Stacking turf for rotting
Chris Holmes
I have removed some turf in order to get more vegetable plot. Each lump
of turf is about a foot square and two inches thick. I seem to recall
hearing that they should be stacked upside down if you want them to rot
- then someone said he had heard that they should be stacked alternately
- so that the grass sides are together. At the moment they make a heap
roughly four foot square by two foot high (and are upside down).
--
Chris
NeilTonks
Well, as you say, it's often claimed that doing it 'grass to grass' is the best
way. Personally, though, I can't see that it will make a great deal of
difference whether you do it like that or just put it all upside down. I
removed a lawn some years back and stacked it upside-down like you, and it all
rotted down perfectly well. If I were you, I'd leave it. Re-stacking it would
be a LOT of effort and it will be fine as it is. Incidentally, you need to
leave it in the stack for at least a year.
Neil Tonks
(Peak District website: http://members.aol.com/pdwalks)
Andy Mabbett
<ch...@laughing.demon.co.uk> writes
>What is the best way to stack turf for rotting down?
> I seem to recall
>hearing that they should be stacked upside down if you want them to rot
>- then someone said he had heard that they should be stacked alternately
>- so that the grass sides are together.
I've read both, but the former has worked for me.
> At the moment they make a heap
>roughly four foot square by two foot high (and are upside down).
You may want to re-stack them to a slightly smaller, taller pile,
perhaps a "pyramid" for stability.
Also, if they're not somewhere where it will be unsightly, cover with
black polythene or old carpet, to prevent weed growth. In a year or so,
you can sieve the results ("loam"), using it in potting mixes, as a lawn
top dressing or soil improver. Anything which is too large to go trough
the sieve can be added to the compost heap.
--
Andy Mabbett
"In derelict sidings, the poppies entwine
With cattle trucks, lying in wait, for the next time"
Roger Waters, 1982
nico...@cwcom.net
some enterprising(and fit) soul must have barrowed it away in the night - is
nothing safe?!
Kate
NeilTonks wrote:
> Chris Holmes <ch...@laughing.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >What is the best way to stack turf for rotting down?
> >
> >I have removed some turf in order to get more vegetable plot. Each lump
> >of turf is about a foot square and two inches thick. I seem to recall
> >hearing that they should be stacked upside down if you want them to rot
> >- then someone said he had heard that they should be stacked alternately
> >- so that the grass sides are together. At the moment they make a heap
> >roughly four foot square by two foot high (and are upside down).
>
NeilTonks
>As long as the heap stays in place for a year - mine was a lovely 11 month
>old and
>some enterprising(and fit) soul must have barrowed it away in the night - is
>nothing safe?!
>Kate
Well, I knew good loam was in short supply but that's ridiculous! Makes you
wonder how anyone came to be THAT desparate for a bit of soil!
Alan Gould
<neil...@aol.com> writes
extent that it seemed to have disappeared. Our compost heaps finish up
at somewhere between 15-20% of their original built height by the time
they are fully mature.
--
Alan & Joan Gould, North Lincs.
<al...@agolincs.demon.co.uk>
Kay Easton
<an...@pigsonthewing.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>>hearing that they should be stacked upside down if you want them to rot
>>- then someone said he had heard that they should be stacked alternately
>>- so that the grass sides are together.
>
The logic of stacking face to face may be to provide a greater volume of
grass to hasten rotting.
the important thing is to make sure the *top* one is face downwards
(even if it's its 'turn' to face up) - you don't want a lawn on top of
the heap.
>
>> At the moment they make a heap
>>roughly four foot square by two foot high (and are upside down).
>
>You may want to re-stack them to a slightly smaller, taller pile,
>perhaps a "pyramid" for stability.
ie aim to maximise volume and minimise surface area - the heap will lose
hat through the surface. Probably doesn't matter since it isn't actually
a compost heap, and the amount of soil means you won't get much
composting happening. but the taller the heap, the less grass will be
able to break through to the surface.
otoh, our latest heap is forming a boundary wall for a new bed and is
one turf hick, 18in high and 12 ft long!
So, don't bother shifting your unless you really feel the urge.
--
Kay Easton
Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/garden/
Kay Easton
<al...@agolincs.demon.co.uk> writes
>I'm just wondering whether the turf had composted down to such an
>extent that it seemed to have disappeared. Our compost heaps finish up
>at somewhere between 15-20% of their original built height by the time
>they are fully mature.
