HP Thinkjet or Quietjet???

[Andrew Mawson]

Anyone got an HP Thinkjet or Quietjet lurking gathering dust that they'd
like to convert to beer tokens? I want to print from an old piece of lab
equipment (HP1651A logic analyser) and those are the only printers it seems
to be able to cope with in graphics mode via its RS232 port.

TIA
AWEM

[Paul D Smith]

"Andrew Mawson" <andrew@please_remove_me.mawson.org.uk> wrote in message
news:4tGdnUpXh_FWLNLN...@bt.com...

Do you know what language it speaks? If it's something like HPGL then some
laserjets used to understand this. Otherwise, hook it to a PC using
something like Hyperterminal, capture the output and see what it looks like.
I'll bet you can find some web app. which will import and understand it.

Drop me an e-mail to paul_d_smith <at> hotmail <dot> com with a file it you
like. Many years ago (20+!) I used to do this sort of thing all the time
because I had access to laser printers but no plotters.

Paul DS.

[Harry Bloomfield]

on 11/09/2012, Andrew Mawson supposed :

They often come up on the local freegle /freecycle recycling systems.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

[John Rumm]

There is a program out there[1] that does exactly that... captures and
renders HPGL on a PC and then lets you do what you like with it.

However, I have used a thinkjet in the past on a HP OS 10 workstation
(on GPIB rather than RS232), and it was more your traditional inkjet
line printer (IIRC it needed specially absorbant printer paper which was
great for blotting spilt coffee etc!). Hence its quite possible that
thinkjets used either a proprietary language interface, or an early
version of PCL. If the latter, there should be plenty of things about
that will print it.



[1] http://www.aphena.com/pltgeist/pltgeist.htm


--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
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|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
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[Andrew Mawson]

"John Rumm" wrote in message
news:a5adnfxEYcIm-83N...@brightview.co.uk...

Thanks for that John, but they are asking �300 !!!!

AWEM

[Paul D Smith]

..snip...

> Thanks for that John, but they are asking �300 !!!!
>
> AWEM

How about this - a filter which will accept HPGL and render it in Word
documents? You'll still need to capture them first, but that should be
relatively simple.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/196506

I used the old version of this to import plots into my D.Phil thesis.

Paul DS.

[Paul D Smith]

"Paul D Smith" <paul_d...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:k2psls$3th$1...@dont-email.me...

Or maybe this, but I don't see if/how you can then print.

http://hpglviewer.com/

Paul DS.

[John Rumm]

Sorry had not spotted that. However there are also free equivalents
about - I was really just using it to illustrate the concept. (This
might of course all be irrelevant if it does not speak HPGL). I
certainly had some software in the past that converted HPGL to Postscript.

[Andrew Mawson]

"John Rumm" wrote in message

news:CfqdnbZhO-DbG83N...@brightview.co.uk...

Googling seems to imply it speaks in "PCL1" or "PCL1+" - file capture under
Hyperterm isn't goinmg too well as Hyperterm expects the other end to use
XModem , YModem, Kermit etc which of course isn't the case - grabbibg it as
a text file produces garbage.

Regards,
Andrew

[Paul D Smith]

...snip...

> Googling seems to imply it speaks in "PCL1" or "PCL1+" - file capture
> under Hyperterm isn't goinmg too well as Hyperterm expects the other end
> to use XModem , YModem, Kermit etc which of course isn't the case -
> grabbibg it as a text file produces garbage.

You only use XModem, YModem, Kermit etc to exchange files with another
endpoint which supports them. In ye older days, one cnnected to the far
end, enabled the (say) XModem server program and then started the XModem
client at your end.

However two terminals can just exchange "typed" characters to their heart's
content - and Hyperterminal has a "and capture as typed to a file" feature,
which is what I was intending the OP to use.

I have to admit to never having tried this using binary format files (is PCL
binary or text?) but fundamentally it should work.

