Hydroleca

[Spider]

I have been wondering about using Hydroleca as a substitute for aquatic
compost when potting up pond plants. There's probably a very good reason
why I've never heard of it being done, despite its being used for
hydroponics. Perhaps it's too light? I'd be interested in other
urglers' opinions/experience.

--
Spider.
On high ground in SE London
gardening on heavy clay

[Jeff Layman]

On 16/08/2014 12:18, Spider wrote:
> I have been wondering about using Hydroleca as a substitute for aquatic
> compost when potting up pond plants. There's probably a very good reason
> why I've never heard of it being done, despite its being used for
> hydroponics. Perhaps it's too light? I'd be interested in other
> urglers' opinions/experience.

Well, it's no more a substitute for compost as stones would be for soil.
Basically it;'s a nutrient-free porous artificial rock. But I guess
that if your pond water has sufficient nutrients, the plants would
extract what they need from the water.

But then, they could equally extract the nutrients if they were just
held in place by stones or gravel. And those, of course, would be a lot
cheaper than hydroleca...

--

Jeff

[stuart noble]

On 16/08/2014 12:18, Spider wrote:

> I have been wondering about using Hydroleca as a substitute for aquatic
> compost when potting up pond plants. There's probably a very good reason
> why I've never heard of it being done, despite its being used for
> hydroponics. Perhaps it's too light? I'd be interested in other
> urglers' opinions/experience.
>

I imagine it has similar properties to vermiculite and perlite. Yes,
very light when dry, BUT extremely heavy when wet. They recommend it for
roof gardens, which doesn't make much sense.

[stuart noble]

On 16/08/2014 13:43, Chris Hogg wrote:

> On Sat, 16 Aug 2014 12:18:02 +0100, Spider <spi...@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> I have been wondering about using Hydroleca as a substitute for aquatic
>> compost when potting up pond plants. There's probably a very good reason
>> why I've never heard of it being done, despite its being used for
>> hydroponics. Perhaps it's too light? I'd be interested in other
>> urglers' opinions/experience.
>

> Never used it, so can't answer your question, but Hydroleca is just a
> trade name for Lightweight Expanded Clay Aggregate (the Leca bit),
> widely available and probably a lot cheaper than Hydroleca. See
> http://tinyurl.com/owjjpe5 for general info. At one time in Cornwall
> large quantities (many lorry-loads) were used as fill in 'escape
> lanes' at the bottom of long steep hills where lorries whose brakes
> had failed could be brought to a reasonably safe halt. And no, I never
> did avail myself of the resource (but I bet some did!)
>
> If it does turn out to be a bit light (it may even float; it has a
> malteser-like structure), you could always mix it with gravel to
> weight it.
>

Allegedly it holds 40% of its own weight in water, which isn't a lot
comapared to vermiculite, but enough to stop it floating.

[Spider]

On 16/08/2014 13:43, Chris Hogg wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Aug 2014 12:18:02 +0100, Spider <spi...@invalid.com> wrote:
>

>> I have been wondering about using Hydroleca as a substitute for aquatic
>> compost when potting up pond plants. There's probably a very good reason
>> why I've never heard of it being done, despite its being used for
>> hydroponics. Perhaps it's too light? I'd be interested in other
>> urglers' opinions/experience.
>

> Never used it, so can't answer your question, but Hydroleca is just a
> trade name for Lightweight Expanded Clay Aggregate (the Leca bit),
> widely available and probably a lot cheaper than Hydroleca. See
> http://tinyurl.com/owjjpe5 for general info. At one time in Cornwall
> large quantities (many lorry-loads) were used as fill in 'escape
> lanes' at the bottom of long steep hills where lorries whose brakes
> had failed could be brought to a reasonably safe halt. And no, I never
> did avail myself of the resource (but I bet some did!)
>
> If it does turn out to be a bit light (it may even float; it has a
> malteser-like structure), you could always mix it with gravel to
> weight it.
>

Thanks, Chris. I had a look at that link and one or two images seemed
to suggest it might float. If it's really light enough to float, I'm
not sure gravel would help much, unless it was quite chunky.

Perhaps I'll just have to buy some and see if it sinks or floats. I'm
sure I could use the rest for top-dressing pots if I can't use it in the
pond.

[Spider]

Very sensible observations. Plant nutrients might well come from the
few fish I have, but if gravel/stones will do the job, I could try that.
Thanks.

[Spider]

Yes, I can see that it might be like vermiculite/perlite, except they'd
be really hopeless in a pond. I think I will experiment with gravel
first and see if that will suffice.