Turf has such a high proportion of soil that it doesn't compact very
far. We use it as a building material when constructing new bed, changes
of level and so on.
I agree with you with compost heaps - one day you finish, with the heap
bulging over the top of its container, even though you've pressed it
down as hard as it will go .... next week, it's two foot down from the
top and crying out for more food!
Kay Easton
>As long as the heap stays in place for a year - mine was a lovely 11 month old
>and
>some enterprising(and fit) soul must have barrowed it away in the night - is
>nothing safe?!
And I thought I'd reached the limit with a stolen water butt!
Andy Mabbett
<k...@scarboro.demon.co.uk> writes
>>You may want to re-stack them to a slightly smaller, taller pile,
>>perhaps a "pyramid" for stability.
>
>ie aim to maximise volume and minimise surface area
No; to save space and so that rain water will run off, washing away the
minimum of loam.
Chris Holmes
>Turf has such a high proportion of soil that it doesn't compact very
>far. We use it as a building material when constructing new bed, changes
>of level and so on.
Aha! Now that *is* interesting. I was just starting to speculate about
the artistic possibilities of the sods (not, of course, meaning to be
rude about them in using such appellation!)
I had thought of converting them from a bug to a feature by stacking
them right way up in a rounded hump, which could then be clipped like
topiary. Then I thought of taking a wodge out of the top, filling the
hole with potting compost and growing something in it.
Anyway ... I like your idea of making deep beds with them (upside down?)
... and I wonder if there will now be a fountain of creative suggestions
along the lines of 101 uses for a dead cat! Hey - it would be fun! How
many uses are there for sods? Could we come up with sod's law?
--
Chris Holmes
May you live all the days of your life. -Jonathan Swift
Nick Maclaren
Andy Mabbett <an...@pigsonthewing.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <CdyVEIAw...@scarboro.demon.co.uk>, Kay Easton
><k...@scarboro.demon.co.uk> writes
>>>You may want to re-stack them to a slightly smaller, taller pile,
>>>perhaps a "pyramid" for stability.
>>
>>ie aim to maximise volume and minimise surface area
>
>No; to save space and so that rain water will run off, washing away the
>minimum of loam.
I find that it is best to make compost heaps concave, because the
usual problem is that they dry out! However, last year and this
would have been better convex.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren,
University of Cambridge Computing Service,
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG, England.
Email: nm...@cam.ac.uk
Tel.: +44 1223 334761 Fax: +44 1223 334679
Andy Mabbett
<ch...@laughing.demon.co.uk> writes
>I had thought of converting them from a bug to a feature by stacking
>them right way up in a rounded hump, which could then be clipped like
>topiary.
A recent (within the last 18 months) issue of the garden had a feature
on this, with many different "object", including living planters.
I don't usually get to see this publication, but someone gave me a
second- hand copy. I'm amazed I resisted subscribing!
Chris Holmes
>Also, if they're not somewhere where it will be unsightly, cover with
>black polythene or old carpet, to prevent weed growth.
Wouldn't that keep air out and thereby reduce rotting?
--
Chris
Chris Holmes
>In article <4AKgoCAi...@laughing.demon.co.uk>, Chris Holmes
><ch...@laughing.demon.co.uk> writes
>>I had thought of converting them from a bug to a feature by stacking
>>them right way up in a rounded hump, which could then be clipped like
>>topiary.
>
>A recent (within the last 18 months) issue of the garden had a feature
>on this, with many different "object", including living planters.
>
Do you remember any particularly appealing ideas?
I was thinking of a circular base so that successive layers could
interlock nicely. The middle could then be filled with fairly random
scraps.
--
Chris
Chris Holmes
> aim to maximise volume and minimise surface area
Right then - back to differential calculus!
A square base heap whose height is half the side of the base?
Or a hemisphere?
>otoh, our latest heap is forming a boundary wall for a new bed and is
>one turf hick, 18in high and 12 ft long!
Hmmm ... I wish I'd cut the slithy turves one foot by two foot so that
they would stack better like bricks. Reckon *I* must be a turf hick!
--
Chris
Ian Wilkins
> Hmmm ... I wish I'd cut the slithy turves one foot by two foot so that
> they would stack better like bricks. Reckon *I* must be a turf hick!
