Snow
Graham Harrison
snow. We tend to the view that "other places keep the roads open".
Well, I've been listening to a radio station in North Dakota (sad, isn't
it?) and they are predicting a large snowfall (yes, much more than we ever
get) and they have simply withdrawn the plows from various roads, including
interstates, closed them and they are telling everyone to stay at home.
Maybe that's a better solution.
Ret.
One thing that many people overlook when complaining that snowy countries
such as Canada fare much better in keeping their roads open, is the fact
that purchasing snow clearing equipment is very expensive.
In a country where heavy snow falls every year, it is a worthwhile expense.
In a country like the UK where (over the past 40 years or so), snowfall has
been minimal each winter, it is simply not cost effective to spend millions
on snow clearing equipment that may only be used once every blue moon.
Kev
Graham Harrison
"Ret." <xxx> wrote in message
news:YNGdnZ8qVsRHdKjW...@pipex.net...
I'm NOT complaining that North Dakota (which is after all the state
immediately south of the Canadian border) do it BETTER. I'm commenting
that they do it differently and asking whether we think it might be a better
approach for the UK.
zaax
Your expected to buy and put on snow chains as they only plough over 3"
--
---
zaax
Frustration casues accidents: allow faster traffic to overtake.
Miike G
"Ret." <xxx> wrote in message
news:YNGdnZ8qVsRHdKjW...@pipex.net...
> One thing that many people overlook when complaining that snowy countries
> such as Canada fare much better in keeping their roads open, is the fact
> that purchasing snow clearing equipment is very expensive.
>
> In a country where heavy snow falls every year, it is a worthwhile
> expense. In a country like the UK where (over the past 40 years or so),
> snowfall has been minimal each winter, it is simply not cost effective to
> spend millions on snow clearing equipment that may only be used once every
> blue moon.
The same rationale applies many canadians individually. Many invest in
snowblowers etc. A friend of mine who used to live in the sticks north of
Ontario had a tractor with a snowplough attachment. Although the tractor was
used occasionally at other times of the year, it's main use was to clear the
snow off his long drive, and the back road to the main road which was about
a quarter of a mile away. With a heavy fall it could still take some time
before the LA snowploughs got round to clearing minor roads.
Mike...
IanT
"Graham Harrison" <edward.h...@remove.btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:lPCdnS5b6oEuXqnW...@bt.com...
Global warming, which is NOT man made will help to increase temperatures.
Vicko Zoomba
> "Graham Harrison" <edward.harris...@remove.btinternet.com> wrote in message
You seem very sure that global warming is no occuring. Can I ask you
why you are so sure?
McKevvy
Ret.
Global cooling threatens disaster for humanity in the developed and
developing world alike, yet the media and the scientific consensus ignores
this peril.
The Climategate controversy revolves around whether warming has been real
and why it has not persisted - but it misses the point.
Cycles are involved, not short-term trends, and many respected scientists,
especially those in Russia and China, think that a cooling cycle is coming.
Climategate does not just demonstrate the corruption of science and
peer-review; it also demonstrates the incompetence of specialists who do not
understand planetary ecology, especially its cycles.
We're being fatally led up the wrong garden path by green businesses,
politicians, the IPCC and their computer geeks with their doctored
spreadsheets and forecasts. They need to get out more and study the real
world - not their virtual reality - because, like the asset bubbles of the
financial crisis, the global warming bubble is about to burst.
Kev
thomas
british drivers - they are the ones failing to proceed in their bmw, merc,
quattros, RR and myriad other upmarket 4X4s s with their engines screaming
and their wheels spinning whilst little old ladies in their 2 wd hatches go
past - some of it may be down to winter tires - arguable - BUT these people
actually respect the weather conditions (including higher gear/low revs) ,
they wear warm clothes, have a snack and water, spare coat in the boot,
maybe even a bit of old carpet and a spade - they do NOT go out in t shirts
hardly any fuel and actually stay at home whilst the blizzard is blowing so
the gritters can actually do their job
"Graham Harrison" <edward.h...@remove.btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:lPCdnS5b6oEuXqnW...@bt.com...
Miike G
"Ret." <xxx> wrote in message
> Climategate does not just demonstrate the corruption of science and
> peer-review; it also demonstrates the incompetence of specialists who do
> not
> understand planetary ecology, especially its cycles.
>
> We're being fatally led up the wrong garden path by green businesses,
> politicians, the IPCC and their computer geeks with their doctored
> spreadsheets and forecasts. They need to get out more and study the real
> world - not their virtual reality - because, like the asset bubbles of the
> financial crisis, the global warming bubble is about to burst.
Hardly an appropriate analogy, as the financial crisis was certainly man
made.
But, whether the earth is cooling or warming historical statistics seem to
indicate that there is little we can do about. Such periods in the past
appear to have had no man made cause. More like natural events over which we
have no control.
Mike.
Adrian C
>
> You seem very sure that global warming is no occuring. Can I ask you
> why you are so sure?
>
You've not met the Tiscali Idiot?
--
Adrian C
Dr Zoidberg
"Ret." <xxx> wrote in message
news:972dnTBED9vNC6rW...@pipex.net...
And you don't think that it's in their national interest to say that it's ok
to carry on using more energy?
>
> Climategate does not just demonstrate the corruption of science and
> peer-review; it also demonstrates the incompetence of specialists who do
> not
> understand planetary ecology, especially its cycles.
I'm curious why you aren't a well known expert in this field , given your
obvious expertise?
> We're being fatally led up the wrong garden path by green businesses,
> politicians, the IPCC and their computer geeks with their doctored
> spreadsheets and forecasts. They need to get out more and study the real
> world - not their virtual reality - because, like the asset bubbles of the
> financial crisis, the global warming bubble is about to burst.
>
>
First off , I don't think there's any chance of the widely head belief that
we are helping to cause climate change coming to an end any time soon.
Secondly , irrespective of your views on CO2 output , fossil fuels are most
definitely a finite resource so it's a very good idea to reduce their use.
The justification is different but the aims are exactly the same.
--
Alex
tim....
"Ret." <xxx> wrote in message
> Graham Harrison wrote:
>> We get annoyed about the way in which our roads are (not) maintained
>> in snow. We tend to the view that "other places keep the roads
>> open".
>> Well, I've been listening to a radio station in North Dakota (sad,
>> isn't it?) and they are predicting a large snowfall (yes, much more
>> than we ever get) and they have simply withdrawn the plows from
>> various roads, including interstates, closed them and they are
>> telling everyone to stay at home.
>> Maybe that's a better solution.
>
> One thing that many people overlook when complaining that snowy countries
> such as Canada fare much better in keeping their roads open, is the fact
> that purchasing snow clearing equipment is very expensive.
And the fact that in *every* country that get regular snowfall *every* car
owner has to bear the cost of having two sets of tyres and the aggro of
changing between them at the start/end of winter.
It's easy to complain that it's someone elses fault that the roads grind to
a halt when it snows, but I bet that if you told them that the solution
employed by every other country is to go out and spend 200 pound of their
own money on winter tyres they would soon decide that it was OK.
tim
Ret.
And, of course, in general it is not just an extra set of tyres that they
have to buy - but an extra set of wheels as well. Not many drivers want the
expense of actually changing the tyres and having them re-balanced etc - so
they have a spare set of tyres, mounted on a spare set of wheels, stored in
a corner of the garage.
I have friends who live in Northern California, up in the foothills of the
Sierra Nevada range. They have heavy snow every year and have a spare set of
wheels mounted with winter tyres for both of their vehicles. They also have
snow chains for both vehicles. On many roads in the Nevadas it is a legal
requirement to fit snowchains when snow is on the road.
Kev
Ret.
