Re: Wing mirrors on cars

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <p49k40$1cl3$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,
<bol...@cylonHQ.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 16:03:56 +0000 (GMT)
> "Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
> >In article <c7KdnT-YPOU0pfrH...@brightview.co.uk>,
> > NY <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> >> Yes, to a rough approximation, a turbo allows a smaller (and
> >> therefore lighter) engine to deliver the same torque/power as a
> >> larger N/A engine. I'm not sure what the typical ratio of engine
> >> capacities is for turbo versus N/A.
> >
> >The latest Boxster has a turbo 4 cylinder of approx 2 litres, but
> >produces more power than the old NA 6 cylinder 3.2.

> Just imagine the power you'd get out of a 3.2 if they did the same to it
> that they've done to the 2.0.

True - but that NA 6 is a very sweet unit. Personal thing, but I prefer an
NA petrol engine to any turbo - assuming they both have approximately the
same torque curve.

Diesels are a different matter. Anything improves an engine better suited
to a truck. ;-)

--
*Don't squat with your spurs on *

Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[bol...@cylonhq.com]

On Wed, 24 Jan 2018 13:37:11 +0000 (GMT)

"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <p49k40$1cl3$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,
> <bol...@cylonHQ.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 16:03:56 +0000 (GMT)
>> "Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>> >In article <c7KdnT-YPOU0pfrH...@brightview.co.uk>,
>> > NY <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>> >> Yes, to a rough approximation, a turbo allows a smaller (and
>> >> therefore lighter) engine to deliver the same torque/power as a
>> >> larger N/A engine. I'm not sure what the typical ratio of engine
>> >> capacities is for turbo versus N/A.
>> >
>> >The latest Boxster has a turbo 4 cylinder of approx 2 litres, but
>> >produces more power than the old NA 6 cylinder 3.2.
>
>> Just imagine the power you'd get out of a 3.2 if they did the same to it
>> that they've done to the 2.0.
>
>True - but that NA 6 is a very sweet unit. Personal thing, but I prefer an
>NA petrol engine to any turbo - assuming they both have approximately the
>same torque curve.

Straight sixes are perfectly balanced. Its probably why they're the default
engine configuration for heavy vehicles.

>Diesels are a different matter. Anything improves an engine better suited
>to a truck. ;-)

Diesels will never sound particularly good, though the engines in vans seem
designed to sound as obnoxious as possible.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <p4a3hn$7gg$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,

<bol...@cylonHQ.com> wrote:
> >> Just imagine the power you'd get out of a 3.2 if they did the same to it
> >> that they've done to the 2.0.
> >
> >True - but that NA 6 is a very sweet unit. Personal thing, but I prefer
> >an NA petrol engine to any turbo - assuming they both have
> >approximately the same torque curve.

> Straight sixes are perfectly balanced. Its probably why they're the
> default engine configuration for heavy vehicles.

But the Boxster 6 is a boxer. ;-)

> >Diesels are a different matter. Anything improves an engine better
> >suited to a truck. ;-)

> Diesels will never sound particularly good, though the engines in vans
> seem designed to sound as obnoxious as possible.

You can never disguise the sound of a diesel outside of the car - although
some do a remarkable job inside it.

My dislike of them is based on the stink they all produce. Regardless of
what they claim, emissions wise.

--
*IF YOU TRY TO FAIL, AND SUCCEED, WHICH HAVE YOU DONE?

[James Wilkinson Sword]

On Wed, 24 Jan 2018 14:55:25 -0000, Dave Plowman (News) <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <p4a3hn$7gg$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,
> <bol...@cylonHQ.com> wrote:
>> >> Just imagine the power you'd get out of a 3.2 if they did the same to it
>> >> that they've done to the 2.0.
>> >
>> >True - but that NA 6 is a very sweet unit. Personal thing, but I prefer
>> >an NA petrol engine to any turbo - assuming they both have
>> >approximately the same torque curve.
>
>> Straight sixes are perfectly balanced. Its probably why they're the
>> default engine configuration for heavy vehicles.
>
> But the Boxster 6 is a boxer. ;-)
>
>> >Diesels are a different matter. Anything improves an engine better
>> >suited to a truck. ;-)
>
>> Diesels will never sound particularly good, though the engines in vans
>> seem designed to sound as obnoxious as possible.
>
> You can never disguise the sound of a diesel outside of the car - although
> some do a remarkable job inside it.

What's so bad about it?

> My dislike of them is based on the stink they all produce. Regardless of
> what they claim, emissions wise.

Bullshit, they smell better than petrol fumes.

--
Peter is listening to "Johnny Cash - God's Gonna Cut You Down"

[bol...@cylonhq.com]

On Wed, 24 Jan 2018 14:55:25 +0000 (GMT)

"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <p4a3hn$7gg$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,
> <bol...@cylonHQ.com> wrote:
>> >> Just imagine the power you'd get out of a 3.2 if they did the same to it
>> >> that they've done to the 2.0.
>> >
>> >True - but that NA 6 is a very sweet unit. Personal thing, but I prefer
>> >an NA petrol engine to any turbo - assuming they both have
>> >approximately the same torque curve.
>
>> Straight sixes are perfectly balanced. Its probably why they're the
>> default engine configuration for heavy vehicles.
>
>But the Boxster 6 is a boxer. ;-)

Yes, was thinking of BMW for some reason. I think they're the last major
car manufacturer to sell inline 6's.

>My dislike of them is based on the stink they all produce. Regardless of
>what they claim, emissions wise.

They can be nasty, especially if not maintained.

[James Wilkinson Sword]

On Wed, 24 Jan 2018 15:40:52 -0000, <bol...@cylonhq.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 24 Jan 2018 14:55:25 +0000 (GMT)
> "Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>> In article <p4a3hn$7gg$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,
>> <bol...@cylonHQ.com> wrote:
>>> >> Just imagine the power you'd get out of a 3.2 if they did the same to it
>>> >> that they've done to the 2.0.
>>> >
>>> >True - but that NA 6 is a very sweet unit. Personal thing, but I prefer
>>> >an NA petrol engine to any turbo - assuming they both have
>>> >approximately the same torque curve.
>>
>>> Straight sixes are perfectly balanced. Its probably why they're the
>>> default engine configuration for heavy vehicles.
>>
>> But the Boxster 6 is a boxer. ;-)
>
> Yes, was thinking of BMW for some reason. I think they're the last major
> car manufacturer to sell inline 6's.

BMW aren't exactly renowned for cutting edge tech.

>> My dislike of them is based on the stink they all produce. Regardless of
>> what they claim, emissions wise.
>
> They can be nasty, especially if not maintained.

And petrol isn't? The stench of petrol is revolting. Diesel smells nice, never enjoyed waiting in a large train station while several trains set off?

--
BREAKFAST.SYS halted... Cereal port not responding.

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 24/01/18 15:40, bol...@cylonHQ.com wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Jan 2018 14:55:25 +0000 (GMT)
> "Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>> In article <p4a3hn$7gg$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,
>> <bol...@cylonHQ.com> wrote:
>>>>> Just imagine the power you'd get out of a 3.2 if they did the same to it
>>>>> that they've done to the 2.0.
>>>>
>>>> True - but that NA 6 is a very sweet unit. Personal thing, but I prefer
>>>> an NA petrol engine to any turbo - assuming they both have
>>>> approximately the same torque curve.
>>
>>> Straight sixes are perfectly balanced. Its probably why they're the
>>> default engine configuration for heavy vehicles.
>>
>> But the Boxster 6 is a boxer. ;-)
>
> Yes, was thinking of BMW for some reason. I think they're the last major
> car manufacturer to sell inline 6's.
>

https://jalopnik.com/jaguar-land-rover-will-switch-to-glorious-straight-six-1771765962

>> My dislike of them is based on the stink they all produce. Regardless of
>> what they claim, emissions wise.
>
> They can be nasty, especially if not maintained.
>

--
Gun Control: The law that ensures that only criminals have guns.

