Model Railway Shows

[Graham Harrison]

I realise that I'm lucky people are prepared to put on model railway shows
for me to visit. But, time after time, the following things irritate me.

1) How to get there. So long as an accurate postcode is supplied Google
maps or a GPS will get me there. Many organisers put out signs "on the
day" and many are very good. But too often they don't appear where you
need them (we aren't all locals and we don't all use GPS) and the direction
they point is unclear.
2) Parking. Many halls have small car parks. Where do I go when the park
is full? Again, some organisers are very good with marshals pointing out
empty slots. Some go so far as to make arrangements for overflow parking.
Just leaving me to clutter up local streets is asking for conflict with
residents and pointing me at a supermarket car park which has civil
enforcement of stay time (no I've never had a so called fine) is stupid.
Start by at least clearing the car park of all trader, exhibitor and helper
cars before the public arrive.
3) Pricing. Thank you for offering concessions. Now, who qualifies?
Unemployed - how do you want me to prove it? OAP - define OAP. Old
enough for a bus pass? In receipt of state pension? Over 60? Over 65?
And bear in mind all the changes that governments have already introduced
and will continue to introduce to increase the age at which you receive the
state pension. How old is a child?

[bad-day]

Every show that I go to is well documented usually in the adverts that are
around, and nearly always with an organisers telephone number. Why not call
the people involved and ask them.
Some I access by train, some by car, some by bus and train etc, with a 100%
success straight to the door.
I just don't see a problem, neither do I experience with what is always
entry 'restrictions' . I've never known of an 'oap' EVER being challenged ,
but I take it as 60 , nor have I known of a 'child' being challenged.
Went to Stafford swapmeet today and one child in front of me was at least 17
and still only paid a £1 to get in.
These are 'friendly' events , not a George Michael concert- you really
should try them.

[Eric]

On 2012-01-15, Graham Harrison <edward.h...@remove.btinternet.com> wrote:
> I realise that I'm lucky people are prepared to put on model railway shows
> for me to visit.

So where have you just been that brought all this on?

> But, time after time, the following things irritate me.
>
> 1) How to get there. So long as an accurate postcode is supplied Google
> maps or a GPS will get me there.

So what's the problem?

> Many organisers put out signs "on the day" and many are very good.
> But too often they don't appear where you need them (we aren't all locals
> and we don't all use GPS) and the direction they point is unclear.

Signs tend to need local authority approval, and that can be difficult to
get. Often the argument is that the venue itself is signposted, but
there is no guarantee that those signs are readable and accurate.

> 2) Parking. Many halls have small car parks. Where do I go when the park
> is full? Again, some organisers are very good with marshals pointing out
> empty slots. Some go so far as to make arrangements for overflow parking.
> Just leaving me to clutter up local streets is asking for conflict with
> residents and pointing me at a supermarket car park which has civil
> enforcement of stay time (no I've never had a so called fine) is stupid.

How much car parking is enough? What was adequate for last year's show
may be inadequate for this year's, and how do the organisers know? And if
they know that parking is inadequate, how do they find another venue
that will work. And if it's full, it's full - nothing anyone can do.

> Start by at least clearing the car park of all trader, exhibitor and helper
> cars before the public arrive.

Where to? And who moves them? Add too much hassle to a trader's or
exhibitor's day and they won't want to come back.

> 3) Pricing. Thank you for offering concessions. Now, who qualifies?
> Unemployed - how do you want me to prove it? OAP - define OAP. Old
> enough for a bus pass? In receipt of state pension? Over 60? Over 65?
> And bear in mind all the changes that governments have already introduced
> and will continue to introduce to increase the age at which you receive the
> state pension. How old is a child?

A balancing act between taking enough money and not upsetting visitors.
As long as the publicity and a sign on the desk show what the rules are
there should be no problem.

Eric

--
ms fnd in a lbry

[Arthur Figgis]

On 15/01/2012 17:18, Graham Harrison wrote:
> I realise that I'm lucky people are prepared to put on model railway
> shows for me to visit. But, time after time, the following things
> irritate me.
>
> 1) How to get there. So long as an accurate postcode is supplied Google
> maps or a GPS will get me there.

I've had long battles over that one.

"Why would we need to give the postcode? /Everyone/ knows where Fred
Bloggs School is" - but what about people who haven't lived here all
their lives, or coming from outside the immediate area.

Then when you get to the venue, there will be a sign saying "entrance
through the maths department", which is little help to anyone who isn't
a former pupil.

