Flame gun - where to buy?
morello
using flame guns for allotment weed clearing/control. I've decided that,
used with care, it is a technique I would like to try.
Anyone know how much they cost and where I could purchase one? I am looking
at something like the 3 burner propane unit (NOT one of those weed wands).
Since it is little more that 3 blowtorches on a stick, I am hoping it wont'
be *that* expensive. The hire cost of 20 quid for the weekend plus gas seems
quite high, especially since ideally it would be used several times.
Regards
Tom
--
Morello Publishing Ltd
http://www.morello.co.uk
PuzzleTrack - create your own word search and crossword puzzles
Dudley Simons
Hi Tom
I think the unit you are thinking of is one intended for putting down
'hot lay' roofing felt. From memory they are pretty expensive. Try
doing a web search on Bullfinch they make just about every bottled gas
appliance you could think of. However I dont think you really want a
triple headed unit unless you want to clear a large area of rough ground
totally.
I have a couple of old parrafin flame guns - a thin one like an oversize
bike pump and a bigger one with a proper fuel tank and carry handle. I
picked them up at carboot sales for a fiver each - often see them around
Huntingdon/Cambridge area.
They work pretty well and the bigger unit produces quite an impressive
flame. You dont actually need to incinerate the weeds, you just have to
scorch them and most things are pretty dead after a couple of scorchings
a week apart. You can use them on damp or even wet foliage although it
takes a bit longer to cover a given area. You do have to be pretty
careful with them as it is all too easy to scorch plants as well as
weeds! That said mine don't have the metal guard plates on either side
of the flame head to protect surrounding plants.
Never tried a gas one, but should be much the same kind of thing with
the added luxury of being able to light it and extinguish it whenever
you want, but the disadvantage of having to lug a cylinder about.
regards
Dudley
morello
"Dudley Simons" <dudley...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:3C718927...@ntlworld.com...
> I think the unit you are thinking of is one intended for putting down
> 'hot lay' roofing felt. From memory they are pretty expensive. Try
> doing a web search on Bullfinch they make just about every bottled gas
> appliance you could think of. However I dont think you really want a
> triple headed unit unless you want to clear a large area of rough ground
> totally.
Certainly in the hire catalogue the same unit appears in the roofing section
and the groundcare section. And yes, I do have quite a large area which I
want to completely clear - apart from a small rhubarb patch the allotment is
currently empty, and I'm not planning to plant trees or bushes there (I
already have those on a second plot).
Bullfinch looks promising, although their website isn't fully functional, I
will have to phone them.
A lot depends on price, really. I'll have a look round the car boots sales
too, although it seems like a fairly obscure item to find.
Tony Kershaw
"morello" <in...@xxx.morello.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1014065805.11659....@news.demon.co.uk...
ScrewFix do a roofing flame gun. Might be in their "Big Stuff" catalogue.
Tony
Martin Brown
morello wrote:
> I've looked through Google and obviously there are mixed opinions about
> using flame guns for allotment weed clearing/control. I've decided that,
> used with care, it is a technique I would like to try.
>
> Anyone know how much they cost and where I could purchase one? I am looking
> at something like the 3 burner propane unit (NOT one of those weed wands).
>
> Since it is little more that 3 blowtorches on a stick, I am hoping it wont'
> be *that* expensive. The hire cost of 20 quid for the weekend plus gas seems
> quite high, especially since ideally it would be used several times.
Compared with buying one and then deciding it doesn't do what you want it could
be a bargain!
The big ones do at least work after a fashion, but they are not exactly user
friendly.
Regards,
Martin Brown
Cereoid*
Using a flame thrower to get rid of weeds is extremely excessive, dangerous
and inefficient.
Much more efficient, cheaper and more sane to just spray the area with
Roundup.
Besides you won't risk setting the neighborhood on fire or getting arrested
for being a crazed pyromaniac.
morello <in...@xxx.morello.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1014065805.11659....@news.demon.co.uk...
Willy Eckerslyke
> I have a couple of old parrafin flame guns - a thin one like an oversize
> bike pump and a bigger one with a proper fuel tank and carry handle. I
> picked them up at carboot sales for a fiver each - often see them around
> Huntingdon/Cambridge area.
I have one of the bigger types that I bought for a fiver after using
one on a gardening job years ago. I've never managed to get mine running
properly so wondered what the trick was. It seems a bit chicken and egg,
there's a coil of tubing around the flame that presumably heats up or
vaporises the paraffin before it's burnt, but it doesn't work until
it's hot. Is there supposed to be a wick or something?
--
Regards, Willy.
PTO
Dudley Simons
Cereoid* wrote:
> Do you want to clear weeds or are you going on a commando raid?
