Another killer let loose.

[Doug]

"Fatal crash cyclist is identified

A cyclist who died in a collision in Essex has been identified as a 43-
year-old man from Southend.

Nigel Garrett, of Newington Avenue, Southend, was cycling in Lifstan
Way, Southend, early on Saturday morning when he was in collision with
a car.

A teenager was arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous
driving.

The 19-year-old man from Southend was later released on police bail
until 18 October. Any witnesses to the crash are asked to call Essex
Police."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/essex/8135863.stm

--
UK Radical Campaigns
www.zing.icom43.net
A driving licence is a licence to kill.

[Bod]

Innocent untill proved guilty....remember?

Bod

[Brimstone]

Not on DougWorld(tm).

[Tony Dragon]

So due process of law was followed, the innocent (so far) driver was
released on bail.

What do you suggest that should have been done?

--

Tony Dragon

[JNugent]

Innocent *unless* proven guilty.

[Simon Brooke]

What are the risks of his offending again while on bail? I'm not in
favour of holding people on remand unnecessarily, but a bail condition
preventing him from driving would not hurt.

[JNugent]

You'd potentially prevent him from supporting himself and any family he has
even though he's not guilty?

We don't even do that to those on bail accused of murder.

[Doug]

On 6 July, 18:21, Tony Dragon <tony.dra...@btinternet.com> wrote:

> Doug wrote:
> > "Fatal crash cyclist is identified
>
> > A cyclist who died in a collision in Essex has been identified as a 43-
> > year-old man from Southend.
>
> > Nigel Garrett, of Newington Avenue, Southend, was cycling in Lifstan
> > Way, Southend, early on Saturday morning when he was in collision with
> > a car.
>
> > A teenager was arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous
> > driving.
>
> > The 19-year-old man from Southend was later released on police bail
> > until 18 October. Any witnesses to the crash are asked to call Essex
> > Police."
>
> >http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/essex/8135863.stm
>
>

> So due process of law was followed, the innocent (so far) driver was
> released on bail.
>
> What do you suggest that should have been done?
>

Keep him inside in case he kills again. If an unbiased court decides
he is innocent then fair enough, though how it could possibly ever
arrive at such a conclusion is beyond me. In any other context than on
a road a killing would be treated much more seriously.

[Doug]

What about the gyrocopter pilot who is still awaiting trial? Oh I
nearly forgot he is a hunt sab and therefore deserving of special
police attention, not like your run-of-the mill motorist, and cops,
judges and juries drive cars too don't they.

[Brimstone]

Wrong again Doug. Even people charged with murder are allowed bail.

[Bod]

Generally, yes, but not always.

Bod

[JNugent]

Doug wrote:
> On 6 July, 18:21, Tony Dragon <tony.dra...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> Doug wrote:
>>> "Fatal crash cyclist is identified
>>> A cyclist who died in a collision in Essex has been identified as a 43-
>>> year-old man from Southend.
>>> Nigel Garrett, of Newington Avenue, Southend, was cycling in Lifstan
>>> Way, Southend, early on Saturday morning when he was in collision with
>>> a car.
>>> A teenager was arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous
>>> driving.
>>> The 19-year-old man from Southend was later released on police bail
>>> until 18 October. Any witnesses to the crash are asked to call Essex
>>> Police."
>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/essex/8135863.stm
>>
>> So due process of law was followed, the innocent (so far) driver was
>> released on bail.
>>
>> What do you suggest that should have been done?
>>
> Keep him inside in case he kills again.

Eh?

The legal system doesn't even do that for people remanded on a murder charge.

Remember Winston Silcott?

[Brimstone]

You obviously don't understand the difference between "allowed" and
"granted".

[Bod]

You said Are allowed bail"....they aren't if they are denied bail.

The judge decides whether to 'grant' or 'refuse' bail,they are not
automatically "allowed".

Bod

[Simon Brooke]

On 6 July, 21:58, JNugent <J...@noparticularplacetogo.com> wrote:

Very few alleged murderers are given bail. We certainly don't give
them the weapon back and say 'there you go sonny, you might need to
use this'. If you are an alleged murderer and are remanded, you are
extremely unlikely to keep your job (if employed) or your business (if
self employed) - even if all charges are later dropped. I was going to
say 'this is no different' - but it /is/ different, seeing I'm not
proposing that motorists who kill be detained.

If the motorist who has already killed kills again while awaiting
trial, are you volunteering to go and explain to the family of his
second victim exactly why you felt it was important to give the killer
the wherewithal to kill again?

[Brimstone]

Thanks for the confirmation.

[Bod]

So now you're agreeing that bail is 'not' automatically "allowed"?
make your mind up.

Bod

[JNugent]

Some are, as evidenced by certain well-known cases. Compare and contrast with
what is being demanded by the extremists here.

> We certainly don't give
> them the weapon back and say 'there you go sonny, you might need to
> use this'.

I certainly would not be in favour of handing back a confiscated weapon. Has
anyone suggested such a thing?

