Peco OO curved point frog problem
Mike Smith
hand.
Several items passing through on the inner curve tend to derail, not every
time, but there is a distict jolt.
No he does not have a back to back gauge, but the problem only occurs on
Peco curved points (of which he has three) and does not seem to occur on a
(new) Hornby curved point (of which he has one but it curves the wrong way
for this job).
Googling suggests the solution is to add a shim of 10 thou to the inside of
the check rail.
Is this an issue with Peco curved points or would a new point solve the
problem?
I can post him a new point, I'd have to go over to add the shim.
Regards
Mike
MartinS
I had to do that to my Hornby curved points. I didn't think Peco had the
problem.
--
Martin S.
simon
"MartinS" <m...@my.place> wrote in message
news:_2pgn.2035$1L...@newsfe01.iad...
Had so much trouble with curved points that I dumped them - if possible
suggest you do likewise.
No back to back guage, ok then find a wagon thats correct and use it as a
reference or inside calipers. Would very much advise checking back to back
otherwise could be modifying the points for wrong width - will never be
right and more locos, coaches, wagons then more problems.
Test with wagon that you know is correct, if that doesnt go bang then
compare loco B2B with that, it doesnt have to be exact.
Cheers,
Simon
Wolf K
Their "universal" points all have/had inadequate check gauge. I had to
increase it with the a 4-6 thou strip of plastic along the check rail.
Oddly enough their flex track was tight gauge, so that on curves smaller
than about 24" long wheel base bogies and engines hung up on it. That's
why I don't use Peco anymore. We tossed all the Peco turnouts donated to
the club, too.
cheers,
wolf k.
Wolf K
Actually, because of variations in flange thickness, _check gauge_ is
the key dimension. It's the span from the inside face of the frog
(crossing) to the outer face of the check rail (the one that faces the
opposite running rail). The Mark IV NMRA gauge measures this as go - no
go. AFAIK, ganger's gauges measure the same dimension.
I didn't know how well the NMRA gauge would work for OO track, but so
far I've had no problems with OO stock running on wheels with 14.5mm
back to back, which seems to be the de facto OO standard, judging from
reviews. 'Course, these are test runs only.
FWIW, my friend, who runs his trains at about 200 scale mph, has had no
problems with Atlas and Shinohara curved turnouts built to NMRA
standards and RPs.
cheers,
wolf k.
Fred X
Yes, I was just going to say that curved points are best avoided if
possible as they do tend to cause a lot of problems like this.
Fred X
Erik Olsen
> Yes, I was just going to say that curved points are best avoided if
> possible as they do tend to cause a lot of problems like this.
Only because most people don't use the gauges (or measure with a pair of
calipers) that makes sure that the wheel sets and turnouts adhere to the
standards chosen.
--
Venlig hilsen/Best regards
Erik Olsen
http://www.modelbaneteknik.dk/
simon
"Erik Olsen" <erik....@ishoejby.dk> wrote in message
news:4b82c839$0$276$1472...@news.sunsite.dk...
So you know that me and Fred dont check wheelsets properly ! Plus I'm to
check Peco and Hornby curved points are correct - but what do I do if they
arent ?
I recon its more that when you have points on a curve (that includes
standard ones where 'straight through is curved bit) taken at high speed
then everything must be perfect else whack ! That means always clean track
and always clean wheels, track level, wheels not wobbly, enter curve at
correc angle etc etc. Its a situation that just isnt forgiving, hence best
avoided.
Cheers,
Simon
Erik Olsen
> So you know that me and Fred dont check wheelsets properly ! Plus I'm
> to check Peco and Hornby curved points are correct
That's correct.
> but what do I do if they arent ?
Please describe the error.
simon
> simon wrote:
>
>> So you know that me and Fred dont check wheelsets properly !
> That's correct.
>
SNIP
> --
> Venlig hilsen/Best regards
> Erik Olsen
> http://www.modelbaneteknik.dk/
So how do you know that ?
Cheers,
Simon
Mike Smith
"Wolf K" <wek...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:4b828d6f$0$3935$9a6e...@news.newshosting.com...
Thanks chaps - He is posting me the offending point to see if I can 'fix'
it, I'll try adding a shim, if that doesn't work I'll get a standard point
and fettle that in for him.
