Re: Another number to bar 004254069022

[Bob Hobden]

"Martin" wrote ...
>
>"I want to fix your computer" scammer.
>
Relative had this a few weeks back and she nearly fell for it before
remembering what I've told her, she asked him to ring back after she had
talked to her expert.
For any that haven't heard about this scam ...
http://www.hoax-slayer.com/microsoft-callers-scam.shtml


-- Regards
Bob Hobden
Posting to this Newsgroup
from the W.of London. UK

[Sam Plusnet]

In article <eo87p8p9p6o136p46...@4ax.com>,
m...@address.invalid says...

>
> On Wed, 15 May 2013 15:53:38 +0100, "Bob Hobden" <Bo...@privacy.net>
> wrote:
>
> >"Martin" wrote ...
> >>
> >>"I want to fix your computer" scammer.
> >>
> >Relative had this a few weeks back and she nearly fell for it before
> >remembering what I've told her, she asked him to ring back after she had
> >talked to her expert.
> >For any that haven't heard about this scam ...
> >http://www.hoax-slayer.com/microsoft-callers-scam.shtml
>

> It's not always Microsoft. Last week's call was Tiscali wanting to fix
> a virus that was sending them spam.
> Even when you bar them they carry on calling. There's a site listing
> some of the many numbers that they use, it shouldn't be a major task
> for the phone companies to bar these numbers.
> http://england.telefonbuchsuche.com/number/004254069022

Your TelCo must get some money from the calls so there's nothing it it
for them.
Also, there's the possibility that they might be sued by a legitimate
company. Even a dodgy company might think it worth a punt - and they're
all legitimate unless & until you can prove otherwise.

--
Sam

[Baz]

Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote in
news:hho6p8plnkhdm4tjn...@4ax.com:

> "I want to fix your computer" scammer.

Best way, is when they ask to speak to the account holder or anyone else is
to say politely "I will go and get him/her". then lay down the phone on the
table or whatever and let them get all fed up and irate, knowing that they
are talking to themselves.
There is a way to stop this rubbish and I think it is called telephone
preference or something. Some, but not by any means all still get through.

Baz

[Stephen Wolstenholme]

On Wed, 15 May 2013 15:24:08 GMT, Baz <b...@fawlty.com> wrote:

>Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote in
>news:hho6p8plnkhdm4tjn...@4ax.com:
>
>> "I want to fix your computer" scammer.
>
>Best way, is when they ask to speak to the account holder or anyone else is
>to say politely "I will go and get him/her". then lay down the phone on the
>table or whatever and let them get all fed up and irate, knowing that they
>are talking to themselves.

Some scammers are familiar with most of the methods we use to waste
their time. I tried "getting the user" this morning and the caller
hung up.

>There is a way to stop this rubbish and I think it is called telephone
>preference or something. Some, but not by any means all still get through.
>

Telephone Preference Service. It does not stop all UK calls and
international calls get through.

Steve

--
EasyNN-plus. Neural Networks plus. http://www.easynn.com
SwingNN. Forecast with Neural Networks. http://www.swingnn.com
JustNN. Just Neural Networks. http://www.justnn.com

[David Hill]

What computer?
I don't have a computer

"You have problems with your windows"
I don't want windows,
My son just got me new windows.
He told me they'd be warmer for me, but I still need a cardigan.
I think he just did it for the money.

Etc. etc.

I don't know why they hang up.

David @ a sunny part of Swansea Bay

[Sacha]

On 2013-05-15 11:24:13 +0100, Martin said:

> "I want to fix your computer" scammer.

We have caller recognition. If we don't know the person calling, we
don't answer unless it's a *very* local number. They can leave a messge
and we can decide to call back, or not. And our house number is
ex-directory, which is surely the easiest way of protecting oneself? Or
am I being naiive?!
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

[Dave Liquorice]

On Wed, 15 May 2013 17:50:19 +0200, Martin wrote:

> National watchdogs are there to prevent the abuse of communication
> systems.

One mans abuse is another mans legitimate business.

The TPS ought to work reasonably well within the UK but is powerless over
calls orginating overseas. If you have a residential BT line you can get
"privacy at home" this registers your number with the TPS and provides
free CallerID.

http://www.bt.com/pricing/current/Exch_Lines_boo/3410_d0e1.htm#3410-d0e1

Real details in the above link not marketing speak.

You can sign up online takes a couple of days to activate the CLID, TPS
write to you within about a week. Going ex-directory may well help as
well, saw a link to sign up for that on the BT site somewhere.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[Sam Plusnet]

In article <kob7p89re7hg7u63i...@4ax.com>,
m...@address.invalid says...