Paul DS

[Paul D Smith]

"Andrew Mawson" <andrew@please_remove_me.mawson.org.uk> wrote in message
news:4tGdnUpXh_FWLNLN...@bt.com...

Another option, but $97.00

http://www.printcapture.com/index.html

Paul DS.

[Theo Markettos]

In uk.d-i-y Paul D Smith <paul_d...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> However two terminals can just exchange "typed" characters to their heart's
> content - and Hyperterminal has a "and capture as typed to a file" feature,
> which is what I was intending the OP to use.
>
> I have to admit to never having tried this using binary format files (is PCL
> binary or text?) but fundamentally it should work.

PCL is binary. I don't know how well this will work, but you can also try
from a DOS prompt:

Copy COM1: somefile.pcl

Maybe set up the port in Hyperterminal first to get the baud rate right. Do
you know what the serial settings are (7/8 bits, parity, etc)? It might be
something peculiar.

Theo

[Andy Burns]

Theo Markettos wrote:

> Copy COM1: somefile.pcl
>
> Maybe set up the port in Hyperterminal first to get the baud rate right.

If you're going to use 'DOS' to capture the stream, might was well use
it to configure the port too ...

MODE COM1: baud=19200 parity=n data=8

use mode /? for full details.

[Mark Rand]

The Thinkjet doesn't use PCL as such, PCL was a development of the Thinkjet's
control language.



Lovely printers and we did end up using the high quality, thick, absorbent
paper in India after we ran out of bog paper :-)

The Deskjet (no numbers, just Deskjet) was the official start of PCL IIRC.


Mark Rand
RTFM

[The Natural Philosopher]

Mark Rand wrote:
>
> On Tue, 11 Sep 2012 22:49:43 +0100, "Andrew Mawson"
> <andrew@please_remove_me.mawson.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> Anyone got an HP Thinkjet or Quietjet lurking gathering dust that they'd
>> like to convert to beer tokens? I want to print from an old piece of lab
>> equipment (HP1651A logic analyser) and those are the only printers it seems
>> to be able to cope with in graphics mode via its RS232 port.
>>
>> TIA
>> AWEM
>
>
> The Thinkjet doesn't use PCL as such, PCL was a development of the Thinkjet's
> control language.
>

http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Document.jsp?objectID=bpl04568

Apparently it goes back to dot matrix.

>
>
> Lovely printers and we did end up using the high quality, thick, absorbent
> paper in India after we ran out of bog paper :-)
>
> The Deskjet (no numbers, just Deskjet) was the official start of PCL IIRC.
>
>
> Mark Rand
> RTFM

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

[Andrew Mawson]

"Paul D Smith" wrote in message news:k2q5ab$qcp$1...@dont-email.me...

Yep - been talking to them today! Wanted assurance I could run it on
several pcs with one one licence (which I can if only one used at a time!)

Still would prefer a stand alone printer

AWEM

[Andrew Mawson]

"Theo Markettos" wrote in message
news:27p*gY...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...

Yes parameters easily set within the instrument - (defaults xon/xoff 8 bit
no parity 1 stop 9600 baud)

AWEM

[ChrisQ]

Andrew,

Have a stack of thinkjets, but not sure of the state, as well as other
hp graphics
capable thermal printers, also with hpib interface. Not sure if the
1651A has an hpib
interface, but can check the catalog. Most of them did. I use a ancient
9876A thermal,
fanfold paper model with my HP16500B via it's hpib port, but it does
have a serial
port as well, which can talk to a laserjet.

Can pick up the thinkjets next time i'm at the store, probably early
next week, if
that's any help. Do have one ink cartridge, but not sure of state either...

Regards,

Chris

[ChrisQ]

On 09/12/12 18:19, Andrew Mawson wrote:

>
> Yes parameters easily set within the instrument - (defaults xon/xoff 8
> bit no parity 1 stop 9600 baud)
>
> AWEM

If you want to go the file convert route, Imagemagik package should do that
and it's free. Will convert dozens of different formats to another...