Quite by chance my inherent geometric sense made me cut the turves one
spade width by two spade widths. And yes they did stack quite well. : )
Shame they seemed to "naturally" want to be about 4-6 inches thick.
Adios Amigos!
Ian.
--
This post does not reflect the opinions of Whitakers.
Ian Wilkins
>
> In article <4AKgoCAi...@laughing.demon.co.uk>, Chris Holmes
> <ch...@laughing.demon.co.uk> writes
> >I had thought of converting them from a bug to a feature by stacking
> >them right way up in a rounded hump, which could then be clipped like
> >topiary.
We use them to change the level of beds by burying them. I.e. It was
lawn, I took 4" or so off with the turf, so I dig a nice big pit, and
bury them a couple of turves deep, depending on how energetic I was when
I dug the hole. Back fill so there will be 6-9" inches on top of the
highest turf, and spread the rest of the soil round the bed, thus
raising the level.
Hard work, but I have to put the turves somewhere, and I need to raise
the level of the beds, so they're not lower than the "lawn".
> A recent (within the last 18 months) issue of the garden had a feature
> on this, with many different "object", including living planters.
>
> I don't usually get to see this publication, but someone gave me a
> second- hand copy. I'm amazed I resisted subscribing!
You must be fit and healthy. All the doctors round here seem to have
quite a few, some even published in the last year or so, some a *little*
older ; ).
Kay Easton
>In article <CdyVEIAw...@scarboro.demon.co.uk>, Kay Easton
><k...@scarboro.demon.co.uk> writes
>>>You may want to re-stack them to a slightly smaller, taller pile,
>>>perhaps a "pyramid" for stability.
>>
>>ie aim to maximise volume and minimise surface area
>
>No; to save space and so that rain water will run off, washing away the
>minimum of loam.
Is that really a problem? I'd have thought the grass roots held it
pretty firmly. If not, then the turves are too thick.
Kay Easton
>Anyway ... I like your idea of making deep beds with them (upside down?)
Yes
>... and I wonder if there will now be a fountain of creative suggestions
>along the lines of 101 uses for a dead cat! Hey - it would be fun! How
>many uses are there for sods? Could we come up with sod's law?
Well, in some particularly barren areas, houses are thatched with them
.. and that Anderson shelter which was looking for a purpose a couple of
weeks back could be turfed with them
Jane Ransom
<ia...@teleord.co.uk> writes
>Chris Holmes wrote:
>> Hmmm ... I wish I'd cut the slithy turves one foot by two foot so that
>> they would stack better like bricks. Reckon *I* must be a turf hick!
>
>Quite by chance my inherent geometric sense made me cut the turves one
>spade width by two spade widths. And yes they did stack quite well. : )
>Shame they seemed to "naturally" want to be about 4-6 inches thick.
>
One lot one way and tother lot tother way - like a 3
dimensional brick wall.
That way the heap holds together better.
--
Jane Ransom in Lancaster.
Kay Easton
<ran...@mearsgyl.demon.co.uk> writes
>You should stack them like hay bales.
>One lot one way and tother lot tother way - like a 3
>dimensional brick wall.
>That way the heap holds together better.
Thanks, Jane!
Next time I'm stacking turves, I'll remember my extensive experience in
stacking hay bales ;-)
Jane Ransom
<k...@scarboro.demon.co.uk> writes
>In article <dkuOFcAk...@mearsgyl.demon.co.uk>, Jane Ransom
><ran...@mearsgyl.demon.co.uk> writes
>>You should stack them like hay bales.
>>One lot one way and tother lot tother way - like a 3
>>dimensional brick wall.
>>That way the heap holds together better.
>
>Thanks, Jane!
>Next time I'm stacking turves, I'll remember my extensive experience in
>stacking hay bales ;-)
Good heavens, Kay!
I never knew you had ever stacked hay bales !!!!!!!! :)
Chris Boulby
>
>>Turf has such a high proportion of soil that it doesn't compact very
>>far. We use it as a building material when constructing new bed, changes
>>of level and so on.
>
>Aha! Now that *is* interesting. I was just starting to speculate about
>the artistic possibilities of the sods (not, of course, meaning to be
>rude about them in using such appellation!)
>
>them right way up in a rounded hump, which could then be clipped like
>hole with potting compost and growing something in it.
Wasn't it good ol' Flowerdew who suggested growing veggies in the tops
of them?