[James Wilkinson Sword]

On Wed, 24 Jan 2018 16:02:38 -0000, The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 24/01/18 15:40, bol...@cylonHQ.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2018 14:55:25 +0000 (GMT)
>> "Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In article <p4a3hn$7gg$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,
>>> <bol...@cylonHQ.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Just imagine the power you'd get out of a 3.2 if they did the same to it
>>>>>> that they've done to the 2.0.
>>>>>
>>>>> True - but that NA 6 is a very sweet unit. Personal thing, but I prefer
>>>>> an NA petrol engine to any turbo - assuming they both have
>>>>> approximately the same torque curve.
>>>
>>>> Straight sixes are perfectly balanced. Its probably why they're the
>>>> default engine configuration for heavy vehicles.
>>>
>>> But the Boxster 6 is a boxer. ;-)
>>
>> Yes, was thinking of BMW for some reason. I think they're the last major
>> car manufacturer to sell inline 6's.
>>
> https://jalopnik.com/jaguar-land-rover-will-switch-to-glorious-straight-six-1771765962

It's amazing anyone buys those unreliable badly designed things. The parent company, Rover, went bankrupt years ago. My neighbour's car is a top of the range Rover. The headlight switch is in a non standard position, I had to ask her where it was. Then when I tried to reverse it, I found the rear window was a third of the normal height and I had no visibility.

--
Women claim that they never pursue a man. Well, by the same token, a mousetrap never pursues a mouse, but the end result is
the same.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <p4a9e4$idu$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,

<bol...@cylonHQ.com> wrote:
> >> Straight sixes are perfectly balanced. Its probably why they're the
> >> default engine configuration for heavy vehicles.
> >
> >But the Boxster 6 is a boxer. ;-)

> Yes, was thinking of BMW for some reason. I think they're the last major
> car manufacturer to sell inline 6's.

Could well be, but as you say a classic configuration. Although not so
easy to package as that abortion, the V6.

--
*What was the best thing before sliced bread? *

[James Wilkinson Sword]

On Wed, 24 Jan 2018 17:06:16 -0000, Dave Plowman (News) <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <p4a9e4$idu$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,
> <bol...@cylonHQ.com> wrote:
>> >> Straight sixes are perfectly balanced. Its probably why they're the
>> >> default engine configuration for heavy vehicles.
>> >
>> >But the Boxster 6 is a boxer. ;-)
>
>> Yes, was thinking of BMW for some reason. I think they're the last major
>> car manufacturer to sell inline 6's.
>
> Could well be, but as you say a classic configuration. Although not so
> easy to package as that abortion, the V6.

What was wrong with a V6?

--
"I must take every precaution not to get pregnant," said Judi to her best friend Monika.
"But I thought you said your hubby had a vasectomy," Monika responded.
"He did. That's why I have to take every precaution!" shrieked Judi.

[NY]

"James Wilkinson Sword" <imv...@somewear.com> wrote in message
news:op.zdczd...@red.lan...

> On Wed, 24 Jan 2018 17:06:16 -0000, Dave Plowman (News)
> <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> In article <p4a9e4$idu$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,
>> <bol...@cylonHQ.com> wrote:
>>> >> Straight sixes are perfectly balanced. Its probably why they're the
>>> >> default engine configuration for heavy vehicles.
>>> >
>>> >But the Boxster 6 is a boxer. ;-)

I know that a 4-cylinder boxer is perfectly balanced, like 2- and 6-cylinder
inline, and so doesn't need any dynamic balancing shafts. Does the same
apply to a 6-cylinder boxer?

For all that 4-boxers are supposed to be well balanced, the one in my dad's
Citroen GS sounded VERY rough. Maybe it was because it was a high-revving
and low-geared car...

[James Wilkinson Sword]

Ever tried a 3 cylinder petrol? I got one and thought it was a diesel the noise it made!

--
I want to lie shipwrecked and comatose
Drinking fresh mango juice
With goldfish shoals nibbling round my toes
Fun in the sun

[NY]

"James Wilkinson Sword" <imv...@somewear.com> wrote in message

news:op.zdc3c...@red.lan...

> Ever tried a 3 cylinder petrol? I got one and thought it was a diesel the
> noise it made!

I drove a 3-cylinder petrol Polo and that was fine in steady driving but
very rough on acceleration. It was a loan car while my diesel was in for
servicing, and it was far noisier.

[James Wilkinson Sword]

I had a 3 cylinder Vauxhall Corsa (1 litre). Not particularly powerful but it was light, so I could overtake the old codgers. I didn't notice any roughness, it just sounded like I was driving an underpowered diesel. The stupid thing about it though was.... it had 5 seats. But place 5 average sized adults in it and it would hit the bottom of the suspension.

--
Is an infirmary a place for people who can't get it up?

[TMS320]

On 24/01/18 13:37, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

> True - but that NA 6 is a very sweet unit. Personal thing, but I prefer an
> NA petrol engine to any turbo - assuming they both have approximately the
> same torque curve.

If it can be heard, it can't be sweet (except perhaps a Merlin from a
respectable distance). Turbos do a brilliant job of helping to smooth
out the noise.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <UOOdnewhzNhtfvXH...@brightview.co.uk>,

NY <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> "James Wilkinson Sword" <imv...@somewear.com> wrote in message
> news:op.zdczd...@red.lan...
> > On Wed, 24 Jan 2018 17:06:16 -0000, Dave Plowman (News)
> > <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> In article <p4a9e4$idu$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,
> >> <bol...@cylonHQ.com> wrote:
> >>> >> Straight sixes are perfectly balanced. Its probably why they're the
> >>> >> default engine configuration for heavy vehicles.
> >>> >
> >>> >But the Boxster 6 is a boxer. ;-)

> I know that a 4-cylinder boxer is perfectly balanced, like 2- and
> 6-cylinder inline, and so doesn't need any dynamic balancing shafts.
> Does the same apply to a 6-cylinder boxer?

Yes.

But very few layouts are perfectly balanced. An inline 6 has torsional
imbalance at higher revs due to crank and cam lengths - hence the fitment
of a vibration damper to the crank.

Think you have to go to a V12 to get theoretical perfect balance.

> For all that 4-boxers are supposed to be well balanced, the one in my
> dad's Citroen GS sounded VERY rough. Maybe it was because it was a
> high-revving and low-geared car...

Boxer engines tend to have uneven firing pulses. Hence the characteristic
exhaust note.

--
*Fax is stronger than fiction *

[TMS320]

On 24/01/18 19:52, NY wrote:

> I know that a 4-cylinder boxer is perfectly balanced, like 2- and
> 6-cylinder inline, and so doesn't need any dynamic balancing shafts.
> Does the same apply to a 6-cylinder boxer?
>
> For all that 4-boxers are supposed to be well balanced, the one in my
> dad's Citroen GS sounded VERY rough. Maybe it was because it was a
> high-revving and low-geared car...