I should have made it clear that my entire response was a cut 'n paste from
the linked article and not necessarily my own personal views - although I am
undoubtedly a sceptic.
Kev
Adrian
>> It's easy to complain that it's someone elses fault that the roads
>> grind to a halt when it snows, but I bet that if you told them that the
>> solution employed by every other country is to go out and spend 200
>> pound of their own money on winter tyres they would soon decide that it
>> was OK.
> And, of course, in general it is not just an extra set of tyres that
> they have to buy - but an extra set of wheels as well. Not many drivers
> want the expense of actually changing the tyres and having them
> re-balanced etc - so they have a spare set of tyres, mounted on a spare
> set of wheels, stored in a corner of the garage.
Indeed.
So add in an extra £50 or so for a spare set of rims from a scrappy or
fleaBay. And an hour or so twice a year to swap 'em over.
Woo.
Winter tyres are cheaper than an insurance excess.
Steve Firth
> And the fact that in *every* country that get regular snowfall *every* car
> owner has to bear the cost of having two sets of tyres and the aggro of
> changing between them at the start/end of winter.
Errm where's the "aggro"? If you're a complete divot you get the tyre
fitter to do it for you. If not you simply swap all four wheels
yourself. It's hardly difficult.
Steve Firth
> Indeed.
>
> So add in an extra �50 or so for a spare set of rims from a scrappy or
> fleaBay. And an hour or so twice a year to swap 'em over.
>
> Woo.
>
> Winter tyres are cheaper than an insurance excess.
Exactly, but the divotswho rattle on about "safe driving" simply have to
prove over and over again that they don't know the first thing about
safe driving. As witness Ex-Inspector Kevin who rants on about
irrelevant measures or safety while fitting his car with Teflon tyres
and moaning about the potential cost of buying for decent winter tyres.
It's not even as if there was a real saving involved in *not* buying
winter tyres. OK, one has to buy four cheap rims and four tyres. However
the summer tyres won't be wearing themselves out while they are in the
garage and the winter/summer combination should last about the same
length of time as buying two sets of summer tyres. For <gasp> about the
same price as two sets of summer tyres.
False economy placed before safety by our resident safety nazi. Again.
Martin
news:1jbg6zz.1ge78u3ytpbofN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
> Adrian <tooma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Indeed.
>>
>> So add in an extra �50 or so for a spare set of rims from a scrappy or
>> fleaBay. And an hour or so twice a year to swap 'em over.
>>
>> Woo.
>>
>> Winter tyres are cheaper than an insurance excess.
>
> Exactly, but the divotswho rattle on about "safe driving" simply have to
> prove over and over again that they don't know the first thing about
> safe driving. As witness Ex-Inspector Kevin who rants on about
> irrelevant measures or safety while fitting his car with Teflon tyres
> and moaning about the potential cost of buying for decent winter tyres.
>
> It's not even as if there was a real saving involved in *not* buying
> winter tyres. OK, one has to buy four cheap rims and four tyres.
You can probably manage with just *two* winter tyres and wheels for the
driving wheels. The problem I've had has been getting stuck on slopes, not
losing control on level roads because I always drive at a slow enough speed
that I can control any slight sideways slippage that remains. So I just need
the extra bit of traction that winter tyres would give me.
Adrian
saying:
>> It's not even as if there was a real saving involved in *not* buying
>> winter tyres. OK, one has to buy four cheap rims and four tyres.
> You can probably manage with just *two* winter tyres and wheels for the
> driving wheels.
Depends. If all you want to do is travel in a straight line, yes.
If you actually want to be able to turn corners, you want four.
Martin
news:7psn73...@mid.individual.net...
Every front wheel drive car that I have driven (*) has exhibited front wheel
skid (turn the steering wheel and the car carries on going straight ahead)
long before it's experienced rear wheel skid (+). So extra grip on the front
steering/driving wheels is worth a lot more than extra grip on the rear
wheels.
But I agree that four winter tyres will be better than two - the only
question is whether they will be *significantly* better to justify the cost
of two more wheels and tyres.
(*) 2x Renault 5, 2* VW Golf, 2* Peugeot 306, 1x Peugeot 308
(+) In normal driving, as opposed to trying deliberately to provoke a skid
(where it's safe to do so) in order to have a bit of fun
Adrian
saying:
>>>> It's not even as if there was a real saving involved in *not* buying
>>>> winter tyres. OK, one has to buy four cheap rims and four tyres.
>>> You can probably manage with just *two* winter tyres and wheels for
>>> the driving wheels.
>> Depends. If all you want to do is travel in a straight line, yes.
>>
>> If you actually want to be able to turn corners, you want four.
> Every front wheel drive car that I have driven (*) has exhibited front
> wheel skid (turn the steering wheel and the car carries on going
> straight ahead) long before it's experienced rear wheel skid (+).
Since you don't appear to understand the terms "understeer" and
"oversteer", I think we have a fairly good frame of reference for the
quality of your advice.
> So extra grip on the front steering/driving wheels is worth a lot more
> than extra grip on the rear wheels.
We're not talking about _extra_ grip. We're talking about _some_ grip.
> But I agree that four winter tyres will be better than two - the only
> question is whether they will be *significantly* better to justify the
> cost of two more wheels and tyres.
They will be.
Martin
> "Martin" <m...@privacy.net> gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
> saying:
>
>>>>> It's not even as if there was a real saving involved in *not* buying
>>>>> winter tyres. OK, one has to buy four cheap rims and four tyres.
>
>>>> You can probably manage with just *two* winter tyres and wheels for
>>>> the driving wheels.
>
>>> Depends. If all you want to do is travel in a straight line, yes.
>>>
>>> If you actually want to be able to turn corners, you want four.
>
>> Every front wheel drive car that I have driven (*) has exhibited front
>> wheel skid (turn the steering wheel and the car carries on going
>> straight ahead) long before it's experienced rear wheel skid (+).
>
> Since you don't appear to understand the terms "understeer" and
> "oversteer", I think we have a fairly good frame of reference for the
> quality of your advice.
I know that understeer is when the car turns in a circle whose radius that
is larger than the angle of the steering wheels would suggest (in the
extreme case the car carries on in a straight line) and oversteer is when it
turns in a circle of a smaller radius that the angle of the steering wheels.
At risk of oversimplifying, understeer happens when the front wheels lose
grip before the rear wheels and oversteer is when the rear wheels lose grip
before the front.
In normal driving, I have almost never experienced a rear-wheel skid whereas
I have occasionally experienced a front wheel skid.
tim....
But it IS time consuming.
tim
>
Adrian
they were saying:
> But it IS time consuming.
How much time have you spent on Usenet lately?
Steve Firth
> > Errm where's the "aggro"? If you're a complete divot you get the tyre
> > fitter to do it for you. If not you simply swap all four wheels
> > yourself. It's hardly difficult.
>
> But it IS time consuming.
Only if you have an attention span measured in milliseconds, and of
course if you are the sort of person who thinks that one's death is much
less important than saving five minutes on essential maintenance in
order to play a computer game for five minutes longer.
If you really, really, feel that time spent keeping your car safe is
time wasted, take the bus next time.
Martin
news:7pspcm...@mid.individual.net...
A few months ago I exhanged the front and rear tyres of my car (without
swapping left and right, which is a Bad Idea). This involved six changes:
- NSF off, spare on
- NSR off, old NSF on
- NSF (spare) off, old NSR on
- OSF off, spare on
- OSR off, old OSF on
- OSF (spare) off, old OSR on
(NSF = nearside front, etc)
This was using the manufacturer's parallelogram screw jack, not a
quick-acting hydraulic jack.
I completed the change in 22 minutes (I was timing myself!). Mind you, I
ended up with skinned knuckles because the jack has too little ground
clearance when the wheel is on the ground to allow the crank handle to turn
without hitting the ground :-(
tim....