Regards,

Chris

[John Rumm]

When you say garbage, are you sure that is not just because that is what
a binary file looks like when rendered as text?

It would suggest pretty much any laser printer would understand the
output as well then (since most will do at least PCL5 which I am
assuming is a superset).

Hyperterm is probably not the best tool for capturing binary though.

[Andrew Mawson]

"ChrisQ" wrote in message news:jU64s.70871$of1....@fx07.am4...

Chris that is excellent news - though I need the variant that has the RS232
interface. I think that's the 2225D model.

Where are you based - I'm in East Sussex


AWEM

[ChrisQ]

On 09/13/12 10:22, Andrew Mawson wrote:

>>
>
> Chris that is excellent news - though I need the variant that has the
> RS232 interface. I think that's the 2225D model.
>
> Where are you based - I'm in East Sussex
>
>
> AWEM

Andrew,

I think all the ones I have are either parallel, or hpib, but did check
the spec for the 1651A and it should have an hpib port on the back
panel. There should be an option in the menus to select which port to use
for the printer. Then all you need is an hpib / IEEE cable, which you
should
be able to find on fleabay for 5 ukp or so.

Am off to the store this afternoon and will bring back the printers to see
what state they are in. The print head ribbon cable is the usual problem,
at the point where it contacts the ink cartridge. They contact points are
gold pated, as are the ink cartridges, but they corrode over the years,
especially if not used for a long time. I find inkjets more trouble than
they are worth in general, which is why i'm using a thermal hpib model.
Paper is expensive for the thermal models, but you can still find it and
don't
use much of it anyway. Can bring a thermal model back if it's of interest
and you can use fax roll paper, though it won't have the form feed / top of
page cutout detect. The nice thing about hpib printers is that they work
out
of the box with most hp test gear.

Phone here is: Oxford zero one eight six five seven five zero six eight one,
if you want to take this offline...

Regards,

Chris

[John Rumm]

You might find a converter like:

http://www.printcapture.com/files/GPIB-232CV-A_Data_Sheet.pdf

would fix that...

> Where are you based - I'm in East Sussex
>
>
> AWEM

[John Rumm]

Then again, I just looked at the price of some of the converters... the
right printer would be cheaper ;-)

[Theo Markettos]

In uk.d-i-y John Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
> > You might find a converter like:
> >
> > http://www.printcapture.com/files/GPIB-232CV-A_Data_Sheet.pdf
> >
> > would fix that...
>
> Then again, I just looked at the price of some of the converters... the
> right printer would be cheaper ;-)

If you really must do GPIB, ISA bus cards are cheap. You just need to find
an old PC to put them in. I'm surprised there isn't a cheap microcontroller
solution though - GPIB is just a slightly more complicated parallel port.

Theo

[Andrew Mawson]

"Theo Markettos" wrote in message

news:37p*kQ...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...

No I need a SERIAL connected printer - the instrument only has a SERIAL
interface

AWEM

[John Rumm]

I think the suggestion was serial into an old PC, and GPIB out, just
using the PC as a standards converter (even if a bit bulky!)

[The Natural Philosopher]

John Rumm wrote:
> On 13/09/2012 20:27, Andrew Mawson wrote:
>> "Theo Markettos" wrote in message
>> news:37p*kQ...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
>>>
>>> In uk.d-i-y John Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
>>>> > You might find a converter like:
>>>> >
>>>> > http://www.printcapture.com/files/GPIB-232CV-A_Data_Sheet.pdf
>>>> >
>>>> > would fix that...
>>>>
>>>> Then again, I just looked at the price of some of the converters... the
>>>> right printer would be cheaper ;-)
>>>
>>> If you really must do GPIB, ISA bus cards are cheap. You just need to
>>> find
>>> an old PC to put them in. I'm surprised there isn't a cheap
>>> microcontroller
>>> solution though - GPIB is just a slightly more complicated parallel
>>> port.
>>>
>>> Theo
>>
>> No I need a SERIAL connected printer - the instrument only has a SERIAL
>> interface
>
> I think the suggestion was serial into an old PC, and GPIB out, just
> using the PC as a standards converter (even if a bit bulky!)
>
>

FFS if you are going that route. use your main PC equipped with a serial
board and drive any damed printer you want any way you can.

