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Driver "used bus as a weapon" against cyclist, loses appeal over sacking
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swldx...@gmail.com
Oct 3, 2022, 2:19:31 PM10/3/22
to
EXCELLENT RESULT
====================
A former London bus driver's appeal has been thrown out at an employment tribunal after it was deemed he "used his bus as a weapon" against a cyclist who rode in primary position.
MyLondon (link is external) reports the driver, named Mr S William in court documents, had been a Go-Ahead London employee when he was involved in an incident described as "atrocious" by a witness who saw him stop his bus to deliberately block a cyclist who was forced to bunnyhop onto a kerb to avoid a collision.
Written notes from the London South Employment Tribunal show the "dreadful" incident happened on 23 June 2021 as the professional driver was returning to a bus depot in Putney when the cyclist took primary position, in the centre of the lane, upon exiting a cycle lane.
The perfectly legal and safe cycling practice, recommended in some situations by the Highway Code, was rewarded by Mr William overtaking before he "deliberately stopped the bus at the kerb blocking the cyclist, who was forced to jump onto the kerb to avoid it".
Angered by the attack the cyclist kicked the bus at the next junction and had a verbal altercation with the driver. A member of the public who saw the incident reported it to Transport for London, describing the driving as "atrocious" and "dreadful".
Go-Ahead London subsequently investigated the vehicle's internal and external CCTV images, as well as the speed-recording equipment, which confirmed the dangerous driving.
It also showed Mr William speeding at 28mph in a 20mph zone, and earlier ignoring a ban on reversing at Mortlake Bus Station without an assistant, a rule implemented when a member of the public was hit and killed.
"Used his bus as a weapon"
Court documents revealed the bus company's management team came to the conclusion their employee's driving was "reckless" and that he "used his bus as a weapon to retaliate".
Mr William took his former employer to tribunal after an appeal upheld Go-Ahead's decision to dismiss him in July 2021. However, the judge threw out the claim of wrongful dismissal, saying Mr William had been "aggressive" and tried to "pincer the cyclist".
The driver had claimed race and disability discrimination motivated his dismissal, although court documents suggest this was either withdrawn or thrown out prior to the final hearing. The tribunal judge had labelled attempts to justify the driving as "outlandish".
Primary position
road positioning - primary position approaching junction.jpg
The Highway Code is clear on the safety benefits of riding in primary position, in the centre of your lane, and recommends cyclists travel in such a way when:
On quiet roads or streets – if a faster vehicle comes up behind you, move to the left to enable them to overtake, if you can do so safely.
In slower-moving traffic – when the traffic around you starts to flow more freely, move over to the left if you can do so safely so that faster vehicles behind you can overtake.
At the approach to junctions or road narrowings where it would be unsafe for drivers to overtake you.
https://road.cc/content/news/bus-driver-loses-appeal-over-atrocious-driving-296359
====================
A former London bus driver's appeal has been thrown out at an employment tribunal after it was deemed he "used his bus as a weapon" against a cyclist who rode in primary position.
MyLondon (link is external) reports the driver, named Mr S William in court documents, had been a Go-Ahead London employee when he was involved in an incident described as "atrocious" by a witness who saw him stop his bus to deliberately block a cyclist who was forced to bunnyhop onto a kerb to avoid a collision.
Written notes from the London South Employment Tribunal show the "dreadful" incident happened on 23 June 2021 as the professional driver was returning to a bus depot in Putney when the cyclist took primary position, in the centre of the lane, upon exiting a cycle lane.
The perfectly legal and safe cycling practice, recommended in some situations by the Highway Code, was rewarded by Mr William overtaking before he "deliberately stopped the bus at the kerb blocking the cyclist, who was forced to jump onto the kerb to avoid it".
Angered by the attack the cyclist kicked the bus at the next junction and had a verbal altercation with the driver. A member of the public who saw the incident reported it to Transport for London, describing the driving as "atrocious" and "dreadful".
Go-Ahead London subsequently investigated the vehicle's internal and external CCTV images, as well as the speed-recording equipment, which confirmed the dangerous driving.
It also showed Mr William speeding at 28mph in a 20mph zone, and earlier ignoring a ban on reversing at Mortlake Bus Station without an assistant, a rule implemented when a member of the public was hit and killed.
"Used his bus as a weapon"
Court documents revealed the bus company's management team came to the conclusion their employee's driving was "reckless" and that he "used his bus as a weapon to retaliate".
Mr William took his former employer to tribunal after an appeal upheld Go-Ahead's decision to dismiss him in July 2021. However, the judge threw out the claim of wrongful dismissal, saying Mr William had been "aggressive" and tried to "pincer the cyclist".