I wasn't talking about me. I was talking about the plebs
tim
tim....
It's warm and dry in my "office"
tim
Adrian
they were saying:
>>> But it IS time consuming.
>> How much time have you spent on Usenet lately?
> It's warm and dry in my "office"
<shrug> If you only ever go out when it's "warm and dry", then you really
don't need to consider winter tyres, do you?
Ret.
> "Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1jbg6zz.1ge78u3ytpbofN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
>> Adrian <tooma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Indeed.
>>>
>>> So add in an extra �50 or so for a spare set of rims from a scrappy
>>> or fleaBay. And an hour or so twice a year to swap 'em over.
>>>
>>> Woo.
>>>
>>> Winter tyres are cheaper than an insurance excess.
>>
>> Exactly, but the divotswho rattle on about "safe driving" simply
>> have to prove over and over again that they don't know the first
>> thing about safe driving. As witness Ex-Inspector Kevin who rants on
>> about irrelevant measures or safety while fitting his car with
>> Teflon tyres and moaning about the potential cost of buying for
>> decent winter tyres. It's not even as if there was a real saving involved
>> in *not* buying
>> winter tyres. OK, one has to buy four cheap rims and four tyres.
I have not had the slightest problem this year (or any year) with not having
winter tyres. Tell me - how many police forces change the tyres on their
police vehicles in winter?
Kev
Ret.
And for most drivers - totally unnecessary. If I had ever had problems in
winter in relation to not having winter tyres fitted, I may consider the
purchase necessary. I haven't - and so I don't.
Kev
tim....
you would be right.
I have no journeys that I need to make by car when it's snowing, so I just
don't go.
tim
Ret.
The major cause of winter time accidents in the UK is ice - and winter tyres
are no more effective on ice than are 'all season' tyres (unless they are
studded - and studded tyres would be totally unsuitable for uk winter
conditions). Whilst I can accept that for a tiny minority of drivers (those
who live in extreme rural areas and who may have to negotiate rarely used
tracks covered in deep snow) winter tyres may be of benefit - for the vast
majority of 'urban' drivers - they are a waste of money.
I first ventured onto the road on motorised transport on my 16th birthday,
and have been driving for almost 47 years now. I have never used winter
tyres and have never ever been stranded or had to abandon my car during
winter conditions. I drove police cars for 30 years - and they were never
fitted with winter tyres in the winter either - and I was never unable to
proceed, or had to abandon a police car either.
Kev
Bod
My youngest son got stranded on the M40 last week. It was 8" of snow
around the High Wycombe area. He had no choice, simply because the
motorway was gridlocked, so he had to walk home and pick up his van the
next day. Took him two and a half hours to walk home that night.
Bod
Ret.
Fair enough - but such conditions are extremely rare in the UK, and to
purchase a separate set of wheels and tyres 'just in case' is still a waste
of money IMO. In any case - if the motorway was gridlocked it wouldn't have
made any difference *what* tyres he had on his car would it?
Kev
Bod
Agreed.
Bod
Steve Firth
> Fair enough - but such conditions are extremely rare in the UK, and to
> purchase a separate set of wheels and tyres 'just in case' is still a waste
> of money IMO. In any case - if the motorway was gridlocked it wouldn't have
> made any difference *what* tyres he had on his car would it?
"As witness Ex-Inspector Kevin who rants on about irrelevant measures or
Bod
But like you, I have never had to abandon a vehicle in the snow, in 45 yrs.
Bod
Harry Bloomfield
> I have not had the slightest problem this year (or any year) with not having
> winter tyres. Tell me - how many police forces change the tyres on their
> police vehicles in winter?
Exactly!
They give a marginal improvement in grip, but only providing there is
something to grip - as in loose snow. Loose snow does not remain in
that condition for very long on most UK roads, it quickly becomes hard
compacted snow and the only thing which gives grip on that is tyre
studs or grit.
I am on the roads most days and quite often at unsociable hours, in
some terrible weather conditions. Never, ever have I got myself stuck,
or felt the need for winter tyres.
--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk
Adrian
> The major cause of winter time accidents in the UK is
fuckwittery
> - and winter tyres are no more effective on ice than are 'all season'
> tyres
We don't typically use "all season" tyres in the UK. They're different to
the tyres we typically buy, which other countries call "summer tyres".
Adrian
they were saying:
>>>>> But it IS time consuming.
>>>> How much time have you spent on Usenet lately?
>>> It's warm and dry in my "office"
>> <shrug> If you only ever go out when it's "warm and dry", then you
>> really don't need to consider winter tyres, do you?
> you would be right.
>
> I have no journeys that I need to make by car when it's snowing, so I
> just don't go.
Congratulations. If you lived here, you'd just have spent a week in the
house.
There is still snow and ice on the road and pavement here. There is a
tube station at the end of my road, and a choice of M25 junctions barely
a mile away.
Steve Firth
>
> I am on the roads most days and quite often at unsociable hours, in
> some terrible weather conditions. Never, ever have I got myself stuck,
> or felt the need for winter tyres.
Yes and you are, quite simply, a shit driver. As your "anecdotes" about
driving which show you to be at fault in almost every single example
amply demonstrate.
Steve Firth
> > I have no journeys that I need to make by car when it's snowing, so I
> > just don't go.
>
> Congratulations. If you lived here, you'd just have spent a week in the
> house.
If he lived down here in Hampshire he'd either (a) have sat at home or
(b) have spent a couple of nights in a hotel or (c) spent at least one
night shivering in his car.
Like all the other muppets.
Steve Firth
> "Ret." <xxx> gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:
>
> > The major cause of winter time accidents in the UK is
>
> fuckwittery
Well said.
> > - and winter tyres are no more effective on ice than are 'all season'
> > tyres
>
> We don't typically use "all season" tyres in the UK. They're different to
> the tyres we typically buy, which other countries call "summer tyres".
It was said, more or less accurately that the benefit that 4x4 owners
have in the winter is that many of the vehicles are supplied on
intermediate (by which I assume they mean AT) tyres by the
manufacturers. However I've noticed that on many 4x4s the owners change
the ATs for road pattern (summer) tyres. Presumably they do this to keep
the noise down a bit and to permit driving at higher speeds. Although
the M&S tyres I use in winter are rated up to 100mph so I can't see why
anyone would be wanting faster in winter.
I remain <boggled> at the comments made by someone who considers himself
to be a driving god about tyres. His sole consideration seems to be the
price tag.
Adrian
they were saying:
>> > The major cause of winter time accidents in the UK is
>> fuckwittery
> Well said.
I'm not sure "winter time" is particularly relevant, though.
>> > - and winter tyres are no more effective on ice than are 'all season'
>> > tyres
>> We don't typically use "all season" tyres in the UK. They're different
>> to the tyres we typically buy, which other countries call "summer
>> tyres".
> It was said, more or less accurately that the benefit that 4x4 owners
> have in the winter is that many of the vehicles are supplied on
> intermediate (by which I assume they mean AT) tyres by the
> manufacturers. However I've noticed that on many 4x4s the owners change
> the ATs for road pattern (summer) tyres. Presumably they do this to keep
> the noise down a bit and to permit driving at higher speeds. Although
> the M&S tyres I use in winter are rated up to 100mph so I can't see why
> anyone would be wanting faster in winter.
A quick google recently suggested that damn near every tyre in 4x4 sizes
- even the 22" pimp-sizes - are actually M&S rated. Sure, the tread
pattern is a factor, but the rubber compound is the main difference.
The Vredesteins on the Saab are MUCH grippier on dry tarmac than my
normal Michelins once the daytime ambient's down into the low single
figures.
