Councillor admits "large wagons" damaged cycle lane wands... but claims painted segregation works "extremely well"

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swldx...@gmail.com

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Sep 29, 2022, 10:10:42 AMSep 29
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Here's a brainteaser for your Thursday afternoon: if drivers of "large wagons" keep getting so close to a cycle lane that they knock down the wands segregating riders from other road users, how would a return to an unsegregated painted bike lane work "extremely well" and keep cyclists safe?

That's the puzzle we're trying, and failing, to find the answer to after a councillor's response to a local rider suggested exactly this.

First, some context...

This is Vauxhall Road in Liverpool where the cycle lane wands are sparse and the parked vehicles are plentiful...

Concerned about the situation, Mersey Road Watch got in touch with Liverpool councillor Joe Hanson whose interesting response has since emerged on social media...

"I agree with you the cycle lanes are in poor condition and part of the problem is large wagons hit the bollards, knocking them off the ground," he said, presumably meaning the drivers of large wagons.

'How about proper segregation then?' I hear you ask... nope, there's only one thing to blame here... yep, it's those bloomin' cycle lane wands getting themselves hit...

"I have questioned the wisdom of placing them on Vauxhall Road when the painted cycle lanes that existed before seemed to work extremely well," the councillor concluded.

We got in touch with Mersey Road Watch who called the response "disappointing".

"I reported to the council that the Vauxhall Road cycle lane, every day, has vehicles parked, driving in it, and all the wands are smashed and broken," they told us.

"The councillor did not care and seems like he is actually happy with how the infrastructure is being used. Disappointing."

We've approached the councillor for a comment on the situation...in the meantime here's how the debacle has gone down on the blue bird app.

https://road.cc/content/news/cycling-live-blog-29-september-2022-296257#live-blog-item-37971

Spike

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Sep 29, 2022, 11:01:22 AMSep 29
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swldx...@gmail.com <swldx...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Here's a brainteaser for your Thursday afternoon: if drivers of "large
> wagons" keep getting so close to a cycle lane that they knock down the
> wands segregating riders from other road users, how would a return to an
> unsegregated painted bike lane work "extremely well" and keep cyclists safe?

By making cyclists aware of their surroundings instead of staring at their
front axles?

🙄

> https://road.cc/content/news/cycling-live-blog-29-september-2022-296257#live-blog-item-37971
>



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Spike

swldx...@gmail.com

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Sep 29, 2022, 11:57:31 AMSep 29
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QUOTE:If wagons keep hitting the bollards, it suggests that the bollards are very much needed to stop cyclists being hit.ENDS

OBVIOUSLY.

Spike

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Sep 29, 2022, 1:06:26 PMSep 29
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Spike

swldx...@gmail.com

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Sep 29, 2022, 1:31:57 PMSep 29
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More roadside eye tests required it seems.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FdxBqCLXwAguWn_?format=jpg&name=small

Spike

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Sep 30, 2022, 4:33:55 AMSep 30
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What a good idea - testing cyclists to determine if they can see red will
help bring down road casualties.

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Spike

swldx...@gmail.com

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Sep 30, 2022, 6:20:56 AMSep 30
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On Thursday, September 29, 2022 at 6:31:57 PM UTC+1, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> More roadside eye tests required it seems.
>
> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FdxBqCLXwAguWn_?format=jpg&name=small

Obviously hit as it isn't painted yellow.

Spike

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Sep 30, 2022, 6:34:10 AMSep 30
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Whatever else, don’t paint them red - cyclists just won’t see
them…🚦🚶‍♂️💥🚴🚑🪦

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Spike

swldx...@gmail.com

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Sep 30, 2022, 8:38:11 AMSep 30
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Bungle_52 | 545 posts | 5 hours ago
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Re removing the wands being safer. The councillor may be correct. Removing the wands means that cyclists will be able to follow Mark Hodson's advice (on his twitter feed) and ride just outside the lane (murder strip) which will improve the safety of those brave enough to do it.

Spike

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Sep 30, 2022, 8:43:33 AMSep 30
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Think this through…

…If it’s safer to do that, why do they need to be braver?

🙄

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Spike

swldx...@gmail.com

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Sep 30, 2022, 11:37:20 AMSep 30
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Advice for drivers... Whenever you encounter a Cyclist in what ever situation just give at least 1.5mtrs of room, further if you are travelling at over 30mph & show consideration 👍 it's not hard, no need for whataboutery at all, as you will find it won't help you in a court of law 👍 So there we are, time to abolish #Murderstrips, it will help keep cyclists safer by changing behaviours and save some drivers points on their licence as well, as they start thinking about their driving rather than relying on paint.

Spike

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Sep 30, 2022, 1:19:19 PMSep 30
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The best thing that could make cyclists safer, is to take responsibility
for their cycles and the manner in which they cycle. A training programme
and compulsory eye tests would help - many cyclists seem to have difficulty
seeing the colour red, for example.

🚦🚶‍♂️💥🚑🚓🪦

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Spike

swldx...@gmail.com

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Sep 30, 2022, 1:43:11 PMSep 30
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The blame for hitting road furniture lies with the drivers - see HoL verdict in 2004.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVtYHDiWUAErNfK?format=jpg&name=large

QED.

