OT: Balls over the fence
Clive Perry
will get an answer from the knowledgeable and experienced folks that contribute
here.
My 7 year old Son has just become strong enough to propel his football or tennis
ball over into our neighbours gardens by mistake of course. This does not happen
very much I might add and we do send our Son round to ask nicely for his ball
back and apologise for the disturbance.
One neighbour is absolutely fine about this and readily sends the balls back.
The other neighbour, who we have had a dispute with over 4 ft trellis on top of
6ft fence, retains the balls and will not even answer her front door to us.
Needless to say good neighbour has had two children that are now grown up and
understands. The odd thing is that bad neighbour is a primary school teacher (no
children of her own) of all things - God help the kids she teaches but that is
getting right OT.
My question is does she have the right to retain our property and if not what
can we do about it as she will not answer the door to us? Is this a case for a
solicitors letter or is there a draft letter available that I could use that
contains the correct legal jargon to make her respond?
Thanks for any advice
Clive
Alan Terry
<per...@orvis.co.uk> writes
>My 7 year old Son has just become strong enough to propel his football or tennis
>One neighbour
>who we have had a dispute with over 4 ft trellis on top of
>6ft fence, retains the balls
I want your son in my javelin squad!
--
Alan ............
Alan Terry
<al...@successful.demon.co.uk> writes
On second thoughts we could solve two problems in one go hear.
Forget balls and buy him a Shot Putt - it will some time before he will
be able to clear the fence with it and I'll get an all-round thrower!
--
Alan ............
Emrys Davies
Technically, if the ball is dishonestly kept with the intention that it
shall never be returned to you that is Theft.
What is theft?
The basic legal definition of theft is 'the dishonest appropriation of
property belonging to another with the intention of permanently
depriving that person of it'. Put simply this means, taking someone else
's property intending that it will not be returned. There needs to be an
element of dishonesty. If someone believes they have a right to take
property or the owner would have consented this could mean that a theft
has not been committed.
But that would be using a sledgehammer to crack a nut and is clearly out
of the question in your case even if all the ingredients of theft are
present. But if your valuable washing was blown into your neighbour's
garden, as happens so often, and permanently kept the Act would be quite
appropriate if all else failed.
If you went to the police you would be advised that yours is a civil
case but I think that you will come to the conclusion that it is not
worth going along that route.
Your neighbour may say that the football is causing damage to her plants
and is a general nuisance which it might well be to her. You didn't say
who erected the trellis. So where would all this get you except to
cause more anxiety and bitterness.
I say leave well alone and advise your son to try and be more careful
and if the odd ball should stray put it down to experience and buy cheap
balls to compensate for their loss.
Soon he will be able to play in the park and have a real game and the
memory of that lady who kept his football will soon fade and his lasting
thoughts of it all will be the strength of character shown by his dad,
hopefully.
Regards,
Emrys Davies.
"Clive Perry" <per...@orvis.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ajdfrj$2et$1...@venus.btinternet.com...
Clive Perry
"Alan Terry" <al...@successful.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4Tq+EKAq...@successful.demon.co.uk...
> In article <eyKnMWAo...@successful.demon.co.uk>, Alan Terry
> <al...@successful.demon.co.uk> writes
> >I want your son in my javelin squad!
>
> On second thoughts we could solve two problems in one go hear.
>
> Forget balls and buy him a Shot Putt - it will some time before he will
> be able to clear the fence with it and I'll get an all-round thrower!
>
> --
> Alan ............
Alan,
Javelin and Shot Putt?? He would be your friend for life if I told him that :^)
Incidentally, he only clears 6ft of fence, the 4ft trellis complete with the
brown membrane covering it was removed following a visit from the planning
enforcement officer.
Clive
Jane Ransom
>can we do about it as she will not answer the door to us? Is this a case for a
>solicitors letter or is there a draft letter available that I could use that
>contains the correct legal jargon to make her respond?