> I remain <boggled> at the comments made by someone who considers himself
> to be a driving god about tyres. His sole consideration seems to be the
> price tag.
Yes, well, we already knew that.
Ret.
Firth's comment is utterly untrue. If my sole consideration was the price
tag I would merely go into the nearest tyre dealer and ask for the cheapest
tyre they did - and probably end up with rubbish Wanlis. In fact I do
research before I buy anything. I currently have Federal tyres on my car and
they are proving to be excellent. Extremely quiet and very grippy. Within a
week of buying them I deliberately pushed them hard on (quiet) wet
roundabouts etc. and carried out emergency stops on wet roads - and there is
no problem with them at all.
Seems to me that Firth is the Victoria Beckham of motoring - if the tyre
doesn't have a 'designer label' on the sidewall, then it's rubbish. There is
a difference between being savvy about expenditure and wasting money
unnecessarily. No-one is stopping you from fitting top-price tyres if you
wish - but to try and claim that any tyre that does not have a 'famous
brand' name on the side wall is dangerous is utter nonsense.
I repeat that in almost 47 years of motoring, and often fitting mid-price
tyres, I have never had a problem. Also, in the same period, I have never
fitted winter tyres and never been stranded or prevented from proceeding on
my journey. If you feel that winter tyres are so essential you will have to
explain why the emergency services don't feel the need to replace their
normal everyday tyres each winter.
Kev
Bod
> Firth's comment is utterly untrue. If my sole consideration was the
> price tag I would merely go into the nearest tyre dealer and ask for the
> cheapest tyre they did - and probably end up with rubbish Wanlis. In
> fact I do research before I buy anything. I currently have Federal tyres
> on my car and they are proving to be excellent. Extremely quiet and very
> grippy. Within a week of buying them I deliberately pushed them hard on
> (quiet) wet roundabouts etc. and carried out emergency stops on wet
> roads - and there is no problem with them at all.
>
> Seems to me that Firth is the Victoria Beckham of motoring - if the tyre
> doesn't have a 'designer label' on the sidewall, then it's rubbish.
> There is a difference between being savvy about expenditure and wasting
> money unnecessarily. No-one is stopping you from fitting top-price tyres
> if you wish - but to try and claim that any tyre that does not have a
> 'famous brand' name on the side wall is dangerous is utter nonsense.
>
> I repeat that in almost 47 years of motoring, and often fitting
> mid-price tyres, I have never had a problem. Also, in the same period, I
> have never fitted winter tyres and never been stranded or prevented from
> proceeding on my journey. If you feel that winter tyres are so
> essential you will have to explain why the emergency services don't feel
> the need to replace their normal everyday tyres each winter.
>
> Kev
>
>
Ret! how dare you question (Filth) the all knowing/never wrong God
of motoring!
Bod
Adrian
>>> I remain <boggled> at the comments made by someone who considers
>>> himself to be a driving god about tyres. His sole consideration seems
>>> to be the price tag.
>> Yes, well, we already knew that.
> Firth's comment is utterly untrue.
Bollocks. It's bang on the money.
> If my sole consideration was the price tag I would merely go into the
> nearest tyre dealer and ask for the cheapest tyre they did - and
> probably end up with rubbish Wanlis.
Or rubbish Camacs or Federals or similar off-brand shit.
> In fact I do research before I buy anything.
Ah, yes, Mr. "I don't buy it until I've read the Which? magazine
comparison test". Even socks.
> I currently have Federal tyres
Bwahahahahahahahahah
> Seems to me that Firth is the Victoria Beckham of motoring - if the tyre
> doesn't have a 'designer label' on the sidewall, then it's rubbish.
> There is a difference between being savvy about expenditure and wasting
> money unnecessarily. No-one is stopping you from fitting top-price tyres
> if you wish - but to try and claim that any tyre that does not have a
> 'famous brand' name on the side wall is dangerous is utter nonsense.
No, it's experience.
> If you feel that winter tyres are so essential you will have to explain
> why the emergency services don't feel the need to replace their normal
> everyday tyres each winter.
You mean other than them mainly using 4x4s - with M&S rated tyres - for
rural work in winter?
Oh, yes, this is why...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/8427599.stm
Steve Firth
> > If you feel that winter tyres are so essential you will have to explain
> > why the emergency services don't feel the need to replace their normal
> > everyday tyres each winter.
>
> You mean other than them mainly using 4x4s - with M&S rated tyres - for
> rural work in winter?
>
> Oh, yes, this is why...
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/8427599.stm
Or this:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/yhtlhnu
And over my years of driving I have seen police vehicles crashed in
conditions that didn't seem to warrant the crash if one had been driving
sensibly on proper tyres. I've also posted here in the past about when
the local plod force bought themselves a modern Jap 4x4 to patrol the
country lanes. I used to get called at regular intervals to tow that car
off the lane behind my house because it couldn't make it along the
length of the lane if it was even slightly moist or snowing.
That was almost entirely down to the poor choice of tyres and my SIII
Land Rover with Avons never had a problem, not even when towing 2.5
tonnes of immobilised JapScrap.
Ret.
> "Ret." <xxx> gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:
>
>>>> I remain <boggled> at the comments made by someone who considers
>>>> himself to be a driving god about tyres. His sole consideration
>>>> seems to be the price tag.
>
>>> Yes, well, we already knew that.
>
>> Firth's comment is utterly untrue.
>
> Bollocks. It's bang on the money.
If he's right - then why have I not got the cheapest tyres available on my
car?
>
>> If my sole consideration was the price tag I would merely go into the
>> nearest tyre dealer and ask for the cheapest tyre they did - and
>> probably end up with rubbish Wanlis.
>
> Or rubbish Camacs or Federals or similar off-brand shit.
You're talking nonsense Adrian. Many many thousands of motorists are driving
around on budget tyres - without problem. When we were discussing the issue
of tyres recently I pointed out that when Which? tested green 'eco' cars
they found that because they were fitted with skinnier tyres than the
standard cars they had a much worse braking distance. So are you claiming
that all these green cars are dangerous and that the manufacturers are
criminally irresponsible for producing them?
Look at any tyre comparison test and you will find that even amongst top
brand tyres their characteristics vary considerably. A particular Michelin
may be very good in the wet - but average in the dry whereas a similar
Goodyear may be just the opposite. So how much research do you do before you
buy a tyre - and what characteristic do you favour?
On yet another point - if you consider that safety is such a major issue,
why are you driving an ancient heap that does not have multiple air-bags and
does not have Adaptive Stability Technology built in? Surely money is not an
issue when safety is paramount? There is no doubt that the cars of today are
considerably safer in many ways than the cars produced when yours was - so
why are you risking your life and the lives of your passengers by driving a
car that is less safe than the current offerings?
>
>> In fact I do research before I buy anything.
>
> Ah, yes, Mr. "I don't buy it until I've read the Which? magazine
> comparison test". Even socks.
Now you're being stupid.
>
>> I currently have Federal tyres
>
> Bwahahahahahahahahah
Well that's a sensible response. Take a look at the average scores (of 59
reviews) for the FD1 here:
http://www.tyretest.com/pkw_sommerreifen/federal/formoza_fd1/index.html
>
>> Seems to me that Firth is the Victoria Beckham of motoring - if the
>> tyre doesn't have a 'designer label' on the sidewall, then it's
>> rubbish. There is a difference between being savvy about expenditure
>> and wasting money unnecessarily. No-one is stopping you from fitting
>> top-price tyres if you wish - but to try and claim that any tyre
>> that does not have a 'famous brand' name on the side wall is
>> dangerous is utter nonsense.
>
> No, it's experience.
His experience, and your experience, is no more valid than my experience -
and almost 47 years on the road has taught me that you don't need to pay top
wack to get good tyres.
