Are there *any* honest car salesmen?
Ret.
tomorrow). For unusual reasons, explained elsewhere, I test-drove the car at
one VW dealership in Warrington - but actually bought it (the same car)
through the VW dealership in Liverpool.
I told them I would put down a hefty deposit and finance the rest. The
salesman at Warrington told me that VW finance had a special offer on at the
moment - if I financed a minimum of Ł5000, I would receive two free services
and free MOTs for life. I opted to borrow that minimum to avoid the need to
lose interest by cashing in a fixed term bond early.
When I went over to Liverpool to deal with the salesman there, he told me
exactly the same thing and was even more explicit, pointing out that the
interest cost of the loan would be heavily offset via the two free services
and the free MOTs for life.
Browsing the net this afternoon for all things VW, I come across another VW
dealer's site that explains the deal a little more precisely. There are
indeed two free annual services included with the finance - but the 'free
MOTs for life' are only for the life of the finance plan! In other words,
as my loan agreement is for three years, my free MOTs for life is the
equivalent of just one MOT!!
I'm not overly concerned about this because in my local town the MOT centres
are falling over themselves to offer discount MOTs. The last three MOTs on
my 75 cost me Ł29.99 each so hardly a major expense. It's the dishonesty
and deliberate deception that is so annoying, however. They'll tell you
anything to get a sale!
The salesman also told me that if I wanted to pay off the loan early (which
I well might), I could do so without any financial penalty, and without
losing my entitlement to the free servicing. I've just read a complaint on a
motoring forum from another VW owner who was told the same thing by his
salesman - but when he tried to re-finance the deal elsewhere he was told
that he would lose the free services.
I've just had to confirm with the salesman that the free mats he's including
will be genuine VW mats for the Golf. When I once bought a nearly-new Omega
I was offered free mats and mudflaps. When I went to collect the car the
mudflaps were cheap and nasty shiny black plastic things and the mats were
the cheapest you could get in any accessory shop. They had blue binding
around the edges - and the car was dark green! I didn't want to get caught
out on that one again!
The two free services *will* heavily offset the interest charge on the
loan - and I still think I've got a good deal - but this sort of thing
leaves a nasty taste in your mouth.
--
Kev
Mike P
To answer your question in the subject.. no, they're all lying shysters. I
wouldn't trust a single one.
I've never had a bad experience buying private, despite the tat I often
buy. I've had nothing but bother with dealers, including one who sent his
gorilla round to sort me out , refund me (-£40 for a day's "hire" of the
car) and leave.
Sadly, said gorilla hadn't bargained on meeting my then wife, who is not
only a black belt, but had one hell of a temper. He ended up walking back
to his boss, and my wife drove the car back. He wouldn't get in it with her
--
Mike P
Ret.
LOL!
Yes. Over the years I've had nothing but hassle and aggravation from
dealerships - both in relation to sales and to servicing - which is one of
the reason that, once the car is out of warranty, I do all my own servicing.
First it costs less. Secondly I know it's been done properly. Thirdly it
completely removes the inevitable stressful disputes with the garage about
what they haven't done (but should have done), and how they've left oil all
over the seats and carpets, etc. I absolutely loathe having dealings with
garages.
I may yet live to regret this decision to change car...!
--
Kev
JNugent
every afternoon for an hour ("Wheelers And Dealers").
He buys a "modern classic" privately for next to nowt, then buys a load of
replacement (new/reconditioned) parts for it and gets his engineer Edd China
to do massive overhauls of the machanical side and the bodywork.
Then he marks up a restored (or at least, heavily refurbished) car by just a
couple of hundred (nothing added for all the man-hours and garage-hours
expended) - then lets a buyer knock him down by at least half of that.
Mike P
> Mike P wrote:
>> On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 18:20:37 +0000, Ret. boggled us with:
>>
>> To answer your question in the subject.. no, they're all lying
>> shysters. I wouldn't trust a single one.
>>
>> I've never had a bad experience buying private, despite the tat I often
>> buy. I've had nothing but bother with dealers, including one who sent
>> his gorilla round to sort me out , refund me (-£40 for a day's "hire"
>> of the car) and leave.
>>
>> Sadly, said gorilla hadn't bargained on meeting my then wife, who is
>> not only a black belt, but had one hell of a temper. He ended up
>> walking back to his boss, and my wife drove the car back. He wouldn't
>> get in it with her
>
> LOL!
>
> Yes. Over the years I've had nothing but hassle and aggravation from
> dealerships
Having trained in one for a couple of years, that doesn't surprise me one
bit. That's why I don't touch them at all unless it really is the best
choice - Genuine Ford parts, for example, are usually the best price at
the dealer, but I haven't had a Ford for some time not. Genuine Citroen
parts for my car are laughably overpriced
I've never had a problem buying privately. I suppose the fact that I know
what I'm buying, and it's usually "enthusiast" stuff - odd Xantias, XMs,
Saab 900s that I go for. This also means it's often an enthusiast/weirdo I
buy it off, so they'll often tell me what is wrong with it first, or if I
ask, I'll get an honest answer. The only time I got stung was with my
current Xantia which was "mint". The heater blower didn't work when I
turned up to view it. I mentioned it, he knocked me £50 off. When I drove
round the corner, I reattached the live feed to it..
--
Mike P
Adrian
much like they were saying:
> I've never had a problem buying privately. I suppose the fact that I
> know what I'm buying, and it's usually "enthusiast" stuff - odd Xantias,
> XMs, Saab 900s that I go for. This also means it's often an
> enthusiast/weirdo I buy it off
I bought an XM off RichardK, who used to post in various groups...
Adrian
> That proves my point (sorry Richard, if you're still lurking)
It wasn't necessarily intended to disprove it...
> ISTR that would be the one I almost swapped a Capri for - it had about
> 120k on it and a leaky exhaust manifold at the time and some other
> maladies..
Aye, that's the one.
I've never seen a rotten XM before. And it burst a hydraulic pipe half
way home. Still, it was bought as a breaker...
