the photographs though.
http://www.eastbank.btinternet.co.uk/303.htm
Best Regards
Charles
"Jim Guthrie" <j...@sprockets.co.uk> wrote in message
news:t4r7ktk1k3qsulh6t...@4ax.com...
Jim Guthrie
<sirc...@tig.com.au> wrote:
Charles,
>An interesting discussion bringing back memories as a
>13 year old taking the Blue Train from Bridgeton to
>Balloch and return for an evening's entertainment - more
>fun than homework, particularly if it was wet and stormy,
>and, of course, you were almost driving the train sitting
>only a foot or so behind and alongside the driver.
>
I can remember sometimes unholy scrambles to get the seats behind the
driver :-) We soon became world experts on colour light signals,
AWS and how to drive a locomotive :-)
I think their maximum speed was 75 mph and you could sometimes get
close to that on a run from Old Kilpatrick down the Bowling Bank and
along the Clyde shore to Dumbarton East, especially after they closed
the old Caley line, and straightened out the dogleg at the junction
with that line just north of Bowling.
>I've noticed that the Eastbank Model Railway Club
>has a series of photographs which answer some of the
>questions asked in this thread about colour schemes and
>windows - although my memory says the original scheme
>had a roundel of the same sort appearing on maroon
>pasenger stock - can't see it in the photographs though.
If I get a chance this weekend, I'll try and dig out the big glossy
BR handbook that was issued at their inception which has, IIRC,
quite a lot of good colour photos. I've got a good few photos taken
at the same time, but they're all transparencies - which was the
preferred method at the time so that you could bore your relatives
with a slide show, even one of the a Blue Train passing Dumbarton
East working as a royal train when it conveyed HM Queen to Glasgow.
IIRC, she was visiting somewhere down the Clyde shortly after the
North Side electrification opened, and a Blue Train seemed to be the
most obvious choice to transport her back to the capital***. I can't
remember what headcode it carried - it might be obvious from my photo.
I honestly can't remember any emblem on the sides in their original
colour scheme, but I could be wrong :-)
Jim.
*** For people puzzled by that statement, anyone from the West of
Scotland knows that Glasgow is the real capital :-)
Cue Edinburgh/Glasgow flame war :-)
The only good thing out of Edinburgh is the Glasgow train, etc., etc.
:-)
Ian Robertson
>IIRC, the underframes and wheel centres were a purple brown and not
>black, and the yellow used was whatever the standard warning panel
>yellow on BR was at the time. I remember the colour scheme quite
>well since I repainted my Morris Traveller in the same colour scheme -
>a Valspar blue enamel was a "dead ringer" for the main colour, the
>wheels were painted in the purple-brown and the panel round the
>radiator grill was done out in warning yellow :-).
Many thanks for the info on the paint colours. What a great idea. How
about sharing a pic of that car with us, Jim? It will have been quite
unique. Not another like it anywhere before or since. I'd love to see
it.
David Breeze from Glasgow wrote:
>DC Kits have recently brought out a kit for the 303. About £45 for a
>3-car unit. They advertise in the model mags.
>I quite fancy one of these, even though I'm modelling US N-scale, and
>erm, French N too... I think I'd do my 303 in SPT black and orange >(and
>dirt) as that's how I'm used to seeing them.
Thanks for the info on the model kits, David. Much obliged. But - oh
no! You surely can't be even thinking about doing a black and orange
job on one of these classic units. Hey! A Blue Train is a Blue Train.
Not a poor imitation of a Glasgow Corpy Leyland Antlantean. The people
who choose these appalling colours (black and orange) don't know
anything about trains (or buses). Just a crowd of 'Cooncillors' who
don't love them at all. I'm not a fan of this SPT thing. Bring back
good old BR in a hurry. Pleeease, reconsider....;-)
Mick Bryan wrote:
>Phoenix paints lists P145 - BR Caledonian Blue - for Glasgow Blue >trains
>on their website www.phoenix-paints.co.uk
Thanks, Mick. I ordered some up. Saved me a lot of hassle.
Charles Craig wrote:
>An interesting discussion bringing back memories as a
>13 year old taking the Blue Train from Bridgeton to
>Balloch and return for an evening's entertainment - more
>fun than homework, particularly if it was wet and stormy,
>and, of course, you were almost driving the train sitting
>only a foot or so behind and alongside the driver.
Them were the days, eh, Charles? You will always remember them. Me
too.
Jim Guthrie wrote:
>I can remember sometimes unholy scrambles to get the seats behind the
>driver :-) We soon became world experts on colour light signals,
>AWS and how to drive a locomotive :-)
>
>I think their maximum speed was 75 mph and you could sometimes get
>close to that on a run from Old Kilpatrick down the Bowling Bank and
>along the Clyde shore to Dumbarton East, especially after they closed
>the old Caley line, and straightened out the dogleg at the junction
>with that line just north of Bowling.
I know what you mean exactly. Well put. The best bit for me was
Gourock-bound at dusk, the red, sinking sun in the West, when she
picked up speed out of Glasgow Central and ran parallel with the
motorway, greeny-blue sparks flying from the pantograph, easily
passing all the cars heading for Greenock, and we could wave to the
occupants - who, strange to say, invariably waved back. Sad or what?
;-)
There's no doubt you've both knocked the nail on the head here and
summed up the 'magic' of the Blue Trains in just a few lines. I was
one of the many other 13 year olds - but, as you've guessed, on the
south side network. The 303s were almost 'interactive' and IMHO much
better than anything Mr Sony has to offer the kids today. However, I
often wondered how the drivers felt with all those little faces
pressed up against the glass virtually 'willing' themselves into the
cab for a shot on that big handle. Remember how you always knew the
crabbit one who hated weans? - He pulled down the blinds. Fortunately
he was the exception rather than the rule.