I had some idea that Hydroleca would be less muddy in a pond than the
proper compost, and be more widely available. I don't often see aquatic
compost for sale, so was looking for a substitute.

Thanks for your input.

[Bob Hobden]

"Spider" wrote...

>
>I have been wondering about using Hydroleca as a substitute for aquatic
>compost when potting up pond plants. There's probably a very good reason
>why I've never heard of it being done, despite its being used for
>hydroponics. Perhaps it's too light? I'd be interested in other urglers'
>opinions/experience.
>
>

That is very light especially in water so any movement by fish and you will
have empty pots. The main problem is that it is nutrient sterile so you
plants will not grow well especially gross feeders like lilies not matter
how rich your pond water.
For lilies use good garden soil as long as it hasn't been manured/fertilized
recently, not even that "Aquatic compost" is good enough for them without
also buying their own fertilizer. (waste of money IMO). The soil should be
covered with pebbles but they must be big enough and heavy enough that the
fish can't move them and get in and suck up the mud to feed. For Goldfish a
goldfish sized pebble is about right, for Koi no pebble is big enough, cover
the pots with a wire mesh wired down well but ensure the fish cannot get
caught in the mesh but the lily can send up shoots through it.
--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK

[Bob Hobden]

"stuart noble" wrote

I used it as a filter medium once and some of it will float but it will all
be too light to use in a pond, the fish will have it out of the pots in
short order.

[Jeff Layman]

On 16/08/2014 22:30, Spider wrote:
>
> Perhaps I'll just have to buy some and see if it sinks or floats. I'm
> sure I could use the rest for top-dressing pots if I can't use it in the
> pond.

You can sometimes find house plants in hydroleca in garden centres. If
you can find such a plant which is well past its best, you could ask the
GC if they will let you have it to try the hydroleca as a pond plant
medium. They might even have an area of plants awaiting disposal which
are in hydroleca, and you could get a potful for free.

--

Jeff

[Spider]

Thanks, Bob. That definitely rules it out for pond use, then. If half
of it sinks and half of it floats, I'll be forever netting it from the
pond. Silly idea abandoned :-}

[Spider]

That would be a good idea, Jeff, if Bob hadn't just helped me scupper
the whole idea! Thanks for the thought, though. I have done successful
scrounging in gcs/nurseries before, so I know it can be worthwhile. No
harm in asking.

[Spider]

Thanks, Bob, you'd already made up my mind over the weight issue, so
I've abandoned Hydroleca for pond use.
Very interesting what you say about aquatic compost and lilies. I do
have a small lily in the pond. It's in its second summer with me and
has produced a flower bed, so I imagine there's enough food for now.
Maybe next year I'll have to pot it into better compost and, presumably,
a bigger pot? I have some reasonably good garden soil in the veg patch
which would suit, but I used chicken manure pellets on it this Spring.
Do you think it will be safe enough to use in the pond by next April, say?

As to my fish, they were rescued and given to me so, although I'm fairly
sure they're not goldfish, I don't know what they are. Definitely not
Orfe since I had those previously. It is possible, I suppose, that they
are small Koi. It's not easy to photograph them as they're not at the
surface for very long. I suppose I'll know they're Koi when they grow
too big for my little pond and start moving the plants about!

[David Hill]

I seem to remember in my "Youth" we cut old turf about 2 inches thick
and wrapped that around a house brick, grass innermost. and planted
water lilies into that.
If you are going to use garden soil then think of mixing it with some
stones and putting it all into an old sprout or cabbage net.
The net will stop the fish ploughing up the soil, and wont rot.
As for your worry about poultry manure, remember there are many water
birds such as ducks, morehens etc that don't get out of the water to
relieve themselves.
David @ a now sunny side of Swansea Bay

[Spider]

Thanks, David, that's a good tip. I've usually lined my aquatic pots
with torn up old tee shirts (there's a limit to how many dusters one can
use!), which keeps the soil in place, but I'll investigate cabbage nets.
I'm not sure I'd want to eat and paddle in water I'd just soiled! At
least chick poo pellets are sterilised. I'll not be too worried, then.
Thanks.

[Bob Hobden]

"Spider" wrote

>Thanks, David, that's a good tip. I've usually lined my aquatic pots with
>torn up old tee shirts (there's a limit to how many dusters one can use!),
>which keeps the soil in place, but I'll investigate cabbage nets.
>I'm not sure I'd want to eat and paddle in water I'd just soiled! At least
>chick poo pellets are sterilised. I'll not be too worried, then.
>

A pet beef of mine is the pots they sell for water plants covered in holes
so the soil washes out. Do water plants need drainage holes? I think not.
Recently I have seen some lily pots that are solid so don't need a liner at
all, actually you could use a bin from a pound shop, I have on occasion. For
example RHS Wisley and others use half dustbins.