Mike Tomlinson
<x...@gmail.com> writes
>I've just had to confirm with the salesman that the free mats he's including
>will be genuine VW mats for the Golf. When I once bought a nearly-new Omega
>I was offered free mats and mudflaps. When I went to collect the car the
>mudflaps were cheap and nasty shiny black plastic things and the mats were
>the cheapest you could get in any accessory shop.
A (BMW) Mini dealer tried to pull the same trick on my Mum when she
bought a used Mini under their Cherished Car scheme.
Fortunately, I went with her and insisted that the salesman notarise the
invoice with "new set of original MINI car mats" and append the BMW part
number to stop them weaselling out of that one.
He also gave her a very hard sell for some insurance plan - it covered
the car for replacement with new if it got written off in the first
year. On paper it looked like a good deal but the premium was
extortionate (near 400 quid IIRC). Obviously being sold hard for the
commission.
--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
Ret.
My main enthusiasm for buying 'nearly new' is because it is as close as you
can get to a number of years of trouble free motoring. This is not always
the case, I know, because my first 75 and a nearly-new Omega I once bought,
were both very troublesome. The second advantage of such cars, however, is
that you can get the early problems sorted free of charge via the several
years of warranty left.
The 75 that I will be handing over in just under two hours time has been
superb. In 6.5 years of motoring it has only been off the road for six hours
while having a replacement alternator fitted. Apart from normal servicing,
which I have done myself, the only other replacement was new battery which,
of course, I replaced myself.
If my (nearly) new Golf serves me as well as this I will be very satisfied.
I used to enjoy working on my cars - I really don't any more! I just want
something that will sit there waiting to be started and will run reliably
without constant attention.
--
Kev
Ret.
I checked yesterday with the salesman and he has assured me that my free
mats will indeed be pukka VW mats for the Golf. I was also pushed to buy
this 'gap' insurance (for £349) but a search on the internet found that I
could get the same cover for £117 (if I wanted it...).
The chances of my car being completely written off within the next three
years are pretty remote.
--
Kev
Dave Plowman
Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> On 2010-11-23, Ret. <x...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > but this sort of thing
> > leaves a nasty taste in your mouth.
> Indeed. But there is at least one honest car salesman in the world, and
> I've just bought my 5th successive Land Rover from him.
I visited a local Land Rover main dealer (Lookers, Battersea) to get an
inlet manifold gasket for my SD1. I'd bought a couple of pattern ones
locally which didn't fit. It's a steel pressing which fits between the
heads and forms a cover for the space between the two halfs of the 'V'.
No queuing up at the stores counter. Was sat down at a desk in the
showroom. Where a chap in a suit served me. Cost 28 quid. Three times the
price I expected. But at least it did fit.
--
*And don't start a sentence with a conjunction *
Dave Plowman da...@davesound.co.uk London SW 12
GT
news:4cec0603$0$410$882e...@usenet-news.net...
> As previously mentioned, I have just bought a VW Golf (picking it up
> tomorrow). For unusual reasons, explained elsewhere, I test-drove the car
> at one VW dealership in Warrington - but actually bought it (the same car)
> through the VW dealership in Liverpool.
>
> I told them I would put down a hefty deposit and finance the rest. The
> salesman at Warrington told me that VW finance had a special offer on at
> the moment - if I financed a minimum of Ł5000, I would receive two free
> services and free MOTs for life. I opted to borrow that minimum to avoid
> the need to lose interest by cashing in a fixed term bond early.
>
> When I went over to Liverpool to deal with the salesman there, he told me
> exactly the same thing and was even more explicit, pointing out that the
> interest cost of the loan would be heavily offset via the two free
> services and the free MOTs for life.
>
> Browsing the net this afternoon for all things VW, I come across another
> VW dealer's site that explains the deal a little more precisely. There are
> indeed two free annual services included with the finance - but the 'free
> MOTs for life' are only for the life of the finance plan! In other words,
> as my loan agreement is for three years, my free MOTs for life is the
> equivalent of just one MOT!!
If its truely false advertising and the smallprint wasn't made clear to you
at the point of sale, then report them!
GT
No No No No - never say that - you can never control what is going on behind
you and to your sides!
Steve Firth
> I want another. It'll have to be a diesel though. I'm considering buying
> wifey something souless and nearly new after xmas. The Activa can go and
> sit in my brother's garage until I can be arsed to sort it properly.
I was very tempted by the C6.
But then I compared it to the XF. Same engine in both cars (at the age
I'd probably buy) but: Cit is slower - a lot slower, thirstier and
despite the vertical depreciation not cheap enough to be a throwaway
purchase. And both cars are the same insurance group.
Steve Firth
> To answer your question in the subject.. no, they're all lying shysters. I
> wouldn't trust a single one.
And it's worth noting that Kevin is paying over the odds for "his" Golf,
but the salesment told him it was a bargain... and he believed that.
It seems to be over priced by £1000 for the model, mileage and year.
Although someone with a wiser head would have bought same mileage, one
year older and saved £5k on the price that Kevin "Bargain" Lunn is
paying. £5k for a years motoring is more than I pay to keep a gas[1]
guzzler on the road.
[1] Literally.
Steve Firth
>
> No queuing up at the stores counter. Was sat down at a desk in the
> showroom. Where a chap in a suit served me. Cost 28 quid. Three times the
> price I expected. But at least it did fit.
It was the spares prices, and the frequent need for them, that saw me
ditch Land Rover in favour of Ford. I've not been dissapointed over the
last 12 years of ownership, few spares needed and those only for
worn-out parts. Cost of spares very reasonable. Availability easy and
ease of doing the work much better than on the Landie.
Steve Firth
> My main enthusiasm for buying 'nearly new'
You mean "second hand", HTH.
Mike Barnes
>The 75 that I will be handing over in just under two hours time has
>been superb. In 6.5 years of motoring it has only been off the road for
>six hours while having a replacement alternator fitted. Apart from
>normal servicing, which I have done myself, the only other replacement
>was new battery which, of course, I replaced myself.