I am ashamed to admit that I still dream about driving one of these
Blue Trains, yet I have a sneaky feeling I will die unfulfilled.
Unlike bus driving (which I tried once to get it out my system)
getting behind the controls of a 303 for a sprint round, say, the
Cathcart Circle seems an almost impossible feat to achieve. I don't
think even Jimmy Saville could 'fix' it. Too many imponderables, and I
guess the passengers wouldn't care too much for the idea either.
Finally - I am curious about the start up routine. When the driver
came on shift in the cab I seem to remember he performed a series of
tasks before preparing to move off on a green. Was there something to
do with a key he insterted in a hole on the instrument panel and wound
up till a buzzer sounded? I'd been keen to have this clarified if
anyone can recall. The shutdown prodcedure at Glasgow Central, or
wherever, was easier. Void the air tanks and get away sharpish for a
cuppy (at least I think that's what he went away sharpish for).
Jim Guthrie wrote:
>*** For people puzzled by that statement, anyone from the West of
>Scotland knows that Glasgow is the real capital :-)
>
>Cue Edinburgh/Glasgow flame war :-)
>
>The only good thing out of Edinburgh is the Glasgow train, etc., etc.
You're spot on, of course, Jim. Reminds me of those lines from Andy
Stewart's monologue <The Rumour>....
"...but, oh, the tone grew more discreet, as it passed up Leith Walk
and along the length of Princes Street. There someb'dy took it on a
train to Glasgow, and that's how, if you live there, you'll probably
have heard The Rumour now."
Thank you, gentlemen, for all the interesting, expert information and
reminiscences. Call me a pathetic old bufty if you like - but
honestly. You've made my day. Really you have. I can almost smell the
reek of the coach cloth.........
We don't have ANYTHING the like of this 'enchantment' over here.
Two bells. I'm away. First stop - Pollokshields East......
Ian Robertson (Southampton, Ont. Canada)
Jim Guthrie
Dave,
>Many thanks for the info on the paint colours. What a great idea. How
>about sharing a pic of that car with us, Jim? It will have been quite
>unique. Not another like it anywhere before or since. I'd love to see
>it.
I'll have to go back through the family archives and see if there's a
shot of it. I'm sure there must be since my wife did the hand
painting and she did an excellent job, and was very proud of it.
The next thing that was going to be fitted was a set of twin tone air
horns, but we never got round to that. It was just at the start of
the craze for the multi-tone horns which played things like "Colonel
Bogie", but wife had heard that these types of horn were illegal and
didn't want them fitted. She did most of the driving in the
Traveller - I spent most of my driving life on Triumph Speed Twins or
Jampot AJSs.
Jim.
John Nuttall
What colour did you paint the wood? Or did you leave it as varnished teak?
:-)
--
Regards
John
Far away is close at hand in images of elsewhere.
Pete
always saw the North Clyde lines as being more interesting. There seemed to
be more variation ie NB Class29's, Class 17 Claytons and the Class26's from
Eastfield. I remember going to Scotstoun Showground for school sports and
standing watching the passing trains, which was seen as unusual for a tough
Glasgow Comprehensive schoolboy at the time!
I also remember Bridgeton with its carriage washer. I also have bad memories
too. This was the nearest station to Celtic's football ground at the time
and as you can imagine was a bit busy on match days. I remember getting
crushed against the sliding doors as they were opening and getting my
fingers trapped between door and body side. Happy days!!
Pete ScR
Charles Craig <sirc...@tig.com.au> wrote in message
news:9i1ibq$8q0$1...@bugstomper.ihug.com.au...
old...@interalpha.co.uk
wrote:
>
>I think their maximum speed was 75 mph and you could sometimes get
>close to that on a run from Old Kilpatrick down the Bowling Bank and
>along the Clyde shore to Dumbarton East, especially after they closed
>the old Caley line, and straightened out the dogleg at the junction
>with that line just north of Bowling.
>
>
Out of curiosity how long did the name Blue Trains remain in common
use for the services.
I took a special to Mallaig (from Paddington of all places!) .Getting
a good nights kip in the comfortable mk1 compartment awoke around dawn
in the environs of Glasgow. I think we had stopped somewhere on the
outskirts and taken on a local crew,as a guard with an accent I could
never reproduce gave a warning to those passengers taking the air near
the door windows.
The gist of it was we were on a Blue train route and they moved so
fast you might get your head back in time because they were swift.
no swearing I hasten to add. just a polite firmness.
This was about 1978 when almost all trains were blue anyway and as it
was more of a sightseeing train than a railnut special the blue train
reference puzzled some passengers as to them all trains were mainly
blue/grey.
G.harman
Ian Robertson
>>How about sharing a pic of that car with us, Jim? It will have been quite
>>unique. Not another like it anywhere before or since. I'd love to see
>>it.
>
>I'll have to go back through the family archives and see if there's a
>shot of it. I'm sure there must be since my wife did the hand
>painting and she did an excellent job, and was very proud of it.
Please do - and I'll bet she did a great job too.
>
>The next thing that was going to be fitted was a set of twin tone air
>horns, but we never got round to that. It was just at the start of
>the craze for the multi-tone horns which played things like "Colonel
>Bogie", but wife had heard that these types of horn were illegal and
>didn't want them fitted. She did most of the driving in the
>Traveller - I spent most of my driving life on Triumph Speed Twins or
>Jampot AJSs.
But wouldn't it have been cool with one of those horns giving it
perfect fourths every time someone stepped out of line? I hope you
manage to find that picture. TIA
I take it you were more into bikes then?
Ian
Jim Guthrie
<jo...@jwnuttall.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
John,
>What colour did you paint the wood? Or did you leave it as varnished teak?
>:-)
Varnished oak, my dear sir :-) Remember, we're talking about a
British car :-)
Jim.