>
> On Wed, 15 May 2013 16:17:21 +0100, Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <eo87p8p9p6o136p46...@4ax.com>,
> >m...@address.invalid says...
> >>
> >> On Wed, 15 May 2013 15:53:38 +0100, "Bob Hobden" <Bo...@privacy.net>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >"Martin" wrote ...
> >> >>
> >> >>"I want to fix your computer" scammer.
> >> >>
> >> >Relative had this a few weeks back and she nearly fell for it before
> >> >remembering what I've told her, she asked him to ring back after she had
> >> >talked to her expert.
> >> >For any that haven't heard about this scam ...
> >> >http://www.hoax-slayer.com/microsoft-callers-scam.shtml
> >>
> >> It's not always Microsoft. Last week's call was Tiscali wanting to fix
> >> a virus that was sending them spam.
> >> Even when you bar them they carry on calling. There's a site listing
> >> some of the many numbers that they use, it shouldn't be a major task
> >> for the phone companies to bar these numbers.
> >> http://england.telefonbuchsuche.com/number/004254069022
> >
> >Your TelCo must get some money from the calls so there's nothing it it
> >for them.
>

> In which case they are aiding and abetting fraud.

A postal service which delivers a ransom demand could be considered to
be aiding and abetting kidnapping - but I doubt a case against them
would succeed.
The TelCo is not responsible for the content of calls, their business
would be impossible if it were so.

>
> >Also, there's the possibility that they might be sued by a legitimate
> >company. Even a dodgy company might think it worth a punt - and they're
> >all legitimate unless & until you can prove otherwise.
>

> The Dutch police have been issuing warnings about these numbers.
> The Dutch watchdog prosecutes anybody playing similar tricks using
> Dutch national telephone numbers.

If a UK TelCo took action on this they would make themselves open to
legal action, and saying "the Netherlands Police said so" would not be a
defence.
It may be a small risk, but there is no incentive for them to take this
risk.
UK Legislation would be needed before they would take any such action.


--
Sam

[Sam Plusnet]

In article <avhtpr...@mid.individual.net>, not...@nowhere.com
says...

>
> On 2013-05-15 11:24:13 +0100, Martin said:
>
> > "I want to fix your computer" scammer.
>
> We have caller recognition. If we don't know the person calling, we
> don't answer unless it's a *very* local number. They can leave a messge
> and we can decide to call back, or not. And our house number is
> ex-directory, which is surely the easiest way of protecting oneself? Or
> am I being naiive?!

"our house number is ex-directory" That threw me for a moment, but I
think I know what you mean.

Some auto-dialers just dial several random numbers & connect whichever
answers first.
I assume that if someone picks up, that number it tagged as a live one &
will be re-dialled later if necessary.
If that's true then being ex-directory won't protect you.

--
Sam

[Christina Websell]

"Martin" <m...@address.invalid> wrote in message
news:hho6p8plnkhdm4tjn...@4ax.com...

> "I want to fix your computer" scammer.

> --
>
> Martin in Zuid Holland
>

My 87 year old aunt fell for this in December last year. It was my birthday
and luckily I'd arranged to spend the day with her. When I got there she
told me "I've been on the phone most of the morning with Microsoft and I've
given them my card number to sort out a problem on my computer"

Aaargh! It took most of the day on to the Fraud Dept at her bank to sort it
out, and that was my birthday ruined.
We'd planned a nice meal and an afternoon out.

The bank froze her card and said the scammer had made 52!! attempts to
access her account from India.

To add insult to injury they tried again with her last month.

Tina

[Dave Liquorice]

On Wed, 15 May 2013 18:38:04 +0100, Sam Plusnet wrote:

> Some auto-dialers just dial several random numbers & connect whichever
> answers first. I assume that if someone picks up, that number it tagged
> as a live one & will be re-dialled later if necessary.

Pretty sure random/sequential auto-dialers aren't legal in the UK, they
have to work off a list that should also be filtered against the TPS. The
auto-dialers work through the list, which may also contain contact
information, and when some one answers trys to connect the call to a free
teletubbie and brings up the contact info on their screen along with the
script for them to follow for that particular call.

Before the connection to the teletubbie is made there is a bit of
complete silence, that can be a give away of a cold call. If I answer a
call from an "unknown" number and get silence for a moment or two I stay
silent as well. I might respond to their eventual "hello?" or just put
the phone on the desk and wait for them to give up...

I have been caught out a couple of times when some one was calling from a
*very* quiet place from a number I didn't recognise.

> If that's true then being ex-directory won't protect you.

It will from the legal UK operators as will the TPS. Being ex-directory
stop a public source of your number name and address so may help a little
with the less scrupulious and/or overseas operators.

The other thing to watch out for is your TPS registration expiring. The
TPS is funded by the colder callers so they don't really want people on
it, so they expire registrations after a period. As "people may change
their mind" or "the number may have transferred to some one else", valid
but weak reasons IMHO.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[David Hill]

On 15/05/2013 20:36, Dave Liquorice wrote:
> On Wed, 15 May 2013 18:38:04 +0100, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>
>> Some auto-dialers just dial several random numbers & connect whichever
>> answers first. I assume that if someone picks up, that number it tagged
>> as a live one & will be re-dialled later if necessary.
>
> Pretty sure random/sequential auto-dialers aren't legal in the UK, they
> have to work off a list that should also be filtered against the TPS. The
> auto-dialers work through the list, which may also contain contact
> information, and when some one answers trys to connect the call to a free
> teletubbie and brings up the contact info on their screen along with the
> script for them to follow for that particular call.

