Whitebeam tree
Chris Kaley
semi-shaded part of the garden.
It doesn't appear to thrive.
Although it puts out buds and fresh leaves each spring, they don't last
long - usually turning brown by the middle of July, and falling off. A sort
of early autumn!
The trunk is still very thin, and it generally looks very unhappy.
A Prunus bought at the same time, and planted elsewhere in the garden is
going great guns.
Can anyone hazard a guess as to what's wrong - is it likely to be diseased,
or is there an optimum planting site for a whitebeam?
Any help would be appreciated.
Chris
Kay Easton
<C.H.M...@BTInternet.com> writes
flowering and fruiting with enthusiasm each year - loses its leaves
early - they're all being shed atm.
--
Kay Easton
Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/garden/
Chris Kaley
Thanks for that!!
Chris
"Kay Easton" <k...@scarboro.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:$MF+zIOH...@scarboro.demon.co.uk...
Larry Stoter
Fascinating trees - whitebeams or sorbus, have a tendancy to form
microspecies. There are 20+ native species in the UK, a significant
number of which occur only in a few, or sometimes one, location. Most
are very slow growing with a tendancy to look somewhat feeble but are
usually very tenacious, having a preference for exposed, rocky locations
and a hard life. Such as the Avon Gorge, rocky outcrops in the Brecon
Beacons or Dartmoor!
Good for birds - all species producing berries in the autumn.
As part of the millenium celebrations, Bristol University Botanic
Gardens produced saplings of various species. I was delighted to acquire
sorbus wilmontiana and sorbus bristoliensis. Both are currently, I
guess, ~6 years old and wilmotiana is ~2ft high and bristoliensis ~18".
Most are very low growing and small when mature (20 ft max), making them
ideal for smaller gardens and for urban streets. Yours should be
reasonably healthy looking but at 3 years, small
Of course, if you've got a Swedish Whitebeam, it has probaly got some
nasty disease and will shortly die ;-))
--
Larry Stoter
Janet Galpin and Oliver Patterson
from la...@cymru.freewire.co.uk (Larry Stoter) contains these words:
>
> Fascinating trees - whitebeams or sorbus, have a tendancy to form
> microspecies. There are 20+ native species in the UK, a significant
> number of which occur only in a few, or sometimes one, location. Most
> are very slow growing with a tendancy to look somewhat feeble but are
> usually very tenacious, having a preference for exposed, rocky locations
> and a hard life. Such as the Avon Gorge, rocky outcrops in the Brecon
> Beacons or Dartmoor!
> Good for birds - all species producing berries in the autumn.
> As part of the millenium celebrations, Bristol University Botanic
> Gardens produced saplings of various species. I was delighted to acquire
> sorbus wilmontiana and sorbus bristoliensis. Both are currently, I
> guess, ~6 years old and wilmotiana is ~2ft high and bristoliensis ~18".
> Most are very low growing and small when mature (20 ft max), making them
> ideal for smaller gardens and for urban streets. Yours should be
> reasonably healthy looking but at 3 years, small
> Of course, if you've got a Swedish Whitebeam, it has probaly got some
> nasty disease and will shortly die ;-))
> --
> Larry Stoter
What is this nasty disease which Swedish Whitebeams get? Twice I've
bought what was supposed to be a native whitebeam and turned out to be
Swedish whitebeam or a hybrid. I hadn't realised they wouldn't be with
me for long though.
Janet G
Chris Kaley
Chris
"Janet Galpin and Oliver Patterson" <decoy...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in
message news:200208212...@zetnet.co.uk...
Larry Stoter
Sorry - with regard to Swedish Whitebeams I was being somewhat facetious
and assuming, possibly incorrectly, that a non-native was more likely to
succumb to disease. I don't actually have any specific knowledge.
I have only come across two useful sources of information on native
whitebeams:
1. The Bristol University Alumni Magazine (1999?), where the University
Botanic Gardens produced a short but informative article as part of
their Millenium offer.
2. Richard Mabey's Flora Britannica.
The different native species vary considerably in leaf size, shape and
structure of edges, colour and pattering of berries and overall size.
The only descriptions and pictures I've seen were in the Bristol Alumni
Magazine, although I guess there is information in specialist
publications?
The common native whitebeam is, I believe, sorbus aria. The wood is very
hard and tough and was used for making cog wheels in wooden machinery.
The best known 'whitebeam' is the Rowan or Mountain Ash, sorbus
aucuparia. Lots of folk myths about Rowan, many relating to warding off
of witches. The one I like best, which I've heard, I think,
interestingly in both Scottish and Chinese (the Hupeh Rowan, sorbus
hepehensis being a Chinese native) contexts is the "screaming tree".
When you are really angry and upset about something, you go and let it
all out by have a good yell at the tree, which soaks up all the emotion
and makes you feel a lot better without harming or upsetting anybody
else - except, never cut down the "screaming tree", otherwise all the
hate will be released ................ The Rowan's wood is also very
tough but more flexible that the "Whitebeam". Was used a lot for carving
decorative objects and as handles for tools.