Jim Guthrie
>Out of curiosity how long did the name Blue Trains remain in common
>use for the services.
Well, I still think of them as "Blue Trains" :-)
But I remember the term being in common use up till I left Scotland in
1980. I dare say the livery changes in recent years have probably
rendered it redundant.
I also think the term was peculiar to the North Clydeside area since I
can't remember the term being used by people who used the South side
and Cathcart Circle units when they were electrified some years after.
Jim.
Jim Guthrie
Ian,
>But wouldn't it have been cool with one of those horns giving it
>perfect fourths every time someone stepped out of line?
That was the intention :-)
>
>I take it you were more into bikes then?
I hardly drove a car for private use up till a few years ago.
Jim.
Bill Bedford
> On Wed, 4 Jul 2001 22:56:27 +0100, "Pete" <pe...@deg2.freeserve.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> Pete,
>
> >The 51' Gresley stock you mentioned running behind V1/3's on Glasgow north
> >lines.
> >Do you know if there is a RTR version of these available. I assume they
> >would be in Maroon?
>
> I'm not up in the availability of certain prototypes in RTR condition
> - maybe others can chip in with suggestions. I'm pretty sure you
> can get kits for the stock in 4mm (I'm assuming that scale) since they
> were the common compartment stock on the LNER/BR(E).
They were 55' 6" twins with IIRC 51' Firsts
> The colour I clearly remember was all over maroon, with probably very
> faint childhood memories of the teak finish before they were
> re-painted at the start of BR.
>
> I also remember articulated pairs as well - i.e. two bodies on three
> bogies with a shared central bogie between the coach inner ends.
>
> Jim.
--
"Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time."
Bill Bedford
Charles Craig
Ian's comment about the odd so-an'-so that might pull
down the blind - but there weren't too many of them.
I'm fascinated too by Ian's recall of the start-up procedure and the key -
which might have come out of a leather pouch, but I'm more probably
recalling single line working
of Railmotors in outback New South Wales. I guess the start-up procedure
might remain current and someone in Glasgow might be able to fill in the
details.
When Jim Guthrie spoke of the replacement of the wrap-
around windows I thought to myself - "what's he talking
about - I've got pictures of those - the windscreens are
the same as they've always been" - but clearly they're not
when you look to see what is there, rather than see what you expect to see.
The 'pictures' I speak of are in a publication "British Railways Past and
Present - South West Scotland" and, informatively, a caption therein says
"Unit No: 303048 has been restored to this (original) livery and is used on
special occasions". It seems there may be a close representation of the
original somewhere near Glasgow
which might be sought out.
Ian also thereby raises the question that when David Breeze, who seems to be
the only truly loyal Glaswegian amongst us (i.e. living there), says he
wants to paint his Blue Train in black and orange, it may be the D.C.Kits
model features the neutered, rather than wrap-around front, and black and
orange should be the appropriate colour scheme for the model.
Can anyone say how the D.C.Kits 303 measures up ??
Best regards from Brisbane.
Charles
Jim Guthrie
<sirc...@tig.com.au> wrote:
Charles,
>The 'pictures' I speak of are in a publication "British Railways Past and
>Present - South West Scotland" and, informatively, a caption therein says
>"Unit No: 303048 has been restored to this (original) livery and is used on
>special occasions". It seems there may be a close representation of the
>original somewhere near Glasgow
>which might be sought out.
I'm glad to hear that one unit has been preserved. It will be a
great reminder of what was arguably the most successful scheme in the
BR Modernisation Programme of the 1950s.
The BR management handled it really well with the units being built,
IIRC, in the Pressed Steel Works in Paisley, and painted in Scottish
pre-Grouping colours - so making it very much a local Clydeside event.
They did a lot of pre publicity - like the large glossy booklet I
mentioned earlier - and when the trains started, they were fast,
clean, comfortable and ran on time. Even the problem with the
electric on-board equipment was sorted out quite quickly and soon
forgotten about by the travelling public.
At that time, Harold MacMillan was telling us "We'd never had it so
good" and he was correct as far as rail travellers on North Clydeside
were concerned.
I've always wanted to model the units, but the wrap round windows
have always put me off - one of these days I might pluck up courage
:-)
Jim.
Ian Robertson
wrote:
>On Thu, 05 Jul 2001 23:04:37 GMT, old...@interalpha.co.uk wrote:
Just out of interest, Jim - south-siders also referred to the 'new'
electric units as 'Blue Trains' right from the word go IIRC. In fact I
had no idea there were any 'Blue Trains' north of the river until I
went to see my aunty in Milngavie. But of course 'youz' were first ;-)
Ian
Ian Robertson
<sirc...@tig.com.au> wrote:
>Ian also thereby raises the question that when David Breeze, who seems to be
>the only truly loyal Glaswegian amongst us (i.e. living there), says he
>wants to paint his Blue Train in black and orange, it may be the D.C.Kits
>model features the neutered, rather than wrap-around front, and black and
>orange should be the appropriate colour scheme for the model.
>Best regards from Brisbane.
>
>Charles
Of course you are quite correct, Charles. It's very easy for the likes
of us who cleared off years ago (me for economic reasons) to make
inappropriate suggestions from places like Toronto, Jo'Burg,
Wellington, Brisbane and all other 'airts and pairts' (even England)
about which colours a loyal Glasgow man should paint his 303. It was
an awfy cheek on my part and I stand humbled. Apologies to anyone
offended - especially David.
Gawn yersel, son. Orange & Black are magic colours ;-)
I think perhaps I was recalling how, in the 1960s, colour film and the
processing of it was dear. Therefore, working on a very limited budget
as I was then, most of the pics I have of 'Blue Trains' are actually
in Black & White. These are always a source of great discomfort to me
every time I view them ;-) So I guess it was terribly cheeky monkey of
me to express concern about any other 'colours'.
