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Tar oil replacement
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Nick Maclaren
Jan 11, 2014, 12:30:04 PM1/11/14
to
We got no apples this year, because of catastrophic woolly aphid.
I have lesser but similar problems with a grey aphid on currants.
The problem is that the infestation causes immediate and severe
enclosure by the distorted leaves, so contact insectides will not
work. I also have chestnut scale on one vine.
Now, the traditional solution is a tar oil winter wash, but the UK
has banned that for domestic use. There are some organic replacements,
but they don't look at all effective, and I don't want to harm the
plants by using strong disinfectants (e.g. Armillatox or Jeyes'
Fluid) in the absence of advice.
So what would people recommend?
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Nick Maclaren
Jan 11, 2014, 12:39:31 PM1/11/14
to
In article <larv2s$9i$1...@needham.csi.cam.ac.uk>,
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Nick Maclaren <nm...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>We got no apples this year, because of catastrophic woolly aphid.
Correction. Rosy apple aphid. I should have checked first.
>
>We got no apples this year, because of catastrophic woolly aphid.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Bob Hobden
Jan 11, 2014, 1:23:40 PM1/11/14
to
"Nick Maclaren" wrote
oils, there may be others.
--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK
>
>
>>We got no apples this year, because of catastrophic woolly aphid.
>
>Correction. Rosy apple aphid. I should have checked first.
>
>
I believe Vitax still do a winter wash for fruit trees but based on plant
>
>>We got no apples this year, because of catastrophic woolly aphid.
>
>Correction. Rosy apple aphid. I should have checked first.
>
>
oils, there may be others.
--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK
Nick Maclaren
Jan 11, 2014, 1:26:58 PM1/11/14
to
In article <bjdghb...@mid.individual.net>,
actually suitable for use in cooking! That's the sort of thing
that doesn't sound at all effective to me, and the recommendations
I have seen confirm that :-(
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Bob Hobden <Bo...@invalid.com> wrote:
>>
>>>We got no apples this year, because of catastrophic woolly aphid.
>>
>>Correction. Rosy apple aphid. I should have checked first.
>>
>I believe Vitax still do a winter wash for fruit trees but based on plant
>oils, there may be others.
They do. It's a mixture of sesame oil and fish oils - i.e. it's
>>
>>>We got no apples this year, because of catastrophic woolly aphid.
>>
>>Correction. Rosy apple aphid. I should have checked first.
>>
>I believe Vitax still do a winter wash for fruit trees but based on plant
>oils, there may be others.
actually suitable for use in cooking! That's the sort of thing
that doesn't sound at all effective to me, and the recommendations
I have seen confirm that :-(
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Charlie Pridham
Jan 11, 2014, 5:46:58 PM1/11/14
to
"Nick Maclaren" <n...@needham.csi.cam.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:las2di$q3f$1...@needham.csi.cam.ac.uk...
--
Charlie, Gardening in Cornwall
Holders of National Collections of Clematis viticella
and Lapageria rosea cvs
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Nick Maclaren
Jan 12, 2014, 8:21:54 AM1/12/14
to
In article <bje01k...@mid.individual.net>,
relevant plants in it, and will try to remember to spray with
Savona at bud break. If the combination doesn't work, it will
have to be Jeyes' Fluid and risk it :-(
Incidentally, I found lots of Web references to using both that
and Armillatox as a winter wash, but none that I would call very
reliable or specific. And, as we all know, the Web of a Million
Lies is a gross underestimate!
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Charlie Pridham <cha...@roselandhouse.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>>>>We got no apples this year, because of catastrophic woolly aphid.
>>>>
>>>>Correction. Rosy apple aphid. I should have checked first.
>>>>
>>>I believe Vitax still do a winter wash for fruit trees but based on plant
>>>oils, there may be others.