>
>> If you feel that winter tyres are so essential you will have to
>> explain why the emergency services don't feel the need to replace
>> their normal everyday tyres each winter.
>
> You mean other than them mainly using 4x4s - with M&S rated tyres -
> for rural work in winter?
Very few panda cars and traffic cars are 4x4s - but I'm glad to see you
acknowledge that winter tyres are only really necessary in rural areas that
are not gritted and plowed to the same extent as urban areas.
>
> Oh, yes, this is why...
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/8427599.stm
You may have missed the reference to 'sheet ice'. Winter tyres would not
have made a ha'porth of difference to that incident - and you know it.
Kev
Steve Firth
> Many many thousands of motorists are driving
> around on budget tyres - without problem.
Oh right, that's why the route to my home was blocked by vehicles unable
to make progress in light snow. <rolls eyes>
tim....
> Adrian <tooma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > I have no journeys that I need to make by car when it's snowing, so I
>> > just don't go.
>>
>> Congratulations. If you lived here, you'd just have spent a week in the
>> house.
>
> If he lived down here in Hampshire
actually I do.
> he'd either (a) have sat at home or
I went elsewhere for Christmas where the snow was even worst then here (for
two days)
But I don't recall a day last week when the trains didn't run because of the
snow. Delayed maybe, but completely cancelled no.
Even so, when I am at home, everything that I need on such occasions I can
walk to. It's part of the process of deciding where to live.
tim
Elder
says...
> You're talking nonsense Adrian. Many many thousands of motorists are driving
> around on budget tyres
>
or on mobile phones and don't crash. But we don't consider that
acceptable. So why should budget tyres be?
--
Carl Robson
Get cashback on your purchases
Topcashback http://www.TopCashBack.co.uk/skraggy_uk/ref/index.htm
Greasypalm http://www.greasypalm.co.uk/r/?l=1006553
Steve Firth
> But I don't recall a day last week when the trains didn't run because of the
> snow. Delayed maybe, but completely cancelled no.
You must have missed the news then.
And errm what is the relevance of the trains to driving? I suppose that
if I point out that most of the population of Hampshire couldn't get as
far as a railway station on Monday last week that it will be lost on
you.
tim....
But I could. So I wouldn't be stuck at home, would I?
tim
Steve Firth
You still seem to be unable to make that connection between trains and
driving. Would you like to try again?
Adrian
> You're talking nonsense Adrian. Many many thousands of motorists are
> driving around on budget tyres
Very true. There are a lot of fucking idiots trying to cut corners on
what is a VERY small percentage of the total running cost of their car.
> - without problem.
99.9% of the time, true. But then some other fucking idiot will do
something stupid, and they'll run out of grip FAR earlier than they
otherwise would.
> When we were discussing the issue of tyres recently I pointed out that
> when Which? tested green 'eco' cars they found that because they were
> fitted with skinnier tyres than the standard cars they had a much worse
> braking distance. So are you claiming that all these green cars are
> dangerous and that the manufacturers are criminally irresponsible for
> producing them?
I'm suggesting that compromising that braking distance even further,
solely to save a tiny fraction of a penny per mile is brain-dead.
> On yet another point - if you consider that safety is such a major
> issue, why are you driving an ancient heap that does not have multiple
> air-bags and does not have Adaptive Stability Technology built in?
Because I'd rather AVOID a collision, thanks. Oh, and because it's a
conscious decision in full awareness of the situation. I'm happy to trade
off a very small amount of ultimate survivability for driving a very
competent, very entertaining car that has excellent vision and excellent
collision avoidability.
>> You mean other than them mainly using 4x4s - with M&S rated tyres - for
>> rural work in winter?
> Very few panda cars and traffic cars are 4x4s - but I'm glad to see you
> acknowledge that winter tyres are only really necessary in rural areas
> that are not gritted and plowed to the same extent as urban areas.
No. Again, you seem to be completely ignoring the _real_ importance.
Ultimate grip. Not the portion of the tyre's capabilities that you use
all the time. I use a different portion of the capabilities to you.
That's why you're happy with second-rate shite, whilst I notice the
difference. Three guesses what'll happen when the limit is required
suddenly?
>> Oh, yes, this is why...
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/8427599.stm
> You may have missed the reference to 'sheet ice'. Winter tyres would
> not have made a ha'porth of difference to that incident - and you know
> it.
Again, you miss the point. Perhaps you're right, and once the fucking
idiot started to descend he'd have been doomed on anything short of
studs. I wasn't there. Nor were you. But I DO know that a little more
grip _might_ have made a difference.
However, what YOU seem to be missing is the fact that in the week before
Xmas, I was quite happily been driving around on surfaces that I can
barely stand on, without any wheelspin or brake locking - including up
and down hills.
Again, you seem to be - deliberately - missing the undeniable fact that
there IS noticable grip difference, even on dry tarmac, between winter
tyres and summer ones.
Or are you calling me a liar? If so, please have the bollocks to actually
do so in so many words, instead of continuing to hint it.
I'm talking from direct, personal, recent experience. You are talking
from...?
Steve Firth
>
> I'm talking from direct, personal, recent experience. You are talking
> from...?
I think with Kevin it's a seat of the pants thing.
Ret.
> "Ret." <xxx> gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:
>
>> You're talking nonsense Adrian. Many many thousands of motorists are
>> driving around on budget tyres
>
> Very true. There are a lot of fucking idiots trying to cut corners on
> what is a VERY small percentage of the total running cost of their
> car.
>
>> - without problem.
>
> 99.9% of the time, true. But then some other fucking idiot will do
> something stupid, and they'll run out of grip FAR earlier than they
> otherwise would.
But so long as they have left sufficient distance between them and FI, it
wont be a problem will it? Of course there's the other issue that as you
stop on a sixpence with your super expensive tyres - the bloke behind on
Wanlis, who may not have left sufficient distance, will smash into the back
of you and give you whip-lash!
>
>> When we were discussing the issue of tyres recently I pointed out
>> that when Which? tested green 'eco' cars they found that because
>> they were fitted with skinnier tyres than the standard cars they had
>> a much worse braking distance. So are you claiming that all these
>> green cars are dangerous and that the manufacturers are criminally
>> irresponsible for producing them?
>
> I'm suggesting that compromising that braking distance even further,
> solely to save a tiny fraction of a penny per mile is brain-dead.
You are avoiding the point. The green eco car on top brand but skinny tyres
may well have the same braking distance as another car on standard budget
tyres. If you are alleging that the budget tyres are dangerous - then so
must the eco cars on skinny tyres.
>
>> On yet another point - if you consider that safety is such a major
>> issue, why are you driving an ancient heap that does not have
>> multiple air-bags and does not have Adaptive Stability Technology
>> built in?
>
> Because I'd rather AVOID a collision, thanks. Oh, and because it's a
> conscious decision in full awareness of the situation. I'm happy to
> trade off a very small amount of ultimate survivability for driving a
> very competent, very entertaining car that has excellent vision and
> excellent collision avoidability.
So, in other words, you have chosen to make a choice and will continue
driving a car that you know is less safe than a more modern car.
>
>>> You mean other than them mainly using 4x4s - with M&S rated tyres -
>>> for rural work in winter?
>
>> Very few panda cars and traffic cars are 4x4s - but I'm glad to see
>> you acknowledge that winter tyres are only really necessary in rural
>> areas that are not gritted and plowed to the same extent as urban
>> areas.
>
> No. Again, you seem to be completely ignoring the _real_ importance.
> Ultimate grip. Not the portion of the tyre's capabilities that you use
> all the time. I use a different portion of the capabilities to you.
> That's why you're happy with second-rate shite, whilst I notice the
> difference. Three guesses what'll happen when the limit is required
> suddenly?