The driver had claimed race and disability discrimination motivated his dismissal, although court documents suggest this was either withdrawn or thrown out prior to the final hearing. The tribunal judge had labelled attempts to justify the driving as "outlandish".
Primary position
road positioning - primary position approaching junction.jpg
The Highway Code is clear on the safety benefits of riding in primary position, in the centre of your lane, and recommends cyclists travel in such a way when:
On quiet roads or streets – if a faster vehicle comes up behind you, move to the left to enable them to overtake, if you can do so safely.
In slower-moving traffic – when the traffic around you starts to flow more freely, move over to the left if you can do so safely so that faster vehicles behind you can overtake.
At the approach to junctions or road narrowings where it would be unsafe for drivers to overtake you.
https://road.cc/content/news/bus-driver-loses-appeal-over-atrocious-driving-296359
Spike
Oct 3, 2022, 4:33:12 PM10/3/22
to
swldx...@gmail.com <swldx...@gmail.com> wrote:
> EXCELLENT RESULT
> ===================A former London bus driver's appeal has been thrown
> SITUATION] recommended in some situations by the Highway Code [BUT NOT
> NECESSARILY THIS ONE - NOTE THE WEASEL-WORDING HERE] [CLARIFICATION
> BELOW] was rewarded by Mr William overtaking before he "deliberately
> AGAINST THE LAW] [ANGER MANAGEMENT COURSE IN PROSPECT?]. A member of the
> It also showed Mr William speeding at 28mph in a 20mph zone [ALMOST AS
> FAST AS SOME CYCLISTS] and earlier ignoring a ban on reversing at
> behind you, move to the left to enable them to overtake [NOTE] if you can do so safely.
> https://road.cc/content/news/bus-driver-loses-appeal-over-atrocious-driving-296359
--
Spike
> EXCELLENT RESULT
> ===================A former London bus driver's appeal has been thrown
> out at an employment tribunal after it was deemed he "used his bus as a
> weapon" against a cyclist who rode in primary position.
>
> MyLondon (link is external) reports the driver, named Mr S William in
> court documents, had been a Go-Ahead London employee when he was involved
> in an incident described as "atrocious" by a witness who saw him stop his
> bus to deliberately block a cyclist who was forced to bunnyhop onto a
> kerb to avoid a collision.
>
> Written notes from the London South Employment Tribunal show the
> "dreadful" incident happened on 23 June 2021 as the professional driver
> was returning to a bus depot in Putney when the cyclist took primary
> position, in the centre of the lane, upon exiting a cycle lane.
> The perfectly legal and safe cycling practice [NOT NECESSARILY IN THIS
> weapon" against a cyclist who rode in primary position.
>
> MyLondon (link is external) reports the driver, named Mr S William in
> court documents, had been a Go-Ahead London employee when he was involved
> in an incident described as "atrocious" by a witness who saw him stop his
> bus to deliberately block a cyclist who was forced to bunnyhop onto a
> kerb to avoid a collision.
>
> Written notes from the London South Employment Tribunal show the
> "dreadful" incident happened on 23 June 2021 as the professional driver
> was returning to a bus depot in Putney when the cyclist took primary
> position, in the centre of the lane, upon exiting a cycle lane.
> SITUATION] recommended in some situations by the Highway Code [BUT NOT
> NECESSARILY THIS ONE - NOTE THE WEASEL-WORDING HERE] [CLARIFICATION
> BELOW] was rewarded by Mr William overtaking before he "deliberately
> stopped the bus at the kerb blocking the cyclist, who was forced to jump
> onto the kerb to avoid it".
> Angered by the attack the cyclist kicked the bus at the next junction and
> had a verbal altercation with the driver [SURELY THOSE ACTIONS WERE
> onto the kerb to avoid it".
> Angered by the attack the cyclist kicked the bus at the next junction and
> AGAINST THE LAW] [ANGER MANAGEMENT COURSE IN PROSPECT?]. A member of the
> public who saw the incident reported it to Transport for London,
> describing the driving as "atrocious" and "dreadful".
>
> Go-Ahead London subsequently investigated the vehicle's internal and
> external CCTV images, as well as the speed-recording equipment, which
> confirmed the dangerous driving [WHO WAS CHARGED WITH DANGEROUS DRIVING? NO-ONE]
> describing the driving as "atrocious" and "dreadful".
>
> Go-Ahead London subsequently investigated the vehicle's internal and
> external CCTV images, as well as the speed-recording equipment, which
> It also showed Mr William speeding at 28mph in a 20mph zone [ALMOST AS
> FAST AS SOME CYCLISTS] and earlier ignoring a ban on reversing at
> Mortlake Bus Station without an assistant, a rule implemented when a
> member of the public was hit and killed.