We all have our own recollections of the 'definitive Blue Train' -
which to me is best represented by the pictures 4th, 5th and 6th down
from the top shown here: http://www.eastbank.btinternet.co.uk/303.htm
A really excellent site too.
David Breeze
>Of course you are quite correct, Charles. It's very easy for the likes
>of us who cleared off years ago (me for economic reasons) to make
>inappropriate suggestions from places like Toronto, Jo'Burg,
>Wellington, Brisbane and all other 'airts and pairts' (even England)
>about which colours a loyal Glasgow man should paint his 303. It was
>an awfy cheek on my part and I stand humbled. Apologies to anyone
>offended - especially David.
Nae botha big man! Dinnae worry aboot it.
>
>Gawn yersel, son. Orange & Black are magic colours ;-)
:-)
David Breeze
I thought it was ash, but I wouldn't swear to it. My dad set about
restoring one in the 70's, but he didn't have time and it ended up in
the scrap yard.
David Breeze
>
>Thanks for the info on the model kits, David.
You're welcome. I didn't realise you were in Canada, so I could post the
contact details for DC Kits if you want, next week. The kit is briefly
reviewed in this month's Model Rail.
>Much obliged. But - oh
>no! You surely can't be even thinking about doing a black and orange
>job on one of these classic units. Hey! A Blue Train is a Blue Train.
>Not a poor imitation of a Glasgow Corpy Leyland Antlantean. The people
>who choose these appalling colours (black and orange) don't know
>anything about trains (or buses). Just a crowd of 'Cooncillors' who
>don't love them at all. I'm not a fan of this SPT thing. Bring back
>good old BR in a hurry. Pleeease, reconsider....;-)
Well, I know what you mean, but on the other hand I never saw them in
their original scheme, so I'm enjoying them as they approach retirement
in dirt and black (with a spot of orange). So really I need two sets,
one done for the start of their career and one for the end!
David Breeze
>You've brought tears to my eyes, Gents. Particularly
>Ian's comment about the odd so-an'-so that might pull
>down the blind - but there weren't too many of them.
All a thing of the past now of course, as the cab is partitioned off
now, just a door marked 'private'.
>
>When Jim Guthrie spoke of the replacement of the wrap-
>around windows I thought to myself - "what's he talking
>about - I've got pictures of those - the windscreens are
>the same as they've always been" - but clearly they're not
>when you look to see what is there, rather than see what you expect to see.
I had the same reaction. But when you look at them now, the original
windscreen shape is painted in black, so they still have the same 'look'
as with the wrap-around screens.
>
>Ian also thereby raises the question that when David Breeze, who seems to be
>the only truly loyal Glaswegian amongst us (i.e. living there),
...and my parents are from Northumberland!
>says he
>wants to paint his Blue Train in black and orange, it may be the D.C.Kits
>model features the neutered, rather than wrap-around front, and black and
>orange should be the appropriate colour scheme for the model.
The picture in Model Rail shows the kit's cab front with the 3 flat
windows, but you would think they would do both types. I think the
modern windows are entirely within the area of the original ones, so
maybe you just cut away the excess plastic if you want the wrap-around
ones.
Jim Guthrie
<Da...@sdscom.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Dave,
>I thought it was ash,
You might be right :-) It's been 35 years since I did the work :-)
Jim.
Ian Robertson
<Da...@sdscom.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Ian Robertson <ir...@hotmail.com> writes
>>
>>Thanks for the info on the model kits, David.
>
>You're welcome. I didn't realise you were in Canada, so I could post the
>contact details for DC Kits if you want, next week. The kit is briefly
>reviewed in this month's Model Rail.
Thanks, David. That would be most kind of you. I fancy building one
for old time's sake, and also as it would be something of a
conversation piece over here. A change from boats and snowmobiles ;-)
>
>>Much obliged. But - oh
>>no! You surely can't be even thinking about doing a black and orange
>>job on one of these classic units.
> >Gawn yersel, son. Orange & Black are magic colours ;-)
>Nae botha big man! Dinnae worry aboot it.
Glad there's been no offence taken. I should learn to keep my mouth
shut. Perhpas you'll let us know when you finish the kit and then
maybe a pic. That would be nice.
Take care.
David Jackson
from Jim Guthrie <j...@sprockets.co.uk> contains these words:
> >I thought it was ash,
> You might be right :-) It's been 35 years since I did the work :-)
In factory-fresh condition it was ash. Once the varnish became
chipped, and water got to the wood, then complete replacement was the
only answer, but it wasn't an easy job no matter which wood you used.
I always wished I had owned a Traveller, but I had just the saloon
versions, and a van and a pick-up at various times.
--
Dave,
Frodsham
Bill Bedford
> Jim,
> The 51' Gresley stock you mentioned running behind V1/3's on Glasgow north
> lines.
> Do you know if there is a RTR version of these available. I assume they
> would be in Maroon?
> Cheers,
They were all 51' twins so it would not be too difficult to make up the
sets from eg Ian Kirk kits -- though some of the sets were steel and not
teak.
--
The question seldom addressed is *where* Medusa had snakes. Underarm
hair is an even more embarrassing problem when it keeps biting the top
of the deodorant bottle.
Bill Bedford
Pete
Pete ScR
Jim Guthrie
<dija...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
Dave,
>In factory-fresh condition it was ash. Once the varnish became
>chipped, and water got to the wood, then complete replacement was the
>only answer, but it wasn't an easy job no matter which wood you used.
IIRC, I got my replacement bits of wood from a scrap yard where there
were a few Travellers with front end damage. I think the only bits
I replaced were the two main pillars at the rear.
Jim.
Brian McMahon
They do have quite a lot of pictures, but not of the 303, unfortunately.
