Bird damage
Sacha
this to the very brightly coloured primulas but I've never known my
primroses destroyed before! There's plenty of food around the garden
so it puzzles me. The snowdrops nearby are untouched.
--
Sacha
Jane Ransom
n.demon.co.uk> writes
They just nip off all the flower heads and leave them lying on the
ground round the plant :((
I suppose it is the same syndrome as foxes in a hen coop. Bite the head
off every chicken and not take one to eat :(((
--
Jane Ransom in Lancaster.
Malcolm Ogilvie
<ran...@mearsgyl.demon.co.uk> writes
This habit is discussed at some length in Derek Summers-Smith's
monograph on The House Sparrow (yes, someone has written a whole book
about them!). He says that a completely satisfactory explanation is
still lacking, but that if you examine the flower head carefully you
will see that it hasn't been torn at random but that the petals have
carefully shredded and that some has probably been eaten. Someone
studying stomach contents of trapped sparrows in America certainly found
flower petals.
There is a definite preference for yellow, though this may also be
because at the time of year when flower pecking is commonest, i.e. late
winter and spring, yellow-flowered plants tend to dominate, and
primroses are a regular target, despite Sacha's experience. Also,
primroses are nice and low growing and so available to the sparrows.
There has been a suggestion that they do it more in dry weather and that
they are getting something from the petals that they need, analogous to
the eating of other vegetable matter, such as young buds and leaves.
There's also a small amount of nectar at the base of the flower. One
observer said that the sparrows desisted from flower pecking when he
provided a bowl of water for them! This might be worth trying if you
want to persuade them to stop.
--
Malcolm
Sacha
<mal...@ogilvie.org> wrote:
>In article <vJISuxAp...@mearsgyl.demon.co.uk>, Jane Ransom
><ran...@mearsgyl.demon.co.uk> writes
>>In article <388ac9c9...@news.demon.co.uk>, Sacha <sacha@NOSPAMgarden
>>n.demon.co.uk> writes
>>>Can anyone tell me why birds attack primroses? <snip>
>>>--
>>I have never been able to figure it out Sacha.
>>They just nip off all the flower heads and leave them lying on the
>>ground round the plant :((
>>I suppose it is the same syndrome as foxes in a hen coop. Bite the head
>>off every chicken and not take one to eat :(((
>
>This habit is discussed at some length in Derek Summers-Smith's
>monograph on The House Sparrow <snip>
>
>There is a definite preference for yellow, though this may also be
>because at the time of year when flower pecking is commonest, i.e. late
>winter and spring, yellow-flowered plants tend to dominate, and
>primroses are a regular target, despite Sacha's experience. Also,
>primroses are nice and low growing and so available to the sparrows.
>There has been a suggestion that they do it more in dry weather <snip>
The dry weather bit makes sense. We've had little serious rain
recently and I will try the bowl of water idea. We have two ponds in
the garden and both give access for birds but the sparrows may not
appreciate that.
Thanks, Malcolm.
<snip>
--
Sacha
Jane Ransom
<mal...@ogilvie.org> writes
>>I have never been able to figure it out Sacha.
>>They just nip off all the flower heads and leave them lying on the
>>ground round the plant :((
>
>about them!). He says that a completely satisfactory explanation is
>still lacking, but that if you examine the flower head carefully you
>will see that it hasn't been torn at random but that the petals have
>carefully shredded and that some has probably been eaten. Someone
>studying stomach contents of trapped sparrows in America certainly found
>flower petals.
>
all neatly severed just at the top of the stalk. I once watched a
greenfinch decimate a whole primrose plant and it didn't attempt to eat
anything at all :((
>There is a definite preference for yellow,
I agree with that. Even when there are other colours there as well, they
always go for the yellow.
>though this may also be
>because at the time of year when flower pecking is commonest, i.e. late
>winter and spring, yellow-flowered plants tend to dominate, and
>primroses are a regular target, despite Sacha's experience. Also,
>primroses are nice and low growing and so available to the sparrows.
Believe me, it's not just sparrows.
>There has been a suggestion that they do it more in dry weather
Nope - they do it in *all* weathers. We have it particularly wet up here
most springs.
>and that
>they are getting something from the petals that they need, analogous to
>the eating of other vegetable matter, such as young buds and leaves.
>There's also a small amount of nectar at the base of the flower.
Now that might be a reason. Snip off the flower head where it joins the
stalk in order to get at the nectar. Though I must admit it never looks
as if they have time to sip anything before they move on to the next
flower head :((
>One
>observer said that the sparrows desisted from flower pecking when he
>provided a bowl of water for them! This might be worth trying if you
>want to persuade them to stop.