I love it when you get a caller and they ask to speak to *****
When I say NO there is a long silence as they have been thrown as their
script doesn't allow for that answer.

[Bob Hobden]

"Sam Plusnet" wrote

>
>>
>> Martin said:
>>
>> > "I want to fix your computer" scammer.
>>
>> We have caller recognition. If we don't know the person calling, we
>> don't answer unless it's a *very* local number. They can leave a messge
>> and we can decide to call back, or not. And our house number is
>> ex-directory, which is surely the easiest way of protecting oneself? Or
>> am I being naiive?!
>
>"our house number is ex-directory" That threw me for a moment, but I
>think I know what you mean.
>
>Some auto-dialers just dial several random numbers & connect whichever
>answers first.
>I assume that if someone picks up, that number it tagged as a live one &
>will be re-dialled later if necessary.
>If that's true then being ex-directory won't protect you.
>
>

We have been ex-directory for about 30 years and have been registered with
the TPS for a long time too but we still get calls from firms trying to get
us to do surveys and similar. Always foreign.
--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK

[Peter James]

Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:

> "I want to fix your computer" scammer.

I had an Indian "gentleman" on the phone last month doing as descibed.
I told him, yes I had a computer and yes it was running slowly and
erratically. He then started to give me instruction to turn on the
computer etc, etc. At this point I told him it was a very poor line and
I couldn't hear him very well. He must have turned up the gain at his
end, but whatever, after a moment he sounded very much louder and very
clear.

At this point I blew my dog training whistle down the 'phone. The dog
went berserk, he shouted and the line went dead. Maybe he suffered from
a ruptured ear drum. Who knows, and who cares.

I'm sure I will continue to get these calls, but for a moment I felt a
lot better. I might try this again sometime.

It relieves the frustrations brought on by these dodgy "snake oil"
salesmen.

Peter


--
He spoke with a certain what-is-it in his voice, and I could see
that, if not actually disgruntled he was far from being gruntled.
P.G. Wodehouse 1881 - 1975

[Dave Liquorice]

On Thu, 16 May 2013 09:29:37 +0200, Martin wrote:

> Thanks for the tip. I have the dog whistle ready for the next unwanted
> caller.

Why resort to abusing the poor person just trying to earn a crust for
their family? It's the fault of the company that has contracted the cold
calling company to make the calls not the poorly paid worker being force
fed calls as fast as they can deal with them. You don't think they sit
there manually dialling and listening to ringing do you? When they
terminate a call the next, already answered, call is presented straight
away.

Much better to try and get the name of the company they are working for
and the name of the company the cold call is for and making an official
complaint. Ofcom might be a bit of toothless tiger but they do take
action, where they can, if they get enough complaints.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[Dave Liquorice]

On Wed, 15 May 2013 22:54:01 +0100, Bob Hobden wrote:

> We have been ex-directory for about 30 years and have been registered
> with the TPS for a long time too but we still get calls from firms
> trying to get us to do surveys and similar. Always foreign.

Not a lot can be done about forgien. But how many calls do you get?
Appears some people get several per evening, I'd say we don't get any but
that is quite true, we get maybe one/two a month. The most frequent is
banking "wanting to discuss your account" FOAD! Not going to do that over
the phone, write to me if it's that important. I think these are actually
genuine calls not scam ones...

--
Cheers
Dave.

[cotula]

On Thu, 16 May 2013 08:59:19 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
<allsortsn...@howhill.com> wrote:

>Why resort to abusing the poor person just trying to earn a crust for
>their family?

Quite - when 'Microsoft' rang my father (who never had a computer)
with the computer fix scam, I got to the phone first and told the
Indian-sounding person I was sorry for them having to work for such a
crooked boss.

Gardening on Wilts/Somerset border
on slightly alkaline clay.

[Sacha]

On 2013-05-15 22:43:34 +0100, Martin said:

> On Wed, 15 May 2013 18:09:15 +0100, Sacha <not...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2013-05-15 11:24:13 +0100, Martin said:
>>
>>> "I want to fix your computer" scammer.
>>
>> We have caller recognition. If we don't know the person calling, we
>> don't answer unless it's a *very* local number. They can leave a messge
>> and we can decide to call back, or not. And our house number is
>> ex-directory,
>

> but your business number isn't.

>
>> which is surely the easiest way of protecting oneself? Or
>> am I being naiive?!

We have TPS & FPS on the business number because we used to faxes
coming through at 3am, advertising cheap cigarettes or somesuch. Very
occasionally - and I do mean 'very' - we get a call on that line asking
if we want to switch energy providers or whatever it may be. Whoever
answers just says 'no thank you' immediately and puts the phone down.
If they ask for Ray by name he asks what they're trying to sell him now
and says he doesn't want any of it!

[Sacha]

An old lady had her 80th birthday tea in our Tea Room last month. When
it came to paying, she handed over her card with the pin number on a
PostIt note. Whoever was on the till explained she couldn't, or
shouldn't, give her pin number to anyone but just couldn't get her to
understand. The poor old lady was convinced she had to give the pin
number to whoever was on any till, anywhere, "because otherwise, how
will you know what number to enter?" Aaaagh! Luckily, she'd written
it down wrongly anyway and her husband came up with the cash!