Some of the other pictures there give an idea of what to expect though.
Hope this helps.
"Ian Robertson" <ir...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b6vbkt8dafasarhpf...@4ax.com...
Ian Robertson
We mustn't forget the John Coltrane classic......
<Blue Train>
on a Napster server near you.
Over ten 'coaches' long in its original version, but can be easily
edited down to a more manageable three and a half 'coaches' with <Cool
Edit Pro> or similar.
Modern Jazz fans only, naturally.
FWIW. My $0.02.
Ian
Jim Guthrie
Ian,
>Does anyone know the precise colours of blue and yellow that these
>trains were painted in? (perhaps with reference to Pantone or CMYK
>schemes) or the names and manufacturer of the paints?
Well, I got home late last night and managed to dig out the
commemorative booklet.
The overall blue colour was as discussed earlier. The roofs were
white and there was one horizontal two colour lining stripe on the
coach sides, about two inches below the bottom edges of the
compartment windows which was continued round the driving ends. This
two colour lining stripe had yellow on top and black below, the black
one being wider than the yellow. This lining was quite "heavy" and
distinctive - at a rough guess, the total width was about 3" with the
yellow about 1" and the black about 2"
There was one BR coach roundel on each side of the centre driving car,
midway between the passenger doors. This roundel had the red lion
rampant on a white background in the centre with the circular rim
containing "British Railways" with the lettering in yellow or gold on
a blue background the same colour as the coach side, and bordered in
the same yellow or gold colour. I'm not too conversant with BR coach
insignia to know if this was the standard product, or one modified
particularly for this stock.
One thing I had forgotten about was the corporate logo used for the
system which was two opposite facing arrow heads in blue and yellow,
with the blue right facing one superimposed on the yellow left facing
one. The official title for the system was "Glasgow Electric",
although everyone just called the "The Blue Trains" :-)
It's also a sign of those times that the booklet stresses the modern
styling of the fittings, and features the brushed alloy ash trays :-)
I'll try and get the scanner fired up today and get some of the photos
on my web site. I know this is probably breaching BR(Sc) copyright
of 40 odd years ago but I think it might be worth the risk for a sight
of the system as it was at the start.
For additional information, you might want to dig around in Iain
Logan's "Electric Soup" pages.
http://homepages.enterprise.net/iainlogan/railway/gse1.html
Iain worked for BR(Sc) in the 1960s on North Clydeside and had a lot
of insider information. He actually managed a highly unofficial
visit for me to Dumbarton box one evening when I was allowed to set up
the NX panel for one or two of the trains. Iain occasionally visits
uk.rec.models.rail, so I'll copy this message to him in the hope that
he might join in with information "from the horse's mouth".
Jim.
Jim Guthrie
book. They've turned out a wee bit bigger than I intended, with
sizes up to 1/4 megabyte so they may take a while to download.
(1) Six car unit on trials approaching Craigendorran from Cardross
http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~sprocket/bluetrain/Craigendorran.JPG
(2) The panoramic view that was a heaven sent gift for railway
anoraks. The unit has left Cardross and is heading for Craigendorran
with Ardmore Point visible through the driver's window.
http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~sprocket/bluetrain/Cabview.JPG
(3) The interior and the fashions of the times - when did you last
see a woman using a compact in public :-)
http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~sprocket/bluetrain/Interior.JPG
(4) A detail view of the pantograph assembly
http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~sprocket/bluetrain/Pantograph.JPG
(5) A motor car being fitted out at Linwood, and also showing the
placement of the roundel on the coach side. An essential photograph
for the rivet counter who wants to put detail inside the equipment
boxes :-)
http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~sprocket/bluetrain/Powercar.JPG
(6) A blowup of the roundel to show as much detail as I could screw
out of the photo and the scanner.
http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~sprocket/bluetrain/Roundel.JPG
(7) A school train at Bearsden or Milngavie (can't remember which
since I didn't frequent the lesser known branches all that much :-))
The Blue Trains were used a lot as school trains. All the Roman
Catholic children in the Vale of Leven used the Balloch - Dalreoch
services to get to and from St.Pats in Dumbarton west, and my
daughter was a season ticket holder going to school in Glasgow from
Renton - along with many others.
http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~sprocket/bluetrain/Schooltrain.JPG
(8) A B&W shot of the cab profile showing the original wrap-round
windscreens
http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~sprocket/bluetrain/Profile.JPG
I hope that the colour rendition is reasonably good. My desktop PC
has gone on the blink and I'm doing this on my Toshiba portable with
an LCD screen, so I can only hope that they look OK.
Jim.
Iain Wilkie Logan
<URL:mailto:j...@sprockets.co.uk> wrote:
> On 3 Jul 2001 07:45:05 -0500, Ian Robertson <ir...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Does anyone know the precise colours of blue and yellow that these trains
> >were painted in? (perhaps with reference to Pantone or CMYK schemes) or
> >the names and manufacturer of the paints?
>
> Well, I got home late last night and managed to dig out the
> commemorative booklet.
>
> The overall blue colour was as discussed earlier.
Just to add my tuppence worth, in the photos of the restored set at
<http://www.railway.stormshadow.co.uk/> the blue looks just about right,
though in sunlight there was a definite greenish highlight to it. Cuneo's
picture on the cover of the commemorative booklet seems to capture it pretty
well right, though the photo of the power car in the booklet seems
(very) slightly too green. Someone mentioned that Phoenix Paints do a tin,
and if the accuracy of their other colours is anything to go by, I'd guess
it'll be a good match. I also had a look at the photos on
<http://www.eastbank.btinternet.co.uk/303.htm> and they seem a bit bluish.
> The roofs were white
Getting into hair-splitting territory here, I think the correct term was
'mushroom' - somewhere between white and the later 'rail grey'.