>>
>> They do. It's a mixture of sesame oil and fish oils - i.e. it's
>> actually suitable for use in cooking! That's the sort of thing
>> that doesn't sound at all effective to me, and the recommendations
>> I have seen confirm that :-(
>
>
>>>>>We got no apples this year, because of catastrophic woolly aphid.
>>>>
>>>>Correction. Rosy apple aphid. I should have checked first.
>>>>
>>>I believe Vitax still do a winter wash for fruit trees but based on plant
>>>oils, there may be others.
>>
>> They do. It's a mixture of sesame oil and fish oils - i.e. it's
>> actually suitable for use in cooking! That's the sort of thing
>> that doesn't sound at all effective to me, and the recommendations
>> I have seen confirm that :-(
>
>Hope not! I am going to try it this year.
The only one I could get was Growing Success, so have soaked the
relevant plants in it, and will try to remember to spray with
Savona at bud break. If the combination doesn't work, it will
have to be Jeyes' Fluid and risk it :-(
Incidentally, I found lots of Web references to using both that
and Armillatox as a winter wash, but none that I would call very
reliable or specific. And, as we all know, the Web of a Million
Lies is a gross underestimate!
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Jeff Layman
Jan 12, 2014, 11:26:46 AM1/12/14
to
(http://www.pesticides.gov.uk/guidance/industries/pesticides/topics/pesticide-approvals/enforcement/products-containing-azadirachtin-also-known-as-neem-oil)
as I've never used it, but I wonder if Neem Oil would have been effective.
Of course, there is nothing to stop you using it for non-pesticidal
purposes...
--
Jeff
Derek
Jan 13, 2014, 4:09:25 AM1/13/14
to
>Incidentally, I found lots of Web references to using both that
>and Armillatox as a winter wash, but none that I would call very
>reliable or specific. And, as we all know, the Web of a Million
>Lies is a gross underestimate!
kills vine weevil eggs.
Martin Brown
Jan 13, 2014, 4:51:37 AM1/13/14
to
On 11/01/2014 17:30, Nick Maclaren wrote:
> We got no apples this year, because of catastrophic woolly aphid.
Crumbs! How did they manage that? Last year was so good for apples that
the trees were in danger of fracturing branches with the sheer weight of
fruit. You can control but not eliminate woolly aphid on apple trees
with a stiff brush dipped in meths (wear eye protection).
It is in the cracks that they lurk and keep open wounds on the tree. But
even on my parents where woolly aphid is completely out of control I
have never known them prevent an established tree from fruiting.
> I have lesser but similar problems with a grey aphid on currants.
> The problem is that the infestation causes immediate and severe
> enclosure by the distorted leaves, so contact insectides will not
> work. I also have chestnut scale on one vine.
unlicensed use tobacco nicotine in it but wear rubber gloves!)
>
> Now, the traditional solution is a tar oil winter wash, but the UK
> has banned that for domestic use. There are some organic replacements,
> but they don't look at all effective, and I don't want to harm the
> plants by using strong disinfectants (e.g. Armillatox or Jeyes'
> Fluid) in the absence of advice.
>
> So what would people recommend?
Tar oil winter wash using the modern Jeyes fluid formulation.
> Now, the traditional solution is a tar oil winter wash, but the UK
> has banned that for domestic use. There are some organic replacements,
> but they don't look at all effective, and I don't want to harm the
> plants by using strong disinfectants (e.g. Armillatox or Jeyes'
> Fluid) in the absence of advice.
>
> So what would people recommend?
(will kill anything green it touches - pretty much is a refined version
of tar oil but lacking some of the more carcinogenic components).
It should be good enough to kill most of the overwintering eggs (but not
all so you have to selectively persecute them with meths on a brush in
spring and encourage the ladybirds). Otherwise pesticide tends to see
off the predators as effectively as it kills some of the prey.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Nick Maclaren
Jan 13, 2014, 6:15:17 AM1/13/14
to
In article <15b7d99gdk16va0lh...@4ax.com>,
Thanks - that is useful. On the stems or as a drench?
