insulfrog and electrofrog points
-----
I just bought a bunch of used Peco points on Ebay, and have found about half
to be electropoints. (Silly me, I didnt ask the question of the seller!).
Anyway, never having used them, I am wondering if I have to wire them
specially in any way. I will be using them in passing loop situations and in
a crossover between two mainlines, not in a siding. Any info would be hugely
appreciated.
Scoot
gppso...@gppsoftware.com
Have a look at: http://mrol.gppsoftware.com/livefrogwiring.asp
Graham Plowman
-----
<gppso...@gppsoftware.com> wrote in message
news:1147221076.5...@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
Thanks for that Graham, but I didnt mean for use with a point motor, nor for
DCC operation (thanks Kim). I meant for purely manual operation in an
existing, but evolving, layout. Do I need to do anyhting special, as regards
wiring, or can I just place them in position, as I would an insulfrog point.
(My lack of electical knowledge is manifest, and its showing, I know )
scoot
Mike Hughes
<scoo...@yahoo.com.au> writes
upon how you are laying out your track after the points. If it is just
sidings with no 'return' path then metal joiners are OK.
--
Mike Hughes
A Taxi driver licensed for London and Brighton
at home in Tarring, West Sussex, England
John Turner
"-----" <scoo...@yahoo.com.au> wrote
Basically the power must only be fed into the turnout from the toe (single
end) of the point.
John.
gppso...@gppsoftware.com
The method of wiring live frog turnouts correctly is the same for DC or
DCC operation.
There is no such thing as specially wiring live frog turnouts for DCC
operation. There is only one way and it has been used by builders of
hand made track since long before DCC was even invented. It is simply
the correct way to do it.
If you simply toe feed turnouts and fit isolating joints on the
crossing V, it doesn't stop potential shorting problems with the stock
and switch rails. Live frog turnouts are really not suitable for
reliable use without some kind of auxilliary switch which can either be
on a point motor or a manual panel switch. Many people who use
wire-in-tube point operation tend to connect the wire to a switch which
also handles the point crossing V polarity.
The method indicated on the link I provided shows the way to wire live
frog turnouts for long term reliable operation, removing all shorting
possibilities.
Graham Plowman
scoot
<gppso...@gppsoftware.com> wrote in message
news:1147308669....@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
thanks everybody. I think I'll just put them in the drawer with the other
things I dont understand, and stick to what I know. My layout runs nicely
just the way it is, and if I need/want to expand it any further, I'll buy
new Insulfrog pointwork.
scoot
airsm...@hotmail.com
Kevin Martin
>
> thanks everybody. I think I'll just put them in the drawer with the other
> things I dont understand, and stick to what I know. My layout runs nicely
> just the way it is, and if I need/want to expand it any further, I'll buy
> new Insulfrog pointwork.
>
And this is why Peco & almost every manufacturer make the things. Some
people have no need or desire to do things "properly" , whatever anyone
else's interpretation is. Personally, I agree with Graham's methods, but
its not my layout.
--
Regards
Kevin Martin
To reply - delete what is "not required" (Abbrev)
Keith
wrote:
>
>thanks everybody. I think I'll just put them in the drawer with the other
>things I dont understand, and stick to what I know. My layout runs nicely
>just the way it is, and if I need/want to expand it any further, I'll buy
>new Insulfrog pointwork.
>
If it works just fine for you with Insulfrog, just try the electrofrog
and use them, they will work just the same, all you need do is put
insulating rail joiners on the frog rails if there is any chance of a
backfeed into the frog. If you use then for single ended sidings you
won't need to worry about this.
Keith
>scoot
>
peter abraham
<nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>"-----" <scoo...@yahoo.com.au> wrote
>
>> I just bought a bunch of used Peco points on Ebay, and have found about
>> half to be electropoints. (Silly me, I didnt ask the question of the
>> seller!). Anyway, never having used them, I am wondering if I have to wire
>> them specially in any way. I will be using them in passing loop situations
>> and in a crossover between two mainlines, not in a siding. Any info would
>> be hugely appreciated.
>
>
>
As you intend to use them on passing loops you will be sure to
generate a feed from the "wrong" end of a point and get a frog going
live from both poles when fat footed stock rolls over it. Get rid of
them or do the P.Hd on point wiring !
Peter A
>
John Turner
"peter abraham" wrote
> As you intend to use them on passing loops you will be sure to
> generate a feed from the "wrong" end of a point and get a frog going
> live from both poles when fat footed stock rolls over it. Get rid of
> them or do the P.Hd on point wiring !
Nah, just put some insulated joiners beyond the frog rails.
John.
gppso...@gppsoftware.com
people have no need or desire to do things "properly" , whatever anyone
else's interpretation is. Personally, I agree with Graham's methods,
but
its not my layout.
--
Regards
Kevin Martin
Kevin,
Completely agree with you. The only problem is that if people aren't
encourages to do things 'properly' we continue to receive the same
questions on message forums like this and things don't move forward.
On the other hand, this does highlight an issue that a lot of people
don't understand live frog wiring but Peco are doing nothing about
addressing this. I can't fathom out why they can't make a turnout with
an in-built switch, 'properly' wired (as per
http://mrol.gppsoftware.com/livefrogwiring.asp) so that the user only
has to attach insulated joints to the wing rails if required.
Surely it isn't difficult!
Graham Plowman
Kevin Martin
> Kevin,
>
> Completely agree with you. The only problem is that if people aren't
> encourages to do things 'properly' we continue to receive the same
> questions on message forums like this and things don't move forward.
> On the other hand, this does highlight an issue that a lot of people
> don't understand live frog wiring but Peco are doing nothing about
> addressing this. I can't fathom out why they can't make a turnout with
> an in-built switch, 'properly' wired (as per
> http://mrol.gppsoftware.com/livefrogwiring.asp) so that the user only
> has to attach insulated joints to the wing rails if required.
> Surely it isn't difficult!
>
Graham
I think the problem is that Peco decided long ago that the almost
useless tags on the side of their code 100 series were the solution.
There OK while new, but after a few years & a bit of dirt/tarnish etc.
they simply stop being reliable.
Your web link
An excellent description of the correct way to wire live frog points.
Even better that you dispel the myth about *DCC Friendly* points on the
same page. One simple page describes all you need to know about getting
virtually 100% *metal* contact through a point, leading to almost
guarenteed pick-up of power.
No more nonsense about short wheelbase locos etc. If your only picking
up on 4 wheels, it makes **** all difference what the wheel base is if
you have great lumps of plastic in the frog.
Well done
Mike Smith
"Keith" <grov...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:b9g662hmguvu79rc1...@4ax.com...
connected to the frog and the outer running rails as well. Power is
supplied to the point from the toe end - Only snag is that this relies on
the blades touching the rails to carry power through to the frog (unless you
buy a slide switch, drill a hole in the operating lever part and use
wire-in-tube with the end of the wire in the hole - That way the switch
operates the point and changes the wiring to suit, it is only the frog you
need to switch.
Regards
Mike
Keith
wrote:
>
>"Keith" <grov...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
>news:b9g662hmguvu79rc1...@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 11 May 2006 16:54:08 +0800, "scoot" <scoo...@yahoo.com.au>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>I just use insulating joiners on the two diverging ends (ie the two rails
>connected to the frog and the outer running rails as well.
Why put insulating joiners on the outer rails as well? In most cases
they are not needed.
>Power is
>supplied to the point from the toe end - Only snag is that this relies on
>the blades touching the rails to carry power through to the frog
Same goes for insulfrog when used for power routing as Peco suggest.
Keith
Mike Smith
section.