>
>If my (nearly) new Golf serves me as well as this I will be very
>satisfied. I used to enjoy working on my cars - I really don't any
>more! I just want something that will sit there waiting to be started
>and will run reliably without constant attention.
If it's any encouragement, the Audi A3 sitting in our garage is six
years old and the only thing that has ever gone wrong with it is a wheel
bearing at about 10K miles (warranty job). Just before its third
birthday I considered whether there was anything I could get done before
the warranty ran out, and I couldn't think of a damned thing.
Yes, it needs servicing every 18K miles, but each time the dealer has
taken it away in the morning and brought it back the same day.
--
Mike Barnes
Ret.
That's nice to know Mike - thanks for that!
--
Kev
Ret.
Indeed. It's been a day of cock-ups and disaster today.
I arrived at Liverpool VW to pick up my car. Salesman welcomed me and said
he would bring the car around. He was gone longer than I expected and then,
when he returned, asked to wait a few more minutes and vanished into an
office.
He then came out - said my car was ready for inspection outside and he would
leave me to check it over. I went out to it and was pleased to see that it
had been prepared to a high standard. It had been beautifully valeted and
prepared - looked like brand new inside and out - but......... the parking
sensors that I had ordered had not been fitted.
Went back in and spoke to the salesman who feigned astonishment (but I have
no doubt that this was what the delay had been about). He apologised
profusely and said that if I took the car home he would arrange for it to be
picked up at my convenience, replaced with a courtesy car, and the sensors
fitted. I agreed to this and, after all the paperwork was done, drove home.
When I arrive home I start checking everything and find that the space-saver
spare wheel is missing (my fault for not checking at the garage).
So phone up again and told that will be sorted at the same time.
I then decide to try getting my new car into the garage. Bear in mind that I
have had Cavaliers, an Omega, and a Rover 75 in and out of that garage for
twenty years without problem.
The first issue was the DSG gearbox which does not behave at all like a
conventional auto when trying to 'creep' - particularly up a sloping drive.
Take your foot off the footbrake on an upward slope and the car will hold
until you apply throttle. If, however, you only have a very light throttle,
the car will immediately roll backwards - and so it requires a degree of
throttle to engage the clutch plates and get the car moving forward. Ease
off the throttle at all and the clutch disengages again and the car rolls
backward again! I've no doubt I'll get used to it - but it's certainly a
different technique to a conventional auto.
Anyway - after a lot of forwarding and backing, I get the car into the
garage - only to find that because the driver's door is in a different
position to the Rover - I cannot open it wide enough to get out because of a
breeze block I have against the garage wall. So I have to reverse out to
move the block. Reversing was easier because it was on the flat but,
although the car itself is narrower than the Rover, it seems the wing
mirrors stick out a bit further...
Suddenly there is a crunch, and the back of my offside wing mirror is ripped
off on the garage door frame...
The body-colour top part of the mirror back comes off but is undamaged - but
the lower part (which of course contains the LED side repeater lens and
bulbs...) is pretty well bust up. What a bugger...
Anyway - I've contacted the garage again, told them what has happened, and
suggested that in view of the hassle they have caused me today re the
missing parking sensors and spare wheel, they might feel inclined to put
right my mirror foc. He's going to get back to me...
I just hope they have the mirror part in and I don't have to wait months for
it.
Apart from all that - the car goes great and I'm chuffed with it!!!
--
Kev
Adrian
saying:
> but, although the car itself is narrower than the Rover, it seems the
> wing mirrors stick out a bit further...
Golf VI - 2048mm inc mirrors, 1786mm without
R75 - 1970mm inc mirrors, 1778mm without
Clive George
Oops! Guess that's something to add to a test drive then.
Mike Barnes
>The first issue was the DSG gearbox which does not behave at all like a
>conventional auto when trying to 'creep' - particularly up a sloping
>drive. Take your foot off the footbrake on an upward slope and the car
>will hold until you apply throttle. If, however, you only have a very
>light throttle, the car will immediately roll backwards - and so it
>requires a degree of throttle to engage the clutch plates and get the
>car moving forward. Ease off the throttle at all and the clutch
>disengages again and the car rolls backward again! I've no doubt I'll
>get used to it - but it's certainly a different technique to a
>conventional auto.
I find it's best to use the handbrake, just as I do with a manual
gearbox.
--
Mike Barnes
Adrian
like they were saying:
>>The first issue was the DSG gearbox which does not behave at all like a
>>conventional auto when trying to 'creep'
> I find it's best to use the handbrake, just as I do with a manual
> gearbox.
Probably because the DSG _is_ a manual 'box.
(Well, a pair of 'em strapped together with it all computer controlled,
but...)
Mike Barnes
>Mike Barnes <mikeb...@bluebottle.com> gurgled happily, sounding much
>like they were saying:
>
>>>The first issue was the DSG gearbox which does not behave at all like a
>>>conventional auto when trying to 'creep'
>
>> I find it's best to use the handbrake, just as I do with a manual
>> gearbox.
>
>Probably because the DSG _is_ a manual 'box.
Try expressing your point of view without using the word "is" (or any
other part of the verb 'to be'). That exercise will expose your
sentence's vacuity to you, and might encourage you to say something
meaningful.
--
Mike Barnes
Ret.
Astonishing. The Golf is wider in both respects. I wasn't expecting that!
I went out again an hour ago to my local Indian take-away, and had no
problem with getting out or getting back in. It's just a question of getting
used to the different technique with the DSG gearbox. It's totally different
from a conventional slush box.
I'm still feeling pretty ticked off with myself. I can't believe that I
moved an Omega in and out of my garage without problem - and then catch the
mirror on a Golf! Looking at the damaged part it's clear that I caught the
clear repeater lens by about 1/8th of an inch! The clear lens sticks out
very slightly from the main part of the mirror. How embarassing.
I'm sure that I'll laugh about this it months to come...!!
Overall, however, I am very pleased with my purchase. The drive back into
Cheshire from Liverpool was very enjoyable.