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Nick Maclaren
Jan 13, 2014, 6:18:54 AM1/13/14
to
In article <KGOAu.1654$2j5...@fx02.am4>,
and all of the fruit ones were infested, and the former were curled
up beyond hope.
>> I have lesser but similar problems with a grey aphid on currants.
>> The problem is that the infestation causes immediate and severe
>> enclosure by the distorted leaves, so contact insectides will not
>> work. I also have chestnut scale on one vine.
>
>Meths will get that too (maybe if you are feeling dodgy with a trace of
>unlicensed use tobacco nicotine in it but wear rubber gloves!)
Yes, but it won't help with the real problems on the apple and
currents, because the leaf clusters are too tight.
>> Now, the traditional solution is a tar oil winter wash, but the UK
>> has banned that for domestic use. There are some organic replacements,
>> but they don't look at all effective, and I don't want to harm the
>> plants by using strong disinfectants (e.g. Armillatox or Jeyes'
>> Fluid) in the absence of advice.
>>
>> So what would people recommend?
>
>Tar oil winter wash using the modern Jeyes fluid formulation.
>(will kill anything green it touches - pretty much is a refined version
>of tar oil but lacking some of the more carcinogenic components).
Thanks, but how do you use it? I.e. what dilution and on what?
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> We got no apples this year, because of catastrophic woolly aphid.
>
>Crumbs! How did they manage that? Last year was so good for apples that
>the trees were in danger of fracturing branches with the sheer weight of
>fruit. You can control but not eliminate woolly aphid on apple trees
>with a stiff brush dipped in meths (wear eye protection).
>
>It is in the cracks that they lurk and keep open wounds on the tree. But
>even on my parents where woolly aphid is completely out of control I
>have never known them prevent an established tree from fruiting.
Sorry - my error - it is rosy apple aphid. 90% of the leaf clusters
>
>> We got no apples this year, because of catastrophic woolly aphid.
>
>Crumbs! How did they manage that? Last year was so good for apples that
>the trees were in danger of fracturing branches with the sheer weight of
>fruit. You can control but not eliminate woolly aphid on apple trees
>with a stiff brush dipped in meths (wear eye protection).
>
>It is in the cracks that they lurk and keep open wounds on the tree. But
>even on my parents where woolly aphid is completely out of control I
>have never known them prevent an established tree from fruiting.
and all of the fruit ones were infested, and the former were curled
up beyond hope.
>> I have lesser but similar problems with a grey aphid on currants.
>> The problem is that the infestation causes immediate and severe
>> enclosure by the distorted leaves, so contact insectides will not
>> work. I also have chestnut scale on one vine.
>
>Meths will get that too (maybe if you are feeling dodgy with a trace of
>unlicensed use tobacco nicotine in it but wear rubber gloves!)
currents, because the leaf clusters are too tight.
>> Now, the traditional solution is a tar oil winter wash, but the UK
>> has banned that for domestic use. There are some organic replacements,
>> but they don't look at all effective, and I don't want to harm the
>> plants by using strong disinfectants (e.g. Armillatox or Jeyes'
>> Fluid) in the absence of advice.
>>
>> So what would people recommend?
>
>Tar oil winter wash using the modern Jeyes fluid formulation.
>(will kill anything green it touches - pretty much is a refined version
>of tar oil but lacking some of the more carcinogenic components).
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Martin Brown
Jan 13, 2014, 8:42:31 AM1/13/14
to
On 13/01/2014 11:18, Nick Maclaren wrote:
> In article <KGOAu.1654$2j5...@fx02.am4>,
> Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> We got no apples this year, because of catastrophic woolly aphid.
>>
>> Crumbs! How did they manage that? Last year was so good for apples that
>> the trees were in danger of fracturing branches with the sheer weight of
>> fruit. You can control but not eliminate woolly aphid on apple trees
>> with a stiff brush dipped in meths (wear eye protection).