> Many organisers put out signs "on the
> day" and many are very good. But too often they don't appear where you
> need them (we aren't all locals and we don't all use GPS) and the
> direction they point is unclear.

It seems to be fairly widely believed that putting up signs is massively
illegal and impossible to organise legally. Someone at our club got so
fed up with the same arguments against signs every year that he gave up
on the committee and sorted it out with the council himself.

> 2) Parking. Many halls have small car parks. Where do I go when the park
> is full? Again, some organisers are very good with marshals pointing out
> empty slots. Some go so far as to make arrangements for overflow
> parking. Just leaving me to clutter up local streets is asking for
> conflict with residents and pointing me at a supermarket car park which
> has civil enforcement of stay time (no I've never had a so called fine)
> is stupid. Start by at least clearing the car park of all trader,
> exhibitor and helper cars before the public arrive.

Though the traders will need somewhere to park, as they don't really
have the option of getting the bus.

> 3) Pricing. Thank you for offering concessions. Now, who qualifies?
> Unemployed - how do you want me to prove it? OAP - define OAP. Old
> enough for a bus pass? In receipt of state pension? Over 60? Over 65?
> And bear in mind all the changes that governments have already
> introduced and will continue to introduce to increase the age at which
> you receive the state pension. How old is a child?

I suspect many modellers forget that not every other modeller is a
pensioner.

The single biggest improvement model railway shows could make would be
to have the ticket desk manned by a young person (say under 50) with a
hosepipe linked to some hot soapy water. If they think you stink, either
you get hosed down or you don't go in....

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

[Graham Harrison]

"bad-day" <bad...@NOSPAM.yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1xEQq.150$cu3...@newsfe12.ams2...

I suppose I just like to cross T s etc. I don't like cheating the
organisers out of money so I always make sure I'm allowed to use a badly
defined concession rather than assuming.

As for phoning for instructions my experience is very mixed. As with the
signs some are very good but some people seem incapable of giving meaningful
instructions. So often they start by saying something like "You know the
Red Cow?". Well no, I don't live locally which is why I'm asking.

As I indicated at the beginning I do appreciate the work that goes in to
organising these events. I just wish certain things were better in some
cases.

[Graham Harrison]

"Eric" <er...@deptj.eu> wrote in message
news:slrnjh67a...@teckel.deptj.eu...

It's not just one show and it would be unfair to name the most recent
culprit if only because they didn't do "everything" wrong and the show
itself was extremely good.

If the venue is signed anyway then do you really need more? Putting out
extra signs that can confuse is silly.

As for the parking, yes, anyone can get caught out and trade does fluctuate
hour by hour and year by year but several that I have visited more than once
have had problems every occasion I've been. As for traders not coming if
you move them somewhere else they definitely won't come if people can't park
nearby and thus don't attend. It's a problem; you need somewhere nearby to
act as an overflow/trader park and I suspect it needs some security for the
traders to be comfortable but most organisers seem to just ignore the issues
and hope it all works out. Tolworth is good with overflow nearby.

How can being more specific about your pricing upset people? If the
pricing is clearly defined everyone knows where they stand.

[Graham Harrison]

"Arthur Figgis" <afi...@example.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:ttudnSzg6r6Svo7S...@brightview.co.uk...

Agree with all of that. In fact I sometime wonder why both with
concessions at all. It's not as if you're paying £100 to get in. Does a
50 p (or even £1) discount for a pensioner make a difference to whether they
go or not? There will always be some people of all ages for whom price is
an issue. West Camel at Christmas only charged males to enter which I
thought was a neat twist!

[bad-day]

This weekend is the Leamington and Warwick Model Railway Society show at the
National Agricultural Centre, 21st and 22nd January 2012.
Take a look at
http://www.lwmrs.co.uk/CMS/index.php/exhibition-special-features and then
consider your gripes.
There's a postcode for satnav users. A google map , enlargeable down to a
few feet for those otherwise , a picture of the street signs to look for,
details of car parking, full details of the layouts attending
http://www.lwmrs.co.uk/CMS/index.php/exhibition-layouts , a full list of
traders http://www.lwmrs.co.uk/CMS/index.php/traders , everything you could
wish to know even if you are not attending... I just can't see any problem
what so ever.. Why the sideswipe at organisers or is Victor Meldrew alive
and well somewhere......
http://www.lwmrs.co.uk/CMS/index.php/exhibition

[Graham Harrison]

They would seem to have the big advantage that (as far as signage is
concerned) their venue is already signposted so they don't need to put out
their own (which is where I feel some improvement could be achieved by some
organisers). And good for L&WMRS for doing so. Would that other
organisers were in the area of or could afford to hire venues like this.
And, unless the NAC isn't managing its' business well, I would expect
parking is also not an issue. However, where they do fall down in my view
is through the use of the word "Concessions" in the admission prices with no
explanation of what that means.