I'll make a 14.5mm back to back measure for him as well, thanks for that.
In N the only bit of track that has caused me this problem was the Peco long
crossing, straight and curved points from various firms makes all seem fine.
I understand that the Japanese track is very good, but it is also very
expensive. In N I was playing 'continental' and using Fleichmann track, the
cost of which made my eyes water. For this exercise cost is an issue, so
it'll be Peco because I keep hearing 'bad things' about Hornby
Cost is also the reason for using slider switches and piano wire for point
control, besides which I have used it in N with Peco track so I am fairly
confident about getting it to work and allows me to feed power from the frog
to the switch blades.
For the Fleichmann stuff I resorted to fishing line, with red and green
coloured beads on the ends to indicate left and right setting but that
doesn't switch power to the frog. Ten quid per motor was just a little too
steep for my needs.
Regards
Mike
Erik Olsen
> Erik Olsen wrote:
>> simon wrote:
>>
>>> I'm
>>> to check Peco and Hornby curved points are correct
>>
>> That's correct.
>
Because if you had checked the wheel sets and turnouts correctly against
the standards and fixed any errors, then you wouldn't have a problem.
By the way, which set of standards do you use for your wheel sets and
turnouts?
Unfortunately I cannot check your wheel sets and your turnouts for you,
I have to rely on you to do it, but I can explain how to check them and
how to fix them if you'll only tell a little more.
MartinS
>
> Cost is also the reason for using slider switches and piano wire for
> point control, besides which I have used it in N with Peco track so I
> am fairly confident about getting it to work and allows me to feed
> power from the frog to the switch blades.
>
> For the Fleichmann stuff I resorted to fishing line, with red and
> green coloured beads on the ends to indicate left and right setting
> but that doesn't switch power to the frog. Ten quid per motor was just
> a little too steep for my needs.
Hatton's sells Hornby, Peco and Seep motors for �4 each. Oddly, in Canada
the Peco cost twice as much as the Hornby. Tortoise are more expensive.
I've bought some Seep (Gaugemaster) ones to try them out. They are small
and simple, and include the facility for switching polarity if needed. You
have to solder on your own leads, but that's not a major chore.
I gave up on the idea of making my own quiet, slow-acting point actuators
using memory wire. Too much fiddling about.
--
Martin S.
simon
Ok then standards are as per Peco specification. Points are Peco and B2B as
recommended by them. I didnt have a problem with every bit of rolling stock,
just with some occasionally. Like said, they are not very forgiving and I
want to spend my time with things other than ensuring all wheels on all
wagons, bogies etc are always perfect.
Cheers,
Simon
Cheers,
Simon
Wolf K
>
> "Erik Olsen" <erik....@ishoejby.dk> wrote in message
> news:4b84224d$0$279$1472...@news.sunsite.dk...
>> simon wrote:
>>> Erik Olsen wrote:
>>>> simon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So you know that me and Fred dont check wheelsets properly ! Plus I'm
>>>>> to check Peco and Hornby curved points are correct
>>>>
>>>> That's correct.
>>>
>>> So how do you know that ?
>>
>> Because if you had checked the wheel sets and turnouts correctly
>> against the standards and fixed any errors, then you wouldn't have a
>> problem.
>>
>> By the way, which set of standards do you use for your wheel sets and
>> turnouts?
>>
>> Unfortunately I cannot check your wheel sets and your turnouts for
>> you, I have to rely on you to do it, but I can explain how to check
>> them and how to fix them if you'll only tell a little more.
>>
>> --
>> Venlig hilsen/Best regards
>> Erik Olsen
>> http://www.modelbaneteknik.dk/
>
> Ok then standards are as per Peco specification. Points are Peco and B2B
> forgiving and I want to spend my time with things other than ensuring
> all wheels on all wagons, bogies etc are always perfect.
>
> Cheers,
> Simon
>
> Cheers,
> Simon
Well, I'm afraid that even high quality products often have wheels out
of gauge, and turnouts may be off spec, too. I check wheels on all newly
purchased items,. and adjust gage if necessary. On most axles, this can
be done by twisting and pushing/pulling. A go/no go gauge (NMRA, for
example) is IMO essential. NMRA "target" BtB is 14.5mm for 16.5mm gauge
wheels, BTW.
cheers,
wolf k.
simon
Yep, me too. Also check after cleaning wheels just in case have been heavy
handed as well as if something derails bit too often. Sometimes use Romford
00 guage else when that disappears for a while then a tetragonal weight from
a loco that has one perfect dimension.