A young lad who lives across the road from my house came across earlier to
ask what I thought of my Golf and the TSi engine. I know him well having
loaned him tools in the past. I was not aware but he is a trainee
fleet-sales rep at the Warrington VW dealers. That might come in useful!
--
Kev
Ret.
True in a way - although, of course, you have no accurate control over the
clutch other than via the throttle. Even if you select first gear via the
'Tiptronic' manual change - you still have no manual clutch pedal of course.
It's a totally different technique from either manual or traditional
'torque-converter' autos. I'm getting there however!
Interesting performance match here between a Golf R manual and DSG. The DSG
is faster 0-60mph.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRwfvnDt7BA
--
Kev
Mike P
> "Ret." <x...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4cec0603$0$410$882e...@usenet-news.net...
>> As previously mentioned, I have just bought a VW Golf (picking it up
>> tomorrow). For unusual reasons, explained elsewhere, I test-drove the
>> car at one VW dealership in Warrington - but actually bought it (the
>> same car) through the VW dealership in Liverpool.
>>
>> I told them I would put down a hefty deposit and finance the rest. The
>> salesman at Warrington told me that VW finance had a special offer on
>> at the moment - if I financed a minimum of £5000, I would receive two
>> free services and free MOTs for life. I opted to borrow that minimum to
>> avoid the need to lose interest by cashing in a fixed term bond early.
>>
>> When I went over to Liverpool to deal with the salesman there, he told
>> me exactly the same thing and was even more explicit, pointing out that
>> the interest cost of the loan would be heavily offset via the two free
>> services and the free MOTs for life.
>>
>> Browsing the net this afternoon for all things VW, I come across
>> another VW dealer's site that explains the deal a little more
>> precisely. There are indeed two free annual services included with the
>> finance - but the 'free MOTs for life' are only for the life of the
>> finance plan! In other words, as my loan agreement is for three years,
>> my free MOTs for life is the equivalent of just one MOT!!
>
> If its truely false advertising and the smallprint wasn't made clear to
> you at the point of sale, then report them!
For what exactly? If it's in the small print, then it's Kev's fault for
not reading it properly in the first place. Sad, but true.
--
Mike P
Ret.
True enough - but you don't see the small print until the last minute. Both
salesmen stated the same thing - if you take out VW finance for at least
£5k, then you will receive two free annual services and free mots for life.
There was no qualification to that last statement and most people would
regard 'free mots for life' - to mean for the length of time you own the
vehicle.
In most cases, purchasers will not realise the restriction (ie - the free
mots are for the life of the loan agreement) until they reach the end of the
agreement. By then, several years later, they will just be told that they
must have misunderstood what the salesman told them...
It's outrageous - but par for the course for car salespeople.
My son worked for a short while as a trainee car sales exec. He packed it in
because he was simply not prepared to accept the dishonesty that is so
inherent in the business.
He worked for a main dealer (Lookers) and was appalled by what he saw.
Customers buying a used car would be told that their car would be given a
'full service' before collection. In fact, all that would be done would be
an oil change and nothing else at all, because this was the only thing that
could realistically be checked by a purchaser. The old oil filter would be
cleaned up to look new, but not removed.
Promises would be made - but rarely kept. It was difficult, if not
impossible, for disgruntled customers to get redress because the entire
company from bottom to top endorsed these methods.
--
Kev
Adrian
saying:
> I'm sure that I'll laugh about this it months to come...!!
Once you've got over the horror at the price of the mirror...
Sweepstake time?
I'll go for £350.
Adrian
saying:
> True enough - but you don't see the small print until the last minute.
You should be able to. Just ask.
> Both salesmen stated the same thing - if you take out VW finance for at
> least £5k, then you will receive two free annual services and free mots
> for life.
Two seconds on google finds the "free MOT for life" is qualified by "of
the service plan".
> There was no qualification to that last statement and most people would
> regard 'free mots for life' - to mean for the length of time you own
> the vehicle.
Like Vauxhall's "lifetime" warranty, y'mean?
GT
news:8l57g6...@mid.individual.net...
If the offer was only verbal, or was only shown to you in an advert with no
small print, then you have a case for false advertising or being falsely
sold something (whatever the legal term is for that!)
Adrian
> If the offer was only verbal, or was only shown to you in an advert with
> no small print, then you have a case for false advertising or being
> falsely sold something (whatever the legal term is for that!)
If the offer was only verbal, step one is proving it.
GT
news:8l5dd8...@mid.individual.net...
No - I meant if the offer was only verbal in the first place, then the
finance agreement were signed and paperwork followed later including the
small print - If you had nothing on paper you would have a hard job even
claiming the free MOT!
Ret.
I've just been trying to piece it together with super-glue! If the garage
wont recompense me for the hassle of forgetting to fit the parking sensors,
and failing to ensure that there was a spare wheel, by replacing the broken
part foc. And if the price is extortionate - then I'll try and fit it back
together myself.
The broken parts are on the inside and once the body-colour top and the
black bottom (with LED repeater lens) are put together, then from the
outside it looks fine.
One problem is that the screws holding the back in place are inside the
housing. To get at them I would have to remove the mirror glass. I've just
watched a Youtube video of the process and it looks easy enough...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgqPHMg6D4s&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Po2_h3Jalg&feature=related
The main body of the mirror - and the glass, and the body-coloured top to
the curved back, are fine - it's just the lower black plastic part of the
mirror back (front?!) that is damaged. So long as I can stop water getting
into the lens then I feel fairly certain I can get it all back together
without any sign that anything has happened.
If the dealer agrees to do it at their expense - then of course I will
accept their offer! Somehow I doubt it however. They've got their sale
now...
--
Kev
Ret.
> "Ret." <x...@gmail.com> gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
> saying:
>
>> True enough - but you don't see the small print until the last
>> minute.
>
> You should be able to. Just ask.
>
>> Both salesmen stated the same thing - if you take out VW finance for
>> at least £5k, then you will receive two free annual services and
>> free mots for life.
>
> Two seconds on google finds the "free MOT for life" is qualified by
> "of the service plan".