As I have already stated - I took the opportunity within a matter of days of
buying my Federals of putting them to the test and pushing them hard. They
passed.
>
>>> Oh, yes, this is why...
>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/8427599.stm
>
>> You may have missed the reference to 'sheet ice'. Winter tyres would
>> not have made a ha'porth of difference to that incident - and you
>> know it.
>
> Again, you miss the point. Perhaps you're right, and once the fucking
> idiot started to descend he'd have been doomed on anything short of
> studs. I wasn't there. Nor were you. But I DO know that a little more
> grip _might_ have made a difference.
Possibly - but I still maintain that on ice, short of studded tyres, there
would have been no difference.
>
> However, what YOU seem to be missing is the fact that in the week
> before Xmas, I was quite happily been driving around on surfaces that
> I can barely stand on, without any wheelspin or brake locking -
> including up and down hills.
I didn't have any problems either.
>
> Again, you seem to be - deliberately - missing the undeniable fact
> that there IS noticable grip difference, even on dry tarmac, between
> winter tyres and summer ones.
And also between different brands of summer tyres and different brands of
winter tyres. How do you know you've got the best?
>
> Or are you calling me a liar? If so, please have the bollocks to
> actually do so in so many words, instead of continuing to hint it.
>
> I'm talking from direct, personal, recent experience. You are talking
> from...?
No, I'm not calling you a liar Adrian - and I'm quite happy to acknowledge
that in deep snow winter tyres will do a better job. The fact remains that I
cannot remember when I was last required to drive on deep snow and
therefore, had I bought a set of winter tyres and wheels - it would have
been a complete and utter waste of money.
Kev
Adrian
>> However, what YOU seem to be missing is the fact that in the week
>> before Xmas, I was quite happily been driving around on surfaces that I
>> can barely stand on, without any wheelspin or brake locking - including
>> up and down hills.
> I didn't have any problems either.
You most certainly would've on some of the roads I was cheerfully using.
>> Or are you calling me a liar? If so, please have the bollocks to
>> actually do so in so many words, instead of continuing to hint it.
>>
>> I'm talking from direct, personal, recent experience. You are talking
>> from...?
> No, I'm not calling you a liar Adrian - and I'm quite happy to
> acknowledge that in deep snow winter tyres will do a better job. The
> fact remains that I cannot remember when I was last required to drive on
> deep snow and therefore, had I bought a set of winter tyres and wheels -
> it would have been a complete and utter waste of money.
Well, that's as close as we're likely to get to an admission that you
just haven't bothered reading or understanding what you've just replied
to.
tim....
No,the mistake was yours.
You claimed that I would have the choice of staying in for two days or risk
being stuck overnight in my car.
I don't just have this choice. I also have the choice of walking to the
station and catching a train.
Such a suggestion may be OT for the group but it reasonably counters your
previous argument IMHO.
tim
Steve Firth
>
> >
> > You still seem to be unable to make that connection between trains and
> > driving. Would you like to try again?
>
> No,the mistake was yours.
>
> You claimed that I would have the choice of staying in for two days or risk
> being stuck overnight in my car.
Indeed.
> I don't just have this choice. I also have the choice of walking to the
> station and catching a train.
Umm, so what? You're now talkign about something else. I didn't for
example state that you could not have walked anywhere or taken to your
skis.
> Such a suggestion may be OT for the group but it reasonably counters your
> previous argument IMHO.
No, not really. But hey ho small things, small minds etc.
thomas
Steve - Don't you think AVOIDING a problem as Harry is suggesting shows
more intelligence than that shown by many people here ?
"Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1jbij45.1qaadtp1ympavoN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
thomas
> No, not really. But hey ho small things, small minds etc.
you do reveal what kind of brain / intellect you have
You're just not very flexible in your thinking are you - there's a journey
to be made, normally use a car - so you MUST use the car whatever the
conditions are - most people realise there are things called OPTIONS
Bod
Another option: go to work on an egg.
Bod
Derek Geldard
<toooo...@retardedloony.com> wrote:
>
>Steve - Don't you think AVOIDING a problem as Harry is suggesting shows
>more intelligence than that shown by many people here ?
>
"Many people here" don't know shit from Shinola.
Some of those don't even know how to post properly.
Derek
Bod
JNugent
> On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 08:20:47 -0000, "thomas"
> <toooo...@retardedloony.com> wrote:
>
>> Steve - Don't you think AVOIDING a problem as Harry is suggesting shows
>> more intelligence than that shown by many people here ?
>>
>
> "Many people here" don't know shit from Shinola.
I remember that Gary Busey (playing the title character) uttered exactly the
same line in the film "The Buddy Holly Story".
What *is* "Shinola", and how different is it from shit?
[Yes, I'll Google it anyway.]
Ray Keattch
> "Graham Harrison" <edward.h...@remove.btinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:lPCdnS5b6oEuXqnW...@bt.com...
>> We get annoyed about the way in which our roads are (not) maintained in
>> snow. We tend to the view that "other places keep the roads open".
>>
>> Well, I've been listening to a radio station in North Dakota (sad, isn't
>> it?) and they are predicting a large snowfall (yes, much more than we ever
>> get) and they have simply withdrawn the plows from various roads,
>> including interstates, closed them and they are telling everyone to stay
>> at home.
>>
>> Maybe that's a better solution.
>
> Global warming, which is NOT man made will help to increase temperatures.
The gas we have put up there has had no effect whatsoever?
--
MrBitsy
Arty Effem
> > Global warming, which is NOT man made will help to increase temperatures.
>
> why you are so sure?
>
Saying that global warming is not man made, is not saying that global
warming is not occurring. Cretin.
Douglas Payne
> I repeat that in almost 47 years of motoring, and often fitting
> mid-price tyres, I have never had a problem. Also, in the same period, I
> have never fitted winter tyres and never been stranded or prevented from
> proceeding on my journey. If you feel that winter tyres are so
> essential you will have to explain why the emergency services don't feel
> the need to replace their normal everyday tyres each winter.
If you've never fitted winter tyres then I'd suggest that you have no
idea what you are talking about.
How is more grip not better whether you can attribute accident
statistics to it or not?
--
Douglas
Ret.
The question is whether the extra expense can be justified in terms of the
benefits to be obtained. Do you have a set of studded tyres for use on icy
surfaces? If not, why not?
Kev
Adrian
> Do you have a set of studded tyres for use on icy surfaces? If not, why
> not?
Because they're illegal for UK road use.
Ret.
And if they weren't would he have a set? Would you? Bearing in mind that
you are happy to continue driving a 20 year old car that nowhere near comes
up the NCAP standards of today's cars in terms of occupant/pedestrian
safety?
Kev
Adrian
> Adrian wrote:
>> "Ret." <xxx> gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:
>>
>>> Do you have a set of studded tyres for use on icy surfaces? If not,
>>> why not?
>>
>> Because they're illegal for UK road use.
>
> And if they weren't would he have a set? Would you?
No, because "normal" winter tyres cope perfectly admirably in the worst
conditions we're likely to see in the UK. If the conditions are such that
the extra grip would be useful, I'm staying under the friggin' duvet.
If I lived in Scandinavia or the Alps, yes.
> Bearing in mind that you are happy to continue driving a 20 year old
> car that nowhere near comes up the NCAP standards of today's cars in
> terms of occupant/pedestrian safety?
Mr Kettle seems to be looking like he's a rather dark shade of charcoal...
http://www.euroncap.com/tests/rover_75_2001/91.aspx
Hardly a sparkling result, eh?
Ret.
I'm not suggesting that it is. The 75 is now an old design - but it is not
me suggesting that it is worth spending hundreds of pounds more to get a
0.9% improvement in safety. (You argued that budget tyres may be perfectly
ok for 99.9% of the time).