I once had an Alfasud. Compared to the GS it had a water jacket to help.
It had reviewers creaming their jeans about how it would rev to the sky
without realising it but I never got that; go past 5k and it was pretty
obvious what was happening, as in any engine I have ever come across.
Though I will give it credit that with the wick turned down for cruising
it could sit at 4500rpm pretty comfortably.

[rbowman]

On 01/24/2018 07:55 AM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> My dislike of them is based on the stink they all produce. Regardless of
> what they claim, emissions wise.

Compared to the acrid stench our 'oxygenated' gasoline produces, the
smell of diesel is like walking through a field of spring wildflowers.

[rbowman]

On 01/24/2018 09:29 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
> It's amazing anyone buys those unreliable badly designed things. The
> parent company, Rover, went bankrupt years ago. My neighbour's car is a
> top of the range Rover. The headlight switch is in a non standard
> position, I had to ask her where it was. Then when I tried to reverse
> it, I found the rear window was a third of the normal height and I had
> no visibility.
>

Tata owns Jaguar Land Rover now. Your former colony know how to build
vehicles.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <fct03c...@mid.individual.net>,

But not how to prevent them being stolen easily. ;-)

--
*I have my own little world - but it's OK...they know me here*

[bol...@cylonhq.com]

On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 11:08:20 +0000 (GMT)

"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <fct03c...@mid.individual.net>,
> rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:
>> On 01/24/2018 09:29 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
>> > It's amazing anyone buys those unreliable badly designed things. The
>> > parent company, Rover, went bankrupt years ago. My neighbour's car is a
>> > top of the range Rover. The headlight switch is in a non standard
>> > position, I had to ask her where it was. Then when I tried to reverse
>> > it, I found the rear window was a third of the normal height and I had
>> > no visibility.
>> >
>
>> Tata owns Jaguar Land Rover now. Your former colony know how to build
>> vehicles.
>
>But not how to prevent them being stolen easily. ;-)

Tata couldn't build a decent vehicle if their lives depended on it. They bought
that expertise when they bought JLR. Which is a bit more honest than the
chinese approach which is to simply copy it - badly.

[dennis@home]

On 24/01/2018 14:55, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <p4a3hn$7gg$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,
> <bol...@cylonHQ.com> wrote:
>>>> Just imagine the power you'd get out of a 3.2 if they did the same to it
>>>> that they've done to the 2.0.
>>>
>>> True - but that NA 6 is a very sweet unit. Personal thing, but I prefer
>>> an NA petrol engine to any turbo - assuming they both have
>>> approximately the same torque curve.
>
>> Straight sixes are perfectly balanced. Its probably why they're the
>> default engine configuration for heavy vehicles.
>
> But the Boxster 6 is a boxer. ;-)
>
>>> Diesels are a different matter. Anything improves an engine better
>>> suited to a truck. ;-)
>
>> Diesels will never sound particularly good, though the engines in vans
>> seem designed to sound as obnoxious as possible.
>
> You can never disguise the sound of a diesel outside of the car - although
> some do a remarkable job inside it.
>
> My dislike of them is based on the stink they all produce. Regardless of
> what they claim, emissions wise.
>

My last diesel didn't smell and it didn't smoke.
The fuel stank when you filled it.
People running on illegal fuel tend to smell of perfume as that's one
way the gov can detect them.

I will probably buy a diesel next time because they only do a diesel in
the model I want. It will not be any worse on emissions than a similar
petrol engine.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <eKjaC.540473$4O3....@fx15.am4>,

dennis@home <den...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> > My dislike of them is based on the stink they all produce. Regardless of
> > what they claim, emissions wise.
> >

> My last diesel didn't smell and it didn't smoke.

The vast majority I get stopped behind in a London traffic jam do smell.

The majority also smoke badly if pushed hard after a period of gentle use.
Like at the start of a motorway, after leaving a town.

--
*Organized Crime Is Alive And Well; It's Called Auto Insurance.

[rbowman]

They may have gotten cheated if they thought they were getting much
expertise. I've been out of touch with British cars for a long time but
back in the day Jags weren't known for their reliability.

It's a different situation but India appears to be doing okay with the
Royal Enfield although they stumbled with the Himalayan.

[rbowman]

On 01/25/2018 05:05 AM, dennis@home wrote:
> My last diesel didn't smell and it didn't smoke.
> The fuel stank when you filled it.
> People running on illegal fuel tend to smell of perfume as that's one
> way the gov can detect them.

Is off road diesel dyed in the UK? In the US if it's red it better be in
your farm tractor.

[bol...@cylonhq.com]

On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 08:18:17 -0700
rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:
>On 01/25/2018 05:05 AM, dennis@home wrote:
>> My last diesel didn't smell and it didn't smoke.
>> The fuel stank when you filled it.
>> People running on illegal fuel tend to smell of perfume as that's one
>> way the gov can detect them.
>
>Is off road diesel dyed in the UK

It is and if you get caught using it you could lose your car and get a
criminal record. However the chances of a customs check on Mr Average's
car are virtually zero though I imagine they still spot check trucks and
farmers cars from time to time.

[bol...@cylonhq.com]

Name me any reliable mark back in the 70s and 80s apart from rolls royce.

Ford brought the build quality up to scratch tho they lost the plot a bit
with the design and were too stupid to invest some more to make them
profitable so they flogged JLR to Tata who did precisely that in only a few
years. The Ford board must be the dumbest fucks ever to run a car company.

>It's a different situation but India appears to be doing okay with the
>Royal Enfield although they stumbled with the Himalayan.

Indian car & bike "design" seems to be 30 years behind the rest of the world.

[dennis@home]

They filter the dye out.

[NY]

<bol...@cylonHQ.com> wrote in message news:p4ctm7$119c$1...@gioia.aioe.org...

There was an exception to this rule. In 2000 or 2001, when there were fuel
shortages on the forecourts due to strikes at the refineries (?), an
exemption was granted for road vehicles to use red diesel, as long as it was
for the shortest period of time until white diesel became available again.
If your tank was dipped or your engine was examined for chemical markers in
red diesel, you couldn't be prosecuted at that time. Once the strike was
over, the full weight of the law was then applied.

I believe some of the chemical markers in red diesel last "forever" in the
engine, so they show if red diesel has *ever* been used. I may be wrong
about this, but it's what I was told once on a Customs and Excise stand at
the NEC Motor Show.

[damdu...@yahoo.co.uk]

On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 17:23:13 -0000, "NY" <m...@privacy.net> wrote:


>>>
>>>Is off road diesel dyed in the UK
>>
>> It is and if you get caught using it you could lose your car and get a
>> criminal record.
>

>There was an exception to this rule. In 2000 or 2001, when there were fuel
>shortages on the forecourts due to strikes at the refineries (?), an
>exemption was granted for road vehicles to use red diesel, as long as it was
>for the shortest period of time until white diesel became available again.
>If your tank was dipped or your engine was examined for chemical markers in
>red diesel, you couldn't be prosecuted at that time. Once the strike was
>over, the full weight of the law was then applied.

You have missed out the important bit that you were supposed to
declare how much you red diesel you had put in a vehicle and then pay
the duty owed to bring it the cost it would have been if available as
white. Then if later traces of Red were found in a tank you would
have evidence as to why it had been there legitimately.

G.Harman.

[James Wilkinson Sword]

On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 14:46:27 -0000, Dave Plowman (News) <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <eKjaC.540473$4O3....@fx15.am4>,
> dennis@home <den...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> > My dislike of them is based on the stink they all produce. Regardless of
>> > what they claim, emissions wise.
>> >
>
>> My last diesel didn't smell and it didn't smoke.
>
> The vast majority I get stopped behind in a London traffic jam do smell.
>
> The majority also smoke badly if pushed hard after a period of gentle use.
> Like at the start of a motorway, after leaving a town.