> and there was one horizontal two colour lining stripe on the coach sides,
> about two inches below the bottom edges of the compartment windows which
> was continued round the driving ends. This two colour lining stripe had
> yellow on top and black below, the black one being wider than the yellow.
> This lining was quite "heavy" and distinctive - at a rough guess, the
> total width was about 3" with the yellow about 1" and the black about 2"
Checking my copy, that seems about right.
> There was one BR coach roundel on each side of the centre driving car,
> midway between the passenger doors. This roundel had the red lion
> rampant on a white background in the centre with the circular rim
> containing "British Railways" with the lettering in yellow or gold on
> a blue background the same colour as the coach side, and bordered in
> the same yellow or gold colour. I'm not too conversant with BR coach
> insignia to know if this was the standard product, or one modified
> particularly for this stock.
It was the standard product. See
<http://homepages.enterprise.net/iainlogan/railway/br1.html> for an example.
> One thing I had forgotten about was the corporate logo used for the
> system which was two opposite facing arrow heads in blue and yellow,
> with the blue right facing one superimposed on the yellow left facing
> one. The official title for the system was "Glasgow Electric",
> although everyone just called the "The Blue Trains" :-)
See my website.
> It's also a sign of those times that the booklet stresses the modern
> styling of the fittings, and features the brushed alloy ash trays :-)
>
> I'll try and get the scanner fired up today and get some of the photos
> on my web site. I know this is probably breaching BR(Sc) copyright
> of 40 odd years ago but I think it might be worth the risk for a sight
> of the system as it was at the start.
Well, don't look too closely into the origin of the track diagrams on my
website, not to mention my copious use of the logo! Candidly, I don't think
anyone's had a much of a use for it since 1965, so I thought I'd be kind and
adopt it!
> For additional information, you might want to dig around in Iain
> Logan's "Electric Soup" pages.
>
> http://homepages.enterprise.net/iainlogan/railway/gse1.html
>
> Iain worked for BR(Sc) in the 1960s on North Clydeside and had a lot
> of insider information. He actually managed a highly unofficial
> visit for me to Dumbarton box one evening when I was allowed to set up
> the NX panel for one or two of the trains.
It was 'unofficial', though I did clear it with the AM no less.
> Iain occasionally visits uk.rec.models.rail, so I'll copy this message to
> him in the hope that he might join in with information "from the horse's
> mouth".
Actually, I've been following this thread with interest, and had in fact
thought of jumping in a couple of times, and did respond to Ian in a similar
thread in 'uk.railway' on 3rd July.
BTW I think you actually painted your Traveller in Rail Blue, which began to
appear on the Blue Trains in circa October 1966, when I was at Helensburgh
Central BO. However, they always looked best in the original livery, and
that's the way mine will be turned out.
I'm now looking forward to getting two of the DC Kits models. Happily my
layout is fully 'wired' already and I've also got two Sommerfeldt Faiveley
pantos of the right pattern in stock.
All the best,
Iain
--
Iain Logan, Langholm, Dumfriesshire - Chartered Transport Consultant
<http://homepages.enterprise.net/iainlogan/>
<mailto:iain...@enterprise.net>
Jim Guthrie
<iain...@enterprise.net> wrote:
Iain,
Long time, no speak. :-)
>Just to add my tuppence worth, in the photos of the restored set at
><http://www.railway.stormshadow.co.uk/> the blue looks just about right,
I've only just noticed, after looking at the restored set, that the
original colour scheme did not have red buffer beams.
>BTW I think you actually painted your Traveller in Rail Blue, which began to
>appear on the Blue Trains in circa October 1966, when I was at Helensburgh
>Central BO. However, they always looked best in the original livery, and
>that's the way mine will be turned out.
I have to confess that I started having second thoughts about which
blue we had copied since we had painted a front warning panel which
would have tied in with the later BR Rail Blue colour scheme :-) Put
it down to the effects of advancing senility :-)
>
>I'm now looking forward to getting two of the DC Kits models. Happily my
>layout is fully 'wired' already and I've also got two Sommerfeldt Faiveley
>pantos of the right pattern in stock.
I never knew you to have a layout that wasn't "wired" :-) There used
to be a filthy rumour that you put the wires up first, then laid the
track as an afterthought :-)
Jim.
Charles Craig
magnificent and a mine of information for someone wishing to build the
model.
Ian Logan's page, and his reference to the Stormshadow
Railway page were pretty special too - the photographs
of the Class 126 bringing back memories of trips to the
beach at Ayr.
I think the Blus Trains deserve a web site all of their own.
Best Regards
Charles
groovybaby
news:4q0bktcebmo12pf1q...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 6 Jul 2001 19:14:09 +1000, "Charles Craig"
> <sirc...@tig.com.au> wrote:
>
> Charles,
>
> >The 'pictures' I speak of are in a publication "British Railways Past and
> >Present - South West Scotland" and, informatively, a caption therein
says
> >"Unit No: 303048 has been restored to this (original) livery and is used
on
> >special occasions". It seems there may be a close representation of the
> >original somewhere near Glasgow
> >which might be sought out.
>
> I'm glad to hear that one unit has been preserved. It will be a
> great reminder of what was arguably the most successful scheme in the
> BR Modernisation Programme of the 1950s.
Unfortunately this unit was scrapped a few years ago I believe.
Ian
(not a modeller, but still in 303 country :)
David Breeze
>On Fri, 6 Jul 2001 14:25:19 +0100, David Breeze
>>contact details for DC Kits if you want, next week. The kit is briefly
>>reviewed in this month's Model Rail.
>
>Thanks, David. That would be most kind of you. I fancy building one
>for old time's sake, and also as it would be something of a
>conversation piece over here. A change from boats and snowmobiles ;-)
Brian McMahon beat me to it - http://www.dckits.co.uk
Ian Robertson
>
>Well, I got home late last night and managed to dig out the
>commemorative booklet.