If I were you, I would try to teach my child not to kick his ball over
into the next door neighbour's garden!!!!!!!!!
--
Jane Ransom in Lancaster.
I won't respond to private emails that are on topic for urg
but if you need to email me for any other reason,
put jandg dot demon dot co dot uk where you see deadspam.com
Brian Watson
" Emrys Davies" <emrys...@LineOne.net> wrote in message
news:ajdko6$19ovkn$1...@ID-108842.news.dfncis.de...
> 'Clive',
>
> Technically, if the ball is dishonestly kept with the intention that it
> shall never be returned to you that is Theft.
>
> What is theft?
> The basic legal definition of theft is 'the dishonest appropriation of
> property belonging to another with the intention of permanently
> depriving that person of it'. Put simply this means, taking someone else
> 's property intending that it will not be returned. There needs to be an
> element of dishonesty. If someone believes they have a right to take
> property or the owner would have consented this could mean that a theft
> has not been committed.
If the ball is left where it lies by your neighbour he hasn't taken it and
it is not theft.
However, nor may you recover it.
Best plan here is to get a compromise that inconveniences your neighbour and
yourself equally!
:-)
Maybe if you offer to raise the boundary hedge/fence/whatever with a high
open trellis with nice looking climbers growing up it, he would allow you to
get the ball back on the (fewer) occasions when it goes over?
--
Brian
"When all about you is crumbling, when the arse is falling out of your
world, you need to focus on something positive in your life. Something you
can control, improve even."
The Q
discovered in a book on law in the home that the moment you touch the
ball, in your garden then you must return it, otherwise it's theft.
However, if you leave the ball where it is in the garden you can
refuse to allow in the sender of the ball into your garden for as long
as you like (because that would be trespass) and leave the ball where
it is.
We did this many times and when the sender turned up with parent
eventually, we would explain that they had kicked it into the garden
from a marked no ball games area and return the ball. This reduced the
amount of balls coming in a lot. A few never came for the ball when
it happened again, and a few got flat balls back, our border had a
good bite and loved playing football!!
The Q
Joe Parkin
> In article <ajdfrj$2et$1...@venus.btinternet.com>, Clive Perry
> <per...@orvis.co.uk> writes
>>
>> My question is does she have the right to retain our property and if
>> not what can we do about it as she will not answer the door to us?
>> Is this a case for a solicitors letter or is there a draft letter
>> available that I could use that contains the correct legal jargon to
>> make her respond?
>
> If I were you, I would try to teach my child not to kick his ball over
> into the next door neighbour's garden!!!!!!!!!
or perhaps
tie elastic to the ball?
pin lightweight netting way above the fence.
Teach him how to kick the ball even harder (so it travels to the nice
neighbour 1 further down)
--
--
regards
Joe
david
By following the simple advice I read in an article, I have finally found
inner peace.
It said: "The way to achieve inner peace is to finish all the things you
have
started."
So, today I have finished one bottle of vodka, a bottle of red wine, a
bottle
of Jack Daniel's, all of my Prozac and a big box of chocolates.
Damn if I don't feel better already!
Pass this on to all those in need of Inner Peace...
--
David Hill
Abacus Nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk
PaulK
"Sacha" <sa...@nospamgarden506.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:0m5lluk33rrcv2vdb...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 14 Aug 2002 13:38:17 +0100, Jane Ransom <ran...@deadspam.com>
> wrote:
> Accidents happen and nice neighbours would recognise that. It's not as
> if he's doing it on purpose and the sour-faced 'won't give me my ball
> back' sounds like an ice cube up the bum type person to me.
I hadn't realised till now just what a visual medium this is!
pk
Janet Baraclough
from "Clive Perry" <per...@orvis.co.uk> contains these words:
I think her silence is the response, and she's made her POV very
clear. She's using a technique familiar to many teachers who deal with
energetic little boys who repeatedly do something silly and a bit
annoying; minimising confrontation, while making it clear that any
continuation of the behaviour will deprive the perpetrator of something
he wants.
