Claud Butler, Peugeot, Raleigh or Trek?
Ian
look at hardtail bikes under Ł300.
I've narrowed it down to 4 choices. Firstly I can stick to my original
choice of Raleigh Max Cromo EFs.
The Trek model I like is the Singletrack 810 priced at Ł229.99. The shop
also had the same model but in different colours for Ł249.99. I think it was
just the wrong price tag.
The Claud Butler I like is the Miura priced at Ł299.99. Looking through
their catalogue I also like the specs of the Virago & Kylami but have no
idea of price.
I've just been looking at the Peugeot catalogue and like the spec of the
Origin 50T priced at Ł299. The only bit it didn't say is whether it has
quick release wheels. I need to find that out.
Any comments on these bikes
TIA
Ian
Myra Van Inwegen
>I've narrowed it down to 4 choices. Firstly I can stick to my original
>choice of Raleigh Max Cromo EFs.
Don't. These bikes are much heavier than they need to be, so they can
big fat tubes that look like expensive alu bikes. In other words, to
look cooler they are made worse (heavier) with no other benefit.
>The Trek model I like is the Singletrack 810 priced at £229.99. The shop
>also had the same model but in different colours for £249.99. I think it was
>just the wrong price tag.
Don't buy this bike. A suspension fork at this price is a bad move, it
will be a lousy sus. fork, and you'd be better off with a plain fork.
May I suggest the Trek 800 at £249.99 which has better bits than the
810. Or else the 800 sport for £199.99, which is has the same bits as
the 810, but is cheaper. If you're considering bikes up to 300 quid,
how about the 820, which has a better frame and bits than any of the
bike mentioned above. In fact, it looks like quite a decent bike!
This is not to suggest that other manufacturers don't make good bikes
(for example, make sure you check out Specialized as well) but I
happen to have a Trek catalog in my office!
--
-Myra VanInwegen
Myra.Va...@cl.cam.ac.uk http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mvi20/bike/
GoFar: The UK's Independent MTB Webzine http://www.gofar.demon.co.uk/
Shaun C. Murray
<i...@thumper88.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> After cancelling my order from my LBS (see my other post) I've had another
> look at hardtail bikes under Ł300.
>
> I've narrowed it down to 4 choices. Firstly I can stick to my original
> choice of Raleigh Max Cromo EFs.
Yuk. Disgustingly bad bike.
>
> The Trek model I like is the Singletrack 810 priced at Ł229.99. The shop
> also had the same model but in different colours for Ł249.99. I think it was
> just the wrong price tag.
Sure it wasn't an 820? Trek are good bikes - this is my favourite out of
the ones mentioned. The 810 isn't bad but the components suffer for the
cheap suspension forks (at least on the SHX model). Sync forks are a bit
of an unkown quantity to me and seemed no worse than other cheap and nasty
sus forks. Ditch the forks for some rigid forks and for the upgrade to the
820 and you get an Alivio groupset.
>
> The Claud Butler I like is the Miura priced at Ł299.99. Looking through
> their catalogue I also like the specs of the Virago & Kylami but have no
> idea of price.
>
Never liked CBs. The frames are usually cheap and nasty with odd bargain
bin components and usually the frame angles are completely wrong.
> I've just been looking at the Peugeot catalogue and like the spec of the
> Origin 50T priced at Ł299. The only bit it didn't say is whether it has
> quick release wheels. I need to find that out.
Looking at the spec it's well specced (Alivio) so I'd be very surprised if
the wheels aren't. The forks are so-so and the frame is going to be heavy.
Richard Brunton
Murray) wrote:
>Never liked CBs. The frames are usually cheap and nasty with odd bargain
>bin components and usually the frame angles are completely wrong.
I wouldn't say that about last years "Cape Wrath", but this years
models, definately. I got last year's Cape, and it's a fantastic bike.
Indy XC, STX RC, LX rear. The frame is sturdy as hell, and not that
heavy. The bike is superb for XC. Only thing is the saddle is a bit
uncomfortable and you get CB tattooed on your bum!!
This year's replacement is not so good. I think it has Sun Tour forks,
and yeh it's got disc brakes, but not great ones. The frame is a
heavier material, and not so strong, it's also weird shaped tubing
which I don't like. Basically they've dropped the spec to chuck on the
disc brakes and drop the price...