What amuses me are buses that say "Greener Travel" on the back and belch out smoke. Either they don't get MOTs, or they aren't regular enough for the miles they do.

--
Hickory dickory dock, three mice ran up the clock. The clock struck one, and the others got away with minor injuries.

[James Wilkinson Sword]

Or you can use cooking oil.

--
"The most dangerous thing in the world is to try to leap a chasm in two jumps" -- David Lloyd George, former UK Prime Minister

[Bob Eager]

Yes. Boat is OK I think.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

[James Wilkinson Sword]

On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 22:29:57 -0000, Bob Eager <news...@eager.cx> wrote:

> On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 08:18:17 -0700, rbowman wrote:
>
>> On 01/25/2018 05:05 AM, dennis@home wrote:
>>> My last diesel didn't smell and it didn't smoke.
>>> The fuel stank when you filled it.
>>> People running on illegal fuel tend to smell of perfume as that's one
>>> way the gov can detect them.
>>
>> Is off road diesel dyed in the UK? In the US if it's red it better be in
>> your farm tractor.
>
> Yes. Boat is OK I think.

It's not like you're doing anything really naughty, you're just preventing the government from stealing taxes from you for driving your own vehicle.

--
Beyond a critical point within a finite space, freedom diminishes as numbers increase...the human question is not how many can possibly survive within the system, but what kind of existence is possible for those who do survive. -- Frank Herbert (Dune)

[NY]

<damdu...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:cl8k6dl17fm9sdv78...@4ax.com...

I did know at the time about declaring and paying, but I'd forgotten about
it since then. Thanks for reminding me.

It would only have applied to a fairly small minority of drivers: those who
have access to red diesel in the first place, so who work on a farm or know
someone who does who can sell it to them.

I remember I was having to travel about 80 miles a day to/from work, as I'd
started a new job and hadn't yet moved to my new house which was closer to
my new job, and I was starting to get concerned about how I'd get to work if
I couldn't find somewhere that still had fuel.

I was lucky in that I had about a 10-minute walk to my local station, and
then two trains would get me to within a mile or so of work, with a bus to
work if it was raining. It never came to it, but I remember having one
anxious journey home, trying to decide whether it was better to go straight
home on the motorway, or to take a longer, more stop-start journey on A
roads where there might be garages that still had fuel.

It was interesting on the M4 how many cars were going a lot more slowly than
normal to conserve fuel. I tried to keep down to 50 on my way home each day;
going to work, I was in more of a hurry to be there on time and could never
wake up early enough to allow for the extra 50-versus-70 time.

[damdu...@yahoo.co.uk]

On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 23:44:03 -0000, "NY" <m...@privacy.net> wrote:


>>>There was an exception to this rule. In 2000 or 2001, when there were fuel
>>>shortages on the forecourts due to strikes at the refineries (?), an
>>>exemption was granted for road vehicles to use red diesel,
>

>> You have missed out the important bit that you were supposed to
>> declare how much you red diesel you had put in a vehicle and then pay
>> the duty

>I did know at the time about declaring and paying, but I'd forgotten about
>it since then. Thanks for reminding me.
>
>It would only have applied to a fairly small minority of drivers: those who
>have access to red diesel in the first place, so who work on a farm or know
>someone who does who can sell it to them.

As now a few garages in country areas had Red or in UK parlance Gas
Oil tanks and pumps so that was another source till they ran dry.

The firm I worked for had some diesel powered Fork lift trucks and a
Gas Oil tank on site, they also had a large DERV tank for the lorry
fleet. Normally we ran our diesel cars on forecourt bought fuel but
were allowed to use that a couple of times till it got low.
The transport manager was happy to put red in some older lorries but
wasn't that happy about any of the company cars using it.
It was around then some colleagues and myself remembered at the end of
the yard was an older truck that been out of use for a while , we
almost drained the tank and got enough (white) to fill our cars but
were surprised that it had contained so much.
Thought no more about till I returned to the yard a couple of days
later and one of the managers who knew me too well asked " You seem
to have found some diesel from somewhere to keep you going , by the
way the transport manager is throwing a wobbler best get out on the
road again." Unknown to us within an hour of draining the tank a
dealer took it out on trade plates having been assured the empty
reading on the gauge was a probably a fault caused by the couple of
months lay up as the workshop had put enough diesel in it for the
dealer to reach his yard 150 miles away.
He got 1 mile and stopped right on a busy light controlled roundabout
that was the main access route for a number of industrial estates to
reach a Motorway interchange and caused havoc . apparently he stopped
for a red light at the line and stayed there with a Horn Orchestra
from a succesion of other drivers thinking he had not noticed the
light change to green till the tow truck reached him.


G.Harman

[James Wilkinson Sword]

My car once broke down on a roundabout. I was most amused at the number of people hooting at me, which I gave the middle finger to. Eventually somebody helped push my car off the roundabout until the recovery services arrived.

--
I don't know how many of you have tasted authentic English Beer.
Once in London, I was asked what I thought of a particular brew.
I told my host that it really should be poured back into the horse.

[James Wilkinson Sword]

On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 23:44:03 -0000, NY <m...@privacy.net> wrote:

Nothing but nothing would make me drive slowly.

--
Why do people point to their wrist when asking for the time, but don't point to their crotch when asking where the bathroom is?

[damdu...@yahoo.co.uk]

On 25 Jan 2018 22:29:57 GMT, Bob Eager <news...@eager.cx> wrote:

>On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 08:18:17 -0700, rbowman wrote:
>
>> On 01/25/2018 05:05 AM, dennis@home wrote:
>>> My last diesel didn't smell and it didn't smoke.
>>> The fuel stank when you filled it.
>>> People running on illegal fuel tend to smell of perfume as that's one
>>> way the gov can detect them.
>>
>> Is off road diesel dyed in the UK? In the US if it's red it better be in
>> your farm tractor.
>
>Yes. Boat is OK I think.

For a few years now it depends on what the boat is doing,
Commercial activity is allowed to use Red but pleasure boating is
supposed to use the higher duty as road vehicles for propulsion.
This has caused problems in many craft especially canal boats which
were built with one tank and an engine and the fuel may be used for
heating lighting etc when the boat is stationary either by appliances
or electric generated by running the engine just for that .
Boat owners are supposed to declare how much they will use for
propulsion and pay duty on that amount.


G.Harman

[rbowman]

Other than a '71 Audi, I had a variety of Fords, Chevrolets, and
Pontiacs in those years that didn't let me down. In fact the Ford F150 I
bought in '86 is still out in the driveway. It had paint problems like
many of the vehicles did as they switched over to less toxic paints but
no other problems other than normal wear.

I'd gotten past British cars by the '70s.

>> It's a different situation but India appears to be doing okay with the
>> Royal Enfield although they stumbled with the Himalayan.
>
> Indian car & bike "design" seems to be 30 years behind the rest of the world.

They work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riding_Solo_to_the_Top_of_the_World

I have the video and I'll freely admit the guy has much larger balls
than I. At 18,634', he's pushing the absurdly overloaded Enfield because
there isn't enough oxygen for it to run. He's not running too well
himself but he made it. It sort of puts McGregor and Boorman in the
shade with their support crew and specially prepped R1150GS bikes.