>
Good grief - mine grow round my pond.
Isn't that enough for them!!!!!?
Rod Craddock
personal thing.
Rod
Malcolm Ogilvie
<ran...@mearsgyl.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>Nope - they do it in *all* weathers. We have it particularly wet up here
>most springs.
>
>
>Now that might be a reason.
>>One
>>observer said that the sparrows desisted from flower pecking when he
>>provided a bowl of water for them! This might be worth trying if you
>>want to persuade them to stop.
>>
>Good grief - mine grow round my pond.
>Isn't that enough for them!!!!!?
You've obviously got some very special kinds of birds which haven't read
the book :-)
--
Malcolm
Jill Bell
<ran...@mearsgyl.demon.co.uk> writes
>I suppose it is the same syndrome as foxes in a hen coop. Bite the head
>off every chicken and not take one to eat :(((
Can I put in a plea for the poor fox - as a hunter it is *hard wired* to
kill - not as a game but as a means of survival. Out in the wild, by
the time it had killed one animal the rest would have disappeared and it
wouldn't leave what it had killed to go off and find more prey.
Put it in a hen house and it kills once, then again and again because
that's what it's instincts tell it to do - it isn't a game - just the
only way it knows how to behave.
And what would all the chickens be doing in the wild - all up in the
trees out of harm's way as soon as the first one had raised a squawk.
Jill
--
ji...@bellsbarn.demon.co.uk
k.dawson
> >>this to the very brightly coloured primulas but I've never known my
> >>primroses destroyed before! There's plenty of food around the garden
> >>so it puzzles me. The snowdrops nearby are untouched.
>
> because at the time of year when flower pecking is commonest, i.e. late
> winter and spring, yellow-flowered plants tend to dominate, and
> primroses are a regular target, despite Sacha's experience. Also,
> primroses are nice and low growing and so available to the sparrows.
We live in a very wet area with lots of lochs, but we still have a problme
with birds (mostly sparrows) attacking several plants, and not just in
spring. They have wrecked yellow crocus, ans also a yellow-flowered
saxifrage. At the time I thought they were going for the red stems, but
whatever the cause, the plant never survived the summer.
Perhaps its nectar, or the sap in the fleshy leaves.
Kate
Jane Ransom
<ji...@bellsbarn.demon.co.uk> writes
>In article <vJISuxAp...@mearsgyl.demon.co.uk>, Jane Ransom
><ran...@mearsgyl.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>>I suppose it is the same syndrome as foxes in a hen coop. Bite the head
>>off every chicken and not take one to eat :(((
>
>Can I put in a plea for the poor fox -
Not to me you can't, Jill :(((
I have a friend who lost 64 chickens in one night and not one carcass
was even so much as nibbled at.
Most carnivores kill what they need to eat.
Foxes kill wantonly.
Jane Ransom
<r...@gw4slk.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>Dunno about sparrows etc but pheasants do it just to annoy *me*, it's a
>personal thing.
>
Like the greenfinches and me :((
Jill Bell
<ran...@mearsgyl.demon.co.uk> writes
>In article <$gv9ZCAp...@bellsbarn.demon.co.uk>, Jill Bell
><ji...@bellsbarn.demon.co.uk> writes
>>In article <vJISuxAp...@mearsgyl.demon.co.uk>, Jane Ransom
>><ran...@mearsgyl.demon.co.uk> writes
>>
>>>I suppose it is the same syndrome as foxes in a hen coop. Bite the head
>>>off every chicken and not take one to eat :(((
>>
>>Can I put in a plea for the poor fox -
>
>Not to me you can't, Jill :(((
>
>I have a friend who lost 64 chickens in one night and not one carcass
>was even so much as nibbled at.
>Most carnivores kill what they need to eat.
I suspect that put into a similar situation most carnivores would do
exactly the same - but they rarely, if ever, have the chance.
>Foxes kill wantonly.
As do cats, dogs, and any other carnivore that is given the opportunity.
That was the point I was trying to make - that given the appropriate
circumstances the fox can only do what its instincts are programmed to
do. The chickens are not in a position to follow their instincts - if
they were, the slaughter wouldn't arise.
It's quite possible that having killed 64 chickens the fox was too
exhausted and hyped up to eat.
Jill
--
ji...@bellsbarn.demon.co.uk
Jill Bell
<r...@gw4slk.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>Dunno about sparrows etc but pheasants do it just to annoy *me*, it's a
>personal thing.
them loose in the countryside - the number of accidents I've nearly had
trying to avoid the damn things. (And believe it or not - if you run
one over and stop to pick it up - that's poaching. If the person in the
car behind you picks it up - that's ok.)