Richard...
Shaun C. Murray
ric...@richardb.demon.co.uk (Richard Brunton) wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Aug 1999 13:26:48 +0100, s...@enterprise.net (Shaun C.
> Murray) wrote:
>
>
> >Never liked CBs. The frames are usually cheap and nasty with odd bargain
> >bin components and usually the frame angles are completely wrong.
>
> I wouldn't say that about last years "Cape Wrath",
I would!
>
> This year's replacement is not so good. I think it has Sun Tour forks,
> and yeh it's got disc brakes, but not great ones. The frame is a
> heavier material, and not so strong, it's also weird shaped tubing
> which I don't like. Basically they've dropped the spec to chuck on the
> disc brakes and drop the price...
And created and even worse bike. Sorry, file under useless.
Richard Brunton
Murray) wrote:
>I would!
You got one? Ridden it in competition? Taken it out at Red Bull and
hammered it for 24 hours rotten and not had a single problem?
Richard...
Will Jenkins
components. Companies like CB, Peugeot and Raleigh tend to use very cheap
frames on their bikes, so they can afford to put a "better" transmission
onto it. You would be better off looking at some of the bigger names like
GT, Kona, Specialized, Trek, Marin, Diamond Back, Giant... They tend to use
better materials in their frames and the design and geometry will be far
better in terms of handling and ride. They will be lighter too. The way the
bike feels is the most important thing, not if you've got Alivio or Acera X
(or whatever). If you aren't comfortable with the bike you won't want to
ride it. If the bike rides well it will inspire your confidence, you will
want to ride it more and you will have more fun. Giant's bikes seem to
strike the best compromise between frame and components. They are very good
value. You shouldn't bother with any sort of suspension, at this price it's
a waste of money. Your handling skills will be better if you learn on a
rigid bike anyway.
Also, if you plan to do a lot of off-road riding on your prospective bike,
you should make £300 your minimum. Much below this and bikes tend to go
wrong very quickly. At about £350, bikes start to get good. If you just want
to ride in the street or on smooth paths you can spend a little less.
I hope these points are of help. I used to work in a bike shop and we used
to sell a lot of bikes around this price. Pesonally I'm not biased towards
any of the manufacurers as I have owned/ridden bikes from all of them and
more.
Ride Free,
Will.
Ian <i...@thumper88.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7okuih$rco$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...
> After cancelling my order from my LBS (see my other post) I've had another
> look at hardtail bikes under £300.
>
> I've narrowed it down to 4 choices. Firstly I can stick to my original
> choice of Raleigh Max Cromo EFs.
>
> The Trek model I like is the Singletrack 810 priced at £229.99. The shop
> also had the same model but in different colours for £249.99. I think it
was
> just the wrong price tag.
>
> The Claud Butler I like is the Miura priced at £299.99. Looking through
> their catalogue I also like the specs of the Virago & Kylami but have no
> idea of price.
>
> I've just been looking at the Peugeot catalogue and like the spec of the
> Origin 50T priced at £299. The only bit it didn't say is whether it has
> quick release wheels. I need to find that out.
>
Eamonn O'Neill
> > >Never liked CBs. The frames are usually cheap and nasty with odd bargain
> > >bin components and usually the frame angles are completely wrong.
> >
> > I wouldn't say that about last years "Cape Wrath",
>
> I would!
>
> >
> > This year's replacement is not so good. I think it has Sun Tour forks,
> > and yeh it's got disc brakes, but not great ones. The frame is a
> > heavier material, and not so strong, it's also weird shaped tubing
> > which I don't like. Basically they've dropped the spec to chuck on the
The Cape Wrath seems to have got 'tricker' and worse(!) each year. My
wife's got a 96 version which was a nice simple Tange steel frame and
rigid forks with a mixture of LX (very good) and ESP 5 (crap). It's
since been upgraded massively as things have worn out.
I've been trying to persuade her that she really needs a Marin full sus
rig for the past year, but she loves the Cape Wrath's feel, says the
geometry is really comfortable (sorry Shaun) and won't ride anything else.
It isn't the lightest frame in the world but it sounds like things have
got worse with the later models. I really don't understand this. I'd
expect a company which has been making bikes for as long as CB to
produce some seriously good designs. Surely it can't be any harder to
design high-end bikes rather than low-end bikes - and the margins must
be higher?