[rbowman]

On 01/25/2018 04:44 PM, NY wrote:
> It was interesting on the M4 how many cars were going a lot more slowly
> than normal to conserve fuel. I tried to keep down to 50 on my way home
> each day; going to work, I was in more of a hurry to be there on time
> and could never wake up early enough to allow for the extra 50-versus-70
> time.

In the '70s the US had a 55 mph national speed limit to conserve fuel.
Unfortunately when it went into effect I was driving an Audi that was
never meant to do 55 except as a brief interval on the way to a
reasonable cruising speed.

Thankfully that foolishness passed. The next large, well 33,000 people,
city from here is 110 miles. It's bad enough at 80.

[rbowman]

On 01/25/2018 10:23 AM, NY wrote:
> There was an exception to this rule. In 2000 or 2001, when there were
> fuel shortages on the forecourts due to strikes at the refineries

Is 'forecourt' common British usage? Other than trolling Sword I can
usually translate but that one threw me. We might say 'pump island' if
it was necessary to differentiate that are a for some reason but
typically it would just be 'gas station' or just 'station' if it was
obvious you were talking about fuel. Forecourt sounds like something to
do with tennis or palaces.

[rbowman]

On 01/25/2018 12:40 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 16:22:33 -0000, dennis@home <den...@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> On 25/01/2018 15:18, rbowman wrote:
>>> On 01/25/2018 05:05 AM, dennis@home wrote:
>>>> My last diesel didn't smell and it didn't smoke.
>>>> The fuel stank when you filled it.
>>>> People running on illegal fuel tend to smell of perfume as that's one
>>>> way the gov can detect them.
>>>
>>> Is off road diesel dyed in the UK? In the US if it's red it better be in
>>> your farm tractor.
>>>
>>>
>> They filter the dye out.
>
> Or you can use cooking oil.
>

You can always tell the biodiesel vehicles -- they smell like a taco
stand on a bad day.

[rbowman]

On 01/25/2018 05:45 PM, damdu...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> Boat owners are supposed to declare how much they will use for
> propulsion and pay duty on that amount.

That sounds like something only a taxman could love. It would be really
wonderful on a sail boat with a diesel auxiliary where you would have to
log hours under sail versus motor sailing.

[damdu...@yahoo.co.uk]

On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 19:52:15 -0700, rbowman <bow...@montana.com>
wrote:

it is a bit of kludge.
The UK only brought it in reluctantly in 2008 after a few years of
fighting whatever bit of the EU that was enforcing it in a
harmonization exercise with other states who had never had separate or
vastly different rates for marine fuel.

It is overbearing actions like that are remembered and partly
responsible for the way the vote to leave the EU went the way it did
and I say that as one who would rather we stayed in main reason being
and I don't wish to be too rude but although individually USAsians
tend to be nice people as a Nation the USA is a bully but size matters
and the collective EU is large enough to push back where an individual
UK is not.
And the so called special relationship really means diddly squat and
is an arse licking exercise by the UK on the whole.
Personally I think we should get along with the Ruskies a bit more,
the USA no longer has the excuse that they are Red Commies so whats
the problem.



But enough of that , the subject of the EU has been done to death in
here.

G.Harman

[The Natural Philosopher]

forecourt is a paved area in front of a premises.

It's often used to denote (part of) a garage or petrol station

Ther are no gas stations in the UK

Cars run on petrol or diesel


--
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's
too dark to read.

Groucho Marx

[Jimbo]

"The Natural Philosopher" <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:p4erdj$qgk$1...@dont-email.me...

> On 26/01/18 02:47, rbowman wrote:
>> On 01/25/2018 10:23 AM, NY wrote:
>>> There was an exception to this rule. In 2000 or 2001, when there were
>>> fuel shortages on the forecourts due to strikes at the refineries
>>
>> Is 'forecourt' common British usage? Other than trolling Sword I can
>> usually translate but that one threw me. We might say 'pump island' if it
>> was necessary to differentiate that are a for some reason but typically
>> it would just be 'gas station' or just 'station' if it was obvious you
>> were talking about fuel. Forecourt sounds like something to do with
>> tennis or palaces.
>>
> forecourt is a paved area in front of a premises.
>
> It's often used to denote (part of) a garage or petrol station
>
> Ther are no gas stations in the UK
>
> Cars run on petrol or diesel
>
>

or gas ....

[The Natural Philosopher]

NATURAL gas, or propane, or butane.

--
"Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will
let them."

[bol...@cylonhq.com]

On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 17:23:13 -0000
"NY" <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>I believe some of the chemical markers in red diesel last "forever" in the
>engine, so they show if red diesel has *ever* been used. I may be wrong
>about this, but it's what I was told once on a Customs and Excise stand at
>the NEC Motor Show.

To coin a phrase "Well they would, wouldn't they?". It could possibly be
like the lead on 4 star that coated the valves, but as soon as you stopped
using 4 star the lead slowly wore away and eventually your valves would start
to wear out. If anything stuck to the inside of the engine that couldn't be
burned away it would continue to accumulate and eventually clog it. Ditto the
fuel pipes and injectors. So IMO their claim is complete bollocks.

[bol...@cylonhq.com]

On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 19:32:58 -0700
rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:
>Other than a '71 Audi, I had a variety of Fords, Chevrolets, and
>Pontiacs in those years that didn't let me down. In fact the Ford F150 I

You must be the only person who's owned 70s americana that was reliable then.

>I'd gotten past British cars by the '70s.

Most of us in britain did too, hence the popularity of german and japanese
cars here. Sadly build quality in british cars was ruined by bone idle
unionised workers who would sooner strike than work and management who would
have trouble running a tap, never mind a car factory.

>I have the video and I'll freely admit the guy has much larger balls
>than I. At 18,634', he's pushing the absurdly overloaded Enfield because
>there isn't enough oxygen for it to run. He's not running too well
>himself but he made it. It sort of puts McGregor and Boorman in the
>shade with their support crew and specially prepped R1150GS bikes.

Well TV "adventurers" are usually no such thing. I remember Micheal Palin
waxing lyrical about being all alone in some far flung place. Yeah, all alone
apart from the cameraman, sound recordist, director, runner, fixer ...

Mind you, real adventurers often strike me as being slightly damaged goods.
They seem to have some pathalogical need to keep proving themselves to
themselves despite the dangers. Thats not a sign of a healthy personality.

[Roger Hayter]

The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 26/01/18 02:47, rbowman wrote:
> > On 01/25/2018 10:23 AM, NY wrote:
> >> There was an exception to this rule. In 2000 or 2001, when there were
> >> fuel shortages on the forecourts due to strikes at the refineries
> >
> > Is 'forecourt' common British usage? Other than trolling Sword I can
> > usually translate but that one threw me. We might say 'pump island' if
> > it was necessary to differentiate that are a for some reason but
> > typically it would just be 'gas station' or just 'station' if it was
> > obvious you were talking about fuel. Forecourt sounds like something to
> > do with tennis or palaces.
> >
> forecourt is a paved area in front of a premises.
>
> It's often used to denote (part of) a garage or petrol station
>
> Ther are no gas stations in the UK
>
> Cars run on petrol or diesel

Would it be argumentative/obsessive/confusing to mention LPG here?

--

Roger Hayter

[NY]

"Jimbo" <kinvig...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:p4esmt$3sr$1...@dont-email.me...

I wonder how America will cope if LPG takes off in a big way over there and
they need to distinguish between "gas" (ie LPG, using "gas" in the sense of
vapour) and gasoline, commonly shortened to "gas".