>
> Using a flame thrower to get rid of weeds is extremely excessive, dangerous
> and inefficient.
>
> Much more efficient, cheaper and more sane to just spray the area with
> Roundup.
>
> Besides you won't risk setting the neighborhood on fire or getting arrested
> for being a crazed pyromaniac.
snip
only as dangerous as the bloke using it!!! :o)
This is more of a giant blow torch than a flame thrower!
regards
Dudley
Dudley Simons
Willy Eckerslyke wrote:
I have to admit that lighting them and keeping them going can appear to be a
bit of a black art until you get the hang of it!
They should indeed have a 'wick'. When new there would have been a piece of
asbestos blanket or woven mat attached to the inside of the flame shoud,
tucked behind the heating coil. You were supposed to pump up the fuel tank
and open the valve to get some parrafin to flood the 'wick'. Light the
parrafin and then wait, often you might have to let out a bit more parrafin
to keep the preheat going. As the coil heats up the hot parrafin starts to
surge out in squirts which fairly quickly progess to pulses of vapour which
ignite into a roaring flame, the heat from the roaring flame them heats the
coil some more and the pulsing flame becomes continous. Whilst this has been
happening you will have pumped up the fuel tank to the recommended pressure.
Now comes the tricky bit, cracking the valve open far enought to maintain a
steady flow of parrafin to the coil but not too much other wise you loose
the roaring flame and revert to squirting jets of parrafin - its not as
difficult as it sounds once you get your eye in. Takes a couple of minutes
to get the thing going properly
I would however recommend that you start the thing up on a bit of dirt etc
with at least four or five feet of clear space in front of the burner. When
I first used mine I would get through gallons of parrafin before I realised
that although not as much fun as total cremation, scorching was all you
needed to do. They are very good for 'power hoeing between rows of veg -
especially if the gropund has become quite hard from walking on it - the
secret is to work with a partner - they walk in front with two sheets of non
flammable board - 2 or 3 foot long by eighteen inches high, they use the
boards to hold back the folliage etc and run along the ground to seal off the
plants from the flame. You can 'power hoe' at quite a speed - slow walking
speed ?! You still have to go back and hand hoe around the plants themselves
if only to keep the soil surface open so water soaks in rather than running
away from the plants.
With regard to Morellos intention to clear a large area I have to say that
despite not being keen on using weed killers I would also be inclined to
spray then burn off the vegetation once it had died back. Rotovate or dig.
You could then go in with the flame gun again and zap anything as it came
through a couple of weeks later.
regards
Dudley
Lee
Don't know if it's the same thing or not, but the "blow torches" used for
removing road markings are very effective at weed removal, without setting
the garden on fire :-)
Lee
--
"It does not pay to leave a live
dragon out of your calculations"
- Tolkien
Tony Williams
Willy Eckerslyke <ku.ca....@801sso.backwards> wrote:
> I have one of the bigger types that I bought for a fiver after using
> one on a gardening job years ago. I've never managed to get mine running
> properly so wondered what the trick was. It seems a bit chicken and egg,
> there's a coil of tubing around the flame that presumably heats up or
> vaporises the paraffin before it's burnt, but it doesn't work until
> it's hot. Is there supposed to be a wick or something?
An old-fashioned paraffin blowtorch would have
a metal cup formed around the coil. This was to
tip some meths in and do a pre-heat of the paraffin.
Perhaps the cup was missing, or the coil was so
large that it needed a blowtorch to pre-heat?
--
Tony Williams.
Willy Eckerslyke
Wow, thanks for goint to the trouble to make such a useful post.
It's a while since I even looked at the thing, but I do remember
getting squirts of flaming paraffin as you describe but didn't
know what to do to correct it. I've a feeling I just used an old
rag as a "wick" too, rather than the proper asbestos. Perhaps
fire rope would make a good substitute.
Thanks again Dudley, I'll dig it out and have another try.
--
Regards, Willy.
PTO
Willy Eckerslyke
> An old-fashioned paraffin blowtorch would have
> a metal cup formed around the coil. This was to
> tip some meths in and do a pre-heat of the paraffin.
Hmm, I'm trying to remember if there was a shallow cup.
No point speculating, I'll post again once I've had another
go with it.
Thanks Tony.
--
Regards, Willy.
PTO
George Ross
Willy Eckerslyke <ku.ca....@801sso.backwards> writes:
>I have one of the bigger types that I bought for a fiver after using
>one on a gardening job years ago. I've never managed to get mine running
>properly so wondered what the trick was. It seems a bit chicken and egg,
>there's a coil of tubing around the flame that presumably heats up or
>vaporises the paraffin before it's burnt, but it doesn't work until
>it's hot. Is there supposed to be a wick or something?