Indeed - which is what I did when I got home - and took it up with the
salesman. He assured me that he had no intent to deceive...
>
>> There was no qualification to that last statement and most people
>> would regard 'free mots for life' - to mean for the length of time
>> you own the vehicle.
>
> Like Vauxhall's "lifetime" warranty, y'mean?
LOL! Yes - a bit like that.
--
Kev
Adrian
saying:
>>> There was no qualification to that last statement and most people
>>> would regard 'free mots for life' - to mean for the length of time you
>>> own the vehicle.
>> Like Vauxhall's "lifetime" warranty, y'mean?
> LOL! Yes - a bit like that.
Mmm. The Vauxhall "lifetime" (or 100k miles, whichever comes first)
warranty...
Ret.
I do definitely have two free services - although there is a 24 months and
20k mile cap on that! My first will be due next March, however, and the
next one March 2012 so well within the two years and I wont have done 20k
miles before March 2012.
I will manage to squeeze one free MOT in!
--
Kev
Ret.
> On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 21:36:05 +0000, Ret. waffled:
>
>> And if the price is extortionate
>
> quick google for spare mirrors. They're not cheap, and none of those
> were dealer prices.
>
> In 15 years when they're freely available at GSF, I might be
> interested in a MK6 Golf..
:-)
It *is* a nice car - and I have yet to read or view a review that is not
overwhelmingly positive.
I wanted something worthy to replace my 75 and this seems to be it -
although I've lost some refinements. No more leather, no more heated seats,
no more electrically adjusted seats with 3 position memory, no dual zone
climate control.
The SE Golf has 'Climatic' air con which seems to be semi-automatic. It
maintains a set temperature - but you have to set flaps and fan speed
manually. I'll get used to it - but on the way home I couldn't get warm air
to my feet and cool air out of the face-level vents (as I could with the
Rover). If the heater is on it seems to be hot air or nothing out of every
orifice.
--
Kev
Dave Plowman
Adrian <tooma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mike Barnes <mikeb...@bluebottle.com> gurgled happily, sounding much
> like they were saying:
> >>The first issue was the DSG gearbox which does not behave at all like a
> >>conventional auto when trying to 'creep'
> > I find it's best to use the handbrake, just as I do with a manual
> > gearbox.
> Probably because the DSG _is_ a manual 'box.
Let me see now. It has a setting whereby the car will accelerate away from
rest going through all the gears with no input from the driver other than
pushing the throttle pedal. But is a manual?
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...
But perhaps the Steptronic ZF torque convertor box on my BMW is a manual
too? You can select any gear you like on that.
> (Well, a pair of 'em strapped together with it all computer controlled,
> but...)
--
*Many people quit looking for work when they find a job *
Dave Plowman da...@davesound.co.uk London SW 12
Adrian
saying:
> I have yet to read or view a review that is not overwhelmingly positive.
Ah, but I seem to recall several discussions about reviews of the R75...
Adrian
they were saying:
> If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...
Kinda the point. Drive it like a duck, and you're going to find yourself
having issues - because it isn't, so doesn't behave like one.
> But perhaps the Steptronic ZF torque convertor box on my BMW is a manual
> too? You can select any gear you like on that.
No, Steptronic is an autobox with manual control.
Ret.
Indeed. I always research my intended car purchases very carefully! It is a
fact that the reviews of the 75 *are* overwhelmingly positive.
The only reason I decided to change was to get a smaller car with better
economy, performance, lower road tax (£125 to the £235 of the Rover).
I have to say, however, that after the debacles of yesterday, I was
beginning to wish I had my Rover back...!
Also, I overlooked the fact that the current Golf is wider than my 75. I was
hoping that getting in and out of the car inside the garage would be easier!
That was one spec that I overlooked.
Just had another look at the damaged section of my door mirror. I've been
piecing the broken bits together with super-glue and it's going well!
Because the broken bits are all on the inside of the lower half-shell
casing, once it's put back together the damage will be completely hidden. My
only concern is that the clear LED repeater lens was broken on the inside
and if I don't seal it properly, I'm going to be getting rainwater inside
it.
--
Kev
Dave Plowman
How would you describe a pre-selector box? Or the the type fitted to a
Model T Ford? It would seem you consider those autos too.
A 'DSG' box is a servo operated synchromesh box. Not a manual.
Here's a dictionary definition of manual:-
Collins GEM English Dictionary
manual adj. of or done with the hands; by human labour rather than
automatic means.
Can't see any good reason to change that...
--
*Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it *
Dave Plowman
Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> > I visited a local Land Rover main dealer (Lookers, Battersea) to get
> > an inlet manifold gasket for my SD1. I'd bought a couple of pattern
> > ones locally which didn't fit. It's a steel pressing which fits
> > between the heads and forms a cover for the space between the two
> > halfs of the 'V'.
> >
> > No queuing up at the stores counter. Was sat down at a desk in the
> > showroom. Where a chap in a suit served me. Cost 28 quid. Three times
> > the price I expected. But at least it did fit.
> Now you know why the cheap ones were cheap ...
Maybe. But my guess is if I'd bought a 'cheap' one from my usual source
mail order it would have been fine. Others before this time have.
--
*No word in the English language rhymes with month, orange, silver,purple
Dave Plowman
Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> On 2010-11-24, Dave Plowman <da...@davesound.co.uk> wrote:
> > In article <8l4vsj...@mid.individual.net>,
> > Adrian <tooma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Mike Barnes <mikeb...@bluebottle.com> gurgled happily, sounding much
> >> like they were saying:
> >
> >> >>The first issue was the DSG gearbox which does not behave at all like a
> >> >>conventional auto when trying to 'creep'
> >
> >> > I find it's best to use the handbrake, just as I do with a manual
> >> > gearbox.
> >
> >> Probably because the DSG _is_ a manual 'box.
> >
> > Let me see now.
> Can we please not do this again?
Too late. ;-)
--
*It was all so different before everything changed.
Ret.
Couldn't be more wrong! I've just checked with VW Warrington parts dept.
Cost is a devastating.................£22.15 inclusive of VAT! That's
cheered me up!