You literally spend hundreds of pounds more than me on tyres for a doubtful
increase in safety.
Kev
Ret.
> Adrian wrote:
>> "Ret." <xxx> gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:
>>
>>> Adrian wrote:
>>>> "Ret." <xxx> gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:
>>>>
>>>>> Do you have a set of studded tyres for use on icy surfaces? If
>>>>> not, why not?
>>>>
>>>> Because they're illegal for UK road use.
>>>
>>> And if they weren't would he have a set? Would you?
>>
>> No, because "normal" winter tyres cope perfectly admirably in the
>> worst conditions we're likely to see in the UK. If the conditions are
>> such that the extra grip would be useful, I'm staying under the
>> friggin' duvet.
>>
>> If I lived in Scandinavia or the Alps, yes.
>>
>>> Bearing in mind that you are happy to continue driving a 20 year old
>>> car that nowhere near comes up the NCAP standards of today's cars in
>>> terms of occupant/pedestrian safety?
>>
>> Mr Kettle seems to be looking like he's a rather dark shade of
>> charcoal...
>>
>> http://www.euroncap.com/tests/rover_75_2001/91.aspx
>> Hardly a sparkling result, eh?
>
> I'm not suggesting that it is. The 75 is now an old design
But, having said that, the 'comment' is:
"This car has put in a strong performance. If the side impact
head-protecting airbag had been standard equipment and not an option, the 75
would have come close to matching the Laguna’s five-star rating. The driver’s
door opened easily after the frontal impact and points were deducted only
for forces that loaded his chest. The body’s rigidity resulted in high
restraint loads that distorted one of the child restraints. Britax confirmed
that its restraint was at its design limit when used here."
Kev
Adrian
> You literally spend hundreds of pounds more than me on tyres for a
> doubtful increase in safety.
I spend a fraction of a penny more per mile, in return for a direct and
noticeable benefit which I feel every single time I drive the car.
Adrian
>>>> Bearing in mind that you are happy to continue driving a 20 year old
>>>> car that nowhere near comes up the NCAP standards of today's cars in
>>>> terms of occupant/pedestrian safety?
>>> Mr Kettle seems to be looking like he's a rather dark shade of
>>> charcoal...
>>>
>>> http://www.euroncap.com/tests/rover_75_2001/91.aspx Hardly a sparkling
>>> result, eh?
>> I'm not suggesting that it is. The 75 is now an old design
> But, having said that, the 'comment' is:
>
> "This car has put in a strong performance.
For the day. For the day, mine was about the safest car on the roads, by
a fairly long margin. Not that that's particularly relevant, since you
seem to be taking great delight in pointing out the age of the car I
choose to drive, and how that's not as good as I could be driving today.
> If the side impact head-protecting airbag had been standard equipment
> and not an option,
Is it an option fitted to yours?
> the 75 would have come close to matching the Laguna’s five-star rating.
The contemporary, old model 'guna. Nowhere near as good as the current
'guna.
> The driver’s door opened easily after the frontal impact and points were
> deducted only for forces that loaded his chest. The body’s rigidity
> resulted in high restraint loads that distorted one of the child
> restraints. Britax confirmed that its restraint was at its design limit
> when used here."
Umm, that's a bad thing, y'know.
They've gone for the brute-force-and-ignorance approach, and the car body
doesn't absorb sufficient impact energy, so passes too much on to the
occupant.
Ret.
Oh I agree - the car is an old design now and certainly not up to present
day cars. But your wish to drive an old car that is nowhere near as safe as
modern cars sits uneasily with your claim that it is worthwhile spending
hundreds of pounds more to obtain a marginal improvement in safety when it
comes to tyres.
Kev
Ret.
Without you driving my car, you are unable to argue whether the tyres I am
using are good or bad.
Kev
Adrian
It's entirely possible that your car is the exception to the fact that
every single car I've ever driven on cheap tyres has felt like a bag of
shite compared to the exact same car with good tyres on, yes.
But unlikely.
Adrian
> Oh I agree - the car is an old design now and certainly not up to
> present day cars.
So why do you keep raising it as some apparent evidence of me not giving
a flying fuck about my safety?
> worthwhile spending hundreds of pounds more
You keep repeating that figure. Where have you got it from?
I replaced one pair of Michelin Pilot Primacies at about 16k miles
(mainly on the front of a nose-heavy FWD car), with roughly 3mm left on
them. They cost me about £65 each. Even ignoring the fact that they're
the heavier wearing pair on the car, I make that just over 1.5p/mile for
tyres. Total.
If we assume a 20% reduction in cost per mile, that's going to be 0.3p/
mile saving. To get to even £100 saving, that's close to 35k miles. If by
"hundreds", you mean £200, then that's 70k miles.
Ret.
> "Ret." <xxx> gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:
>
>> Oh I agree - the car is an old design now and certainly not up to
>> present day cars.
>
> So why do you keep raising it as some apparent evidence of me not
> giving a flying fuck about my safety?
>
>> worthwhile spending hundreds of pounds more
>
> You keep repeating that figure. Where have you got it from?
I recently replaced all four tyres on my car. After some research I decided
on the Federals that I have mentioned before. Mytyres.com were selling my
size of Federals (215/55 X 16) at £78 each plus fitting. I found an E-bay
retailer whose premises were an hour's run from my home who was selling the
same tyres for £49 each fully fitted. So a full set of tyres for my car cost
me £196.
>
> I replaced one pair of Michelin Pilot Primacies at about 16k miles
> (mainly on the front of a nose-heavy FWD car), with roughly 3mm left
> on them. They cost me about £65 each. Even ignoring the fact that
> they're the heavier wearing pair on the car, I make that just over
> 1.5p/mile for tyres. Total.
I'd be interested to know where you bought those from. In my size, fully
fitted, those tyres would cost me £147.80 each from etyres.co.uk, £155.50
each from tyre-shopper.co.uk, £137.15 each from blackcircles.com - and all
of those are on-line discount prices. So a single Michelin Pilot Primacy
bought from one of those retailers would have cost me not much less than all
four Federal tyres that I ended up with (and which I am delighted with).
Four Michelins from the cheapest retailer above would have set me back
£548.60 - £352.60 more than I paid for the Federals. I'm astonished that you
managed to purchase the Primacies for £65 each. Fell off the back of a lorry
did they?...
>
> If we assume a 20% reduction in cost per mile, that's going to be
> 0.3p/ mile saving. To get to even £100 saving, that's close to 35k
> miles. If by "hundreds", you mean £200, then that's 70k miles.
Very difficult to arrive at an overall cost without knowing how well my
current tyres will last. It has been my experience, however, that mid-range
tyres often last just as long, if not longer, than branded tyres.
Kev
Adrian
>>> worthwhile spending hundreds of pounds more
>> You keep repeating that figure. Where have you got it from?
> I recently replaced all four tyres on my car. After some research I
> decided on the Federals that I have mentioned before. Mytyres.com were
> selling my size of Federals (215/55 X 16) at £78 each plus fitting. I
> found an E-bay retailer whose premises were an hour's run from my home
> who was selling the same tyres for £49 each fully fitted.
Suspiciously cheap. You are aware that there are a lot of knock-off and
grey-market tyres on sale at some of the pikier establishments?
Were they old-stock, going on the manufacturing date?
>> I replaced one pair of Michelin Pilot Primacies at about 16k miles
>> (mainly on the front of a nose-heavy FWD car), with roughly 3mm left on
>> them. They cost me about £65 each. Even ignoring the fact that they're
>> the heavier wearing pair on the car, I make that just over 1.5p/mile
>> for tyres. Total.