I'd be wary about using "paved". I tend to think of "paved" as meaning
covered in a rectangular grid of paving stones, each about a metre square -
as on a patio or a garden path. However I know that US usage of "paved" also
includes a large area of concrete or tarmac.

[NY]

<bol...@cylonHQ.com> wrote in message news:p4etua$1tnh$1...@gioia.aioe.org...

Yes I'm inclined to the Mandy Rice Davies response as well. You wouldn't
want anything that left an accumulating residue inside your engine or fuel
pump/pipes/injectors.

I suppose they could detect a residue of the chemical markers (the ones that
are in addition to the obvious red dye) for a few days/weeks, even if you
flushed through with white diesel, but anything longer than a few weeks
sounds like pure scary bollocks.

[Bob Eager]

Forecourt is the part of a petrol station/garage where the pumps are. It
is common usage.

I once qualified (!) as a Senior Forecourt Salesman and had a badge...no,
I didn't sell forecourts. But I did learn tyre fitting and other stuff.

[bol...@cylonhq.com]

On 26 Jan 2018 13:08:07 GMT

Bob Eager <news...@eager.cx> wrote:
>On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 19:47:47 -0700, rbowman wrote:
>
>> On 01/25/2018 10:23 AM, NY wrote:
>>> There was an exception to this rule. In 2000 or 2001, when there were
>>> fuel shortages on the forecourts due to strikes at the refineries
>>
>> Is 'forecourt' common British usage? Other than trolling Sword I can
>> usually translate but that one threw me. We might say 'pump island' if
>> it was necessary to differentiate that are a for some reason but
>> typically it would just be 'gas station' or just 'station' if it was
>> obvious you were talking about fuel. Forecourt sounds like something to
>> do with tennis or palaces.
>
>Forecourt is the part of a petrol station/garage where the pumps are. It
>is common usage.

Pump island sounds like somewhere Club 18-30 would advertise "special"
holidays!

[NY]

<bol...@cylonHQ.com> wrote in message news:p4fdfr$pe9$1...@gioia.aioe.org...

"Let me take your cap off, put my nozzle in your tube and fill you up" :-)

Very 1970s "Confesssions-Of" soft-porn.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <fcvj69...@mid.individual.net>,

It probably dates back to when working garages sold petrol, and the pumps
were at the front of the garage.

Not so applicable to the average filling station these days.

--
*Why is it that rain drops but snow falls?

Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[rbowman]

On 01/26/2018 03:44 AM, NY wrote:
> I wonder how America will cope if LPG takes off in a big way over there
> and they need to distinguish between "gas" (ie LPG, using "gas" in the
> sense of vapour) and gasoline, commonly shortened to "gas".

Usually we would say LP or propane. I wouldn't call the container in my
backyard a gas tank. Even technically it isn't a gas tank although some
liquid propane does enter the gaseous phase.

[rbowman]

Don't know what Club 18-30 is but with the newer pumps showing snatches
of TV programs as you pump, if it has something to do with porn we're ready.

[rbowman]

On 01/26/2018 01:50 AM, damdu...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> It is overbearing actions like that are remembered and partly
> responsible for the way the vote to leave the EU went the way it did
> and I say that as one who would rather we stayed in main reason being
> and I don't wish to be too rude but although individually USAsians
> tend to be nice people as a Nation the USA is a bully but size matters
> and the collective EU is large enough to push back where an individual
> UK is not.
> And the so called special relationship really means diddly squat and
> is an arse licking exercise by the UK on the whole.
> Personally I think we should get along with the Ruskies a bit more,
> the USA no longer has the excuse that they are Red Commies so whats
> the problem.

I cannot disagree. From the viewpoint of many US businesses, the UK was
just a convenient door into the EU. Lacking that the Republic of Ireland
will do. It's already an attractive country.

I see no reason for Europe to get caught up in the US hysteria about
Russia. I was hoping Trump would result in a better relationship but
leftover cold warriors are deeply entrenched in our government. I would
rather see a good relationship with Putin than with some of the scum we
insist on promoting but I'm neither king or president.

[rbowman]

On 01/26/2018 03:00 AM, bol...@cylonHQ.com wrote:
> Well TV "adventurers" are usually no such thing. I remember Micheal Palin
> waxing lyrical about being all alone in some far flung place. Yeah, all alone
> apart from the cameraman, sound recordist, director, runner, fixer ...

It does make life easier. The Indian guy demonstrated his technique on
one impressive set of switchbacks. Ride up to the top of the pass, prop
the camera on a rock, hoping to have the right field of view, ride back
to the bottom, return up the pass, and retrieve the camera. He said it
got a bit tiring.

Bear Grylls lost some of his shine when it came out what his idea of
roughing it was, plus some of his stupider antics which were anything
but a good plan for surviving.

I prefer Les Stroud. He has a more realistic approach, pointing out
you'll be cold, wet, hungry and life will generally suck but you'll live
through it.

[bol...@cylonhq.com]

Its a holiday company for people from 18 to 30 years old. Its holidays are
in cheap resorts and were really just an excuse for young people to meet up
get drunk and have sex next to the meditteranean. Though how its doing these
days with Tinder around is anyones guess.

[bol...@cylonhq.com]

The tank in your car is even less of a gas tank!

[bol...@cylonhq.com]

On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 08:38:15 -0700
rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:
>On 01/26/2018 03:00 AM, bol...@cylonHQ.com wrote:
>> Well TV "adventurers" are usually no such thing. I remember Micheal Palin
>> waxing lyrical about being all alone in some far flung place. Yeah, all alone
>> apart from the cameraman, sound recordist, director, runner, fixer ...
>
>It does make life easier. The Indian guy demonstrated his technique on
>one impressive set of switchbacks. Ride up to the top of the pass, prop
>the camera on a rock, hoping to have the right field of view, ride back
>to the bottom, return up the pass, and retrieve the camera. He said it
>got a bit tiring.
>
>Bear Grylls lost some of his shine when it came out what his idea of
>roughing it was, plus some of his stupider antics which were anything
>but a good plan for surviving.

Ray Mears was less than complimentary about Grylls techniques a few years back.
I've never bought into the whole Bear Grylls myth myself. He always struck me
as a public school boy playing at being a survivalist rather than actually
being one and I'm deeply suspicious of his supposed SAS service. Wouldn't
surprise me if he was an officer who spent most of his time directing stuff
rather than doing it.

[James Wilkinson Sword]

Why would anyone obey a speed limit? It's just a number on a sign.

--
War is god's way of teaching Americans geography -- Ambrose Bierce

[James Wilkinson Sword]

The thing is it's legal.

[James Wilkinson Sword]

Or it's a sign that they're real people instead of the fake plastic ones most of us are living in "civilisation" with a MacDonalds round the corner when you're hungry.

--
Pokemon (n), a Rastafarian proctologist.

[James Wilkinson Sword]

On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 02:47:47 -0000, rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:

> On 01/25/2018 10:23 AM, NY wrote:
>> There was an exception to this rule. In 2000 or 2001, when there were
>> fuel shortages on the forecourts due to strikes at the refineries
>
> Is 'forecourt' common British usage? Other than trolling Sword

Why do you answer every one of my pots if you consider me a troll?

--
The Royal Family have been declared bankrupt after receiving Richard III's parking fine.

[James Wilkinson Sword]

So you call a liquid a gas then get confused when you actually have a gas. Please learn basic English.