[vi...@dinky.vm.bytemark.co.uk]

Dave Liquorice <allsortsn...@howhill.com> wrote:
> Not a lot can be done about forgien. But how many calls do you get?
> Appears some people get several per evening, I'd say we don't get any but
> that is quite true, we get maybe one/two a month. The most frequent is
> banking "wanting to discuss your account" FOAD! Not going to do that over
> the phone, write to me if it's that important. I think these are actually
> genuine calls not scam ones...

They seem to come in spates. Or maybe it's just that I'm in the house more
earlier in the week. This week I had one or two on Monday evening, and one
or two during the day on Tuesday (when I wfh). I am home all day Friday and
don't tend to get them then, although I think I've had one on a Friday recently
when I was trying to get out to pick the kids up, so 3.15

[Sacha]

On 2013-05-16 07:21:01 +0100, Peter James said:

> Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:
>
>> "I want to fix your computer" scammer.
> I had an Indian "gentleman" on the phone last month doing as descibed.
> I told him, yes I had a computer and yes it was running slowly and
> erratically. He then started to give me instruction to turn on the
> computer etc, etc. At this point I told him it was a very poor line and
> I couldn't hear him very well. He must have turned up the gain at his
> end, but whatever, after a moment he sounded very much louder and very
> clear.
>
> At this point I blew my dog training whistle down the 'phone. The dog
> went berserk, he shouted and the line went dead. Maybe he suffered from
> a ruptured ear drum. Who knows, and who cares.
>
> I'm sure I will continue to get these calls, but for a moment I felt a
> lot better. I might try this again sometime.
>
> It relieves the frustrations brought on by these dodgy "snake oil"
> salesmen.
>
> Peter

The problem with that is that man is just trying to earn a living and
is probably impoverished. You haven't deterred the people who employ
him and - if his hearing really is damaged - will simply sack him with
no pay-off and employ someone else. Your Indian gentleman was merely
working for the person with whom you have a grievance and it is not the
boss who has had his hearing damaged. But you may have deprived the
worker of his only means of financial support.

[Sacha]

On 2013-05-16 11:47:13 +0100, Martin said:

> Most unlikely anyway a phone won't generate a volume that could cause
> hearing damage.

>
>> But you may have deprived the
>> worker of his only means of financial support.
>

> You obviously haven't had the experience of talking to some of these
> people. One Asian woman threatened to plant a virus in my brain and
> send a team to sort out me and my family. They are not nice people.
> They are very thick skinned. If you think that robbing the gullible of
> their life savings justifies helping them to keep their jobs you are
> sympathising with the wrong people.

Taking it on a case by case basis, the man Peter spoke to let out a
shout when the whistle was blown into his ear, suggesting that he was
either very alarmed, or perhaps hurt. Certainly there doesn't seem to
be any concern as to whether he was. If one did that to someone in the
street here, it would probably be considered to be assault. There was
no suggestion that this man threatened anyone, so that treatment wasn't
warranted as in meeting threats with threat. And yes, I have had
experience in the past of dealing with such people as these cold
callers. The answer is as above, have caller recognition for family and
close friends and don't answer numbers you don't believe to be genuine
acquaintances. Alternatively, saying 'no' and putting the phone down is
another option that is a lot less time-consuming than some of those
outlined above by so many people. I don't know if it's available in UK
but some American friends of mine have a message on their phone that
enquires the name of the person calling before connecting the call.
They have the option of answering it or not at that point. Sounds like
a good gizmo to me. If the person ringing from the unrecognisable
number is genuine, they'll leave a message if you invest in an
answering machine.

[Janet]

In article <nyyfbegfubjuvyypb...@srv1.howhill.co.uk>,
allsortsn...@howhill.com says...

>
> On Wed, 15 May 2013 22:54:01 +0100, Bob Hobden wrote:
>
> > We have been ex-directory for about 30 years and have been registered
> > with the TPS for a long time too but we still get calls from firms
> > trying to get us to do surveys and similar. Always foreign.
>
> Not a lot can be done about forgien. But how many calls do you get?
> Appears some people get several per evening, I'd say we don't get any but
> that is quite true, we get maybe one/two a month.

We are ex-directory with TPS and *very* rarely get overseas sales
calls nowadays. IME, these days overseas cold callers with Indian
accents are well aware what UK TPS is, and readily comply when asked to
honour it by removing the number form their database.

What is more insidious, IMO, is UK cold callers who ignore TPS on
the (fake) excuse of being a previous business contact/ existing service
provider and therefore legitimate to call their existing clienton the
number the client "provided". I invite them to make their enquiry on
paper by snail mail to the address which they surely possess as self-
proclaimed service provider.To date none has ever done so.

Janet.

[Peter James]

Dave Liquorice <allsortsn...@howhill.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 16 May 2013 09:29:37 +0200, Martin wrote:
>
> > Thanks for the tip. I have the dog whistle ready for the next unwanted
> > caller.
>
> Why resort to abusing the poor person just trying to earn a crust for
> their family? It's the fault of the company that has contracted the cold
> calling company to make the calls not the poorly paid worker being force
> fed calls as fast as they can deal with them. You don't think they sit
> there manually dialling and listening to ringing do you? When they
> terminate a call the next, already answered, call is presented straight
> away.