Cheers,
Simon
Just zis Guy, you know?
Shim the check rail with 0.1." Plastikard. That works for me.
Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/
The usenet price promise: all opinions offered in newsgroups are guaranteed
to be worth the price paid.
Wolf K
[...]
>
> Shim the check rail with 0.1." Plastikard. That works for me.
>
> Guy
I think you mean 0.01"
cheers,
wolf k.
Mike Smith
"MartinS" <m...@my.place> wrote in message
Thanks, the problem is the design of the Fliechmann points uses a sliding
lever on one side of the point, I'd need to do a bit of work to fit another
type of motor to them. On the plus side using fishing line is dead easy (two
holes lined with 'biro' tube either side of the lever, it has a nice 'pip'
on it that means the line stays in place).
One viable option would be wire and tube with a slider switch to operate the
point, but at the time non of my local shops were selling bowden cable or
other suitable tube, the wire can be light as very little force is required
(no over-the-centre spring).
The Fleichmann track is to be consigned to a 'train set' for someone's
kiddie as I gather 7.5 inch radius curves are a no-no with non-Continental N
Gauge and I am giving US outline a whirl (although the old Grafar 0-6-0 PT
chassis and diesels all manage with no problem, as of course do Minitrix,
Fleichman, Lima and (I suspect) anything with a very short wheelbase).
Regards
Mike
Erik Olsen
> Ok then standards are as per Peco specification. Points are Peco and
> B2B as recommended by them. I didnt have a problem with every bit of
> rolling stock, just with some occasionally. Like said, they are not
> very forgiving and I want to spend my time with things other than
> ensuring all wheels on all wagons, bogies etc are always perfect.
Can you point me to the Pco standards on the internet?
Greg.Procter
In that case, ensure all your rolling stock is fitted with one piece
plastic wheelsets! Provided they aren't warped from being left in the sun
or being boiled with your breakfast eggs they will be consistantly
accurate.
;-)
Greg.P.
Greg.Procter
wrote:
> simon wrote:
>
>> Ok then standards are as per Peco specification. Points are Peco and
>> B2B as recommended by them. I didnt have a problem with every bit of
>> rolling stock, just with some occasionally. Like said, they are not
>> very forgiving and I want to spend my time with things other than
>> ensuring all wheels on all wagons, bogies etc are always perfect.
>
> Can you point me to the Pco standards on the internet?
>
They are secret!
Erik Olsen
> Erik Olsen wrote:
>>
>> Can you point me to the Pco standards on the internet?
>
> They are secret!
Secret? Perhaps they don't want customers to check out the quality of
their products?
What about the standards published on http://www.doubleogauge.com/? As I
have never worked with 00 gauge, only with H0 gauge to NEM and NMRA
standards, I wouldn't know which 00 standards to use.
simon
complicated for me.
Cheers,
Simon
simon
"Greg.Procter" <pro...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
news:op.u8ndm3qxt7a1n0@promodel-5a9821...
Cheers,
Simon
Erik Olsen
> Sorry, never looked at standards in track and wheels, always seemed
> far too complicated for me.
Ah, so that's the reason! Then good luck to you, you will definitely
need it.
simon
Sorry, thats the reason for what ? Need luck for what ?
Cheers,
Simon
Greg.Procter
wrote:
> Greg.Procter wrote:
>> Erik Olsen wrote:
>>>
>>> Can you point me to the Pco standards on the internet?
>>
>> They are secret!
>
> Secret? Perhaps they don't want customers to check out the quality of
> their products?
>
> What about the standards published on http://www.doubleogauge.com/? As I
> have never worked with 00 gauge, only with H0 gauge to NEM and NMRA
> standards, I wouldn't know which 00 standards to use.
>
I don't think OO has ever had any "standards" as such.
There were "standards" set by a manufacturers group (BR...) but the
manufacturers in general didn't work to them and they were in a
practical sense flawed.