As I said - the main body of the mirror is fine, as is the glass and the
body-coloured upper part. It's just the lower half of the 'shell' that
covers the back of the mirror that's broken. It would have been even cheaper
if it hadn't had the repeater light moulded into it.
--
Kev
Adrian
Ah, right. I got the feeling that you'd actually buggered the mirror
itself, not just a plastic cover. Even so, that's a real surprise given
it contains the light.
Steve Firth
> >> Probably because the DSG _is_ a manual 'box.
> >
> > Let me see now.
>
> Can we please not do this again?
Fight, fight, fight, fight...
Steve Firth
> > No queuing up at the stores counter. Was sat down at a desk in the
> > showroom. Where a chap in a suit served me. Cost 28 quid. Three times the
> > price I expected. But at least it did fit.
>
> Now you know why the cheap ones were cheap ...
Because you're not also paying for several Armani suits and a "free"
coffee when you buy the pattern parts?
Ret.
Absolutely - couldn't quite believe it myself!
I rechecked the damaged part just to make sure that the lower part of the
cover and the repeater light are all one (ie not two parts clipped
together), but so far as I can tell the lens is firmly glued into thr black
shell.
I have managed to get it all back together, having glued most of the broken
pieces with superglue. It looks ok, but I've got holes into the light unit
bunged up with blu-tak on the inside so it's only a temporary fix. I was
grateful for those YouTube videos showing how to get the glass out to get at
the screws inside. Not sure I would have risked it without seeing those!
--
Kev
Steve Firth
>
> My LR is maintained by an oily bloke in a shed, and not by some "technician"
> in the £2M glass and steel palace round the corner. But I still have to pay
> the outrageous prices for (some) spares.
Same here, and much as I loved my SII I decided it had to go when the
repair bill got to £2.500 per annum. Trevor (the oily bloke) was teribly
apologetic about it but he was right every repair he did was essential
and the parts did cost and arm and a leg.
Nick Finnigan
> "Ret."<x...@gmail.com> gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
> saying:
>
>> wing mirrors stick out a bit further...
>
> Golf VI - 2048mm inc mirrors, 1786mm without
> R75 - 1970mm inc mirrors, 1778mm without
Golf height 1479mm, weight 1468kg, tow 1300kg
R75 height 1424mm, weight 1370kg, tow 1200kg
But the golf is shorter.
Halmyre
> On 2010-11-25, Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote:
> > Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> My LR is maintained by an oily bloke in a shed, and not by some "technician"
> >> in the £2M glass and steel palace round the corner. But I still have to pay
> >> the outrageous prices for (some) spares.
> >
> > Same here, and much as I loved my SII I decided it had to go when the
> > repair bill got to £2.500 per annum.
>
> up the running costs; in 8 years it cost us ~£700/yr in maintenance, tyres,
> MOTs, wiper blades & WHY. Everything except RFL, fuel and insurance. (And
> depreciation, of course!)
>
>
Quick check in my records - £550 p.a. over 8 years for my first Alfa 156. Depreciation not
included, thankfully...
--
Halmyre
This is the most powerful sigfile in the world and will probably blow your head clean off.
Steve Firth
> Sh*t. We just traded in our Disco II and I went through the file and totted
> up the running costs; in 8 years it cost us ~£700/yr in maintenance, tyres,
> MOTs, wiper blades & WHY. Everything except RFL, fuel and insurance. (And
> depreciation, of course!)
Yeap, the Ford has cost me £180 a year ever since I got it. There's a
blip this year because I replaced all four wheel bearings, all the brake
callipers, disks and pads and the self-levelling shocks. Since I did it,
the total came to £300. The shocks amazed me... £25 a pair.
I may have had the all-time lemon Landie but something major went every
year for three years on the trot. I sold it for £1500 to someone at work
and one of the half shafts broke the first time they used it off road.
Adrian
much like they were saying:
> I really don't understand why you didn't keep the Rover.
Because he wanted a smaller car, remember?
bolta...@boltar.world
That really shows how cars are just getting fatter and fatter. A while back
I saw a Ford Cortina (in very good nick I must say) and it looked tiny
compared to most cars on the roads now. Even next to superminis it looked
narrow and low albeit longer.
B2003
Adrian
saying:
>>> Golf VI - 2048mm inc mirrors, 1786mm without
>>> R75 - 1970mm inc mirrors, 1778mm without
>> Golf height 1479mm, weight 1468kg, tow 1300kg
>> R75 height 1424mm, weight 1370kg, tow 1200kg
>>
>> But the golf is shorter.
Golf - 4199mm, R75 tourer - 4790mm
> That really shows how cars are just getting fatter and fatter. A while
> back I saw a Ford Cortina (in very good nick I must say) and it looked
> tiny compared to most cars on the roads now. Even next to superminis it
> looked narrow and low albeit longer.
Mk IV/V Cortina...
L 4380, W 1699, H 1367, Wt 1130kg...
Imagine the fuel efficiency of modern vehicles if they'd retained those
dimensions & weights, but received the same engine technology.
ianp...@googlemail.com
<da...@davesound.co.uk> wrote:
>
>I visited a local Land Rover main dealer (Lookers, Battersea) to get an
>inlet manifold gasket for my SD1. I'd bought a couple of pattern ones
>locally which didn't fit. It's a steel pressing which fits between the
>heads and forms a cover for the space between the two halfs of the 'V'.
>
>No queuing up at the stores counter. Was sat down at a desk in the
>showroom. Where a chap in a suit served me. Cost 28 quid. Three times the
>price I expected. But at least it did fit.
Long rant warning...
I needed a gasket to stem an oil leak on Disco td5 recently. I decided
I would do oil/filter/centrifuge replacement at the same time and I
thought the quickest solution was the local dealer. (I like to stick
to genuine parts) It took 42 minutes to get the bits I needed. The
ABSOLUTELY useless parts lad kept coming out to the plush showroom
area with prints from the parts catalogue. The 1st visit was to tell
me the gasket I wanted didn't exist and could I show him it on the
diagram. This was a bit difficult since the diagram was for a Disco 3.