But as individuals they are still ready to resort to lies in order to
get the persons bank details. I bet they're on a commision for every
mug they catch, so no I have no sympathy for them. If they have a
conscience then go get another job.

> Much better to try and get the name of the company they are working for
> and the name of the company the cold call is for and making an official
> complaint. Ofcom might be a bit of toothless tiger but they do take
> action, where they can, if they get enough complaints.

They are powerless to act when the company concerned is not in the U.K.
or in Europe.

[Janet]

In article <avjl3a...@mid.individual.net>, not...@nowhere.com
says...

> An old lady had her 80th birthday tea in our Tea Room last month. When
> it came to paying,

Birthday granny pays for her own birthday treat? Doesn't ring any
alarm bells?

>she handed over her card with the pin number on a
> PostIt note. Whoever was on the till explained she couldn't, or
> shouldn't, give her pin number to anyone but just couldn't get her to
> understand. The poor old lady was convinced she had to give the pin
> number to whoever was on any till, anywhere, "because otherwise, how
> will you know what number to enter?" Aaaagh! Luckily, she'd written
> it down wrongly anyway

You could drive a bus through the holes in THAT cover story :-)

>and her husband came up with the cash!

Funny he didn't do that in the first place. Or replace her card with
his own.

More likely she was offering a stolen card whose PIN she did not
possess, hoping the silly sweet old birthday granny act would persuade
induce your staff to ignore training and let the transaction proceed
despite no authorisation.

" Dear old granny isn't quite with it, bless her" is just the
latest front cover from the same crook stable as shoplifters whose tiny
child "innocently" helps themselves and slips the goods under their
comfot blanket.


Janet.

[vi...@dinky.vm.bytemark.co.uk]

Janet <h...@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
> More likely she was offering a stolen card whose PIN she did not
> possess, hoping the silly sweet old birthday granny act would persuade
> induce your staff to ignore training and let the transaction proceed
> despite no authorisation.

You are /so/ impressively cynical! I almost feel jealous.

[Sacha]

What utter rot! This is a regular customer who comes here, with her
husband, at least once a month and had *booked* the tea for her and her
family two months before the event. They usually buy some cake to
take home, too. We don't ask our customers why they choose to pay
their bills as they prefer.

[Sacha]

I really wouldn't if I were you. It's a load of imaginative nonsense.

[David Hill]

>> " Dear old granny isn't quite with it, bless her" is just the
>> latest front cover from the same crook stable as shoplifters whose tiny
>> child "innocently" helps themselves and slips the goods under their
>> comfot blanket.
>>
>>
>> Janet.
>>
>>
> What utter rot! This is a regular customer who comes here, with her
> husband, at least once a month and had *booked* the tea for her and her
> family two months before the event. They usually buy some cake to take
> home, too. We don't ask our customers why they choose to pay their
> bills as they prefer.

This brings to mind an incident when I worked in Cardiff.
A colleague of mine was Blind and used a Guide Dog, well she was in one
of the larger stores in Cardiff buying a couple of things, she paid. and
was walking out when she was stopped near the doors,"Excuse me madam,
but are you aware that your dog has picked up a toy and is walking out
with it?"
Very embarrassed she insisted on paying for it.

[Jake]

On Thu, 16 May 2013 16:05:07 +0100, Sacha <not...@nowhere.com> wrote:

>>
>What utter rot! This is a regular customer who comes here, with her
>husband, at least once a month and had *booked* the tea for her and her
>family two months before the event. They usually buy some cake to
>take home, too. We don't ask our customers why they choose to pay
>their bills as they prefer.

I discovered that my Mother was doing the same thing in supermarkets.
So sister and I worked alternate months, taking her shopping (she
lived about 3 hours drive away from either of us) or ordering online
and arranging delivery for her.

I often see older people pulling out slips of paper with their PIN
written clearly and then asking someone what the number is as they
cannot see well enough to read it. For that matter, I often see
younger people referring to codes stored on their mobile phone and
even reading them out loud as they type them in!

So your story is perfectly feasible.

--
Cheers, Jake
=======================================
Urgling from the East end of Swansea Bay where it's May
and I'm worried about minus zero temperaturess forecast

[Sam Plusnet]

In article <nyyfbegfubjuvyypb...@srv1.howhill.co.uk>,
allsortsn...@howhill.com says...

> The other thing to watch out for is your TPS registration expiring. The
> TPS is funded by the colder callers so they don't really want people on
> it, so they expire registrations after a period. As "people may change
> their mind" or "the number may have transferred to some one else", valid
> but weak reasons IMHO.
>
>
From the TPS website FAQ

"Do I need to renew my registration with the Telephone Preference
Service (TPS)

If you have registered a residential number or a number belonging to a
sole trader or (except in Scotland) partnership, you do not need to
renew.
However, if you have registered a number on to the Corporate TPS
belonging to a Limited company, Plc or other large organisation, you are
required to renew annually. In this case TPS will send you an e-mail
each year to notify you of this. Failure to renew will result in your
number(s) being removed from the CTPS data file. Please be aware that if
you change your telephone package, obtained broadband or change
telephone line service provider for example, we may receive notice from
your current/old line service provider that your line has been made
inactive. In this case your number would be removed from the file as the
service is only intended for live numbers."