Peco manufactured track and turnouts which would accomodate the current
wheels produced by British manufacturers. (at one point they had
"Universal" and "fine(?)" turnouts available)In the 1950s they introduced
wagon kits and plastic wheel sets which probably became the "standard".
Over the decades they have revised their turnout clearances closer
to NEM/NMRA with each replacement mold. Double Slips at one stage were
considerably coarser that their turnouts, presumbaly because the DS sold
far less than standard turnouts so the mold lasted longer.
I'm not sure if the Peco wheels changed at all over that time, all the
examples I've seen looked the same.
All this is my opinion based on experience since about 1960 so I'm
sure it will be corrected by those with different experiences and
information.
Greg.P.
NZ
simon
Todays little known fact, Peco's track made to British Standard Geometry as
stated in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peco, for those that dont trust wiki
it does say it in the Peco catalogue as well.
Cheers,
Simon
Greg.Procter
That will alter the operating dimensions - spray them red oxide and
use them for wagon loads. Put up a sign on a factory with wagon access.
"Wigan Wagon Wheel Works", and you can justify all those loaded wagons :-)
Greg.P.
Erik Olsen
> That will alter the operating dimensions - spray them red oxide and
> use them for wagon loads. Put up a sign on a factory with wagon
> access. "Wigan Wagon Wheel Works", and you can justify all those
> loaded wagons :-)
... or a scrap yard.
Greg.Procter
I'm pretty sure that "British Standard Geometry" refers to rail code,
curved track radii, track lengths and the like rather than wheel
clearances. It ensures one can mix Hornby, Peco etc track sections.
Trust Wikipaedia???? What a strange concept!
Regards,
Greg.P.
simon
Its Peco that say it, and they do make track to that standard which is for
track :-)
Cheers,
Simon
Greg.Procter
So, it's a toss-up between believing Wiki, or Peco's publicity department
on the web - I'll go back to my micrometer and vernier! ;-)
Greg.P.
simon
> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:43:13 +1300, simon <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> for those
>>>> that dont trust wiki it does say it in the Peco catalogue as well.
>
> So, it's a toss-up between believing Wiki, or Peco's publicity department
> on the web - I'll go back to my micrometer and vernier! ;-)
>
> Greg.P.
In the catalogue (remember we dont bother with their website).
I'll go back to my 4mm Mercian etched brass Peckett then.
Cheers,
Simon
Greg.Procter
Ahhh, the old peckit and see technique!
;-)
Greg.P.
simon
Cheers,
Simon
Greg.Procter
>
> "Greg.Procter" <pro...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:op.u8nkowbmt7a1n0@promodel-5a9821...
>> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:11:55 +1300, simon <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "Greg.Procter" <pro...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
>>> news:op.u8njoonat7a1n0@promodel-5a9821...
>>>> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:43:13 +1300, simon <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> for those
>>>>>>> that dont trust wiki it does say it in the Peco catalogue as well.
>>> SNIP
>>>
>>>>
>>>> So, it's a toss-up between believing Wiki, or Peco's publicity
>>>> department
>>>> on the web - I'll go back to my micrometer and vernier! ;-)
>>>>
>>>> Greg.P.
>>> In the catalogue (remember we dont bother with their website).
>>> I'll go back to my 4mm Mercian etched brass Peckett then.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Simon
>>
>>
>> Ahhh, the old peckit and see technique!
>> ;-)
>>
>> Greg.P.
> Not one am familiar with, but am at the mercy of manufacturer ;-)
>
> Cheers,
> Simon
AKA - try it and see - the "peckit and see" variation is probably more
common
with chook owners. (hens)
simon
Pleased you said what a chook is. No we have suck it and see which am not
keen on.
Greg.Procter
For a moment there I had a mental picture of you with a mouthful of
Peco wheels! ;-)
Presumably "chook" comes from the sound hens make while searching
for things to peck. It's common in NZ.
simon
I would like to point out that Greg and I have never met or exchanged
photographs. Communication has been soley via this newsgroup.
Cheers,
Simon
ps However on presentation of a suitable fee an image as described could be
made available for viewing via facebook.
jimguthrie
<pro...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>Presumably "chook" comes from the sound hens make while searching
>for things to peck. It's common in NZ.