Jill
--
ji...@bellsbarn.demon.co.uk
M K Rogerson
Martin R
Jill Bell <ji...@bellsbarn.demon.co.uk> wrote in message . (And believe it
Sacha
<ji...@bellsbarn.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <86f34f$3j$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>, Rod Craddock
><r...@gw4slk.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>>Dunno about sparrows etc but pheasants do it just to annoy *me*, it's a
>>personal thing.
>
>And I *do* wish somebody would teach them road sense before they turn
>them loose in the countryside - the number of accidents I've nearly had
>trying to avoid the damn things. (And believe it or not - if you run
>one over and stop to pick it up - that's poaching. If the person in the
>car behind you picks it up - that's ok.)
>
And the convoy meets where? ;-)
--
Sacha
>--
>ji...@bellsbarn.demon.co.uk
Malcolm Ogilvie
<ji...@bellsbarn.demon.co.uk> writes
>In article <86f34f$3j$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>, Rod Craddock
><r...@gw4slk.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>>Dunno about sparrows etc but pheasants do it just to annoy *me*, it's a
>>personal thing.
>
>And I *do* wish somebody would teach them road sense before they turn
>them loose in the countryside - the number of accidents I've nearly had
>trying to avoid the damn things. (And believe it or not - if you run
>one over and stop to pick it up - that's poaching. If the person in the
>car behind you picks it up - that's ok.)
>
along a narrow country lane. A pheasant flew across the road, hit the
car and fell dead in the middle of the lane. The car stopped and, as the
lane was narrow, I had to stop behind it, passing the pheasant as I did
so. I called instructions to a friend sitting in the back seats of the
landrover and he leapt out of the rear door, grabbed the pheasant and
got back in. The car, meantime, had pulled on to the verge to let me go
by and, as I did so, someone got out and walked back to look for the
pheasant :-)
Oh well, we saved them from committing a crime!
--
Malcolm
John Neale Baraclough
from Jane Ransom <ran...@mearsgyl.demon.co.uk> contains these words:
> >There is a definite preference for yellow,
> I agree with that. Even when there are other colours there as well, they
> always go for the yellow.
> >though this may also be
> >because at the time of year when flower pecking is commonest, i.e. late
> >winter and spring, yellow-flowered plants tend to dominate, and
> >primroses are a regular target, despite Sacha's experience. Also,
> >primroses are nice and low growing and so available to the sparrows.
I can't grow yellow crocus because something eats every one; blue
and purple are left alone.We don't have house sparrows here.
Janet (West Scotland)
John Neale Baraclough
from Jane Ransom <ran...@mearsgyl.demon.co.uk> contains these words:
> >Can I put in a plea for the poor fox -
> Not to me you can't, Jill :(((
> I have a friend who lost 64 chickens in one night and not one carcass
> was even so much as nibbled at.
> Most carnivores kill what they need to eat.
> Foxes kill wantonly.
Very different from human "sports" hunters,shooters and fishers
who kill more than they can eat,because they like doing it?
Janet
Kay Easton
<ji...@bellsbarn.demon.co.uk> writes
>In article <86f34f$3j$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>, Rod Craddock
><r...@gw4slk.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>>Dunno about sparrows etc but pheasants do it just to annoy *me*, it's a
>>personal thing.
>
>And I *do* wish somebody would teach them road sense before they turn
>them loose in the countryside - the number of accidents I've nearly had
>trying to avoid the damn things. (And believe it or not - if you run
>one over and stop to pick it up - that's poaching. If the person in the
>car behind you picks it up - that's ok.)
>
he does, I'm not poaching?
--
Kay Easton
Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/garden/
Nick Maclaren
If it lands on the highway, no. Who has a right to it is less
clear. There was a court case about this, but I forget what the
conclusion was (if any) - anyway, the bird was inedible long
before the matter was settled.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren,
University of Cambridge Computing Service,
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG, England.
Email: nm...@cam.ac.uk
Tel.: +44 1223 334761 Fax: +44 1223 334679
M K Rogerson
have a go.
Martin R
John Neale Baraclough <janet.a...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:200001241...@zetnet.co.uk...
> The message <AkzJVbAG...@mearsgyl.demon.co.uk>
> from Jane Ransom <ran...@mearsgyl.demon.co.uk> contains these words:
>
Jill Bell
<janet.a...@zetnet.co.uk> writes
>The message <AkzJVbAG...@mearsgyl.demon.co.uk>
> from Jane Ransom <ran...@mearsgyl.demon.co.uk> contains these words:
>
>> >There is a definite preference for yellow,
>
>> I agree with that. Even when there are other colours there as well, they
>> always go for the yellow.