The one I've used (not recently!) came with a metal cup thing, shaped so you
could put a paraffin-soaked rag in the bottom and stand the flamethrower on
the top. Light the rag, let it heat the coil, pressurise the paraffin
reservoir, turn the knob, and hope...
Looking back, I suspect that we sometimes overfilled it. Inadequate
reservoir pressure would cause it to dribble into life, with much frantic
pumping then being needed!
--
Dr George D M Ross, Division of Informatics, University of Edinburgh
Kings Buildings, Mayfield Road, Edinburgh, Scotland, EH9 3JZ
Mail: gd...@dcs.ed.ac.uk Voice: +44 131 650 5147 Fax: +44 131 667 7209
PGP: 1024/B74A4F7D 14 E8 B3 00 20 04 68 F8 95 40 CB 36 A4 D4 FA 90
Ledswinger
news:3C72C4...@801sso.backwards...
Noooo!
The real talent is to get the timing right on this start up, and open the
flow valve for the paraffin when the heater coil is hot, but not hot enough
to vapourise the paraffin. When close to boiling it *really* burns well,
but sprays well too, giving you a very effective flamethrower with a range
of about twenty feet. Not very effective at clearing weeds, but dangerous
and immense fun.
Led
Virgin Net News
maybe a good kitchen suppliers could get one. Chefs often use a little
bottled gas flame gun for finishing off desserts etc.. Don't know if it
will work, but it is an idea as long as it is large enough for your needs.
"morello" <in...@xxx.morello.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1014065805.11659....@news.demon.co.uk...
Peter Ashby
%steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
> > Much more efficient, cheaper and more sane to just spray the area with
> > Roundup.
>
> Oh yes, just what everyone needs, more systemic chemicals in the garden.
Yes, one that is broken down in the soil and leaves no residue.
Glyphosate is an ideal weedkiller.
Peter
--
Peter Ashby
Wellcome Trust Biocentre
University of Dundee, Scotland
Reverse the Spam and remove to email me.
Dudley Simons
Willy Eckerslyke wrote:
I knew I 'd forget something - I dont have the bit of asbestos either
and rely on a hanky sized bit of cotton instead and a piece of wire to
hook the remains out if the burner gets going before the cotton has
disintegrated
If nothing else its quite a fun way of passing an hour outside on a
crisp spring morning - the sun on your face and setting fire to things,
what more can you ask for??? :o)
Dudley
Ledswinger
news:3C727B5E...@esc.cam.ac.uk...
>
> If nothing else its quite a fun way of passing an hour outside on a
> crisp spring morning - the sun on your face and setting fire to things,
> what more can you ask for??? :o)
>
Indeed. Fond memories. The look on the neighbours face as my home made
flamethrower made a large patch of our well overgrown garden go
WHHOOOOMMMFFFFF! to within about three feet of him. The satisfaction of a
good splash of liquid fire creating a small and short lived fireball. I
love the smell of paraffin in the morning.
Lucky we had no Vietnamese neighbours, I 'spose.
Led
Peter Ashby
%steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
> Anyroad up, I farm 11 acres with no chemical input. My land is in better
> condition than my neighbours.
No chemicals huh? what is your land made of then? I hope you don't allow
any of that nasty H20 chemical near it. Nasty things them chemicals
they're all over the place.
steve
"Peter Ashby" <p.r....@MAPS.dundee.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> No chemicals huh? what is your land made of then? I hope you don't allow
> any of that nasty H20 chemical near it. Nasty things them chemicals
> they're all over the place.
>
Always amuses me, this. The fact is we don't even know what half the
chemical constituents of various plant materials are, let alone their
long-term biological effects. I'm just waiting for some epidemiologist to
come along and pronounce that, yes, parsnips really *are* bad for you.
Some of the most toxic chemicals known to mankind are made naturally in
plants.
Steve
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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Peter Ashby
"steve" <steve...@CutThisBitOff.blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> "Peter Ashby" <p.r....@MAPS.dundee.ac.uk> wrote:
> >
> > No chemicals huh? what is your land made of then? I hope you don't allow
> > any of that nasty H20 chemical near it. Nasty things them chemicals
> > they're all over the place.
> >
>
> Always amuses me, this. The fact is we don't even know what half the
> chemical constituents of various plant materials are, let alone their
> long-term biological effects. I'm just waiting for some epidemiologist to
> come along and pronounce that, yes, parsnips really *are* bad for you.
I have been known to make fruit wines, old family tradition. My Dad made
parsnip wine, not bad but pretty powerful. I often wondered what sort of
chemicals you get in such brews from entirely 'natural' ingredients. I
still remember that dessert broom flower wine I made... Maybe we should
point out to people that apart from the hydrogen every atom in their
bodies was made as the result of nuclear fusion reactions. And the
difference between irradiated and radioactive.