>
> I'd be interested to know where you bought those from. In my size,
> fully fitted, those tyres would cost me £147.80 each from etyres.co.uk,
> £155.50 each from tyre-shopper.co.uk, £137.15 each from blackcircles.com
> - and all of those are on-line discount prices. So a single Michelin
> Pilot Primacy bought from one of those retailers would have cost me not
> much less than all four Federal tyres that I ended up with (and which I
> am delighted with).
> Four Michelins from the cheapest retailer above would have set me back
> £548.60 - £352.60 more than I paid for the Federals. I'm astonished that
> you managed to purchase the Primacies for £65 each. Fell off the back of
> a lorry did they?...
Not at all.
I don't drive something with fashion-victim rubber bands.
BlackCircles show Mich Energies (they've discontinued the Pilots in that
size) for £66.odd each at the mo. However, since I don't much like the
Energies on the back at the mo, I'll be going for something different
(I'm at a bit of a loss as to what - probably Conti PremiumContacts,
although I'm tempted by Vredestein SporTrac3) in spring when I replace
the other pair of Pilots - they're at about 3mm.
What depth do you replace yours at, Kevin? What age do you bin your
caravan tyres at?
Ret.
Usually at 2.5 mm. Because I decided to replace all four tyres at once this
time two were slightly under that and two were at 3mm.
What age do you bin your
> caravan tyres at?
The recommendation, of course, is at 5 years. I actually stretched mine out
to 7 years because I figured that a manufacturer recommendation was probably
likely to suit them! It still broke my heart because, of course, the tyres
I was dumping were barely worn at all.
Kev
Ret.
> Adrian wrote:
>> "Ret." <xxx> gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:
>>
>>>>> worthwhile spending hundreds of pounds more
>>
>>>> You keep repeating that figure. Where have you got it from?
>>
>>> I recently replaced all four tyres on my car. After some research I
>>> decided on the Federals that I have mentioned before. Mytyres.com
>>> were selling my size of Federals (215/55 X 16) at £78 each plus
>>> fitting. I found an E-bay retailer whose premises were an hour's
>>> run from my home who was selling the same tyres for £49 each fully
>>> fitted.
>>
>> Suspiciously cheap. You are aware that there are a lot of knock-off
>> and grey-market tyres on sale at some of the pikier establishments?
>>
>> Were they old-stock, going on the manufacturing date?
Nope - all good. This is the web-site:
http://www.allnewtyres.co.uk/index.asp
Kev
Steve Firth
> It's entirely possible that your car is the exception to the fact that
> every single car I've ever driven on cheap tyres has felt like a bag of
> shite compared to the exact same car with good tyres on, yes.
>
> But unlikely.
Keving probably won't give you a carefully reasoned answer to your point
becuase of two factors. One is that he's trying very carefully to dig
his way out of this question, he seemd to think that his line about not
driving his car was the killer one, knowing that he would be iunlikely
to have you ever drive his car. Of course he forgot that his antique car
and cheap tyres are hardly unusual items on the roads.
The other reason is that he's rather occupied at the moment. In another
newsgroup he is trying desperately to stand up for his democratic right
to beat up children when he chooses to. He really is a target for the
services of St Jude.
Steve Firth
> The recommendation, of course, is at 5 years. I actually stretched mine out
> to 7 years because
Because you place your wallet above primary safety. As witness your
comments about winter tyres and your decision to buy tyres using price
ahead of all other characteristics.
You will then fulminate about dangerous drivers when it's clear which
side of the line you are on.
Adrian
> Four Michelins from the cheapest retailer above would have set me back
> £548.60 - £352.60 more than I paid for the Federals.
Having seen somebody describing General UHPs (the cheap "premium" tyres
that BlackCircles list) as "OK, but noisy and wore very quickly", I had a
brainfart as to whether it was those you were using.
Clearly, it isn't, so I had a little google for your Federals.
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=54716
That's very... encouraging...
Douglas Payne
My car isn't quite 20 years old, but I'd much prefer the tactic of
avoiding potentially dangerous situations than relying on the inherent
safety of a car after it has crashed.
Anyway. The point I was making is that the statistics you seem to be
banding about won't show accidents in bad weather which could have been
prevented by having winter tyres.
Apart from perhaps preventing an accident where someone is hurt or
killed, winter tyres may prevent me from having to walk home or for help
in the middle of the night. I am less likely to end up with exposure,
hypothermia (even frostbite!) etc.
In the grand scheme of motoring, the cost to equip oneself is miniscule
and why more people don't do it defies me.
--
Douglas
Ret.
> Ret. <xxx> wrote:
>
>> The recommendation, of course, is at 5 years. I actually stretched
>> mine out to 7 years because
>
> Because you place your wallet above primary safety.
No - because I always removed the tyres during winter and kept them stored
under sacking. As a result they were perfect with no sign of any
deterioration of the rubber. I suppose you are one of those who always dump
food in the dustbin the day it reaches the 'Best by' date?
As witness your
> comments about winter tyres and your decision to buy tyres using price
> ahead of all other characteristics.
Once again you ignore my frequent response to this claim of yours. I do
*not* use price ahead of all other characteristics when buying tyres. If I
did then I would not be using the tyres that I have on my car.
>
> You will then fulminate about dangerous drivers when it's clear which
> side of the line you are on.
Usual silly exaggeration. Are you claiming that all motorists who drive on
budget or mid-price tyres are 'dangerous'? What about those drivers buying
'eco' cars when Which? has demonstrated that because of their skinny (but
branded) tyres - they have significantly longer braking distances than the
standard car? Are they dangerous drivers also?
Kev
Ret.
This site;
http://www.tyretest.com/pkw_sommerreifen/federal/formoza_fd1/index.html
lists 60 user reviews for the FD1's - with an 'average' table at the top.
This average table accords with my opinion of the tyres.
Kev
Adrian
> No - because I always removed the tyres during winter and kept them
> stored under sacking.
Odd. Yesterday, you were adamant that you didn't have the space to do
that?
Ret.
> Adrian <tooma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It's entirely possible that your car is the exception to the fact
>> that every single car I've ever driven on cheap tyres has felt like
>> a bag of shite compared to the exact same car with good tyres on,
>> yes.
>>
>> But unlikely.
>
> Keving probably won't give you a carefully reasoned answer to your
> point becuase of two factors. One is that he's trying very carefully
> to dig his way out of this question, he seemd to think that his line
> about not driving his car was the killer one, knowing that he would
> be iunlikely to have you ever drive his car. Of course he forgot that
> his antique car and cheap tyres are hardly unusual items on the roads.
And, of course, if you genuinely believe that all 'cheap' tyres are
identical in terms of grip, wear, etc. then you are wrong. It's interesting
that you should refer to my car as an antique when responding to Adrian who
drives a car that is more than twice as old as mine...
>
> The other reason is that he's rather occupied at the moment. In
> another newsgroup he is trying desperately to stand up for his
> democratic right to beat up children when he chooses to. He really is
> a target for the services of St Jude.
You fail to point out that on that particular thread you are now in a
minority of one and are being soundly flounced in your ridiculous and
risible claims.
Kev
Bod
Like Kev, I have 44yrs of driving under my belt and never had a problem
driving in snow/ice. In my opinion, it is the quality of the driver
rather than particular tyres.
Bod
Adrian
saying:
> Like Kev, I have 44yrs of driving under my belt and never had a problem
> driving in snow/ice.
I don't believe you. That simple. Kev admitted yesterday that he DID have
problems - which he worked around by driving VERY slowly, sticking to
main routes and not using the car.
> In my opinion, it is the quality of the driver rather than particular
> tyres.
So changing the rubber transforms my driving ability, does it? Bloody
hell. I ought to patent it as an advanced driving course.
Ret.
There are only two wheels on my caravan - and I stored them inside the
caravan.
Kev
Bod
Bod