--
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
- Epicurus (341- 270 BC)

[James Wilkinson Sword]

On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 15:22:29 -0000, rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:

> On 01/26/2018 07:20 AM, bol...@cylonHQ.com wrote:
>> On 26 Jan 2018 13:08:07 GMT
>> Bob Eager <news...@eager.cx> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 19:47:47 -0700, rbowman wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 01/25/2018 10:23 AM, NY wrote:
>>>>> There was an exception to this rule. In 2000 or 2001, when there were
>>>>> fuel shortages on the forecourts due to strikes at the refineries
>>>>
>>>> Is 'forecourt' common British usage? Other than trolling Sword I can
>>>> usually translate but that one threw me. We might say 'pump island' if
>>>> it was necessary to differentiate that are a for some reason but
>>>> typically it would just be 'gas station' or just 'station' if it was
>>>> obvious you were talking about fuel. Forecourt sounds like something to
>>>> do with tennis or palaces.
>>>
>>> Forecourt is the part of a petrol station/garage where the pumps are. It
>>> is common usage.
>>
>> Pump island sounds like somewhere Club 18-30 would advertise "special"
>> holidays!
>
> Don't know what Club 18-30 is

Get out more.

> but with the newer pumps showing snatches
> of TV programs as you pump, if it has something to do with porn we're ready.

Your country is seriously fucked. Why would I want to watch TV while filling with petrol?

--
What's the best thing to get for a woman who has everything?
A man to show her how to work it.

[rbowman]

On 01/26/2018 04:28 AM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <fcvj69...@mid.individual.net>,
> rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:
>> On 01/25/2018 10:23 AM, NY wrote:
>>> There was an exception to this rule. In 2000 or 2001, when there were
>>> fuel shortages on the forecourts due to strikes at the refineries
>
>> Is 'forecourt' common British usage? Other than trolling Sword I can
>> usually translate but that one threw me. We might say 'pump island' if
>> it was necessary to differentiate that are a for some reason but
>> typically it would just be 'gas station' or just 'station' if it was
>> obvious you were talking about fuel. Forecourt sounds like something to
>> do with tennis or palaces.
>
> It probably dates back to when working garages sold petrol, and the pumps
> were at the front of the garage.
>
> Not so applicable to the average filling station these days.
>

Around here the pumps are sort of an afterthought to the casino and
convenience store. I think there might be one actual garage left in town.

When I graduated college I briefly thought about that as a career path
but that was fifty years ago. Later in life I thought about buying an
old school garage, not as a business but for my own use. Two bays, a
hydraulic lift, and an office space that could be converted into an
apartment. What's not to like? Unfortunately, most come with leaking
in-ground tanks that are an environmental disaster that costs a fortune
to make right.

[soup]

On 25/01/2018 03:09, rbowman wrote:
> On 01/24/2018 09:29 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
>> It's amazing anyone buys those unreliable badly designed things.  The
>> parent company, Rover, went bankrupt years ago.  My neighbour's car is a
>> top of the range Rover.  The headlight switch is in a non standard
>> position, I had to ask her where it was.  Then when I tried to reverse
>> it, I found the rear window was a third of the normal height and I had
>> no visibility.

> Tata owns Jaguar Land Rover now. Your former colony know how to build
> vehicles.

I was wondering how Czechoslovakia was a colony until I realised Tata
is not Tatra

[rbowman]

On 01/26/2018 10:56 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 15:20:19 -0000, rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:
>
>> On 01/26/2018 03:44 AM, NY wrote:
>>> I wonder how America will cope if LPG takes off in a big way over there
>>> and they need to distinguish between "gas" (ie LPG, using "gas" in the
>>> sense of vapour) and gasoline, commonly shortened to "gas".
>>
>> Usually we would say LP or propane. I wouldn't call the container in my
>> backyard a gas tank. Even technically it isn't a gas tank although some
>> liquid propane does enter the gaseous phase.
>
> So you call a liquid a gas then get confused when you actually have a
> gas. Please learn basic English.
>

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline#Etymology_and_terminology

According to that we were calling it gasoline before you were calling it
petrol. Learn from your betters.

[rbowman]

On 01/26/2018 08:39 AM, bol...@cylonHQ.com wrote:
> Its a holiday company for people from 18 to 30 years old. Its holidays are
> in cheap resorts and were really just an excuse for young people to meet up
> get drunk and have sex next to the meditteranean. Though how its doing these
> days with Tinder around is anyones guess.

That sounds like fun. I've never had sex next to the Mediterranean or
anything else next to it for that matter. Does the North Atlantic on the
coast of Maine count? You have to pick your site carefully, a shallow,
sun warmed backwater or it's colder than hell.

[rbowman]

On 01/26/2018 10:57 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
>
> Your country is seriously fucked. Why would I want to watch TV while
> filling with petrol?

I've wondered that myself especially since it never seems to be
continuous, just disjointed clips. I seldom put more than seven gallons
in the car and even less in the bikes but some of the people filling
their Sherman tanks are there long enough to watch three soap operas
back to back. I'd hate to see what the final cost is.

[rbowman]

On 01/26/2018 08:50 AM, bol...@cylonHQ.com wrote:
> Ray Mears was less than complimentary about Grylls techniques a few years back.
> I've never bought into the whole Bear Grylls myth myself. He always struck me
> as a public school boy playing at being a survivalist rather than actually
> being one and I'm deeply suspicious of his supposed SAS service. Wouldn't
> surprise me if he was an officer who spent most of his time directing stuff
> rather than doing it.

I've never seen Mears but I would agree with him. I spend a good deal of
time hiking alone in the back country where the odds of anyone coming
along are slim. First rule: don't pull some stupid stunt where you might
injure yourself.

[rbowman]

On 01/26/2018 09:11 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
> Why would anyone obey a speed limit? It's just a number on a sign.

Speeding tickets? This state didn't have a daytime speed limit until
about 15 years ago but most people didn't do much more than 80 anyway.
Even at 80 the fuel economy in my car drops from the high 30's to 29-30
mpg and the bikes aren't much better. Beside that a bike at 90 often
isn't the most pleasant ride in the world.

[rbowman]

On 01/26/2018 10:55 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 02:47:47 -0000, rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:
>
>> On 01/25/2018 10:23 AM, NY wrote:
>>> There was an exception to this rule. In 2000 or 2001, when there were
>>> fuel shortages on the forecourts due to strikes at the refineries
>>
>> Is 'forecourt' common British usage? Other than trolling Sword
>
> Why do you answer every one of my pots if you consider me a troll?
>

I didn't say that. I said I enjoy trolling you. It's a more productive
way to work off my aggression than the time honored American method of
shooting up a gay nightclub.

[rbowman]

Not even a little bit. Tata has their fingers in many pies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tata_Nano

That was a good idea that didn't pan out.

[Steve Walker]

One difference is that you can click the pump on and then pass the time
'til it clicks off at full, whereas here it is mandated that the pin is
removed, so we have to continuously hold the nozzle to keep it pumping -
I really should carry a removeable pin!

SteveW

[rbowman]

On 01/27/2018 01:07 PM, Steve Walker wrote:
> One difference is that you can click the pump on and then pass the time
> 'til it clicks off at full, whereas here it is mandated that the pin is
> removed, so we have to continuously hold the nozzle to keep it pumping -
> I really should carry a removeable pin!

Back when stations started going to self service there was a gadget to
hold the nozzle on. It was a very simple piece of flat plastic that you
could put on your key ring or you could even make yourself out of a wood
lath.

A search shows similar things are still available but they are more
complex. I'm not sure why. Most of the states I travel in have the
latches incorporated in the nozzle. California does not but I have no
reason to go there since my brother died.