Cheers
Eamonn
Shaun C. Murray
ric...@richardb.demon.co.uk (Richard Brunton) wrote:
Nope. Sat on one, it felt horrible. First impressions usually last. It was
just wrong.
Shaun C. Murray
<eam...@SPAMBUSTER.dcs.qmw.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> I've been trying to persuade her that she really needs a Marin full sus
> rig for the past year, but she loves the Cape Wrath's feel, says the
> geometry is really comfortable (sorry Shaun) and won't ride anything else.
What's comfortable for one is not for me. Nothing wrong with that just
that the CB geometry is atypical.
>
> It isn't the lightest frame in the world but it sounds like things have
> got worse with the later models. I really don't understand this. I'd
> expect a company which has been making bikes for as long as CB to
> produce some seriously good designs.
I don't believe CB actually design anything. They are the bike equivalent
of PC box shifters. Lot's of stuff slammed together from as cheap a source
as they can find to make something that appears to be a mountain bike.
> Surely it can't be any harder to
> design high-end bikes rather than low-end bikes - and the margins must
> be higher?
Of course it is. At the high end you get advances in materials and design
to produce lighter and stronger bikes. This then filters down from low
volume, high end bikes to the high volume, low end bikes as they fine tune
the design and production techniques.
Of course not all companies can afford the high end design so they just
run off the back of the top companies. You may find that Claud Butler buy
their frames from the exact same factory as Giant use so that the CB
frames have all the benefits of Giants design. AFAIK CB do not make or
even design their own mountain bike frames.
Eamonn O'Neill
>
> In article <37B1556D...@SPAMBUSTER.dcs.qmw.ac.uk>, Eamonn O'Neill
> <eam...@SPAMBUSTER.dcs.qmw.ac.uk> wrote:
> > Surely it can't be any harder to
> > design high-end bikes rather than low-end bikes - and the margins must
> > be higher?
>
> Of course not all companies can afford the high end design so they just
> run off the back of the top companies. You may find that Claud Butler buy
> their frames from the exact same factory as Giant use so that the CB
> frames have all the benefits of Giants design. AFAIK CB do not make or
> even design their own mountain bike frames.
That's to the point of what I meant, though I phrased it badly. I maybe
should have said 'buy in and assemble' rather than 'design'.
If the likes of CB are doing as you suggest, why don't they just buy in
high-end rather than low-end stuff and then, presumably, flog it for
loads more money and get a good reputation into the bargain - all for no
more hassle than doing the same thing with crap?
Cheers
Eamonn
Richard Brunton
Murray) wrote:
>What's comfortable for one is not for me. Nothing wrong with that just
>that the CB geometry is atypical.
Well that's the truth for anything I guess. I did try out a full suss
Cannondale and a few other front sussied bikes, but I felt best on the
CB. One of my mates, who races on a Merlin, couldn't get used to the
position when he got on the CB...it's all about where and how you feel
comfortable and in control, if that's on a CB then you'll be as happy
as if it was on any other bike I reckon...Maybe not as fast, but most
of that comes with confidence.
Richard...
Ian
Shaun C. Murray <s...@enterprise.net> wrote in message
news:scm-090899...@max03-021.enterprise.net...
> > also had the same model but in different colours for £249.99. I think it
was
> > just the wrong price tag.
>
> the ones mentioned. The 810 isn't bad but the components suffer for the
> cheap suspension forks (at least on the SHX model). Sync forks are a bit
> of an unkown quantity to me and seemed no worse than other cheap and nasty
> sus forks. Ditch the forks for some rigid forks and for the upgrade to the
> 820 and you get an Alivio groupset.
Both bikes I saw had Singletrack 810 printed on the crossbar, both had front
sus forks. The £229.99 model was blue/white, the £249.99 one was
orange/black.
>
> Never liked CBs. The frames are usually cheap and nasty with odd bargain
> bin components and usually the frame angles are completely wrong.
I finally found a shop with a Miura in stock, so I got to try it. It didn't
feel quite right, felt like I was leaning too far forward. Probably because
of the oversise aheadset which all their bikes have, or could it be the
frame angles? Anyway I've ruled them out.