"bad-day" <bad...@NOSPAM.yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message

news:gmSQq.401$TE4...@newsfe03.ams2...

[Alan Dawes]

In article <bbCdnbzm2tfHpY7S...@bt.com>,

Graham Harrison <edward.h...@remove.btinternet.com> wrote:
> West Camel at Christmas only charged males to enter which I
> thought was a neat twist!

But look on the bright side, the local Oxfam shop did a roaring trade in
wigs and dresses that day :-)

Alan

--
alan....@argonet.co.uk
alan....@riscos.org
Using an Acorn RiscPC

[Graham Harrison]

"Alan Dawes" <alan....@argonet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:525269788c...@argonet.co.uk...

:-)

[manat...@hotmail.com]

On Jan 15, 8:30 pm, "Graham Harrison"
<edward.harris...@remove.btinternet.com> wrote:
> "Eric" <e...@deptj.eu> wrote in message
>
> news:slrnjh67a...@teckel.deptj.eu...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 2012-01-15, Graham Harrison <edward.harris...@remove.btinternet.com>

As examples of good practice for getting there and parking, I can
recommend The International N Gauge show, Wycrail in High Wycombe
(plenty of overflow parking with marshalls) and Railex Aylesbury.

As for the contect of the shows, that an entirely subjective matter...

MBQ

[manat...@hotmail.com]

On Jan 16, 9:48 am, "bad-day" <bad-...@NOSPAM.yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> This weekend is the Leamington and Warwick Model Railway Society show at the
> National Agricultural Centre, 21st and 22nd January 2012.
> Take a look athttp://www.lwmrs.co.uk/CMS/index.php/exhibition-special-featuresand then
> consider your gripes.

I haven't been to that one since they moved from the school venue a
few years ago. Show was OK. There always seemed to be a hard-core of
the same layouts, but the same is true of many shows.

MBQ

[Wolf K]

On 15/01/2012 12:18 PM, Graham Harrison wrote:
> I realise that I'm lucky people are prepared to put on model railway
> shows for me to visit. But, time after time, the following things
> irritate me.
>

>[snip]

I agree. But in my experience, these glitches are the effcts of muddling
through instead of working with a plan. Many volunteer organisations
have handbooks on how to put on shows/conventions/conferences. I belong
to three organisations that put on events at several levels, national,
provincial, and regional. For each type, there's a handbook, with time
lines, check lists, and advice. After the event(s), the handbooks are
reviewed and revised as needed. I've served on one of the subcommittees
of one of these groups, and helped improve that committee's work:
there's nothing like having to to do something to teach you what needs
to be done. ;-) Feedback from the "customers" is essential for this process.

I'm pretty sure that the more successful groups have just such a
handbook. Could they not be asked to share their expertise? A fee to
cover cost of copying/distribution should be paid, of course.

Another suggestion: The British Region of the NMRA has access to the
NMRA convention handbooks. Perhaps they could be contacted also. The
NMRA is known for organising some of the best shows anywhere.

If a local club doesn't want to approach others for help, then they
should at the very least discuss the successes and failures of their
events, and start writing their own handbook. I know that "business
meetings" are often a pain, but they are necessary. But a well-designed,
focussed agenda will make the meetings short and productive. You also
need a chair who knows how to end or redirect discussion that's wandered
off topic... ;-)

HTH,
Wolf K.

[Eric]

On 2012-01-16, manat...@hotmail.com <manat...@hotmail.com> wrote:
...

>
> As examples of good practice for getting there and parking, I can
> recommend The International N Gauge show, Wycrail in High Wycombe
> (plenty of overflow parking with marshalls) and Railex Aylesbury.

But how good are they for those without a car?

> As for the contect of the shows, that an entirely subjective matter...

Indeed!

[manat...@hotmail.com]

On Jan 16, 9:29 pm, Eric <e...@deptj.eu> wrote:

> On 2012-01-16, manatba...@hotmail.com <manatba...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> ...
>
>
>
> > As examples of good practice for getting there and parking, I can
> > recommend The International N Gauge show, Wycrail in High Wycombe
> > (plenty of overflow parking with marshalls) and Railex Aylesbury.
>
> But how good are they for those without a car?