(He had been furnished with the VIN)
The besuited service manager was sat at his desk adding up the lines
and checking the VAT calculation on the computer printed invoices in
front of him - to make it look like he had a job. He made the odd
phone call telling people that their discs were below minimum
thickness and 'can we renew....we'll need to keep the car until
tomorrow'
The 'receptionist' - I think that's what she was - kept walking around
asking anyone if they wanted coffee. At the point where Mr Useless had
taken my money and gone to get my box of bits she asked "are you done,
now?" to which I replied "no, I'm STILL waiting for the parts - 42
minutes for a gasket and some filters. Appalling" to which she replied
that she was sorry but "there is nothing I can do - he's new - it's
not been 42 minutes though" I pointed out that the cup she was just
starting was the third replacement since she had first asked me as I
entered the showroom and that she might be able to work it out from
that.I also suggested that there was something she could do , namely,
at their next daily team meeting she might like to point out that if
he's new, his training is so far very sadly lacking and that the
'experience' (Land Rover are very keen on "Experience's") I had just
had meant that there was no way in hell that I would be crossing the
threshold to buy my replacement vehicle from them in the near future"
This was met with a smile and an embarrassed giggle.
Now, contrast this to LR dealer of a couple of years ago. Go into the
dark corner of the showroom , say "filters for td5 and a xxx gasket"
He'd reach under the counter for the filters, walk to a shelf about 10
feet away for the gasket, come back, do the invoice, knock off some
discount 'cos you're in your dirty clothes and you'd be out in 5
minutes.
Sorry for the rant. Internet dealing for parts in future for me. I
don't usually wish bad things on people or companies but they deserve
to go bust.
Please reply to group - email address is not monitored
Ian
Adrian
saying:
> Now, contrast this to LR dealer of a couple of years ago. Go into the
> dark corner of the showroom , say "filters for td5 and a xxx gasket"
> He'd reach under the counter for the filters, walk to a shelf about 10
> feet away for the gasket, come back, do the invoice, knock off some
> discount 'cos you're in your dirty clothes and you'd be out in 5
> minutes.
> Sorry for the rant. Internet dealing for parts in future for me.
And therein lies the reason, as well as the answer.
There are two main buyers of parts at main dealers.
One is the trade. They've never walked in to the place to collect the
bits anyway. They have a dedicated phone number and a van that comes
round twice a day with what they need.
Which leaves Joe Public. Never particularly numerous, he's become
increasingly rare in recent years as vehicles have become less and less
user-maintainable. Which leaves the subset of Joe Public, the determined
DIYer. Who has enough nous to know that he doesn't have to pay dealer
retail markup, so can order online and receive the same bits both cheaper
and with much less hassle.
That public-facing parts counter is now a waste of space as well as
lowering the tone of the increasingly tarted-up retail environment. It
also acts as a reminder to the new car buyer that their car will cost
them money to maintain.
AlanD
> Because he wanted a smaller car, remember?
........Which turns out to be wider than the old car...!
Really can't see the point of paying £15,000 for a new(er) car to save £110
a year in tax.
Adrian
like they were saying:
>> Because he wanted a smaller car, remember?
> ........Which turns out to be wider than the old car...!
To be fair, he also didn't need such a capable towcar any more.
Oh, wait a sec. This one's heavier (so improving the tow-to-towed weight
ratio) and has a higher towing capacity.
Ret.
> On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 07:47:19 +0000, Ret. waffled:
>
>> Adrian wrote:
>>> "Ret." <x...@gmail.com> gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
>>> saying:
>>>
>>>> I have yet to read or view a review that is not overwhelmingly
>>>> positive.
>>>
>>> Ah, but I seem to recall several discussions about reviews of the
>>> R75...
>>
>> Indeed. I always research my intended car purchases very carefully!
>> It is a fact that the reviews of the 75 *are* overwhelmingly
>> positive.
>>
>> The only reason I decided to change was to get a smaller car with
>> better economy, performance, lower road tax (£125 to the £235 of the
>> Rover).
>
> I've never understood this logic. You had a car you had paid for. It
> was something you really liked.
>
> You've put yourself thousands in debt for the sake of £110 a year
> differential in tax? A bizarre way to save money really.. the
> difference in fuel economy will take aeons to pay back too.
>
> I really don't understand why you didn't keep the Rover.
Despite all the criticism you heaped on it?!!
The Rover was a great car for me and I wanted to get rid while I was ahead
and before I had to start paying out for all the inevitable repairs that
would shortly be required.
--
Kev
Ret.
I couldn't accept that the Golf would be heavier than my much bigger 75
tourer.
I've just checked the stats on Parkers and according to that, my Golf 1.4TSi
DSG is 1241 kg and the Rover 75 Connoisseur SE auto is 1590 kg which seems a
bit more like it.
Also, according to Parkers, the braked towing capacity of the 75 is 1600 kg
not the 1200 kg you quote.
I don't know where you got those figures from!
--
Kev
Adrian
saying:
>> Nick Finnigan <n...@genie.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Golf height 1479mm, weight 1468kg, tow 1300kg R75 height 1424mm,
>>> weight 1370kg, tow 1200kg
> I don't know where you got those figures from!
I didn't.
Clive George
> The Rover was a great car for me and I wanted to get rid while I was
> ahead and before I had to start paying out for all the inevitable
> repairs that would shortly be required.
Are you suggesting your own servicing isn't up to scratch? :-)
The bit I'm interested in is, will your missus drive the new one? If so,
that's a fair reason to change.
AlanD
> The Rover was a great car for me and I wanted to get rid while I was ahead
> and before I had to start paying out for all the inevitable repairs that
> would shortly be required.
...But you've paid £15k for a replacement car. That would be hundereds of
repairs to the Rover over many, many years.
And of course the golf will also need money spending on it for repairs
etc...
And as much as a dislike Rovers, they are far better than many French or
Italian cars, and even then you'd not have to pay that much to keep them
running.
Ret.