>
> > I've just been looking at the Peugeot catalogue and like the spec of the
> > Origin 50T priced at £299. The only bit it didn't say is whether it has
> > quick release wheels. I need to find that out.
>
> Looking at the spec it's well specced (Alivio) so I'd be very surprised if
> the wheels aren't. The forks are so-so and the frame is going to be heavy.
They are quick release after checking. The frame is aluminium so it should
be comparitively light. My main problem with this bike is actually finding a
Peugeot stockist that has one to try. Plenty of shops say I can order one,
but I want to try it out first.
Ian
Shaun C. Murray
<eam...@SPAMBUSTER.dcs.qmw.ac.uk> wrote:
I'd suspect that CB aren't really in the high end and that if they did try
and sell high end bikes they wouldn't. There would be a stockpile of
unsold high end bikes.
Shaun C. Murray
<i...@thumper88.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Both bikes I saw had Singletrack 810 printed on the crossbar, both had front
> sus forks. The £229.99 model was blue/white, the £249.99 one was
> orange/black.
Must have been some difference other than colour.
> >
> > Never liked CBs. The frames are usually cheap and nasty with odd bargain
> > bin components and usually the frame angles are completely wrong.
>
> I finally found a shop with a Miura in stock, so I got to try it. It didn't
> feel quite right, felt like I was leaning too far forward. Probably because
> of the oversise aheadset which all their bikes have, or could it be the
> frame angles? Anyway I've ruled them out.
They are usually too short in top tube length for me so perhaps that's why
you felt like you were too far forward.
> >
> > > I've just been looking at the Peugeot catalogue and like the spec of the
> > > Origin 50T priced at £299. The only bit it didn't say is whether it has
> > > quick release wheels. I need to find that out.
> >
> > Looking at the spec it's well specced (Alivio) so I'd be very surprised if
> > the wheels aren't. The forks are so-so and the frame is going to be heavy.
>
> They are quick release after checking. The frame is aluminium so it should
> be comparitively light.
That doesn't follow at all. Especially at the cheap end of the market. The
frame is quite likely to be heavier than a steel frame as it's much easier
and cheaper to make light strong frames out of steel than aluminium.
> My main problem with this bike is actually finding a
> Peugeot stockist that has one to try. Plenty of shops say I can order one,
> but I want to try it out first.
>
Stick with the Trek is what I'd suggest.
Stumphunter
> > be comparitively light.
>
> That doesn't follow at all. Especially at the cheap end of the market. The
> frame is quite likely to be heavier than a steel frame as it's much easier
I just thought that I would back you up on this one, aluminum is as much a fashion
item as anything, it is easy to build a light steel frame at any level as steel
needs less wall strength in order to provide the same amount of strength, I've
seen cheap alloy frames that way a ton
Chris .. the stumphunter
==========================================================================
"Their minds are filled with big idea's .... images of the smallest facts"
Stumphunters Bike Page ... Land of the Norfolk Mountain Biker
http://www.geocities.com/Pipeline/Ramp/5486
Ian
Richard Brunton <ric...@richardb.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:37b1cc3c...@news.demon.co.uk...
>
One of my mates, who races on a Merlin, couldn't get used to the
> position when he got on the CB...it's all about where and how you feel
> comfortable and in control, if that's on a CB then you'll be as happy
> as if it was on any other bike I reckon...Maybe not as fast, but most
> of that comes with confidence.
>
There is no way I would see a good specced bike in a brochure and just order
it.
This brings me on nicely to what happened earlier this week at Halfords.
Looking through the Raleigh brochure I like the look of the Sport 300. It
has front sus & sus seat post, just what I want. It's £350, but as the sub
300 quid bikes would all need the seatpost & decent saddle added, it's
within budget. Anyway, I phoned a Halfords superstore and the guy said he'd
call back. Phoned me back in 10 minutes and said "yes, we have some here". I
goes down there and there's no sign of a Raleigh Sport 300 or any other bike
I'd asked about. I find the guy who was on the phone earlier and ask him
why he had said they had a bike when they didn't. He said they were at the
warehouse and if we ordered one we could have it in a few days. I said that
I'd want to try it first before ordering it. He then came out with the
biggest load of bull I'd heard for a long time. "All bikes under about £700
are almost identical. Most people choose their bike from the catalogue and
order it without the need to try it. If they need bits added or changed they
do it after buying the bike. "
Ian
Ian
>
> > > I've just been looking at the Peugeot catalogue and like the spec of
the
> > > Origin 50T priced at £299. The only bit it didn't say is whether it
has
> > > quick release wheels. I need to find that out.