> Some of the most toxic chemicals known to mankind are made naturally in
> plants.
Indeed, and lets not get into the toxins in many animals, particularly
in Australia. All fully natural and organic of course. People have been
known to blow their brains out because they couldn't stand the pain from
standing on a stonefish.
Martin Brown
Steve Firth wrote:
> Cereoid* <cer...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
> > Do you want to clear weeds or are you going on a commando raid?
> >
> > Using a flame thrower to get rid of weeds is extremely excessive, dangerous
> > and inefficient.
>
> It's not a flame-thrower it's a burner. It's a perfectly efficient way
> to remove weeds.
Making toxic dioxins in the process. Burning anything containing chloride always
creates some.
(but they are natural organic carcinogenic dioxins so they must be OK)
> > Much more efficient, cheaper and more sane to just spray the area with
> > Roundup.
>
> Oh yes, just what everyone needs, more systemic chemicals in the garden.
Glyphosate is pretty well harmless to mammals, but absolutely lethal to green
plants. The wetting agents used in commercial formulations are far more dangerous
to humans than the active ingredient.
It breaks down fast enough that apart from the influence of rabid enviro greens
and the Organic (TM) movement it would be recognised as the least environmentally
damaging way of killing weeds.
> > Besides you won't risk setting the neighborhood on fire or getting arrested
> > for being a crazed pyromaniac.
>
> Do you always speak in a muffled voice when you sit down?
I reckon a few casualties with dangerous flamethrowing toys would help get the
whole thing back into perspective. Fire is an inherently a dangerous tool to use.
And so are gardening chemicals, but the risks are much more tightly controlled by
strict safety legislation.
Regards,
Martin Brown
morello
news:3C72A9D0...@pandora.be...
>
> I reckon a few casualties with dangerous flamethrowing toys would help get
the
> whole thing back into perspective. Fire is an inherently a dangerous tool
to use.
> And so are gardening chemicals, but the risks are much more tightly
controlled by
> strict safety legislation.
>
Gosh there seem to be some strong opinions on this subject. And we haven't
even got onto soil structure, micro-organisms or fried frogs yet :)
Flame *gun*, not flame thrower - a blowtorch on a stick (not even a giant
blowtorch as someone suggested, just an ordinary one). Needs to be treated
with care an respect of course, but its not a weapon of mass destruction.
I tend to take a fairly pragmatic view of weedkiller, slugpellets etc. All
things being equal I think it is best to apply as little as possible, which
is one of the reasons I am interested in this technique.
OTOH, I think the produce from my allotment is better in every way than the
supermarket produce, whether I use a few chemicals or not. If those chemical
mean the difference between having a good yield or loosing everything to
pests and weeds, there is no contest.
patndave
"Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1f7v0x5.15uesn41r92esoN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...> For Monsanto maybe. Since its use is non-essential and the
half-life in
> soil can extend to 174 days with a mean of 47 days, I'd rather
live
> without it.
I am entirely with you on this subject. I just wish I could
decide which company makes which product, that you find on the
average garden centres shelves. Any one out there that can help
me reject the GM companies chemicals, and choose the proper
ones?
IMHO Monsanto should be shut down for what they are trying to do
to the countryside.
> Herbicides are crutches for the terminally lazy.
No argument then :-)
> Damn you, you've got me sounding like Duhg here.
I don't know him, but if he thinks like you do, then he must be
one of the 'good guys'.
> Anyroad up, I farm 11 acres with no chemical input. My land is
in better
> condition than my neighbours.
What do you produce and where can I buy it.
Dave
And I am definitely not a rabid green type. I just want a
choice.
patndave
> Do you always speak in a muffled voice when you sit down?
It was worth following this thread just for that pearl. :-)))
Dave
cormaic
<lee.blaver@remove_thisvirgin.net> enriched all our lives with these
words......:
>Don't know if it's the same thing or not, but the "blow torches" used for
>removing road markings are very effective at weed removal, without setting
>the garden on fire :-)
They are *so* effective because they combine lots of gas with
compressed air. And the noise is phenomenal. In a garden there would
be a real danger of blasting incredibly hot and/or burning material
here, there and everywhere, that's if you could get the rig into a
garden!!
Not recommended!
--
cormaic Garden - www.tmac.clara.co.uk/garden/
Culcheth Paving - www.pavingexpert.com/
Cheshire URG faq/webring - www.tmac.clara.co.uk/urgring/
(allegedly)
cormaic CAN BE FOUND AT borlochshall.co.uk
K
>Dudley Simons wrote:
>
>> I have a couple of old parrafin flame guns - a thin one like an oversize
>> bike pump and a bigger one with a proper fuel tank and carry handle.
latter sounds like a Sheen X300 flamegun.
This is painted red & has a horizontal cylinder fuel (paraffin) tank, a
fuel line/pipe, with a valve, extending away from the flat end of the
cylinder about 18inches which goes into the flame/jet cylinder. the
flame cylinder contains a wide wick & a coiled tube. The end of the
fuel line (inside the cylinder) is fitted with a square nut containing
the fuel jet/outlet. A hooped handle connects the fuel tank to the
flame cylinder. There is a pressure valve on top of the fuel tank.
bought mine direct a few years ago from Sheen, Greasley Road, Bulwell,
Nottingham 0115-927-2321. SFAIR price new is now c.150GBP.
They'll send you operating instructions (but see below) if you ring up
(at least they did when I lost mine), but they're quite hopeless at
advising on the phone, eg they couldn't even give a ballpark answer to
'How much ground can you clear with a fill of fuel?'.
> I
>> picked them up at carboot sales for a fiver each
bargains!
I have found it highly effective especially at clearing ground infested
with near-surface rooted weeds. It was especially good at clearing a
patch of couch grass which I had despaired of ever clearing. You may
still have to hand dig to clear the remnants of roots but that is a
doddle as there is no foliage left & the flame gun dries out & shrinks
the roots & maybe destroys the finer root airs which cling to the soil.
It also burns up seedlings & dormant seeds on the soil surface. However
the gun is not nearly so effective on deeper rooted weeds such as dock
or thistle.
All in all would strongly recommend, but it needs using with care & in
strict compliance with the operating instructions & with eyes open to
potential safety hazards. It is NOT something for children, the non-
mechanically minded or people who find tools and machines difficult to
use, nor for people who fancy trying to stretch its performance
envelope.
One big drawback is sourcing & cost of paraffin. Many garages now only
sell paraffin in 4litres pre-packs. Garages selling it 'loose' (ie take
you own can) (when it is invariably much cheaper) are now few and far
between.
>
>I have one of the bigger types that I bought for a fiver after using
>one on a gardening job years ago. I've never managed to get mine running
>properly so wondered what the trick was. It seems a bit chicken and egg,
>there's a coil of tubing around the flame that presumably heats up or
>vaporises the paraffin before it's burnt, but it doesn't work until
>it's hot. Is there supposed to be a wick or something?
Yes to wick - if yours is missing get a new wick from Sheen.
Here's how to fire up the gun:
++++++++
NB the following instructions are specific to the Sheen X300 flamegun.
If you have a different make or model consult Sheen or other maker - SEE
SAFETY NOTE ABOVE.
+++++++++
Find a suitable place to work. An open area or soil with the wind
blowing from behind. Dig out small pit (around a spade depth of soil by
2 spade widths each way) & set the gun on the ground so that the flame
cylinder projects out over the pit.
1. Unscrew the fuel jet in the flame cylinder & ensure it is clear (use
the Sheen provided tool or poke with a piece of fine wire)
2. Fill with 3litres paraffin. There is no fuel gauge - make your own
dip stick from a piece of dowelling. 3 litres is about 12cm depth of
paraffin. Do not overfill. Use PARAFFIN and ONLY paraffin.
3. Check the fuel line valve is closed then pump 3 strokes.
4. Open the valve & allow paraffin to drip out & wet the wick.
5. close the valve.
6. light wick. Either directly with a match if you dare, or use a roll
of newspaper which you can drop into the dug out pit to help maintain
the flame.
7. Wait until the gun starts to roar - make sure it is going properly
before proceeding: too long, though, & the flame will go out - then open
the valve half a turn.
So far as I can make out it works on the principle of the ram(?) jet -
like the small model boat I had decades ago which had a coiled tube & a
paraffin heater. One end of the tube went under water & air was pumped
thru the tube by the heat & the boat went round in circles however much
you tried to counter balance it.
8. pump up to 25psi. you will need to repressurise 2 or 3 times during
use. It is now ready to use.
TO SHUT DOWN:
close valve & carefully release filler cap on top of the fuel tank to
relieve the pressure. [NB do not undo the cap completely until the flame
is out]. Leave in a safe place for the flame to go out.
During use:
3 litres of paraffin should last around 30 to 45 mins.
more difficult to say how much ground you can cover in that time, but
consider a 30ft x 30 ft patch with a moderate weed cover a ballpark
estimate. the drier the ground and weeds, the more economical it is.
if the flame goes out check for a blocked nozzle jet. A high wind also
plays havock with the flame.
if the flame 'hunts' ie is not a constant sound but sounds as if it has
too much fuel one moment & then is short the next, it means the gun did
not reach operating temperature at stage 7 above before the valve was
opened.
*********
Using the gun:
The gun operates best on relatively short weeds = high stands of grass
are best cut down to 3-4 inches high by a strimmer first.
Choose a time when the ground is dry-ish & the weeds are not overly damp
[otherwise you will use excess fuel] & you also want the next 2-4 days
to be fine.
A 2 pass system works best.
Day 1 you go over the ground aiming the gun at the bottom of the weed
stems just above the ground. You are not aiming to burn the weeds -
just to kill the stems. The green in the weeds turns into a deeper
green shade at this stage.
Day 2 or 3 By this time the weeds should have flopped over & begun to
dry out. You go over the ground again burning up the dry foliage &
hopefully killing sub-surface roots & lingering seeds. After this pass
the ground should be clear & covered with the carbon debris of burnt
weeds & twigs etc.
If regrowth appears within a few days, you need to redo pass 2.
BTW if rain falls between the passes, you're back to redoing pass 1.
NB When using the gum I always have a couple of buckets of water to hand
& a rake.
--
K
The Natural Philosopher
try the old trick of lighting a fire underneath before you pressurise
it. Those old paraffin camping stoves (primus) used methylated spirits,
or solid meths pellets, to get them hot enough to vaporise...otr you
could try a propane blowtorch...
> --
> Regards, Willy.
>
> PTO
The Natural Philosopher
Cereoid* wrote:
>
> Do you want to clear weeds or are you going on a commando raid?
>
> Using a flame thrower to get rid of weeds is extremely excessive, dangerous
> and inefficient.
>
> Much more efficient, cheaper and more sane to just spray the area with
> Roundup.
>
>
Yes, but the annual weed seeds wil survive that.
Flaming the ground sterilises the seeds - well burns em up actually.
I recommend both techniques
The Natural Philosopher
Martin Brown wrote:
> Glyphosate is pretty well harmless to mammals,
Its regularly (illegaly) used to poison dogs cats and foxes on the
continet, and is definitely very dangerous to humans.
but absolutely lethal to green
> plants.
Not in the strengths they say on the tin. Use 10-100 times recommened
concentrations to be sure of killing brambles and their roots.
Used at any concentration it will destroy any valuable flower within 50
meters. Sods law.
The wetting agents used in commercial formulations are far more
dangerous
> to humans than the active ingredient.
>
> It breaks down fast enough that apart from the influence of rabid enviro greens
> and the Organic (TM) movement it would be recognised as the least environmentally
> damaging way of killing weeds.
>
It probably is, as far as chemiocals go. Flames are far nicer tho. And
don't damage enything they don't touch, or have anty effect on your
liver...or nervous system.
JK
wrote:
>
>
>Martin Brown wrote:
>
>> Glyphosate is pretty well harmless to mammals,
>
>Its regularly (illegaly) used to poison dogs cats and foxes on the
>continet, and is definitely very dangerous to humans.
Unless you are feeding those animals full strength concentrate in
significant quantities it certainly won't kill them. It would be
similar to trying to dose them with dishwashing detergent, not that
any animal would be inclined to consume either of them, fortunately.
Glyphosate is certainly not "very dangerous" to humans by any measure
of toxicology, acute, chronic or otherwise. It is a quite low
toxicity product. I'll quote the World Health Organization in their
assessment: WHO (Environmental Health Criteria 159, 1994) states the
following: "Glyphosate, administered by oral and dermal routes, has a
very low acute toxicity." "Animal studies show that glyphosate is not
carcinogenic, teratogenic or mutagenic." "Test data show low toxicity
of glyphosate and its formulations to honey bees, earthworms,
birds and mammals."
>
>but absolutely lethal to green
>> plants.
>
>Not in the strengths they say on the tin. Use 10-100 times recommened
>concentrations to be sure of killing brambles and their roots.
>
>Used at any concentration it will destroy any valuable flower within 50
>meters. Sods law.
Glyphosate does not affect plants 50, 5 or .5 meters away, unless you
apply it in an inappropriate wind and the spray is deposited there.
It should always be carefully applied of course, and with low
pressure, large droplet methods.
>
>The wetting agents used in commercial formulations are far more
>dangerous
>> to humans than the active ingredient.
>>
>> It breaks down fast enough that apart from the influence of rabid enviro greens
>> and the Organic (TM) movement it would be recognised as the least environmentally
>> damaging way of killing weeds.
>>
>
>It probably is, as far as chemiocals go. Flames are far nicer tho. And
>don't damage enything they don't touch, or have anty effect on your
>liver...or nervous system.
Using glyphosate in your garden will not have any effect on your
liver, or your nervous system for that matter. Don't confuse it with
misuse of organophosphate insecticides. Flame weeders have far higher
risks, both for the user, and for possible fires they can create.
They also cause damage to nearby plants quite readily if not very
carefully employed.
Robin Bale
>
>
> Flame *gun*, not flame thrower - a blowtorch on a stick (not even a giant
> blowtorch as someone suggested, just an ordinary one). Needs to be treated
> with care an respect of course, but its not a weapon of mass destruction.
>
Maybe you could improvise a flame gun from an old blowtorch.... and a stick!
Rob.
The Natural Philosopher
JK wrote:
>
> On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 02:12:20 +0000, The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Martin Brown wrote:
> >
> >> Glyphosate is pretty well harmless to mammals,
> >
> >Its regularly (illegaly) used to poison dogs cats and foxes on the
> >continet, and is definitely very dangerous to humans.
>
> Unless you are feeding those animals full strength concentrate in
> significant quantities it certainly won't kill them. It would be
> similar to trying to dose them with dishwashing detergent, not that
> any animal would be inclined to consume either of them, fortunately.
> Glyphosate is certainly not "very dangerous" to humans by any measure
> of toxicology, acute, chronic or otherwise. It is a quite low
> toxicity product. I'll quote the World Health Organization in their
> assessment: WHO (Environmental Health Criteria 159, 1994) states the
> following: "Glyphosate, administered by oral and dermal routes, has a
> very low acute toxicity." "Animal studies show that glyphosate is not
> carcinogenic, teratogenic or mutagenic." "Test data show low toxicity
> of glyphosate and its formulations to honey bees, earthworms,
> birds and mammals."
>
Thats why its covered in warning signs and messages, and you aren't
allowed pets in teh graden after use eh?
Sure, it kills full strength only, but its still not good stuff to have
around the place.
There have been too many cases of build up of e.g. PCB's in teh body
leading to long term damage that are highly suspect, if not causally
proven.
I use the stuff, and its magic, but I am unusually (for me) careful with
it. I guess it goes back to the time when I had sever back pain some
weeks after the field next door got sprayed. I went to the doctor awho
prodded and poked until I said 'ouch' and said 'that's my liver you are
prodding rght' 'Yup'. 'What is the problem then?'. Shrugs 'mild
unspecific infection, poison, pretty much anything that your liver is
having trouble excreting causes inflammation in some degree. call me if
it lingers.."
I leave the houe these days when they are s[raying, if teh wind is off
the field...
Janet Tweedy
a...@801sso.backwards> writes
I've got a flame gun, they're brilliant, somewhere I must have the
instructions, if I find them the layout might indicate what you are
missing! Mine also has a long thin wire which you are supposed to clean
some part with, though of which part I'm not entirely clear. However
wandering round with the thing belching out blue flames makes you feel
quite powerful in your garden :)
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk
Peter Ashby
wrote:
> Used at any concentration it will destroy any valuable flower within 50
> meters. Sods law.
Huh? Only if you apply it with dangerous carelessness. I have used it
from a small spray bottle to specifically remove dandelions from a lawn
and within a flower bed. This is far preferable to trying to dig them
out, since this not only causes greater disturbance but is guaranteed in
our soil to break the tap root and cause recurrence.
Peter Ashby
wrote:
> Thats why its covered in warning signs and messages, and you aren't
> allowed pets in teh graden after use eh?
Cue the lawyers if they don't put the warnings on. Seems they are damned
if they do and damned if they don't. There are far more dangerous things
about the house and garden than glyphosate.
> Sure, it kills full strength only, but its still not good stuff to have
> around the place.
I'm sure I could find a lot more dangerous things around your house.
> There have been too many cases of build up of e.g. PCB's in teh body
> leading to long term damage that are highly suspect, if not causally
> proven.
Ok, care to give references for the buildup of glyphosate in the body?
This randon fear of things without information and rationality both
stupid and counter productive. How are we to expect kids to take any
notice when we tell them everything is deadly or dangerous? Life in the
modern world is far safer than it has ever been, people are healthier
and live longer. Sure we can do things to make life even better but a
return to the past in both action and attitude will not help.
David Rance
TNP> Martin Brown wrote:
MB>> Glyphosate is pretty well harmless to mammals,
TNP> Its regularly (illegaly) used to poison dogs cats and foxes on the
TNP> continet, and is definitely very dangerous to humans.
Forgive me for being blunt, but that is simply not true! I suspect you must
be
thinking of another product.
But since you call yourself the "Natural Philosopher" I expect that you will
consider anything non-organic as poisonous. But I've no idea where you get
the
idea that glyphosate is used to poison cats, dogs and foxes. I spend
considerable periods of the year on the continent and can say with
conviction that that isn't true.
+----------------------------------------------------------+
| Internet: david...@rance.org.uk | writing from |
| Fidonet: David Rance 2:252/110 | Caversham, |
| BBS: ICHTHUS (Reading) +44-118-946-1466 | Reading, UK |
+----------------------------------------------------------+
Lee Blaver
> Twas Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:58:41 +0000, when Lee
> <lee.blaver@remove_thisvirgin.net> enriched all our lives with these
> words......:
>
> >Don't know if it's the same thing or not, but the "blow torches" used for
> >removing road markings are very effective at weed removal, without setting
> >the garden on fire :-)
>
> They are *so* effective because they combine lots of gas with
> compressed air. And the noise is phenomenal. In a garden there would
> be a real danger of blasting incredibly hot and/or burning material
> here, there and everywhere, that's if you could get the rig into a
> garden!!
>
> Not recommended!
>
>
They come in smaller sizes as well :-)
Next door used one to do their garden, the compressed air was in
a cylinder about the size of a scuba tank, with the gas in the other.
The whole thing was contained in a wearable harness, still quite noisy,
but -- like I said, very effective :-)
Run time didn't seem very long though, about 30 minutes was all they got out of
it,
but they'd finished doing the "weeding" and were attacking the moss on the
patio
when it ran out ...... :-)
They said they got it from a local hire shop, as a "Mini Heat Lance".
Lee
Martin Brown
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> Martin Brown wrote:
>
> > Glyphosate is pretty well harmless to mammals,
>
> Its regularly (illegaly) used to poison dogs cats and foxes on the
> continet, and is definitely very dangerous to humans.
They eat horses too !
Where did you get this useless factoid from ? Or did you simply make it up on the spot
?
It bears absolutely no relation to reality. NB I live on the continent.
ISTR there has only been one fatality - a guy whole drank a whole bottle of the
concentrate. He was eventually killed by the wetting agents (which are moderately
nasty) not by the glyphosate.
Regards,
Martin Brown
patndave
who is the
> business brain, mail to me will be directed to her.
That would be nice if I could use it in that quantity.
Unfortunately, I have a wife who turns her nose up at it, so I
buy it in much smaller quantities. She thinks it should be used
for the ear to remove wax etc :-((
Just checked, and a bottle one third that size would last longer
than it's sell by date with me. :-(
She says she doesn't like garlic!! But I feed it to her
regularly, and she has not said no to it yet. However, I think
that has something to do with not telling her I use it in the
cooking. ;-)
You must be well South of Lancashire to grow olives then.
Thanks anyway, I look forward to seeing more of your products in
the shops. A good source of un pasteurised cheese would be nice
to find around this end of the country. There are some, but not
many.
> Soon we hope to expand into pig products.
Good luck in the future, but look out for Blairites, I believe
they have got a foot in mouth problem that may spread widely
across the country, resulting in similar scenes I saw today in
Windermere and Bowness. (Lots and lots of empty, shut down
shops.)
Dave
Andy Dingley
>Anyone know how much they cost and where I could purchase one? I am looking
>at something like the 3 burner propane unit (NOT one of those weed wands).
Northern Tools - twenty quid for a single burner one.
I _don't_ recommend a 3 burner torch. The single is quite loud enough,
and it can freeze an average sized cylinder in no time.
I don't recommend Northern Tools either. They're cheap, but generally
of poor quality and their customer service is appaling. Packing an
anvil and some welding glasses in the same box, with no other
packaging, is remarkably inept ! I have one of their burners though,
and it's OK. Italian made, no regulator (goes straight on the
cylinder) and noisy as anything. You'll also need a long sparker to
light it, as you'll toast your fingers if you try and do it with
matches.
--
Smert' Spamionam
David Rance
p> At the moment, olive oil. GBP 20/750mL available via my wife
p> who is the business brain, mail to me will be directed to
p> her.
Twenty quid for a wine bottle-sized quantity???? I can buy five litres of
extra
virgin olive oil for about half that price just across the Channel in
France!
morello
news:8jl97ughtcspvu6tq...@4ax.com...
I don't know much about these things, but from what little I've read isn't
the point of the regulator to prevent frozen cylinders and toasted fingers?
Perhaps I won't bother :)
Incidentally, the three burner one from Bullfinch is just under 150 quid
(including a regulator!), plus obviously the cost of the gas to use it. As
against 30 quid to hire (including some gas), I think I will hire it.
Probably the first couple of uses will be the most beneficial, combined with
getting the plot rotovated and growing a few spuds. Hopefully by this time
next year I will be looking at something slightly more manageable.
Regards