She says she will have a go - which is more than can be said for the 75. She
refused point-blank to drive that. She does have a full licence but has not
driven for many years now. I hope that she does start again. Long journeys
down to our relatives in the West Country would be far more relaxing if we
could swap seats occasionally.
--
Kev
Ret.
All fair points of course. But I have not always bought new or nearly new
cars. My early days of motoring involved the use of quite a number of older
cars and it's not just the cost of repairs - it's the hassle of them being
off the road while the repairs are done.
Apart from a replacement alternator my 75 never let me down once. I very
much hope that my new Golf will do as well.
There is also something very satisfying about having a brand new, or nearly
new car. Shiny and sparkling, four good tyres, exhaust that will last for
years, everything tight and rattle free, etc.
--
Kev
Ret.
Sorry!
--
Kev
Nick Finnigan
Google brought up Honest John, and "VW don't tell you". Not sure which
model of R75 it brought up.
More reliably then...
http://www.cuddles.abelgratis.net/volkswagen.htm#golf07 kerb weight > 1323.
Mike P
> Mike P wrote:
>> On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 07:47:19 +0000, Ret. waffled:
>>
>>> Adrian wrote:
>>>> "Ret." <x...@gmail.com> gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
>>>> saying:
>>>>
>>>>> I have yet to read or view a review that is not overwhelmingly
>>>>> positive.
>>>>
>>>> Ah, but I seem to recall several discussions about reviews of the
>>>> R75...
>>>
>>> Indeed. I always research my intended car purchases very carefully! It
>>> is a fact that the reviews of the 75 *are* overwhelmingly positive.
>>>
>>> The only reason I decided to change was to get a smaller car with
>>> better economy, performance, lower road tax (£125 to the £235 of the
>>> Rover).
>>
>> I've never understood this logic. You had a car you had paid for. It
>> was something you really liked.
>>
>> You've put yourself thousands in debt for the sake of £110 a year
>> differential in tax? A bizarre way to save money really.. the
>> difference in fuel economy will take aeons to pay back too.
>>
>> I really don't understand why you didn't keep the Rover.
>
> Despite all the criticism you heaped on it?!!
Each to his own etc...
> The Rover was a great car for me
Yes. For you. Not me. That being so, why didn't you just keep it?
--
Mike P
Ret.
That doesn't cover the Mk Vl which have only been in production since 2009.
--
Kev
Mike P
52cm shorter but wider. Hmmm.
--
Mike P
Clive George
Not sure where the idea that VW don't tell you came from - took me a few
seconds to find it on the VW web site. Kev's model is 1316kg unladen
according to them.
Ret.
TBH I *am* having some tinges of regret at having let it go... !
--
Kev
Adrian
saying:
>> More reliably then...
>> http://www.cuddles.abelgratis.net/volkswagen.htm#golf07 kerb weight >
>> 1323.
> That doesn't cover the Mk Vl which have only been in production since
> 2009.
And which is merely a facelift to the MkV.
Nick Finnigan
Google "Golf VI dimensions"
> seconds to find it on the VW web site. Kev's model is 1316kg unladen
> according to them.
If it is a 3 door SMatch. (But Honest John is clearly a salesman).
Clive George
> On 26/11/2010 20:02, Clive George wrote:
>> On 26/11/2010 19:55, Ret. wrote:
>>> Nick Finnigan wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Google brought up Honest John, and "VW don't tell you". Not sure
>>>> which model of R75 it brought up.
>>>>
>>>> More reliably then...
>>>> http://www.cuddles.abelgratis.net/volkswagen.htm#golf07 kerb weight >
>>>> 1323.
>>>
>>> That doesn't cover the Mk Vl which have only been in production since
>>> 2009.
>>
>> Not sure where the idea that VW don't tell you came from - took me a few
>
> Google "Golf VI dimensions"
Ok, I just did. Got lots of stuff, nothing obvious saying VW don't tell
you. Which page were you thinking of?
Mike P
Parkers seems as good as any
--
Mike P
Clive George
That's an answer to a different question - Parkers tell you, VW tell you
(though with different numbers), but I've not found anybody apart from
Nick saying "VW don't tell you".
Mike P
Sorry Clive. I read it badly. I've got a baby with a chest infection on my
lap..
--
Mike P
Nick Finnigan
>
>>
>> you. Which page were you thinking of?
uk-mkivs.net/forums/p/6165/62915.aspx
not that I am claiming it is at all important or accurate.
> Parkers seems as good as any
Well, no, they seem to be at least 68kg light.
Clive George
NP. Don't put diesel in it :-)
Clive George
> On 26/11/2010 21:11, Mike P wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 20:53:46 +0000, Clive George boggled us with:
>>
>>>
>>> Ok, I just did. Got lots of stuff, nothing obvious saying VW don't tell
>>> you. Which page were you thinking of?
>
> uk-mkivs.net/forums/p/6165/62915.aspx
> not that I am claiming it is at all important or accurate.
(Mark 5, 5 year old post)
We're on usenet - is anything important or accurate? :-)
>> Parkers seems as good as any
>
> Well, no, they seem to be at least 68kg light.
They do seem to be a bit far off. I wonder if their definitions of
"unladen" vary.
Mike P
He's on antibiotics and cocaine for babies, otherwise known as Calpol.
--
Mike P
Ret.
It is a Golf Mk Vl SE 1.4 TSi DSG. Having said that, the Match trim has
replaced the SE trim just recently. It includes extra equipment at not a lot
of extra money. (Perhaps I should have waited for one of those!)
--
Kev
Ret.
Every panel on the car is different and so is they way they build it. They
claimed that the Mk V cost too much to build... Hardly likely to be the
same weight therefore.
--
Kev
Adrian
saying:
>>> That doesn't cover the Mk Vl which have only been in production since
>>> 2009.
>> And which is merely a facelift to the MkV.
> Every panel on the car is different and so is they way they build it.
> They claimed that the Mk V cost too much to build... Hardly likely to
> be the same weight therefore.
That's nice, dear. It's still a facelift to the MkV.