[James Wilkinson Sword]

There's an old garage 1 mile from me. It's not served petrol for the 17 years I've lived here, although the pumps were never removed. It appears to have one man and one lift, I take my car there sometimes. It's an old bloke who appears to do it more for fun than profit, my last bill was £10 for repairing an exhaust.

--
Peter is listening to The Who - Behind Blue Eyes

[James Wilkinson Sword]

Gasoline I accept, but making a shorter word which is actually another contradictory word is stupid.

--
If you believe in telepathy, raise my hand.

[James Wilkinson Sword]

I've done it on a nudist beach on the Mediterranean. Well near a nudist beach. I hadn't bothered getting dressed to go for a long walk and went into the clothed area. Sunbathing naked in the dunes caused some quite welcome attention from a passing French woman.

--
"Flashlights are tubular metal containers kept in a flight bag for the purpose of storing dead batteries."

[James Wilkinson Sword]

I hike naked in out of the way places, but there's always someone who appears out of nowhere. Today a dogwalker simply said "good afternoon". I was lost for words, I usually get a compliment, an insult, or an exclamation of horror.

--
Pilot to tower, pilot to tower, I am 300 miles from land, 600 feet over water, and running out of fuel, please instruct!
Tower to pilot, tower to pilot, repeat after me: "Our Father, which art in heaven....."

[James Wilkinson Sword]

On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 03:05:00 -0000, rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:

> On 01/26/2018 09:11 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
>> Why would anyone obey a speed limit? It's just a number on a sign.
>
> Speeding tickets?

Get a satnav with the camera locations.

> This state didn't have a daytime speed limit until
> about 15 years ago but most people didn't do much more than 80 anyway.
> Even at 80 the fuel economy in my car drops from the high 30's to 29-30
> mpg and the bikes aren't much better. Beside that a bike at 90 often
> isn't the most pleasant ride in the world.

Funny how most bikers frequently go over 100. You oughta get a newer bike.

--
For Sale: Parachute. Only used once, never opened, small stain.

[Steve Walker]

All the nozzles here have the latching mechanism built in (standard
design), but the pin that it locks to is removed, with just the holes
where it should be remaining.

SteveW

[rbowman]

You're just jealous because calling petrol 'pet' would be rather stupid
although I suppose it would make sense for the petcock on a motorcycle.
'turn the cock to shut off the pet.'

[rbowman]

On 01/27/2018 04:39 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
> I hike naked in out of the way places, but there's always someone who
> appears out of nowhere. Today a dogwalker simply said "good
> afternoon". I was lost for words, I usually get a compliment, an
> insult, or an exclamation of horror.

While I understand you can raise your body temperature like a swami,
were you hiking naked around here today you would have snow melting on
your wedding tackle.

[rbowman]

Never spent much time on a bike, have you? 100 mph with gusty side winds
will keep you busy -- if it doesn't blow you into the path of that lorry
full of Peek Freans.

[rbowman]

On 01/27/2018 05:18 PM, Steve Walker wrote:
> All the nozzles here have the latching mechanism built in (standard
> design), but the pin that it locks to is removed, with just the holes
> where it should be remaining.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2155974/The-non-drip-petrol-nozzle-protect-forecourts-trousers-save-world-half-billion-litres-petrol.html

From that it looks like a slightly different design. In the US there is
a strip with detents on the bottom rail that engage a flipper on the
actuating handle. For the states that don't allow hands-off filling the
strip is removed.

Green? That would be another translation difficulty for Yanks. There is
no formal requirement but the diesel nozzles usually are green. There
are jokes about dim liberals filling their Priuses with diesel because
they thought the green meant it was environmentally friendly fuel. In
reality the diesel nozzles are a little wider and won't fit into most
recent petrol filler necks. It's easier and slightly less disastrous to
add petrol to a diesel. A friend's highly educated, well-meaning, but
not too practical son did that to his Merc.

The Merc didn't last long anyway. Bill didn't care for stomping on the
accelerator and not having much of anything happen for a while. Too bad
that when they finally developed a reasonable diesel they were caught
cheating a bit.

[Bob Eager]

On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 18:23:25 -0700, rbowman wrote:

> Green? That would be another translation difficulty for Yanks. There is
> no formal requirement but the diesel nozzles usually are green. There
> are jokes about dim liberals filling their Priuses with diesel because
> they thought the green meant it was environmentally friendly fuel. In
> reality the diesel nozzles are a little wider and won't fit into most
> recent petrol filler necks. It's easier and slightly less disastrous to
> add petrol to a diesel. A friend's highly educated, well-meaning, but
> not too practical son did that to his Merc.

In the UK, the accepted colours are black for diesel, green for unleaded
and red for leaded (as was).

Petrol nozzles won't fit diesel fillers, and diesel nozzles won't fit
petrol fillers, at least in recent years (unless you try *really* hard).

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

[rbowman]

On 01/27/2018 06:28 PM, Bob Eager wrote:
> Petrol nozzles won't fit diesel fillers, and diesel nozzles won't fit
> petrol fillers, at least in recent years (unless you try *really* hard).

I think some diesel fillers are so equipped in the US but it isn't
common yet. Most of the stations I go to also require pushing one of
several buttons to select the product so a person would have to work
hard to screw up. That's not to say there are not plenty of people up to
the task.

[soup]

On 26/01/2018 10:44, NY wrote:

> I'd be wary about using "paved". I tend to think of "paved" as meaning
> covered in a rectangular grid of paving stones, each about a metre
> square - as on a patio or a garden path. However I know that US usage of
> "paved" also includes a large area of concrete or tarmac.

Use "metaled" instead.

[soup]

On 26/01/2018 09:34, Jimbo wrote:
> "The Natural Philosopher" <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message

>> Cars run on petrol or diesel

> or gas ....

or Electricity...

[rbowman]

That sounds more like the temporary steel plates the Air Force uses when
they're trying to build an airstrip in a swamp.

[James Wilkinson Sword]

On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 03:12:05 -0000, rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:

> On 01/26/2018 10:55 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 02:47:47 -0000, rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 01/25/2018 10:23 AM, NY wrote:
>>>> There was an exception to this rule. In 2000 or 2001, when there were
>>>> fuel shortages on the forecourts due to strikes at the refineries
>>>
>>> Is 'forecourt' common British usage? Other than trolling Sword
>>
>> Why do you answer every one of my pots if you consider me a troll?
>
> I didn't say that. I said I enjoy trolling you.

I see, a failing of the English language. I thought "trolling" was an adjective for "Sword".

> It's a more productive
> way to work off my aggression than the time honored American method of
> shooting up a gay nightclub.

So you're not really a right wing sensible person like me?

--
Before Murphy's Law, there was IPOIO, the innate perversity of inanimate objects. Inanimate objects move when nobody is looking.

[James Wilkinson Sword]

At least it has back doors. I always laugh at cars with only front doors.

--
What is the punishment for bigamy?
Two mother-in-laws.

[James Wilkinson Sword]

Which is why we didn't shorten it, but you guys just didn't think.

> although I suppose it would make sense for the petcock on a motorcycle.
> 'turn the cock to shut off the pet.'

See sig below:

--
Seen on a tap in a Finnish washroom:
To stop the drip, turn cock to right.

[James Wilkinson Sword]

I like being naked in the snow. All humans are warmblooded and it really doesn't matter what temperature you are. I was swimming in the sea the other day, not far above freezing point. It felt nice. And why do people not like shivering?

--
What would you do if you had enough money to send half the niggers back to Africa?
Send them all back, half way.