The word was used as an adjective on Clydeside - i.e. "chookie hens"
or more generaly for birds as in the first song on this web site
http://www.footstompin.com/public/article/scottish_songs_guide/childrens-songs
Jim.
damdu...@yahoo.co.uk
Heard the Phrase "chookie egg quite a lot when I was young.
G.Harman
Mike Smith
<damdu...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:j2ibo5locvd8mo2gm...@4ax.com...
'Chuckie egg' in Lancashire and Cheshire
Regards
Mike
damdu...@yahoo.co.uk
<mi...@notquitean.invalid> wrote:
>
><damdu...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>
>>>The word was used as an adjective on Clydeside - i.e. "chookie hens"
>>>or more generaly for birds as in the first song on this web site
>>>
>>>http://www.footstompin.com/public/article/scottish_songs_guide/childrens-songs
>>>
>>>Jim.
>>
>> Heard the Phrase "chookie egg quite a lot when I was young.
>>
>> G.Harman
>
>'Chuckie egg' in Lancashire and Cheshire
>
>Regards
>
>Mike
That would fit in ,My Mothers family was from Accrington.
Don't think I've ever had reason to note the spelling of the
expression before.
G.Harman
manat...@hotmail.com
> "Greg.Procter" <proc...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
>
> news:op.u8nidkxct7a1n0@promodel-5a9821...
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:26:32 +1300, simon <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> >>news:op.u8ng1cuit7a1n0@promodel-5a9821...
> >>> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:13:29 +1300, Erik Olsen <erik.ol...@ishoejby.dk>
> >> trust wiki it does say it in the Peco catalogue as well.
>
> > I'm pretty sure that "British Standard Geometry" refers to rail code,
> > curved track radii, track lengths and the like rather than wheel
> > clearances. It ensures one can mix Hornby, Peco etc track sections.
> > Trust Wikipaedia???? What a strange concept!
>
> > Regards,
> > Greg.P.
>
> Its Peco that say it, and they do make track to that standard which is for
> track :-)
They're the sole manufacturer of Peco track so of course they work to
a "standard". It may be that the geometry is common to other
manufacturers, but the point is that a track standard on its own is
meaningless. You need a compatible wheel standard to run on it.
MBQ
simon
<manat...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:298d2af8-8d4f-43b2...@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
MBQ
Dont need the standard, compatibility alone is required. That can be
achieved by an informal agreement or a dominating player producing a product
and other manufacturers conforming to that product. In this case Peco
already have market dominence and the wheel manufacturers have to conform.
That also implies that Peco's track standard isn't meaningless.
Cheers,
Simon
David Littlewood
<mi...@notquitean.invalid> writes
>
>> Heard the Phrase "chookie egg quite a lot when I was young.
>>
>> G.Harman
>
>'Chuckie egg' in Lancashire and Cheshire
>
David
--
David Littlewood
Graham Thurlwell
> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 01:22:06 -0000, "Mike Smith"
> <mi...@notquitean.invalid> wrote:
<snip>
>>'Chuckie egg' in Lancashire and Cheshire
> That would fit in ,My Mothers family was from Accrington.
> Don't think I've ever had reason to note the spelling of the
> expression before.
There was also a computer game called Chuckie Egg on the BBC Micro,
Spectrum and Dragon back in 1983 which is well known among persons of
my generation.
--
Jades' First Encounters Site - http://www.jades.org/ffe.htm
The best Frontier: First Encounters site on the Web.
nos...@jades.org /is/ a real email address!
Alan Dawes
> > On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 01:22:06 -0000, "Mike Smith"
> > <mi...@notquitean.invalid> wrote:
> <snip>
> >>'Chuckie egg' in Lancashire and Cheshire
> > That would fit in ,My Mothers family was from Accrington.
> > Don't think I've ever had reason to note the spelling of the
> > expression before.
> There was also a computer game called Chuckie Egg on the BBC Micro,
> Spectrum and Dragon back in 1983 which is well known among persons of
> my generation.
It's here:
http://www.repton3.co.uk/chuckieegg.aspx
to play on line.
Enjoy :-)
Alan
--
alan....@argonet.co.uk
alan....@riscos.org
Using an Acorn RiscPC