Levels of perceived nuisance are very individual. People who don't
garden much might not mind at all, while someone with a cold frame and a
collection of easily broken penstemons, who spends time lying quietly
in her garden reading, might feel differently about a football either
thudding against the fence, or landing in her garden. A teacher who
deals with other peoples' children all day long, may want nothing to do
with them when she's at home.
My children learnt, that if they accidentally or deliberately whacked
golfballs out of the garden onto the moor, they would probably never
find them again. After they had asked in vain for replacement balls,
argued about whose fault it was the balls went over, and replaced their
lost balls out of pocketmoney, they adjusted play accordingly. That
kind of learning about consequences and responsibility is a good lesson
for children. Kids can't, and should not, be entirely sheltered from all
life's normal little childhood troubles by their parents.
Janet.
Sue
"Jane Ransom" <ran...@deadspam.com> wrote
> Clive Perry <per...@orvis.co.uk> writes
> >My question is does she have the right to retain our property and if not
> >what can we do about it as she will not answer the door to us? Is this a
> >case for a solicitors letter or is there a draft letter available that I
> >could use that contains the correct legal jargon to make her respond?
>
> If I were you, I would try to teach my child not to kick his ball over
> into the next door neighbour's garden!!!!!!!!!
I agree with Jane. Having had similar problems with over-enthusiastic
junior Beckham fans (they switched alliegance to Ronaldo, during the World
Cup!) I'm afraid my sympathies are with the neighbour. If she has to endure
other people's little darlings all week I think she's due a bit of peace in
her own garden after school and at weekends. Clive, have you considered
that some damage may have been done to prize plants for instance? In any
event, she has every right not to have her garden bombarded with footballs.
If it hardly ever goes over as was implied then IMO solicitors letters are
rather OTT and will only sour relationships further.
I'd regard it as an ideal opportunity to teach the youngster concerned that
actions have consequences, that you have to consider how what you do
might affect other people, and that if he loses the ball over there again
he'll jolly well have to wait to get another.
Sue
Jane Ransom
<emrys...@LineOne.net> writes
>Your neighbour may say that the football is causing damage to her plants
May also say it is an unsolicited gift which she has kept and disposed
of as she wanted.
Janet Baraclough
from Sacha <sa...@nospamgarden506.fsnet.co.uk> contains these words:
> On Wed, 14 Aug 2002 19:19:33 +0100, Rob <nos...@for.me> wrote:
> <snip>
> >I wonder how my neighbour would react though if I were to toss my
> >balls over her fence?
> Do you know what make of secateurs she has - her reaction could be
> rather sharp.
A sharp pin is all she would need...just a very small prick, as they say.
Janet.
Essjay001
--
"Art is not art if it's art because it was done by an artist."
gwo...@albany.net <gwo...@albany.net> scribbled:
> Rob <nos...@for.me> wrote:
>
>> Nothing wrong with that - a good birching made a man out of me.
>
> This is the point at which someone in my crowd would be sure to break
> into the "Lumberjack Song."
>
> It's still too darn hot over here... high of 87F, and I haven't enough
> brain cells working to convert to Celsius.
>
>
> Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at www.albany.net/~gwoods
> Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1200' elevation. NY WO G
Essjay001
She
> was seriously strange and in the end some other neighbours had to take
> out an injunction to stop her stuffing rolled up newpaper down the
> cess pit........
The mind boggles. I wonder why she would do that!
Stephen
oldmolly
"Sacha" <sa...@nospamgarden506.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message > Accidents
happen and nice neighbours would recognise that. It's not as
> if he's doing it on purpose and the sour-faced 'won't give me my ball
> back' sounds like an ice cube up the bum type person to me.
> they're a bit weird. One opposite-type neighbour I had wouldn't allow
> her next door neighbour to put wires up on that side of the wall
> claiming it was her wall and nobody else was allowed to use it! She
> was seriously strange and in the end some other neighbours had to take
> out an injunction to stop her stuffing rolled up newpaper down the
> cess pit........