> If you are an alleged murderer and are remanded, you are
> extremely unlikely to keep your job (if employed) or your business (if
> self employed) - even if all charges are later dropped.

Is there any basis for that remarkable claim? Even if it were true, would it
be just? Why should an innocent and wrongly-accused person have their life,
and the lives of their family, wrecked?

> I was going to
> say 'this is no different' - but it /is/ different, seeing I'm not
> proposing that motorists who kill be detained.

Are you really Doug, albeit with a cleaned-up posting style and slightly
better grasp of English?

> If the motorist who has already killed kills again while awaiting
> trial, are you volunteering to go and explain to the family of his
> second victim exactly why you felt it was important to give the killer
> the wherewithal to kill again?

Do you really not understand the difference between a deliberate act and an
accidental one?

By the way, have you thought better of your "investigate-prosecute-convict"
model yet? You know, the one where there is no possibility of acquittal?

[Brimstone]

I have, and it's not beneficial to you.

[Bod]

Bail is 'not' allowed per se,it is at the discretion of the judge.
A defendant can apply for bail though, but is not always 'allowed'.

Bod

[Dave Larrington]

In news:boadnQ9Uc_rx-M_X...@pipex.net,
JNugent <J...@noparticularplacetogo.com> tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell
us:

If Jack Straw has his way, murder suspects won't be eligible for bail except
in very unusual circumstances. This as a result of a copper who, while on
bail for the murder of his wife, murdered his mother-in-law before fatally
shooting himself.

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
Emperor of ice-cream.

[Brimstone]

Bail is allowed wherfe the law says that it is allowed. The judge has
discretion as to whether or not he grants it.

Do you now see the difference?

> A defendant can apply for bail though, but is not always 'allowed'.
>

Quite.

[Bod]

So why did you disagree when I said "not always allowed"?

Bod

[Brimstone]

I didn't.

[Bod]

You just said "quite" to "but not always allowed"..

Bod

[Brimstone]

As I said, you're confusing what is allowed in law, the common usage of
allowed and what the judge can grant.

[Bod]

> I never argued about the law side of it,I only said bail is not allowed in all cases ;ie:given
the right to freedom automatically.Which is obviously what I mean't.

Definition of "Allowed":give consent to,give permission.

You're just being pedantic.

Bod

[Brimstone]

My original response was to Doug. You poked your nose in wittering on about
what is allowed. It's not me that has been caught out trying to be
pedantic - and failing miserably.

[Bod]

Ok,but as I know it,bail has to be requested.
You feel it is allowed automatically.
We'll have to agree to disagree.

Bod

[Brimstone]

No, we'll have to agree to you being dumb, except that you won't.

[Bod]

So,bail doesn't have to be reqested,o wise one?

Bod

[Brimstone]

As I said, you won't.

[aard...@the.zoo]

FFS, snip already!

[Bod]

Bail may not be offered by some courts under some circumstances; for
instance, if the accused is considered likely not to appear for trial
regardless of bail.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bail

Bod

[Brimstone]

aard...@the.zoo wrote:

> FFS, snip already!

Why didn't you? ;-)

[Pip Ryder]

Dave Larrington wrote:

> murdered his mother-in-law

I don't see any problem here. Did he jump a red light before commiting
the act or something? :)

[Bod]

Is it now an offence to murder mother in laws? :-)

Bod

[francis]

I believe that the latest European legislation allows you to murder
your own mother-in-law, but only if you can prove provocation.
You are not allowed to murder mothers-in-law who are not your own.
With deference to DougLaw(tm) you must not use a motor vehicle to
commit this act.

[francis]

On 7 July, 08:32, Doug <jag...@riseup.net> wrote:
> On 6 July, 18:21, Tony Dragon <tony.dra...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Doug wrote:
> > > "Fatal crash cyclist is identified
>
> > > A cyclist who died in a collision in Essex has been identified as a 43-
> > > year-old man from Southend.
>
> > > Nigel Garrett, of Newington Avenue, Southend, was cycling in Lifstan
> > > Way, Southend, early on Saturday morning when he was in collision with
> > > a car.
>
> > > A teenager was arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous
> > > driving.
>
> > > The 19-year-old man from Southend was later released on police bail
> > > until 18 October. Any witnesses to the crash are asked to call Essex
> > > Police."
>
> > >http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/essex/8135863.stm
>
> > So due process of law was followed, the innocent (so far) driver was
> > released on bail.
>
> > What do you suggest that should have been done?
>
> Keep him inside in case he kills again. If an unbiased court decides
> he is innocent then fair enough, though how it could possibly ever
> arrive at such a conclusion is beyond me. In any other context than on
> a road a killing would be treated much more seriously.
>

> --
> UK Radical Campaignswww.zing.icom43.net
> A driving licence is a licence to kill.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

How many people convicted of 'causing death by dangerous driving'
commit the offense a second time?

Francis

[Bod]

Right, thanks, would "she looked at me in a funny way" count as
provocation? :-)

Bod

[francis]

> Bod- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Only if you can prove the she was the only onr who did that.

Francis