Much obliged for all the detailed info that follows the above. Filed
away for reference. Thanks for going to the trouble. I am very
grateful to you.
Ian
Jim Guthrie
wrote:
Ian,
>Much obliged for all the detailed info that follows the above. Filed
>away for reference. Thanks for going to the trouble. I am very
>grateful to you.
Did you see the other message I posted on Sunday with links to a
selection of colour photos of the stock in the early days? A picture
is usually worth X thousand words :-) The header was changed to
"Glasgow Electric Blue Trains - Class 303 - Photos"
Also, on a more general issue, does anyone know if drawings are
available for the AM3 units (303). I've never seen any in the model
press and I can only remember some drawings in the MRC in the 1960s of
the new "Clacton" units (I think) which had a similar "wrap round"
front end design.
Jim.
Ian Robertson
wrote:
>Here are a selection of photos from the Blue Trains commemorative
>book. They've turned out a wee bit bigger than I intended, with
>sizes up to 1/4 megabyte so they may take a while to download.
Jim
These pictures are really first class. Excellent. And I am sure
everyone who loves Blue Trains will, like me, be most appreciative of
your time and effort in providing them for our delectation.
The bigger the better as far as I'm concerned, but even without the
luxury of cable, I guess railway enthusiasts would be daft not to go
the extra mile and download them. Very rare items indeed.
Maybe I've missed it - but have you any idea when these pictures were
taken? The 'interior' is most interesting inasmuch as it is still
'modern-looking' yet, as you remark, so typical of the times. The
epitome of 1960s culture all in the one carriage.
I also agree with Charles from Brisbane that the Blue Trains should
have a web site all to themselves. Indeed, I wonder how many
schoolchildren, like those in the photo and now well up in years, will
have fond memories of them? Thousands I guess. What a pleasant
reminder, too, of the days when 'uniforms' were obligatory and you
would surely have been expelled forthwith for turning up to lessons
dressed like most of the weans today in their shell suits and baseball
caps (it's just the same on this side too).
Therefore, I suppose these pictures are not just of value to railway
buffs. Historians and sociologists will find them most enlightening as
well. This is why think they are so valuable and why I am delighted to
have them in my collection.
Again - many thanks to you, sir, for these in addition to all your
other expert information provided over the course of this thread.
My sincere gratitude also to everyone else pre-eminent in the world of
Blue Trains who has done likewise.
Jim Guthrie
wrote:
Ian,
>Maybe I've missed it - but have you any idea when these pictures were
>taken? The 'interior' is most interesting inasmuch as it is still
>'modern-looking' yet, as you remark, so typical of the times. The
>epitome of 1960s culture all in the one carriage.
The dates would be in the 1959/1960 period. IIRC, the booklet was
published in late 1960 when the service started.
So the Beatles hadn't come on the scene yet and Elvis Presley, Buddy
Holiday, Lonnie Donegan, Pat Boone, Cliff Richard, "Six-Five
Special", skiffle , etc., were the "in" thing, and Charlie Tully and
George Young were still playing for Celtic and Rangers (respectively,
of course) :-)
>What a pleasant
>reminder, too, of the days when 'uniforms' were obligatory and you
>would surely have been expelled forthwith for turning up to lessons
>dressed like most of the weans today in their shell suits and baseball
>caps (it's just the same on this side too).
I have to confess that I was a rebel of the time. A schoolmate and I
were proposed as prefects in the senior school at Dumbarton Academy,
and we refused the offer since it meant us having to wear the school
uniform. :-)
Jim.
Joyce Whitchurch
uk.railway to remain ignorant of them any longer!
[cross-posted to u.r]
On Sun, 08 Jul 2001 13:27:30 +0100, Jim Guthrie <j...@sprockets.co.uk>
wrote:
>Here are a selection of photos from the Blue Trains commemorative
>book. They've turned out a wee bit bigger than I intended, with
>sizes up to 1/4 megabyte so they may take a while to download.
>(1) Six car unit on trials approaching Craigendorran from Cardross
>http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~sprocket/bluetrain/Craigendorran.JPG
>
>(2) The panoramic view that was a heaven sent gift for railway
>anoraks. The unit has left Cardross and is heading for Craigendorran
>with Ardmore Point visible through the driver's window.
>http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~sprocket/bluetrain/Cabview.JPG
>
>(3) The interior and the fashions of the times - when did you last
>see a woman using a compact in public :-)
>http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~sprocket/bluetrain/Interior.JPG
>
>(4) A detail view of the pantograph assembly
>http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~sprocket/bluetrain/Pantograph.JPG
>
>(5) A motor car being fitted out at Linwood, and also showing the
>placement of the roundel on the coach side. An essential photograph
>for the rivet counter who wants to put detail inside the equipment
>boxes :-)
>http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~sprocket/bluetrain/Powercar.JPG
>
>(6) A blowup of the roundel to show as much detail as I could screw
>out of the photo and the scanner.
>http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~sprocket/bluetrain/Roundel.JPG
>
>(7) A school train at Bearsden or Milngavie (can't remember which
>since I didn't frequent the lesser known branches all that much :-))
>http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~sprocket/bluetrain/Schooltrain.JPG
>
>(8) A B&W shot of the cab profile showing the original wrap-round
>windscreens
>http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~sprocket/bluetrain/Profile.JPG
>
>I hope that the colour rendition is reasonably good. My desktop PC
>has gone on the blink and I'm doing this on my Toshiba portable with
>an LCD screen, so I can only hope that they look OK.
They look magnificent!