>>
>> It is in the cracks that they lurk and keep open wounds on the tree. But
>> even on my parents where woolly aphid is completely out of control I
>> have never known them prevent an established tree from fruiting.
>
> Sorry - my error - it is rosy apple aphid. 90% of the leaf clusters
> and all of the fruit ones were infested, and the former were curled
> up beyond hope.
Oh. Nasty. I think if I had already lost the apple crop I'd have hit it
> In article <KGOAu.1654$2j5...@fx02.am4>,
> Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> We got no apples this year, because of catastrophic woolly aphid.
>>
>> Crumbs! How did they manage that? Last year was so good for apples that
>> the trees were in danger of fracturing branches with the sheer weight of
>> fruit. You can control but not eliminate woolly aphid on apple trees
>> with a stiff brush dipped in meths (wear eye protection).
>>
>> It is in the cracks that they lurk and keep open wounds on the tree. But
>> even on my parents where woolly aphid is completely out of control I
>> have never known them prevent an established tree from fruiting.
>
> Sorry - my error - it is rosy apple aphid. 90% of the leaf clusters
> and all of the fruit ones were infested, and the former were curled
> up beyond hope.
with something systemic intended for aphids on ornamental roses!
Or systemic and intended for food crops but OK to use on rosaceae.
>
>>> Now, the traditional solution is a tar oil winter wash, but the UK
>>> has banned that for domestic use. There are some organic replacements,
>>> but they don't look at all effective, and I don't want to harm the
>>> plants by using strong disinfectants (e.g. Armillatox or Jeyes'
>>> Fluid) in the absence of advice.
>>>
>>> So what would people recommend?
>>
>> Tar oil winter wash using the modern Jeyes fluid formulation.
>> (will kill anything green it touches - pretty much is a refined version
>> of tar oil but lacking some of the more carcinogenic components).
>
> Thanks, but how do you use it? I.e. what dilution and on what?
Brush or spray the bark with a 1:20 diluted emulsion and be sure to
>>> Now, the traditional solution is a tar oil winter wash, but the UK
>>> has banned that for domestic use. There are some organic replacements,
>>> but they don't look at all effective, and I don't want to harm the
>>> plants by using strong disinfectants (e.g. Armillatox or Jeyes'
>>> Fluid) in the absence of advice.
>>>
>>> So what would people recommend?
>>
>> Tar oil winter wash using the modern Jeyes fluid formulation.
>> (will kill anything green it touches - pretty much is a refined version
>> of tar oil but lacking some of the more carcinogenic components).
>
> Thanks, but how do you use it? I.e. what dilution and on what?
protect anything green that might get the spray/drips on it (and your
own skin - very definitely a job for scrap clothes on a still day).
It messes up the sprayer and smells awful in the air just like the real
tar oil wash. Eye protection goggles essential however you apply it.
Obviously it would be off license use of Jeyes fluid but you basically
only want to put a very thin layer of it on the outside of the tree to
discourage any eggs overwintering there. You never get 100% kill with
anything based on contact so you need to be vigilant in spring.
Alternatively you could try the organic neem oil mixture which is
supposed to work after a fashion but I have never tried it.
I loose most of my gooseberries to American mildew because I tend to
miss the window for spraying them prophylactically against it.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Derek
Jan 14, 2014, 4:29:15 AM1/14/14
to
On Mon, 13 Jan 2014 11:15:17 +0000 (GMT), n...@needham.csi.cam.ac.uk
(Nick Maclaren) wrote:
>>We use Armillatox in a ratio of '1 to 20' on tender fuchsia plants,
>>kills vine weevil eggs.
>
>Thanks - that is useful. On the stems or as a drench?
In a small pot, stand in a bowl, larger pots get a dribble (!) down
(Nick Maclaren) wrote:
>>We use Armillatox in a ratio of '1 to 20' on tender fuchsia plants,
>>kills vine weevil eggs.
>
>Thanks - that is useful. On the stems or as a drench?
the stem, so both ways the leafs do not get splashed
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