So for most people TPS does not expire - It might not do a whole load of
good, but it won't expire.


--
Sam

[Sam Plusnet]

In article <MPG.2bfeeb202...@news.individual.net>,
h...@nowhere.co.uk says...

> We are ex-directory with TPS and *very* rarely get overseas sales
> calls nowadays. IME, these days overseas cold callers with Indian
> accents are well aware what UK TPS is, and readily comply when asked to
> honour it by removing the number form their database.

Of course, your number shouldn't have been in their database in the
first place, so offering to remove it is a little like a burglar
agreeing to leave when so requested. The TPS may not be in force in
India, but a lot of these calls are on behalf of a UK company.

>
> What is more insidious, IMO, is UK cold callers who ignore TPS on
> the (fake) excuse of being a previous business contact/ existing service
> provider and therefore legitimate to call their existing clienton the
> number the client "provided".

It's a very small fig-leaf to hide behind, but they think it's enough.
If the complaint were pursued, it would probably be enough to ensure
they were only told "Don't do it again" (i.e. contact that individual).

After all most of us are unlikely to do nothing more than speak sharply
& put the phone down.


--
Sam

[Sam Plusnet]

In article <avkaui...@mid.individual.net>, not...@nowhere.com
says...

>
> On 2013-05-16 15:40:39 +0100, <vi...@dinky.vm.bytemark.co.uk> said:
>
> > Janet <h...@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
> >> More likely she was offering a stolen card whose PIN she did not
> >> possess, hoping the silly sweet old birthday granny act would persuade
> >> induce your staff to ignore training and let the transaction proceed
> >> despite no authorisation.
> >
> > You are /so/ impressively cynical! I almost feel jealous.
>
> I really wouldn't if I were you. It's a load of imaginative nonsense.

No. I'm sure Janet is right and they're all at it.
The next time you see some old granny, it's probably for the best if you
smack her in the mouth before she tries some scam on you.
Better safe than sorry.

--
Sam

[Sam Plusnet]

In article <avjq72...@mid.individual.net>, not...@nowhere.com
says...

snip

> The problem with that is that man is just trying to earn a living and
> is probably impoverished.
>
>

This was the Microsoft scam.
He was a criminal attempting to defraud someone. The fact that he might
only receive a percentage of the money stolen, does not make him less
guilty.
I don't feel sympathy for people who rob Post Offices, why should I feel
sorry for him?


--
Sam

[Dave Liquorice]

On Thu, 16 May 2013 20:49:12 +0100, Sam Plusnet wrote:

> From the TPS website FAQ
>
> "Do I need to renew my registration with the Telephone Preference
> Service (TPS)
>
> If you have registered a residential number or a number belonging to a
> sole trader or (except in Scotland) partnership, you do not need to
> renew.
> However, if you have registered a number on to the Corporate TPS
> belonging to a Limited company, Plc or other large organisation, you
> are required to renew annually. In this case TPS will send you an
> e-mail each year to notify you of this. Failure to renew will result in
> your number(s) being removed from the CTPS data file.

> Please be aware that if you change your telephone package, obtained
> broadband or change telephone line service provider for example, we may
> receive notice from your current/old line service provider that your
> line has been made inactive. In this case your number would be removed
> from the file as the service is only intended for live numbers."

> So for most people TPS does not expire - It might not do a whole load
> of good, but it won't expire.

Note that last paragraph that I've moved away from the corporate stuff to
"unhide" it... If you actaully read it it doesn't make sense, Why would
changing your calling plan or adding broadband make the line "inactive"?
They even use "current/old line provider". just to confuse things even
further.

I think they use any change on the line to indicate removal from the
list, they aren't going to admit that though. It's not an "expiry" but a
"consequence".

--
Cheers
Dave.

[Emery Davis]

On Thu, 16 May 2013 18:10:42 +0100, David Hill wrote:

> This brings to mind an incident when I worked in Cardiff.
> A colleague of mine was Blind and used a Guide Dog, well she was in one
> of the larger stores in Cardiff buying a couple of things, she paid. and
> was walking out when she was stopped near the doors,"Excuse me madam,
> but are you aware that your dog has picked up a toy and is walking out
> with it?" Very embarrassed she insisted on paying for it.

Heh, something similar happened to my dog last year. He's a Golden
Retriever who doesn't take much attention as he just follows around and
lays down when I get where I'm going in a store. I almost always bring
him to the farmers coop, where he's very welcomed indeed by the staff.
This particular time, I was picking up some fence HW, near where the big
bags of pressed dog bones are sold, apparently some had gotten on the
floor. I came up to the register, it was pointer out that Cooper had a
bone in his mouth... However they gave it to us, thankfully!

Cor, just back from seeing "Gatsby." Why this was in 3D I'll never know,
and the rap music from the 20s was, er, interesting. I'll say stay away,
although Adele quite liked it. (But loooong).