TINGS and Wycrail definitely have shuttle services to the nearest
railway station. Railex may do, if not it is close to regular bus
services as it is next door to Stoke Mandeville hospital.

MBQ

[Chris Wilson]

On 15-Jan-2012, Arthur Figgis <afi...@example.com.invalid> wrote:

> The single biggest improvement model railway shows could make would be
> to have the ticket desk manned by a young person (say under 50) with a
> hosepipe linked to some hot soapy water. If they think you stink, either
> you get hosed down or you don't go in....

Yes, yes and thrice yes :-)

--

All the best,

Chris

[Eric]

On 2012-01-17, manat...@hotmail.com <manat...@hotmail.com> wrote:

The question was mostly rhetorical, to raise it as a general issue. And
my experience of those three is slightly different:

TINGS - only been once, there was no shuttle, but got a normal bus to
the nearby crossroads, then walked between the mud and the traffic
to get into the venue (through the car park which was more like a
pond that day). When I came out it was a nice day so I walked back
along the canal (it's a long way).

Wycrail - a proper shuttle.

Railex - no shuttle the first time I went, buses do serve the hospital
but it's enormous and the bus stops are in the wrong places. It
rained and I arrived soaked. More recently there was a shuttle,
but it dumps you on the wrong side of the railway, so if it had been
raining I would have been soaked again. Walked back both times (it
wasn't raining then).

Impossible for a show to make it easy for everybody of course, and
there's nothing to be done about the weather, but the key is
information, Some shows seem to do nothing for the carless ("who'd
try to come here without a car?" or "most people have a car so we
don't really bother about the others!" - I have heard the equivalent
of both).

Then there's disabled access...

And, on a different level, catering.

So which is the best venue? :-)

[Mark Goodge]

On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 21:43:48 +0000, Eric put finger to keyboard and typed:

>So which is the best venue? :-)

Of the shows that I attend regularly, I'd say that the Leamington and
Warwick Model Railway Society show at Stoneleigh has the best venue:

* Easy access by road
* Plenty of free on site parking
* Spacious, well lit exhibition hall
* All on one level (good wheelchair/pushchair access)
* Professional catering at reasonable prices

The main downside is that it's a bit out of the way for public transport.
There are buses to the NAC, but it's still a bit of a hike to the
exhibition hall from the front gate.

Good accessibility by car and public transport tends to be mutually
exclusive, since city centre locations (which have good public transport)
often have limited and/or expensive parking.

Mark
--
Blog: http://mark.goodge.co.uk
Stuff: http://www.good-stuff.co.uk

[Charlie Hulme]

On 15/01/2012 17:18, Graham Harrison wrote:

> I realise that I'm lucky people are prepared to put on model
> railway shows for me to visit. But, time after time, the
> following things irritate me.
>

I used to go to a lot of exhibitions, partly as an excuse for a
train ride, and sometimes also because they were held in an
interesting building (Rochdale Town Hall, for example.)

These days, I act as a layout operator for a friend a few times a
year, and the only other shows I go to are those which are in
town centres or close to a station, as I can't be bothered with
the messing about of getting to these big leisure centres,
schools, etc. So often the adverts for exhibitions don't even
mention public transport access at all. No wonder the standard of
operation of some is so poor - the owner has never watched or
travelled on a real train. (Asking for trouble there, I know!)

In any case, I find those huge and remote mega-exhibitions, so
fashionable these days, quite overwhelming and not really that
enjoyable. I'd much rather go to an old-style small town show.

My two-pennorth ...

Charlie

[simon]

"bad-day" <bad...@NOSPAM.yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:gmSQq.401$TE4...@newsfe03.ams2...
>

> This weekend is the Leamington and Warwick Model Railway Society show at
> the National Agricultural Centre, 21st and 22nd January 2012.

We went to this. Am reluctant to go to big shows, especially those in
wharehouse type buildings, but we did go 2-3 years ago and enjoyed it.
Seemed was bigger this year, lots of visitors but lots of space. Host club
seemed very friendly and that may have contributed to very relaxed
atmosphere. Great time was had by all. Definately one to return to. Layouts
probably very good, but didnt get chance to look as too much time chatting
to trader friends :-)

Anyone else visit ?

Cheers,
Simon