>
>> >though this may also be
>> >because at the time of year when flower pecking is commonest, i.e. late
>> >winter and spring, yellow-flowered plants tend to dominate, and
>> >primroses are a regular target, despite Sacha's experience. Also,
>> >primroses are nice and low growing and so available to the sparrows.
>
>
> I can't grow yellow crocus because something eats every one; blue
>and purple are left alone.We don't have house sparrows here.
>
like them too:-)
Jill
--
ji...@bellsbarn.demon.co.uk
Jane Ransom
<ji...@bellsbarn.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>It's quite possible that having killed 64 chickens the fox was too
>exhausted and hyped up to eat.
>
k.dawson
stop/divert them? (whoever 'they' are)
Malcolm Ogilvie <mal...@ogilvie.org> wrote in message
news:z9Av37C2...@indaal.demon.co.uk...
> In article <AkzJVbAG...@mearsgyl.demon.co.uk>, Jane Ransom
> <ran...@mearsgyl.demon.co.uk> writes
Malcolm Ogilvie
<k.da...@ukonline.co.uk> writes
>> the book :-)
>>
>stop/divert them? (whoever 'they' are)
No :-(
--
Malcolm
Jill Bell
<ran...@mearsgyl.demon.co.uk> writes
>In article <MVRh0FAS...@bellsbarn.demon.co.uk>, Jill Bell
><ji...@bellsbarn.demon.co.uk> writes
>>
>>It's quite possible that having killed 64 chickens the fox was too
>>exhausted and hyped up to eat.
>>
>Shall we just agree to differ on this one, Jill :)))))))) ?
I'll shake on that:-)
Jill
--
ji...@bellsbarn.demon.co.uk
Jill Bell
><ji...@bellsbarn.demon.co.uk> writes
>>In article <86f34f$3j$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>, Rod Craddock
>><r...@gw4slk.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>>>Dunno about sparrows etc but pheasants do it just to annoy *me*, it's a
>>>personal thing.
>>
>>And I *do* wish somebody would teach them road sense before they turn
>>them loose in the countryside - the number of accidents I've nearly had
>>trying to avoid the damn things. (And believe it or not - if you run
>>one over and stop to pick it up - that's poaching. If the person in the
>>car behind you picks it up - that's ok.)
>>
>By analogy - if I see someone shoot a pheasant, and I get to it before
>he does, I'm not poaching?
Only if you can manage to get to it before his faithful labrador:-)
Jill (owner of Ghillie - labrador, much loved)
Sacha
<janet.a...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>The message <AkzJVbAG...@mearsgyl.demon.co.uk>
> from Jane Ransom <ran...@mearsgyl.demon.co.uk> contains these words:
>
>> >There is a definite preference for yellow,
>
>> I agree with that. Even when there are other colours there as well, they
>> always go for the yellow.
>
<snip>
> I can't grow yellow crocus because something eats every one; blue
>and purple are left alone.We don't have house sparrows here.
>
Yellow does seem to be the key. With other, brightly coloured
primulas of different hues it's the yellow centre that I've seen
destroyed many times.
--
Sacha
Michael Berridge
Jill Bell wrote in message ...
>In article <86f34f$3j$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>, Rod Craddock
><r...@gw4slk.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>>Dunno about sparrows etc but pheasants do it just to annoy *me*, it's a
>>personal thing.
>
>And I *do* wish somebody would teach them road sense before they turn
>them loose in the countryside - the number of accidents I've nearly had
>trying to avoid the damn things. (And believe it or not - if you run
>one over and stop to pick it up - that's poaching. If the person in the
>car behind you picks it up - that's ok.)
>
>--
>ji...@bellsbarn.demon.co.uk
Yes and I've had many a meal that way. They always seem better than if you
bought them. BTW a few years ago when we kept Irish Setters we let them out
one morning and they all ran to an area of the paved area they had which had
a fence covered, down to the ground and then some, with Montana Reubens.
They seemed very interested in something there so I went to investigate and
there was a nice, freshly dead Pheasant. I took it in (purely out of concern
and after a couple of days I ripped its feathers off. Just a few shot
marks,seems like the local farmers had been shooting, and this one made a
dive for our garden after being hit. Food for free or what?
Mike
Alan Gould
<nm...@cus.cam.ac.uk> writes
snip....
>|> By analogy - if I see someone shoot a pheasant, and I get to it before
>|> he does, I'm not poaching?
>
>clear. There was a court case about this, but I forget what the
>conclusion was (if any) - anyway, the bird was inedible long
>before the matter was settled.