--
Gardening in Lower Normandy

[Sacha]

On 2013-05-16 20:16:03 +0100, Jake said:

> On Thu, 16 May 2013 16:05:07 +0100, Sacha <not...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>>>
>> What utter rot! This is a regular customer who comes here, with her
>> husband, at least once a month and had *booked* the tea for her and her
>> family two months before the event. They usually buy some cake to
>> take home, too. We don't ask our customers why they choose to pay
>> their bills as they prefer.
>
> I discovered that my Mother was doing the same thing in supermarkets.
> So sister and I worked alternate months, taking her shopping (she
> lived about 3 hours drive away from either of us) or ordering online
> and arranging delivery for her.
>
> I often see older people pulling out slips of paper with their PIN
> written clearly and then asking someone what the number is as they
> cannot see well enough to read it. For that matter, I often see
> younger people referring to codes stored on their mobile phone and
> even reading them out loud as they type them in!
>
> So your story is perfectly feasible.

What can I say? It happened and she's a regular customer not some
wannabe geriatric Bonnie! She'd somehow confused something 'the woman
in the Post Office' told her about some number or card or something
that was nothing whatsoever to do with her PIN and her credit card.
Our staff member tried explaining to her that her card was nothing to
do with the PO and that she absolutely mustn't hand over her PIN number
to *anyone*, ever. But she kept saying that if she didn't give the PIN
number, we couldn't put the card through the machine. I can only
imagine she was confusing the long number and the PIN number in some
way and had in any case got the PIN wrong. Her husband was saying
goodbye to 14 family members and had to come inside again to extricate
her from the muddle which was distressing her, poor soul. To follow
on, about 5 years ago, Ray took someone's card, did all the business
bit and said to her, can you put in your PIN number and she promptly
reeled it off to him. He suggested she contacted her bank to change
it! If people have their PIN number written down in a place where they
keep their card, they're not insured against theft. For some reason to
do with my brain's hard-wiring, I remember numbers for years but forget
names almost instantly. But at least my PINs are lodged where nobody
else can get to them!

[Sam Plusnet]

In article <nyyfbegfubjuvyypb...@srv1.howhill.co.uk>,
allsortsn...@howhill.com says...
>

We've been on TPS for decades.
In that time we've changed ISPs several times & shifted our phone from
BT to another company.
We're still listed on TPS.

Think about it. If BT or another operator did list a number as
"inactive", then it is reasonable for the TPS to assume the number could
be re-issued to a new subscriber who might not _want_ to be listed on
TPS.
In that case it would make sense for the TPS to de-list that number.

But this would only happen to you if a service provider (wrongly) listed
your number as inactive when it's actually been transferred to another
provider.

--
Sam

[Stephen Wolstenholme]

On Thu, 16 May 2013 23:02:30 +0100, Sacha <not...@nowhere.com> wrote:

>If people have their PIN number written down in a place where they
>keep their card, they're not insured against theft.

I don't write my PIN numbers down and always forget them. Fortunately
on of my carers remembers them. It I ever want to get rid of her I
will have to kill her!

> For some reason to
>do with my brain's hard-wiring, I remember numbers for years but forget
>names almost instantly. But at least my PINs are lodged where nobody
>else can get to them!

I forget both names and numbers but I remember faces. Last week I had
a conversation with a woman I thought I remembered. I later asked my
wife who it was. My wife had no idea. So there is now a woman who met
a crazy old man in a wheelchair last week!

Steve

[Janet]

In article <10sbp8l62t1hrh8ug...@4ax.com>,
eas...@googlemail.com says...

>
> On Thu, 16 May 2013 23:02:30 +0100, Sacha <not...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> >If people have their PIN number written down in a place where they
> >keep their card, they're not insured against theft.
>
> I don't write my PIN numbers down and always forget them. Fortunately
> on of my carers remembers them. It I ever want to get rid of her I
> will have to kill her!

I use a mnemonic. All I have to do is remember the mnemonic...

Janet

[vi...@dinky.vm.bytemark.co.uk]

Janet <h...@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>> I don't write my PIN numbers down and always forget them. Fortunately
>> on of my carers remembers them. It I ever want to get rid of her I
>> will have to kill her!
>
> I use a mnemonic. All I have to do is remember the mnemonic...

When I first got a PIN back in, - ooh, 1987 .. ? - the advice was to
write down the letters like on an old phone (or old mobile for text
messaging!), then have a 4 letter word that corresponded to the numbers.
A word, in theory, being easier to remember than the numbers. Then as
long as you don't write the word down (or not obviously at least), you
can happily keep the 'decode' sheet with your card.

[Sacha]

Have you heard the lovely story of the man who met a woman whose face
he recognised but he couldn't for the life of him think who she was. He
cudgelled his memory and recalled she had a sister. Relief - something
to talk about! "And what's your sister up to these days?" he asked.
"Still Queen", said Princess Margaret. ;-)

[Janet]

In article <avmogg...@mid.individual.net>,
vi...@dinky.vm.bytemark.co.uk says...