Chris Boulby National Collection of Diascias
Acklington, Northumberland
cormaic
<k...@scarboro.demon.co.uk> enriched all our lives with these words:
>Well, in some particularly barren areas, houses are thatched with them
>.. and that Anderson shelter which was looking for a purpose a couple of
>weeks back could be turfed with them
Talking of barren areas, my BIL, also a pavior by trade, was
constructing a new footpath across an grassed area in the middle of a
council housing estate in Runcorn, a quaint fishing village nestling
on the banks of the Mersey. First job was to mark out the path and cut
off the turf, which was to be stacked and used elsewhere on the estate
for tarting-up purposes.
A gang of local waif and strays, all under 10yo, very kindly
decided to take the day off school and help Sean in his work. Now Sean
isn't the most patient of men, and it wasn't long before he'd loosed a
few anglo-saxon expletives and chased the kids off.
Then some old boyo comes out of the house next to where the
work is happening, plops his considerable belly over the low gate
tastefully made from Tate and Lyle pallets, and proceeds to give Sean
the benefit of his years of accumulated wisdom. Before long, tea is
being served, weak and insipid, but lots of sugar and sterilised milk
- just as Sean hates it. :~0
The old guy and Sean form a pact to keep the pesky kids away
from the area, and he spends the rest of the day threatening and
shaking fists at the cheeky sods, while Sean cuts and stacks the
turves.
5pm and knocking off time. Sean heads off home, the old feller
goes in for his tea, and settles down for an evening in front of the
TV. Next morning, 7:30am, Sean rolls up in his van, and shock! The
turf has gone. Not a single turf to be seen where they had been
stacked the night before. Sean looked around for clues as to its
whereabouts, and there it was - on top of the old boy's roof!
During the night, the kids had 'acquired' a ladder, and had
carried all the turf up onto this poor old sod's bungalow roof, and
actually done quite a neat job of it! :~)
--
cormaic Garden - www.tmac.clara.co.uk/cormaic/garden/garden.htm
Culcheth Paving - www.tmac.clara.co.uk/paving2.htm
Cheshire URG web-ring - www.tmac.clara.co.uk/urgring/urgring1.htm
(allegedly) Last Updated on June 3rd 1999
cormaic CAN BE FOUND AT tmac.clara.co.uk
Susan Mowat
layer grass side upwards. I also used turf to make the walls of a compost
heap and they lasted about 10 years. They get "nibbled" away a bit each time
you empty the heap, so eventually start to collapse.
Sue
nico...@cwcom.net
can't wait till it's light to check.
Kate
Alan Gould
DAYTHANKStmac.clara.net> writes
> Talking of barren areas, my BIL, also a pavior by trade,
I like it, I like it!
Just right for a rainy day's entertainment,
especially the 'cheeky sods'. :-))
--
Alan Gould: <al...@agolincs.demon.co.uk>
Kay Easton
<ran...@mearsgyl.demon.co.uk> writes
>>Next time I'm stacking turves, I'll remember my extensive experience in
>>stacking hay bales ;-)
>
>Good heavens, Kay!
>I never knew you had ever stacked hay bales !!!!!!!! :)
That's not the only thing you don't know about me ;-)
Chris Holmes
I love the seat idea! Are they *all* stacked grass side upwards or
solely the top one?
--
Chris
Susan Mowat
Chris Holmes wrote in message ...
You stack them normally but just make sure the top layer is grass upwards.
It's even nicer if there are daisies in it. The seat lasts longer if you can
put it against a wall or a fence. In Medieval paintings some of them have a
kind of rough whicker-work around them.
Sue
Chris Holmes
>You stack them normally but just make sure the top layer is grass upwards.
>It's even nicer if there are daisies in it. The seat lasts longer if you can
>put it against a wall or a fence. In Medieval paintings some of them have a
>kind of rough whicker-work around them.
Right then ... that's my next project!
Today I made a hump, which will serve as a raised bed for flowers.
Each turf was trimmed down into a trapezium shape to allow for stacking
in a circle. You can see a picture of the result at:
http://www.laughing.demon.co.uk/turf
Best wishes
Chris
Chris French and Helen Johnson
<suem...@globalnet.co.uk> writes
>
>Chris Holmes wrote in message ...
>>solely the top one?
>
>
err, surely this thread started on what was the best way to stack them
normally :-)
--
Chris French and Helen Johnson, Leeds
urg Suppliers and References FAQ:
http://www.spennithorne.demon.co.uk/garden/urg/urgrefs.html
Susan Mowat
Chris French and Helen Johnson wrote in message ...