Other native micro-species include (from Flora Britannica):
Arran Service Tree, S. pseudofennica grows in Glen Catacol, Arran,
S. Arranensis, the Arran Islands,
S. leyana, limestone crags near Merthyr Tydfil,
S. minima on Carboniferous limestone in the Welsh Borders and SW
England,
S. leptophylla in two areas of limestone crags in Brecon,
S. wilmottiana, in the Avon Gorge in Bristol,
S. eminens, in limestone woodland in the Wye Valley and Avon Gorge,
S. porrigentiformus (is that really its name!) in SW England and S
Wales,
S. lancastriensis in W Lancashire and Westmorland,
S. vexans in rocky, non-limestone woods along the Bristol Channel coasts
of Devon and Somerset,
S. subcuneata in rocky oakwoods of N Devon and Somerset,
S. bristoliensis in the Avon Gorge,
Devon Whitebeam, S. devoniensis throughout Devon, into E Cornwall and
the Isle of Man!!
In most cases, the different species are actually distinct to the naked
eye and don't require DNA analysis to separate them, although you need
to be able to examine both leaves and berries to get close to an
identifiaction. Most/all are small - 15ft to 20ft max in the native
(usually hard) habitats. Apparently, all of the native species' fruits
are edible after bletting.
Further confusion arises from three imported species:
Swedish Service Tree, S. hybrida from Scandinavia
Swedish Whitebeam, S. intermedia from the Baltic coast
S. latifolia, from SW Europe
These last three have been widely planted in Britain, especially as
street trees by councils. Further spread has been assisted by the birds.
Finally, an orange-berried whitebeam S. croceocarpa grows on the north
shore of the Menia Strait and noboby seems to know where it comes from!
And if you can find a commercial supplier who has got any idea what they
are in fact supplying as a "whitebeam", I'd be impressed.
My S. bristoliensis and S. wilmottiana should be producing berries in
the next 2-3 years (I hope). I'll happily take provisional orders for
sapplings for 2010 ;-))
--
Larry Stoter
Janet Galpin and Oliver Patterson
from la...@cymru.freewire.co.uk (Larry Stoter) contains these words:
> Chris Kaley <C.H.M...@BTInternet.com> wrote:
> >
> > > What is this nasty disease which Swedish Whitebeams get? Twice I've
> > > bought what was supposed to be a native whitebeam and turned out to be
> > > Swedish whitebeam or a hybrid. I hadn't realised they wouldn't be with
> > > me for long though.
> > > Janet G
> Sorry - with regard to Swedish Whitebeams I was being somewhat facetious
> and assuming, possibly incorrectly, that a non-native was more likely to
> succumb to disease. I don't actually have any specific knowledge.
<snip>
Thanks for all the really intersting information (snipped) about
whitebeams and rowans. I'm glad there's hope for my Swedish whitebeam,
even though it's a non-native.
> In most cases, the different species are actually distinct to the naked
> eye and don't require DNA analysis to separate them, although you need
> to be able to examine both leaves and berries to get close to an
> identifiaction. Most/all are small - 15ft to 20ft max in the native
> (usually hard) habitats. Apparently, all of the native species' fruits
> are edible after bletting.
> Further confusion arises from three imported species:
> Swedish Service Tree, S. hybrida from Scandinavia
> Swedish Whitebeam, S. intermedia from the Baltic coast
> S. latifolia, from SW Europe
> These last three have been widely planted in Britain, especially as
> street trees by councils. Further spread has been assisted by the birds.
I have some Sorbus hybrida which I grew from RHS seed. I hadn't come
across the common name Swedish Service Tree before but knew it as
Bastard Service tree.
> Finally, an orange-berried whitebeam S. croceocarpa grows on the north
> shore of the Menia Strait and noboby seems to know where it comes from!
> And if you can find a commercial supplier who has got any idea what they
> are in fact supplying as a "whitebeam", I'd be impressed.
I can't. They tend to turn out to be Swedish whitebeam or hybrids, shown
by the lobed and, in some cases, divided leaves. I have finally grown
what I take to be the real Whitebeam which has nice large leaves of an
entirely simple unlobed shape, light and felty underneath, from seed
bought from Chiltern Seeds.
> My S. bristoliensis and S. wilmottiana should be producing berries in
> the next 2-3 years (I hope). I'll happily take provisional orders for
> sapplings for 2010 ;-))
Or seeds in 2007?? Yes please!
Janet G
Larry Stoter
snips ....
> Or seeds in 2007?? Yes please!
>
> Janet G
If I remember, or if you remind me, certainly.
--
Larry Stoter
Fernley Symons
Just to add...
In case Larry's posts weren't confusing enough - whitebeam species are
quite good at hybridising. Several of the endemic British microspecies
are the result of ancient hybridisation events between the commoner
species. The shape of the leaves often gives this away. Identification
of some species/hybrids is easy in the field [e.g. S. bristoliensis
which has characteristic step-like edges to its leaves] but for others
you probably should consult Clive Stace's British flora book. (I'd be
interested to know just how many undiscovered whitebeam species there
are scattered through Europe.)
Britain has other endemic microspecies & some of these are v. rare.
For example, the Snowdonia Hawkweed was recently rediscovered. In
general the plants have given up conventional sex and are effectively
clones. I'd like to see more publicity given to them & to see them
more widely grown. These species are every bit as much of our heritage
as more widely available garden cultivars.
Fernley
fernley...@dwp.gsi.gov.uk