--
Joyce Whitchurch, Stalybridge, UK
=================================
Joyce's World of Transport Eclectica:
<http://www.btinternet.com/~joyce.whitchurch/>
Jack & Megan
Joyce Whitchurch <eggschip...@sheffieldbusmuseum.com> writes
>These photos are quite superb, and I cannot allow the good people of
>uk.railway to remain ignorant of them any longer!
>
>[cross-posted to u.r]
>On Sun, 08 Jul 2001 13:27:30 +0100, Jim Guthrie <j...@sprockets.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~sprocket/bluetrain/Craigendorran.JPG
>>http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~sprocket/bluetrain/Cabview.JPG
>>http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~sprocket/bluetrain/Interior.JPG
>>http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~sprocket/bluetrain/Pantograph.JPG
>>http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~sprocket/bluetrain/Powercar.JPG
>>http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~sprocket/bluetrain/Roundel.JPG
>>http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~sprocket/bluetrain/Schooltrain.JPG
>>http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~sprocket/bluetrain/Profile.JPG
>They look magnificent!
<stunned disbelief>
WOW!!!!
Amazing!
Thank you!!!
I've never seen anything like these before, thanks for sharing them!
--
Jack Howard.
Ian Robertson
wrote:
>The dates would be in the 1959/1960 period. IIRC, the booklet was
>published in late 1960 when the service started.
>
>So the Beatles hadn't come on the scene yet and Elvis Presley, Buddy
>Holiday, Lonnie Donegan, Pat Boone, Cliff Richard, "Six-Five
>Special", skiffle , etc., were the "in" thing, and Charlie Tully and
>George Young were still playing for Celtic and Rangers (respectively,
>of course) :-)
But of course ;-) Fond memories indeed. Thank you. I shall add these
details.
>
>>What a pleasant
>>reminder, too, of the days when 'uniforms' were obligatory etc.
>
>I have to confess that I was a rebel of the time. A schoolmate and I
>were proposed as prefects in the senior school at Dumbarton Academy,
>and we refused the offer since it meant us having to wear the school
>uniform. :-)
>
>Jim.
You're a bad wee rascal, Jim Guthrie ;-) I'll give ye Buddy Holly. Or,
as my faither said at the time, 'have you not had enough of that now?'
I think he had.
All the best, and many thanks again for the wonderful photos (which
are now adorning my study wall) as well as the benefit of your
consummate expertise.
Ian Robertson (Southampton, Ont., Canada).
Jim Guthrie
wrote:
Ian,
>>I have to confess that I was a rebel of the time. A schoolmate and I
>>were proposed as prefects in the senior school at Dumbarton Academy,
>>and we refused the offer since it meant us having to wear the school
>>uniform. :-)
>>
>>Jim.
>
>You're a bad wee rascal, Jim Guthrie ;-) I'll give ye Buddy Holly. Or,
>as my faither said at the time, 'have you not had enough of that now?'
Au contraire (just scraped a Lower French) , I was the (short term)
apple of my mother's eye since she didn't have to go out and buy a
blazer for me :-)
My father was quite broad minded so didn't complain too much about the
interests of his offspring, but Mother dished it out in no uncertain
terms - especially about listening to the "Goon Show". She reckoned
that it was a bad influence - she might have been right :-)
Jim.
Sam Wilson
joyce.wh...@btinternet.com wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Jul 2001 13:27:30 +0100, Jim Guthrie <j...@sprockets.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> >(3) The interior and the fashions of the times - when did you last
> >see a woman using a compact in public :-)
> >http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~sprocket/bluetrain/Interior.JPG
I note they didn't sit three abreast even in the publicity shots...
--
Sam Wilson
Network Services Division, Computing Services
The University of Edinburgh
Edinburgh, Scotland, UK
Jim Guthrie
wrote:
Sam,
>> >(3) The interior and the fashions of the times - when did you last
>> >see a woman using a compact in public :-)
>> >http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~sprocket/bluetrain/Interior.JPG
>
>I note they didn't sit three abreast even in the publicity shots...
I noticed that as well :-). BR(Sc) had a very conservative idea of
the width off the average Clydeside bum.
Jim.
Pete
remember whether it was them or the preceding DMU's which had a plate on the
sliding windows with the manufacturers name "Widney". We once told our mate
it was a spelling mistake and it actually should have said "Windey" (window
in Glasgow parlance). He believed us !
Cheers,
Pete ScRnews:kimhlt0bru73kgbsc...@4ax.com...
Ian Robertson
<pe...@deg2.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>I can remember traveling on the Blue Trains like it was yesterday. I cant
>remember whether it was them or the preceding DMU's which had a plate on the
>sliding windows with the manufacturers name "Widney". We once told our mate
>it was a spelling mistake and it actually should have said "Windey" (window
>in Glasgow parlance). He believed us !
>Cheers,
>Pete ScR
Pete,
It was the Blue Trains - definitely. I recall that name plate too and,
believe it or not, we used to think along the same lines. You could
even stick 'your heed oot the widney' to get some fresh air -
especially if you were in either of the front or rear smoking coaches.
Remember these 'widneys' were of the sliding type?
What are we like, eh.....?
Ian
Douglas Third
<pe...@deg2.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>I can remember traveling on the Blue Trains like it was yesterday.
That is because it was............., Oh, you mean in unrefurbished mode
when they really were blue :-)
> I cant
>remember whether it was them or the preceding DMU's which had a plate on the
>sliding windows with the manufacturers name "Widney".
Well I do not know, but they now have windows made by Beclawat.
--
Douglas Third
douglas@blueyonder(remove).co.uk
Douglas Third
<ir...@hotmail.com> writes
> You could
>even stick 'your heed oot the widney' to get some fresh air -
I did that the other week, there were about 2 or 3 of them that were
refurbished without the new windows.
>Remember these 'widneys' were of the sliding type?
And still are, still are.
--
Douglas Third
douglas@blueyonder(remove).co.uk