> the balls being thrown back with such venom that it will be more
> expensive to repair the windows after each 'accident' than to buy a
> new ball or even make a sort of fruit cage in the garden for ball
> practice.......
Personally I think it all depends. How often is 'rarely' for exapmle. If I
had a football coming into my garden several times a week, damaging plants
etc I would get more than a little miffed. On the odd occasion my neighbours
kicked the ball over I have not noticed until they asked for it (I have an
acre), but by then the dogs *had* noticed and it was beyond repair. It is
amazing how their footballing skills improved after about 3 dog mauled and
very flat balls were handed back.
---
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Steve Harris
(Clive Perry) wrote:
> 6ft of fence, the 4ft trellis complete with the
> brown membrane covering it was removed following a visit from the
> planning enforcement officer.
"Dear URG, I have the neighbours from Hell! They put a 4' trellis on top
of my 6' wall and I had to get the Planning to come out and make them
take it down. Their brat keeps kicking his football over and then
hammering on my door while I'm on my kidney machine.
What can I do?
Clive's neighbour"
Steve
dee.adams
Leylandi maybe !!!!!!!!
I hate the things but if your neighbour is this nasty and petty and you cant
have 4ft of trellis on top of your fence
Theres more than one way to skin a cat !!!!!!!
"Clive Perry" <or...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:ajdq16$bt1$1...@knossos.btinternet.com...
John Towill
"dee.adams" <dee....@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ajp344$sj2$1...@paris.btinternet.com...
> Sounds like you need to plant a high hedge !!!!!!!!!!
> Leylandi maybe !!!!!!!!
> I hate the things but if your neighbour is this nasty and petty and you
cant
> have 4ft of trellis on top of your fence
> Theres more than one way to skin a cat !!!!!!!
So this is how neighbour wars escellate, perhaps we will be reading about
you in the Daily Mail!
Will you be going to visit him inside? :-)
John T
dee.adams
but if a neighbour has complained to Planning about a trellis on top of a
fence which would otherwise have prevented balls getting into their garden
then the only legal recourse allowed is to plant a high hedge
I agree that children should learn not to send balls flying but since
gardens are getting smaller and smaller and given the murder of 2 dear
little girls society has major problems it must face over kids safety
"John Towill" <jto...@iclway.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ajqmin$1d8i2i$1...@ID-70788.news.dfncis.de...
Alan Holmes
"Steve Harris" <ro...@netservs.com> wrote in message
news:memo.20020817...@net-services.default...
I know it's a bit late, but why not just ignore the brat when you are in an
inconvenient position, or just ignore him altogther, make him wait a few
weeks to get his ball back, when he asks for it back, tell him it's not
very convenient at the moment, come back later, he may then get the
message that it would be wiser not to kick the ball over the fence!
Alan
--
Reply to alan(at)windsor-berks(dot)freeserve(dot)uk
>
> Steve
kate harrison
of Jack Daniel's, all of my Prozac and a big box of chocolates.
LMAOOOOOOOOOOO David...
Chris J Dixon
>On Wednesday, August 14, 2002 at 12:44:52 PM UTC+1, Clive Perry wrote:
>> This may be OT so I apologise upfront although I am hopeful that my question
>> will get an answer from the knowledgeable and experienced folks that contribute
>> here.
>>
>> My 7 year old Son has just become strong enough to propel his football or tennis
>> ball over into our neighbours gardens by mistake of course. This does not happen
>> very much I might add and we do send our Son round to ask nicely for his ball
>> back and apologise for the disturbance.
>bottle
>of Jack Daniel's, all of my Prozac and a big box of chocolates.
>Damn if I don't feel better already!</quote>
>
>LMAOOOOOOOOOOO David...
situation has resolved itself. ;-)
Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
ch...@cdixon.me.uk
Plant amazing Acers.