Spike

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Sep 30, 2022, 5:12:57 PMSep 30
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And for cyclists hitting large stationary things?

<https://road.cc/content/news/227661-video-ouch-newcastle-cyclist-crashes-back-van-face-first>

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Spike

swldx...@gmail.com

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Sep 30, 2022, 5:15:28 PMSep 30
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popularly known are available almost everywhere in the UK for the driver who wants an excuse for endangering a #Vulnerableroaduser , all be it not a legimate one given the HC (& before updates also), but can be used to muddy the waters of any potential prosecution for #S3RTA1988

Spike

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Sep 30, 2022, 5:22:38 PMSep 30
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Google Translate couldn’t parse that into English.

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Spike

swldx...@gmail.com

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Oct 1, 2022, 5:30:53 AMOct 1
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QUOTE: The driver has a responsibility for looking out for obstructions" ENDS

Spike

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Oct 1, 2022, 7:12:50 AMOct 1
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Drivers are not unique in this.

So do cyclists have a responsibility for looking out for obstructions, such
as vans, pedestrians…

🚦🚶‍♂️💥🚴🚑🚓🪦

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Spike

swldx...@gmail.com

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Oct 1, 2022, 9:41:55 AMOct 1
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On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 10:30:53 AM UTC+1, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, September 30, 2022 at 6:43:11 PM UTC+1, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> > The blame for hitting road furniture lies with the drivers - see HoL verdict in 2004.

"Government accepts feedback, pledges to refer to collisions rather than accidents in statistics and data tables in line with road collision reporting guidelines"

Brilliant news. A small but signifcant step moving away from the notion that collisions are "accidents" and therefore unavoidable. Just need to wait a few decades now while this controversial idea becomes accepted in the courts and drivers are held reposible for their actions. A step in the right direction for a change.

Spike

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Oct 1, 2022, 9:49:03 AMOct 1
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swldx...@gmail.com <swldx...@gmail.com> wrote:

> "Government accepts feedback, pledges to refer to collisions rather than
> accidents in statistics and data tables in line with road collision reporting guidelines"

> Brilliant news. A small but signifcant step moving away from the notion
> that collisions are "accidents" and therefore unavoidable. Just need to
> wait a few decades now while this controversial idea becomes accepted in
> the courts and drivers are held reposible for their actions. A step in
> the right direction for a change.

The change won’t make cycling look any safer.

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Spike

swldx...@gmail.com

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Oct 1, 2022, 11:55:40 AMOct 1
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Constantly damaged wands snapped in half, cycle lane Vauxhall Road. Don’t forget the uprooted ones lying across the lane. I have seen kids ripping the wands on this cycle lane out of the ground. - LIVERPOOL, EH?

Spike

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Oct 1, 2022, 2:02:33 PMOct 1
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Blimey! Even kids don’t like cyclists!

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Spike

swldx...@gmail.com

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Oct 1, 2022, 2:46:04 PMOct 1
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In the footage, a driver is shown parking inside a cycle lane with recently installed 'wands' on Carver Street in Birmingham. At least five cars are parked inside the cycle lane - rendering it useless - and after attempting to bend a wand and pull it out of the ground, two people are then shown unscrewing and removing it entirely.

Sophie Watson, who uploaded the footage to Twitter, said: "Cones have been here for 3 weeks now and I'm pretty sure all cars here belong to staff at the branch. Plenty of room left in front and behind to get out. I just wish I could say I was shocked watching this."

Should not be parking there in the first bleeding place!!! Absolutely stupid!

— ARK (@KindRandomAct) September 16, 2020 (link is external)

Today the missing wand appears to have returned, but the cycle lane still cannot be used because of cars parked within it. The policing unit for the Jewellery Quarter area of Birmingham have now said they will "try and get someone down to speak to the owners of the vehicles". The people in the footage allegedly work for property management company Martin & Co.

Peter Keller

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Oct 2, 2022, 5:37:20 AMOct 2
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I could not give a stuff!

Spike

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Oct 2, 2022, 5:38:49 AMOct 2
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😉

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Spike

swldx...@gmail.com

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Oct 2, 2022, 6:08:33 AMOct 2
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Bloody hell - even when they're designed to look like bollards drivers still can't see them.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FeDnB-MXoAEcvjP?format=jpg&name=medium

Spike

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Oct 2, 2022, 6:35:43 AMOct 2
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swldx...@gmail.com

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Oct 2, 2022, 8:55:24 AMOct 2
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‘Light segregation’

For urban 30 mph streets, ‘light segregation’ - e.g. a line of ‘traffic wands’ - is often entirely adequate (see main photo). This provides much of the feeling of protection that enables less confident people to cycle, while occupying less space and costing a fraction of what is required for full kerb segregation (largely because there’s no need to realign drainage).

There are, however, pros and cons to different types of ‘light segregation’. Low-height solutions, such as ‘armadillos’ and ‘orcas’, have proved unpopular with both cyclists and other road users.

This is because they provide only a limited sense of protection, while presenting trip hazards to pedestrians and putting motor-cyclists at risk of slipping.

Where light segregation is appropriate, therefore, Cycling UK is inclined to favour traffic wands. We hope that engineering firms come up with more visually acceptable designs as this solution become more widely adopted
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