I thought the general rule to be that the bird belongs to whoever owns
the place it lands on. If it's on a road it would belong to the local
Highway Authority in theory, but in practice the poacher would be long
gone with the bird before they took any action.
--
Alan Gould: <al...@agolincs.demon.co.uk>
Badger
> > from Jane Ransom <ran...@mearsgyl.demon.co.uk> contains these words:
> >
> >> >There is a definite preference for yellow,
> >
> >> I agree with that. Even when there are other colours there as well,
they
> >> always go for the yellow.
> >
> >> >because at the time of year when flower pecking is commonest, i.e.
late
> >> >winter and spring, yellow-flowered plants tend to dominate, and
> >> >primroses are a regular target, despite Sacha's experience. Also,
> >> >primroses are nice and low growing and so available to the sparrows.
> >
> >
> >and purple are left alone.We don't have house sparrows here.
> >
> like them too:-)
>
about 5 years ago. I haven't seen a single sparrow in Central London since.
--
Pete The Gardener
A room without books is like a body without a soul
pete_the...@hotmail.com
http://members.xoom.com/pete_the_g/index.htm
Peter Matthews
<mal...@ogilvie.org> writes
>In article <AkzJVbAG...@mearsgyl.demon.co.uk>, Jane Ransom
><ran...@mearsgyl.demon.co.uk> writes
>>In article <ZRulc0AN...@indaal.demon.co.uk>, Malcolm Ogilvie
>><mal...@ogilvie.org> writes
>>
>>>There has been a suggestion that they do it more in dry weather
>>
>>Nope - they do it in *all* weathers. We have it particularly wet up here
>>most springs.
>>
>>>There's also a small amount of nectar at the base of the flower.
>>
>>Now that might be a reason.
>
>>>One
>>>observer said that the sparrows desisted from flower pecking when he
>>>provided a bowl of water for them! This might be worth trying if you
>>>want to persuade them to stop.
>>>
>>Good grief - mine grow round my pond.
>>Isn't that enough for them!!!!!?
>
>the book :-)
>
it may be that the birds are after both nectar and insects.
Alternatively the birds may also be able to see colours beyond our
visible range and find them annoying. What we see as attractive petals
fluttering in the breeze may be an irritating flashing ultraviolet light
to a sparrow or even be similar to a threat display from another
sparrow.
Or it may be that they like the taste of the stigmas from the crocus
after all we like Saffron.
Regards
Peter Matthews
Jill Bell
@hotmail.com> writes
>> I can export Derbyshire ones! Maybe tree sparrows and hedge sparrows
>> like them too:-)
>>
>Could you send some down here to South Kensington? Ours all disappeared
>about 5 years ago. I haven't seen a single sparrow in Central London since.
>
sparrows, I mean) but now they're becoming common again and there are
often a dozen or more feeding outside the back door.
Jill
--
ji...@bellsbarn.demon.co.uk
M K Rogerson
sparrow in the garden. There are loads half a mile down the road. Most
strange.
Martin R
Jill Bell <ji...@bellsbarn.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:hCCaBhAb...@bellsbarn.demon.co.uk...
Michael Berridge
M K Rogerson wrote in message <86nm9f$864$3...@apple.news.easynet.net>...
plenty of Dunnocks, blue tits, great tits, greenfinches, a pair of collared
doves, wagtails, robins, chaffinches, even a pheasant, and sparrowhawk. We
also often get Redwings and Fieldfares in winter. We welcome then and have
never had much problem with damage, except for next doors pesky chicken,
which may be headed for the deep freeze!
Mike
Badger
"Michael Berridge" <Michael....@ukgateway.net> wrote in message
news:86nu3h$gmj$5...@lure.pipex.net...
them all :-).
Alan Holmes
Jill Bell wrote in message ...
>@hotmail.com> writes
>>> I can export Derbyshire ones! Maybe tree sparrows and hedge sparrows
>>> like them too:-)
>>>
>>Could you send some down here to South Kensington? Ours all disappeared
>>about 5 years ago. I haven't seen a single sparrow in Central London
since.
>>
> Strangely we hardly ever saw one until a year or so back ( house
>sparrows, I mean) but now they're becoming common again and there are
>often a dozen or more feeding outside the back door.
The damned Magpies see all our small birds off!
Pity they don't do the same to the squirrels!
Alan
Alan Gabriel
news:87udlf$3k0$9...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
> The damned Magpies see all our small birds off!
>
> Pity they don't do the same to the squirrels!
>
> Alan
>
>
See my Sig ;-)
--
Alan Gabriel
--------------------
Preserve wildlife - Pickle a squirrel
Remove hat. to reply