>In article <7jmdpa$bu6$3...@gxsn.com>, Susan Mowat
><suem...@globalnet.co.uk> writes
>>
>>Chris Holmes wrote in message ...
>>>I love the seat idea! Are they *all* stacked grass side upwards or
>>>solely the top one?
>>
>>You stack them normally
>>
>err, surely this thread started on what was the best way to stack them
>normally :-)
>--
>Chris French and Helen Johnson, Leeds
You're absolutely right, but someone *did* give the answer early on.
However, for anyone who missed it or has forgotten, the turves are stacked
grass to grass/soil to soil in alternate layers.
Sue
Andy Mabbett
<k...@scarboro.demon.co.uk> writes
>>No; to save space and so that rain water will run off, washing away the
>>minimum of loam.
>
>Is that really a problem?
Not if you stack it properly, as I suggested ;-)
> I'd have thought the grass roots held it
>pretty firmly.
If it breaks down properly, there won't be any roots left...
Andy Mabbett
<ch...@laughing.demon.co.uk> writes
>>Also, if they're not somewhere where it will be unsightly, cover with
>>black polythene or old carpet, to prevent weed growth.
>
>Wouldn't that keep air out and thereby reduce rotting?
I use the former and it's not a problem, but I do cover the turves
loosely, so it's not airtight. Carpet should "breathe".
Andy Mabbett
<ch...@laughing.demon.co.uk> writes
>>A recent (within the last 18 months) issue of the garden had a feature
>>on this, with many different "object", including living planters.
>>
There were planters wire boxes, lined with outwards- acing turves, seats
and "architectural features like spirals and mounds. Surely someone here
keeps back issues and could give a more specific reference?
Andy Mabbett
<k...@scarboro.demon.co.uk> writes
>Well, in some particularly barren areas, houses are thatched with them
Some traditional houses (wooden) in Romania are built into a hillside,
with a roof of living grass. Examples can be seen at the splendid
"Village Museum" in Bucharest (think Avoncroft, with 250+ buildings).
Jane Ransom
<an...@pigsonthewing.demon.co.uk> writes
>In article <horvWKAh...@scarboro.demon.co.uk>, Kay Easton
><k...@scarboro.demon.co.uk> writes
>>Well, in some particularly barren areas, houses are thatched with them
>
>Some traditional houses (wooden) in Romania are built into a hillside,
>with a roof of living grass. Examples can be seen at the splendid
>"Village Museum" in Bucharest (think Avoncroft, with 250+ buildings).
There is also a hotel in Achiltibuie (Scotland) which has one of these
rooves (or is it roofs?).
John Neale Baraclough
from Jane Ransom <ran...@mearsgyl.demon.co.uk> contains these words:
I think there are quite a number of modern "ecohouses" with such
roofs, in Wales and Scotland.Its a scandinavian insulation idea isnt
it? Jeremy?
Janet
Chris Holmes
>There were planters wire boxes, lined with outwards- acing turves, seats
>and "architectural features like spirals and mounds. Surely someone here
>keeps back issues and could give a more specific reference?
Thanks Andy
I've been experimenting with a planter - see
http://www.laughing.demon.co.uk/turf
and today I made a couple of seats ... one was made by leaning a 3x2
paving slab against a tree and stacking the turves up to it ... and the
other by stacking against a fence (which I Green Cuprinolled - just to
be on the safe side).
The seats seem quite good, though they are still slightly damp to sit on
at the moment.
Other ideas are still welcome - ready for when there is yet more turf
available as a result of making room for gooseberries.
--
Chris
Chris Holmes
>I've been experimenting with a planter - see
>
>http://www.laughing.demon.co.uk/turf
>
>and today I made a couple of seats ... one was made by leaning a 3x2
>paving slab against a tree and stacking the turves up to it ... and the
>other by stacking against a fence (which I Green Cuprinolled - just to
>be on the safe side).
>
>The seats seem quite good, though they are still slightly damp to sit on
>at the moment.
>
>Other ideas are still welcome - ready for when there is yet more turf
>available as a result of making room for gooseberries.
FEEDBACK: The seats are very comfortable. They were a bit tatty to
start with ... and I found that trimming them with a bread knife was
effective!
--
Chris