[Spider]

I know what you mean; it is rather frustrating. On one hand, I see the
roots growing through the mesh pots and am pleased the plant is growing
and flourishing; on the other, when I come to pot on that plant and have
to tear many roots to free it from the old pot, I am not so pleased.
I'd always assumed the 'escaping' roots were searching for oxygen or
food, and wonder if they could do that efficiently enough in a solid
pot. However, if you're seeing water lilies in solid pots, then it
makes me wonder.

My wee little water lily doesn't need anything like even half a dustbin!
It's a tiny one (Nymphaea Odorata Firecrest) to suit my tiny pond. I
also have a Nymphoides peltata and the ubiquitous Iris pseudoacorus.
Although the pond is on two levels, it's quite small, so I'm doing well
to get that much plant material in it. In the lower level, which is
very shallow, I have a few marginal/bog plants.

I do wish I had a huge pond, so I could have more fish and lots more
plants, but short of digging the house up, I'm not sure where it would go!

[Spider]

On 17/08/2014 18:13, Chris Hogg wrote:

> I'm pretty sure Kew use huge tubs without drainage holes for their
> Victoria amazonica lilies. But Spider should be aware that if she
> introduces a highly nitrogenous fertiliser into her pond, she will get
> an absolute mass of algae and the water will become like pea soup.
>



Mmmm. That is what I was worried about. I do want to be able to see my
fish occasionally, quite apart from the water becoming choked up with
weed. I may just use gravel or aquatic compost (if I can get it), then
use the 'feed bomb' method shown on TV recently. Can't remember if it
was Monty Donn or Alan Titchmarsh, but it looked quite easy.

[Bob Hobden]

"Spider" wrote

Iris pseudoacorus is a bit of a thug and can get to be a problem especially
in a small pond. I composted my "variegata" and got some nice smaller water
iris. Iris laevigata comes in many colours and forms and is never invasive
and will look more in keeping with a small pond.
Nymphoides peltata can grow quickly and may become a problem eventually.

[Spider]

Yes, I know about Iris pseudacorus and its thuggishness. This
incarnation is a split from a much bigger clump and I'm keeping an eye
on it, you may be sure. The Nymphoides hasn't become a problem yet, in
fact it's struggling a bit this year.
I'm suddenly very interested in Iris laevigata! I must have a good
Google and see what's available. I do have Iris sibirica, but I can't
grow that in permanently wet soil, or the pond, but they are lovely. I
just love seeing Irises by water, but they do have to be the right kind.
Thank you for your considerable input to my learning curve, Bob!

[Spider]

On 18/08/2014 16:06, Chris Hogg wrote:

> On Mon, 18 Aug 2014 14:42:45 +0100, Spider <spi...@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm suddenly very interested in Iris laevigata! I must have a good
>> Google and see what's available. I do have Iris sibirica, but I can't
>> grow that in permanently wet soil, or the pond, but they are lovely.
>

> Why not I. sibirica, may I ask? Although I read it's not for wet
> conditions, I grow it in a basket in the pond, partially submerged. It
> does well enough. Maybe we have milder winters down here than some.
>


QWell, I thought I *could* have I. sibirica in a rather soggy bog
garden, but have just read that it doesn't like permanently wet roots,
which is a shame because that's where I have just moved mine to. I
would love to find that I don't have to dig it up and move it again.
I'm sure you do have milder winters than us. Although we're in London
and you might expect a mildish micro-climate, we are on high ground and
a bit exposed on one side. I do have a division from both my I.
sibiricas ('Tropic Night' and 'Sparkling Rose'), so I suppose I could
risk leaving the parent plants a bit longer and see how they cope. Last
year, I did put a raised glass lid over that part of the raised bog bed,
because I was worried that my Primula helodoxa might not make it through
the winter without protection, so I could try that again this year.

> You might also look out for I. ensata, aka I. kaempferi, big broad
> falls like large tongues. Purples, blues and whites. Lots of stripes
> and colour variations.
>
> National collection of water irises here:
> http://www.rowdengardens.com/index.php
> browse and enjoy!
>

Ooooh! This is getting more and more exciting. Thanks so much for that
link. I shall explore it at length. I've already seen one I'm in love
with:~)) Thanks, Chris.

[Martin Brown]

On 16/08/2014 12:39, stuart noble wrote:

It is not much heavier than the water it contains in its pores so around
1kg/L maximum. By comparison gravel tends to be 2-3kg/L.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown