Harbridge and draw reins
Janet & Tim Costidell
one of those is OK, what is the problem with draw reins? As a continuation
of the recent discussion on side reins, where lots of people, including
myself, don't like them, what is the general opinion on the above? Of
course both should be used by experienced riders. Just interested?
Petra Rüttiger
Janet & Tim Costidell wrote:
> I have often heard it said that a Harbridge is generally 'a good thing'.
Yuk :-)
> If
> one of those is OK, what is the problem with draw reins?
One of those is not OK and there is less wrong with Drawreins than a
Harbridge, until you add the rider...
Basically a Harbridge in its effect is Drawreins which can not be "used" by
the rider. Meaning the rider can not give or take. Which can be a blessing
or horrible, depending on the hands that hold the drawreins.
Petra
Janet & Tim Costidell
> Basically a Harbridge in its effect is Drawreins which can not be "used"
by
> the rider. Meaning the rider can not give or take. Which can be a blessing
> or horrible, depending on the hands that hold the drawreins.
Thanks. A Harbridge looks terribly 'fixed' to me. Fixing a horses' head
down between it's front legs is not something I would want to do, whereas I
cannot see what the fuss about correctly used draw reins is. (Notice -
correctly).
Petra Rüttiger
Janet & Tim Costidell wrote:
> Thanks. A Harbridge looks terribly 'fixed' to me. It is, and they tend
to reccomend it to beginners. Yuk again.
Fixing a horses' head
> , whereas I
> cannot see what the fuss about correctly used draw reins is. (Notice -
> correctly).
The fuss is because one very raely sees drawreins used correctly.
Petra
>
>
Melanie
>> I have often heard it said that a Harbridge is generally 'a good thing'.
>
>Yuk :-)
Well it's good at getting a nice underneck and a pone that's on its forehand and
stiff ... ;)
>Basically a Harbridge in its effect is Drawreins which can not be "used" by
>the rider. Meaning the rider can not give or take. Which can be a blessing
>or horrible, depending on the hands that hold the drawreins.
Best off without either ...
Melanie
Roz Holmes
"Janet & Tim Costidell" <ja...@costidelldotfreeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:b1eeno$5sb$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
> I have often heard it said that a Harbridge
Just to clarify here (am getting confuddled in my old age!!).
A harbridge has a strap that attaches to the girth, then splits in two like
a running martingale, but goes throught the bit rings then clips to fixed
points on a special set of reins.
A market harborough is a strap of leather that goes from the girth, splits
in two, & then clips straight onto the bits rings.
Am I correct?
Roz.
Janet & Tim Costidell
>
No, it's the other way round. Looking at the Robinsons catalogue now, the
Harbridge has a strap between the horses' front legs to the girth. This has
a ring, then the straps divide into two, leading to two elastic pieces
attaching straight to the bit rings. The Market Harborough is used with a
set of special reins with D rings sewn on at intervals, thus allowing the
martingale arrangement to be clipped onto the reins.
Petra Rüttiger
Janet & Tim Costidell wrote:
> No, it's the other way round.
Indeed.
>The Market Harborough is used with a
> set of special reins with D rings sewn on at intervals, thus allowing the
> martingale arrangement to be clipped onto the reins.
And THAT really is a vile piece of equipment.
Petra
~E
> >The Market Harborough is used with a
>> set of special reins with D rings sewn on at intervals, thus allowing the
>> martingale arrangement to be clipped onto the reins.
>
> And THAT really is a vile piece of equipment.
You see them pop up a lot over here in Holland... Often used by people whose
horses are too much horse for them... They take them off, and the horse falls
apart.
I think I still prefer struggling for 30 minutes for 5 minutes in which I
think WHOA! :) (like tonight, really)
~E
Melanie
>And THAT really is a vile piece of equipment.
You try sorting out something that was ridden in one as standard tack for months
and months and months.....not fun! Nice big underneck, horse completely on
forehand desperately leaning on your hands in a hope you'll hold it up and give
it something to lean on again, whopping great muscle block just behind saddle
area so that nothing passes from the front end to the back, no bum muscles, no
mouth, tense back muscles, shortened strides, etc, etc, etc. Luckily we've got
a good instructor who's also a very good rider and she's done wonders!
If I had the very last one in the world in my hands ... it'd still go on the
bonfire!
Melanie
Laura
Drawreins in unexpeiricend hands are like poking a bloke on the first date.
you got what youre after from an first glance but the groundwork and correct
education isnt there. :)
metnal note. dont go on computer post pub.
Pip and Jorj
LOVE IT laura! Fabulous comment.
PS hope that your comment doesn't mean that you have been misbehaviing ;-)
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Ally Clelland
"Laura" <la...@lauranewberry.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3e3b0dc8$0$221$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
Roz Holmes
"Pip and Jorj" <pacp...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030131202717...@mb-fv.aol.com...
> LOVE IT laura! Fabulous comment.
> PS hope that your comment doesn't mean that you have been misbehaviing ;-)
lol!!!
Actually, that's quite apt actually - I have a very hot date tonight :-D
Think I will stay of the booze (even though he's paying!!) & take Laura's
advice (for once!) lol!!!!
Roz - argh, what do I wear!!
Roz Holmes
> No, it's the other way round.
Well that's what I thought!!!!!
So, er, why were you comparing a Harbridge with Draw reins then???
Roz - phew, not going mad.
MOLLYMIMBLE
Harbridge. Teo learned to stretch his topline on the lunge very successfully
using one. As an ex racehorse, he was muscled completely upside down, with
nothing, he was hollow, with loose side reins he was hollow, with a chambon
thingy his neck arched, but he was hollow.
I found the harbridge allowed him to take the bit forwards and down, and yes it
did rather allow him to be on the forehand (which was where he was to start
with anyway) but it did let him feel he could stretch over his top, without
restricting his head 'in'. As his topline got free-er, he was able to start
using his back end more.
It didn't make him up and round no, but it was a start to learning to use his
body completely differently than how he had been asked to in the past.
Linda
Petra Rüttiger
MOLLYMIMBLE <molly...@aol.com> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag:
20030201053153...@mb-fu.aol.com...
> Jumping in, but not really replying to anyone specific. I did have a use
for a
> Harbridge. Teo learned to stretch his topline on the lunge very
successfully
Oh I don't really have a problem with it for lunging, if the horse does not
tolerate a Chambon for example.
But for Riding I am not keen on it.
Petra
Janet & Tim Costidell
> Well that's what I thought!!!!!
> So, er, why were you comparing a Harbridge with Draw reins then???
I have heard people raving about the Harbridge, but couldn't see why this
was better than draw reins, as the mere mention of draw reins can produce
gasps of horror. As I have said before, I use draw reins to lunge in, and
I'm darn sure that my horse was initially trained in them. When he was
having his bucking fits (and I lost my nerve), I would go for lessons that
began with him being lunged in the draw reins. I would then get on him, off
the lunge, pick up the drawn reins, and have instruction for 10 minutes in
them. The fact that he is wearing them alone is enough for Mango, and he
definitely knows all about them. The draw reins also made me very conscious
of my hands, and I rode better in them than without. He doesn't need them,
and I don't ride in them any more, I was just wondering why some training
aids are thought to be OK when it is not OK to admit to using draw reins.
Fiona Tyson
Roz Holmes wrote
> Roz - argh, what do I wear!!
Something to go with the blue hair? That *was* you wasn't it? :-)
Have fun, don't do anything *I* wouldn't do ;-)
Fiona
Laura
"Laura" <la...@lauranewberry.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3e3b0dc8$0$221$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
Lost Soul
Davies? I remember a AD used on a horse in point-to-point training several
years ago, and it sounds very similar to the Harbridge (if my memory serves
me correctly!)
Cheers :)
Petra Rüttiger
Lost Soul wrote
> Can anyone tell me if the Harbridge is the same as, or similar to, the
Abbot
> Davies?
Nothing like it at all. The AD is a fairly complicated looking system which
can be used in several different ways.
The Harbridge is basically the same as putting sidereins on, but instead of
attaching them to the girth at the sides you attach them to the girth
between the legs.
Petra
Carol Lambe
words 'draw reins', this would presumably be a result of the same reflex
action people exhibit when they hear just about any piece of information
from someone maybe they look up to, and they apply the expression/ advice/
information across the board - basically because they don't understand what
they've heard in the first place
Esther Young
~E <ju...@ask.me.invalid> wrote in message
news:v3lr2a7...@corp.supernews.com...
Re Market Harboroughs
> You see them pop up a lot over here in Holland... Often used by people
whose
> horses are too much horse for them... They take them off, and the horse
falls
> apart.
We used to exercise a horse for a lady who always rode in one. She was
scared of the horse and every day she would be tacking up and would say to
him 'now how naughty are you going to be today - shall I put this up one
ring or two?'.
We just used to take the damned thing off - he was so much happier.
Esther
Lost Soul
"Petra Rüttiger" wrote ...
Ah, thanks Petra :)
It was the mention of elastic bungee thing passing through the bit ring and
clipping onto D rings on the reins which reminded me of the AD. To be honest
I can't even remember where else it attached now, girth or saddle, and to
which part! but it *was* 12 years ago I saw it used and never paid that much
attention as I wasn't using it on a horse myself.
On the subject of draw reins, I agree they can be horrible in the wrong
hands. It reminds me of an experience I had 20 odd years ago (now don't
flame me anyone, as I was a clueless 14 year old then!) The guy next door
had bought a TB with colt at foot, previous flat racer. He asked me if I'd
like to ride it, knowing I was a keen horsey girl, so of course I was
thrilled at the prospect of having a horsey all to myself! Anyway, to cut a
long story short, she was a handful ... don't think she'd done any work off
track and had been put straight in foal, so I had my work cut out for me.
Some idiot suggested I use draw reins as an extra set of breaks while
hacking out and what a disaster that turned out to be! All my fault, I know
now, as I'd never used them before but we almost got ourselves killed in
traffic because she insisted on going backwards instead of forwards,
obviously trying to escape the pressure I was putting on her. Anyway, I
decided at that point to get myself an instructor and school both myself and
her and she eventually developed into a lovely riding horse. That is until
the owner decided it would be a good idea to breed from her again so I gave
her back to him and let him get on with it. Those were the days of breeding
a foal at grass as cheap as possible and sending them down the market when
weaned for what you could get! I didn't want a part of that and she wasn't a
quality mare to breed from in the first place!
Chloe
Petra Rüttiger
> > > Can anyone tell me if the Harbridge is the same as, or similar to, the
> > Abbot
> > > Davies?
> Ah, thanks Petra :)
>
> It was the mention of elastic bungee thing passing through the bit ring
and
> clipping onto D rings on the reins which reminded me of the AD.
You are now mixing three things up :-)
1) Elastic bungee, also called Neckstretcher, is an elastic bungee which is
passed from the girth through the bitrings over the poll of the horse and
back through the bitrings, then back to the girth
2) The Harbridge, which is attached to the girth, splits halfway up into
two, then clipped onto the bitrings
3) The Market Harborough, which goes from the girth through the bitrings
then clipped onto D Rings on the reins. Whilst the horse stays within the
range of movement allowed by the length of the setting the contact to the
mouth is via direct rein contact. When the horse's head-neck leaves that
range the rein contact is substituted by a "drawrein" effect from the Market
Harborough.
Hope that helps
Petra
Melanie
>basically because they don't understand what
>they've heard in the first place
Or because they've seen one too many horses going around with their snouts
pinned to their chest, their bums three miles behind them and every muscle
tense!
Melanie
Janet & Tim Costidell
True.
Roz Holmes
"Fiona Tyson" <sakw...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b1gv8k$13570m$1...@ID-121769.news.dfncis.de...
> Something to go with the blue hair? That *was* you wasn't it? :-)
I don't have blue hair anymore - don't worry!!!
> Have fun, don't do anything *I* wouldn't do ;-)
I did yes :-) & no I didn't!!!! lol.
Roz - smiling again, kinda feels weird!!
S Macran
No it's the other way around. and their action is quite different
Sue
S Macran
On 1 Feb 2003, MOLLYMIMBLE wrote:
> Jumping in, but not really replying to anyone specific. I did have a use for a
> Harbridge. Teo learned to stretch his topline on the lunge very successfully
> using one. As an ex racehorse, he was muscled completely upside down, with
> nothing, he was hollow, with loose side reins he was hollow, with a chambon
> thingy his neck arched, but he was hollow.
I lunge Alice in a harbridge and she works very well in it. Similar
action to a bungee thing. Haven't tried her in a chamabon. I want a
Pessoa training aid. Saw the one for sale on ebay
recently, didn't bid.
Sue
S Macran
On Sat, 1 Feb 2003, Petra Rüttiger wrote:
> Oh I don't really have a problem with it for lunging, if the horse does not
> tolerate a Chambon for example.
>
> But for Riding I am not keen on it.
Rode India in one a few times, must admit i ddidnopt like it, but them I
personally don't like riding in gadgets, I don't like the way they alter
the feel ie I know what the horse is supposed to feel like when it's
right and gadgets seem to interfere in that for me.
But I find it useful for lungeing.
Sue
S Macran
On Sat, 1 Feb 2003, Janet & Tim Costidell wrote:
>
> I have heard people raving about the Harbridge, but couldn't see why this
> was better than draw reins, as the mere mention of draw reins can produce
> gasps of horror.
It';s because there's lots of my little ponee people out there, who are
easily horrified. Nothing wrong with draw reins used correctly.
I've not needed them on mine but my friend schools her mare in them
sometimes. Sets them up like running reins and she knots them.
Most of the time they're lying on the neck but their there is hetr horse
need a reminder .. and she responds instantly
David Broome used to school all his horses in draw reins - nothing wrong
with their manner of going.
Sue
Petra Rüttiger
S Macran
> Nothing wrong with draw reins used correctly.
Only everyone has a different interpretation of "correctly"...
But yes, in expert hands they won't do harm. Only most experts won't need
them, or only use them exceptionally sparingly.
> David Broome used to school all his horses in draw reins - nothing wrong
> with their manner of going.
Hmm... The Showjumping "way of going" with the horse very deep, usually
quite rolled up with the highest point way behind the poll is useful, maybe
necessary for Showjumping, a Dressage rider would however argue with the
statement "Nothing wrong with their way of going" ...
Horses for courses, and David Broome is an expert, so will use them
expertly.
If you ever had to try and correct a horse which has been ridden routinely
in Drawreins, and had to try to get it to carry itself properly, working
from leg to hand and with the poll as the highest point, you'd be weary too.
Petra
Melanie
>Hmm... The Showjumping "way of going" with the horse very deep, usually
>quite rolled up with the highest point way behind the poll is useful
I've heard from a few sources that the highest point being about 3 or 4
vertebrae behind the poll can result in stretched, damaged or snapped ligaments
at that point.
Melanie
Roz Holmes
"Petra Rüttiger" <p_rut...@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:b1lifb$14gfe3$1...@ID-178188.news.dfncis.de...
> Only everyone has a different interpretation of "correctly"...
> But yes, in expert hands they won't do harm. Only most experts won't need
> them, or only use them exceptionally sparingly.
I have to say that I once found a book in the library by David Broome.
It had countless photos in it of him jumping a variety of horses in the most
ugliest contraption!!
It was a double bridle with draw reins on the snaffle rein & a tight running
martingale on the curb rein.
I have to say that I was somewhat shocked by the shear quantity of leather
tied to the horse's head by such a famous horseman!!!
Roz.
MOLLYMIMBLE
>I lunge Alice in a harbridge and she works very well in it. Similar
>action to a bungee thing. Haven't tried her in a chamabon. I want a
>Pessoa training aid. Saw the one for sale on ebay
>recently, didn't bid.
If it was the one sold last week, I got it. Hasn't arrived yet, but he's
listed another one on ebay.
Linda