> >
at that price. It's basically the same bike as the 50T except for a
different model sus fork.
I'd mistakenly looked up the prices for the rigid frames instead of the
hardtails :-(
Ian
Ian
Like I said in another post, it's got both front suspension and suspension
seatpost which is what I want. It is within budget too at £350. Comparable
Trek or Giant bikes were around £600.
I was out today looking at Ridgebacks and was on my way to another shop when
I passed Bigfoot Bikes in Hayes and noticed their large selection. They had
most of the range of Giant and Raleigh bikes. I tried the Raleigh Sport 300
and it felt ok. So I ordered one. It definitely shows the advantage of a
bike shop having bikes in stock for customers to try. Some of the other
places I've called could learn from that. Because the bike was there I've
bought it. If he hadn't had the Sport 300 there I would have probably gone
for the Giant Boulder Alu-shock, really good value at £250.
Ian
Ian
should
> > be comparitively light.
>
> That doesn't follow at all. Especially at the cheap end of the market. The
> frame is quite likely to be heavier than a steel frame as it's much easier
> and cheaper to make light strong frames out of steel than aluminium.
If manufacturers can make light strong steel frames at a reasonable cost,
why are they even bothering with aluminium? The Raleigh Sport 300 is
aluminium and it is definitely lighter than any steel framed bike I've
lifted.
The fact is the difference in weight between an alloy frame and a steel one
can be negated by the addition of a water bottle.
Ian
news.cwcom.net
> The fact is the difference in weight between an alloy frame and a steel
one
> can be negated by the addition of a water bottle.
>
and the big dinner you've just had - seriously what does a few pounds matter
taking into consideratiion the whole package weight - bike and person and
any luggage - the percentage gain must be small, and for non competition
uses not worth the bother
Nick Maclaren
Yes. For a typical rider, each extra pound slows him down by about
1 minute in a day's riding in hilly country - perhaps twice that in
extreme cases. In flat country, the delay is more like 15 seconds
for a slow rider - and 5 seconds for a fast one.
You get more benefit from stapling your ears to your head.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren,
University of Cambridge Computing Service,
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG, England.
Email: nm...@cam.ac.uk
Tel.: +44 1223 334761 Fax: +44 1223 334679
Tim Hall
>>
>Yes. For a typical rider, each extra pound slows him down by about
>1 minute in a day's riding in hilly country - perhaps twice that in
>extreme cases. In flat country, the delay is more like 15 seconds
>for a slow rider - and 5 seconds for a fast one.
>
>You get more benefit from stapling your ears to your head.
More if you use titanium staples of course. ;-)
Tim
Richard Brunton
>You get more benefit from stapling your ears to your head.
Okay Nick, done that...what next?
BTW...how do I stop this annoying red stuff from leaking out? Why am I
feeling faint?
Richard...
Paul Smee
Richard Brunton <ric...@richardb.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On 17 Aug 1999 17:32:17 GMT, nm...@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) wrote:
>
>>You get more benefit from stapling your ears to your head.
>
>Okay Nick, done that...what next?
>
>BTW...how do I stop this annoying red stuff from leaking out?
Why on earth would you want to do that? The more leaks out, the lighter
you are. Suspect Nick took that into account when designing the idea.
Ian
> I've ordered my new bike. I've gone for the Raleigh Sport 300.
>
a bit too much riding on Friday.
As I named and shamed the shop that kept me waiting and done nothing for 2
months, it's only fair I name the shop that gave me good service. That is
Bigfoot Bikes of Hayes, Kent.
Saw the bike on Saturday but I needed the next size down. The guy was honest
and said he would order it from Raleigh on Monday and it would be in by
Wednesday. I phoned the shop at 10 Monday morning to add a few bits to my
order, guy on the phone confirmed he had already contacted Raleigh.
Wednesday afternoon I get a call to say my bike is in and will be ready for
collection Thursday.
Now that's what I call good service. Certainly better than Sidcup Cycle
Centre who tried to tell me there was a minimum 4 week wait for any Raleigh
bike.
Ian