Far better to make a list of songs whose words or titles contain
numbers, choose as many as you need and alter your PIN accordingly.
76 trombones in the Hit Parade
3 coins in the Fountain
O solo mio (hah, cunning)

gives you a PIN you can securely hum to yourself in the checkout
queue.

Which is fine so long as you don't get distracted and start humming a
psalm, Johnny Cash and Madonna.

Janet.

[kay]

Janet;983528 Wrote:
>
> Far better to make a list of songs whose words or titles contain
> numbers, choose as many as you need and alter your PIN accordingly.
> 76 trombones in the Hit Parade
> 3 coins in the Fountain
> O solo mio (hah, cunning)
>
> gives you a PIN you can securely hum to yourself in the checkout
> queue.
>

Or construct a memorable phrase whose word lengths match your pin, like
has been done for ages for the value of pi (3.14159 etc):

"How I wish a drink, alcoholic of course, after the heavy lectures
involving quantum mechanics!"

or

" Sir, I bear a rhyme excelling
In mystic force and magic spelling
Celestial sprites elucidate
All my own striving can't relate
Or locate they who can cogitate
And so finally terminate. Finis"




--
kay

[Dave Liquorice]

On Fri, 17 May 2013 00:09:49 +0100, Sam Plusnet wrote:

>> I think they use any change on the line to indicate removal from the
>> list, they aren't going to admit that though. It's not an "expiry" but
>> a "consequence".
>
> We've been on TPS for decades.
> In that time we've changed ISPs several times & shifted our phone from
> BT to another company.
> We're still listed on TPS.

Meh, one line I had with no changes fell off the listing without
notification.

> Think about it. If BT or another operator did list a number as
> "inactive", then it is reasonable for the TPS to assume the number
> could be re-issued to a new subscriber who might not _want_ to be
> listed on TPS.

This is true but remember who funds the TPS, the Direct Marketing
Association, not Ofcom or HMG. It's not really in their interests to have
people on the list. "Mistakes" will happen.

I find it odd that this recent article doesn't mention the TPS, which
sort of makes the "82% reported receiving a nuisance call" meaningless.
Were any of the 843 sample on the TPS?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22566797

--
Cheers
Dave.

[Dave Liquorice]

On Thu, 16 May 2013 20:16:03 +0100, Jake wrote:

> I often see older people pulling out slips of paper with their PIN
> written clearly and then asking someone what the number is as they
> cannot see well enough to read it.

Not seen that for a while but did frequently when chip 'n pin first came
in.

> For that matter, I often see younger people referring to codes stored
> on their mobile phone and even reading them out loud as they type them
> in!

And I bet they are stored on the phone in an unencrypted form and in a
"notes" app. I have my pins in my phone but a) it's not a smartphone,
there is no access to file system (if it has one!) b) it has a "code
store" feature. You need to feed it a PIN(*) it then gives you a back a
password which you acknowledge, then the code(s). The password is
verification that you've given it the right PIN otherwise the codes it
returns are garbage.

(*) Might be a bit of a catch 22 there...

--
Cheers
Dave.

[Tom Gardner]

Martin wrote:
> On Thu, 16 May 2013 09:06:08 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
> <allsortsn...@howhill.com> wrote:
>> Appears some people get several per evening, I'd say we don't get any but
>> that is quite true, we get maybe one/two a month. The most frequent is
>> banking "wanting to discuss your account" FOAD! Not going to do that over
>> the phone, write to me if it's that important. I think these are actually
>> genuine calls not scam ones...
>
> Which bank makes genuine calls wanting to discuss accounts, except in
> the case when they suspect a credit/debit card is being used
> fraudulently ?

Remarkably, such legitimate callers are flummoxed when I
ask them to authenticate themselves.

[Tom Gardner]

Janet wrote:
> In article <avmogg...@mid.individual.net>,
> vi...@dinky.vm.bytemark.co.uk says...
>>
>> Janet <h...@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> I don't write my PIN numbers down and always forget them. Fortunately
>>>> on of my carers remembers them. It I ever want to get rid of her I
>>>> will have to kill her!
>>>
>>> I use a mnemonic. All I have to do is remember the mnemonic...
>>
>> When I first got a PIN back in, - ooh, 1987 .. ? - the advice was to
>> write down the letters like on an old phone (or old mobile for text
>> messaging!), then have a 4 letter word that corresponded to the numbers.
>> A word, in theory, being easier to remember than the numbers. Then as
>> long as you don't write the word down (or not obviously at least), you
>> can happily keep the 'decode' sheet with your card.
>
> Far better to make a list of songs whose words or titles contain
> numbers, choose as many as you need and alter your PIN accordingly.
> 76 trombones in the Hit Parade
> 3 coins in the Fountain
> O solo mio (hah, cunning)
>
> gives you a PIN you can securely hum to yourself in the checkout
> queue.

My technique is to write a number on the card in big friendly
1cm high numerals. It isn't the PIN, but it is a number from
which I can generate the pin in my head.
Suppose the PIN is 1234.
I remember a magic number 2468.
I write 9276 on the card, since 9276+2468=>1234 when the
overflows are discarded.