[ChrisQ]

On 09/12/12 18:19, Andrew Mawson wrote:

>

> Yes parameters easily set within the instrument - (defaults xon/xoff 8
> bit no parity 1 stop 9600 baud)
>
> AWEM

Don't know if you finally fixed it, but if not, a couple of things which
may help. Ime, the most likely things to fail are the ram chips, cpu and
eproms losing their charge and marginal 0/1 when warmed up. The first
two are
easy to fix. The eproms can often be coaxed into giving the correct
data by running at the vcc margins (4.75 / 5.25v), or outside, while
copying in
a programmer. Have had quite a few bits of old test gear with that fault
and was able to recover the data using that method...

Regards,

Chris

[Andrew Mawson]

"ChrisQ" wrote in message news:c3O5s.323827$pt3.2...@fx25.am4...

Well I'm making progress! I found (thanks to my HP Logic Analyser) a
74LS163 that was counting when it was supposed to be inhibited - changing
that has at least got characters displayed on the screen, but they are
random. As far as I can detect the CPU isn't writing to the VDU static ram
so I'm tracing through the code following it's start up process. Fortunately
I can capture the read and write cycles from the 8085 CPU and thus see what
code it is reading from the rom and follow it's progress. Waiting for a 40
pin ic test clip to arrive (hopefully tomorrow) to more easily follow all 8
data and 16 address bits - it does seem to be reading sensible data from the
ROM board. What makes progress slow is the lack of any circuit diagrams - so
far I have belled out the circuit of the CPU card, Video Card, Video timing
card, and the far from simple backboard - only six more pcbs to bell out and
I'll have all the circuits. The pcbs range from about 25 to 50 ic's each!

AWEM

[ChrisQ]

On 09/18/12 20:33, Andrew Mawson wrote:

>
> Well I'm making progress! I found (thanks to my HP Logic Analyser) a
> 74LS163 that was counting when it was supposed to be inhibited -
> changing that has at least got characters displayed on the screen, but
> they are random. As far as I can detect the CPU isn't writing to the VDU
> static ram so I'm tracing through the code following it's start up
> process. Fortunately I can capture the read and write cycles from the
> 8085 CPU and thus see what code it is reading from the rom and follow
> it's progress. Waiting for a 40 pin ic test clip to arrive (hopefully
> tomorrow) to more easily follow all 8 data and 16 address bits - it does
> seem to be reading sensible data from the ROM board. What makes progress
> slow is the lack of any circuit diagrams - so far I have belled out the
> circuit of the CPU card, Video Card, Video timing card, and the far from
> simple backboard - only six more pcbs to bell out and I'll have all the
> circuits. The pcbs range from about 25 to 50 ic's each!
>
> AWEM

That's good - there are times when only a la will get the job done, but
admit
i've always baulked at the idea of tracing out schematics on multi
device pcbs.

Another thing that sometimes works is to burn in the boards in an oven
at 70C,
(no more) as this will drive out any damp in the circuits. In the case
of test
gear with mos circuits, leave the thing powered up for a few days, which
probably
achieves the same effect. I have a 54112D scope that had been left out
in a shed
for a couple of years. 3 channels worked, one intermittent and noisy.
Powered
up for a week continuous and it's been fine ever since. It did only cost
40.00
ukp on fleabay and was well worth the effort.

Let me know if there's anything else I can help with...

Regards,

Chris