> "Used his bus as a weapon"
>
> Court documents revealed the bus company's management team came to the
> conclusion their employee's driving was "reckless" and that he "used his
> bus as a weapon to retaliate".
>
> Mr William took his former employer to tribunal after an appeal upheld
> Go-Ahead's decision to dismiss him in July 2021. However, the judge threw
> out the claim of wrongful dismissal, saying Mr William had been
> "aggressive" and tried to "pincer the cyclist".
> The driver had claimed race and disability discrimination motivated his
> dismissal, although court documents suggest this was either withdrawn or
> thrown out prior to the final hearing. The tribunal judge had labelled
> attempts to justify the driving as "outlandish".
>
> Primary position
> road positioning - primary position approaching junction.jpg
>
> The Highway Code is clear on the safety benefits of riding in primary
> position, in the centre of your lane, and recommends cyclists travel in such a way when:
> On quiet roads or streets [NOTE] if a faster vehicle comes up
> member of the public was hit and killed.
> "Used his bus as a weapon"
>
> Court documents revealed the bus company's management team came to the
> conclusion their employee's driving was "reckless" and that he "used his
> bus as a weapon to retaliate".
>
> Mr William took his former employer to tribunal after an appeal upheld
> Go-Ahead's decision to dismiss him in July 2021. However, the judge threw
> out the claim of wrongful dismissal, saying Mr William had been
> "aggressive" and tried to "pincer the cyclist".
> The driver had claimed race and disability discrimination motivated his
> dismissal, although court documents suggest this was either withdrawn or
> thrown out prior to the final hearing. The tribunal judge had labelled
> attempts to justify the driving as "outlandish".
>
> Primary position
> road positioning - primary position approaching junction.jpg
>
> The Highway Code is clear on the safety benefits of riding in primary
> position, in the centre of your lane, and recommends cyclists travel in such a way when:
> behind you, move to the left to enable them to overtake [NOTE] if you can do so safely.
> In slower-moving traffic when the traffic around you starts to flow
> more freely, move over to the left if you can do so safely so that faster
> vehicles behind you can overtake.
> At the approach to junctions or road narrowings where it would be
> unsafe for drivers to overtake you.
[THERE IS NO MENTION OF A JUNCTION OR ROAD NARROWING IN THIS ACCOUNT]
> more freely, move over to the left if you can do so safely so that faster
> vehicles behind you can overtake.
> At the approach to junctions or road narrowings where it would be
> unsafe for drivers to overtake you.
> https://road.cc/content/news/bus-driver-loses-appeal-over-atrocious-driving-296359
--
Spike
swldx...@gmail.com
Oct 3, 2022, 4:34:58 PM10/3/22
to
An employment tribunal can clearly see a driver "used his bus as a weapon" but our police and courts never seem to come to that conclusion even with overwhelming evidence.
QUITE.
QUITE.
Spike
Oct 3, 2022, 5:52:58 PM10/3/22
to
pedal cyclists.
--
Spike
JNugent
Oct 4, 2022, 5:14:08 AM10/4/22
to
out-of-control fairy-cyclists.
swldx...@gmail.com
Oct 4, 2022, 5:16:39 AM10/4/22
to
"used his bus as a weapon to retaliate"
This was an attack, not a retaliation. The cyclist had not attacked the driver. The use of the word seeks to imply some sort of equivalence and victim-blaming, like the cyclist was attacked with a 12-ton weapon due to something they did. The cyclist had no part in the driver's cowardly actions.
Spike
Oct 4, 2022, 6:55:54 AM10/4/22
to
the cyclist was travelling too fast for the distance to the bus, could not
stop in time, and claimed the need to ‘bunny hop’ onto the pavement to
avoid a collision. Doubtless it was fortunate that no pedestrians were
injured by the cyclist saving his skin.
We see so much of this kind of thing; what is it about cyclists that they
have an almost universal hatred of slowing down or stopping, or even being
situationally aware?
--
Spike
swldx...@gmail.com
Oct 4, 2022, 9:10:57 AM10/4/22
to
I think ppl who do this should get 10 year driving bans and then have a special extended test to drive again..
Why let them ever drive again? If you have a shotgun licence and you use your shotgun to wound or attempt to wound another person, you will be banned from owning a firearm for life. This person was (and presumably still is, hopefully the police will take note of the circumstances of his dismissal and take action) licensed to drive a vehicle and used that vehicle to attempt to wound another person, the same logic should apply.
Why let them ever drive again? If you have a shotgun licence and you use your shotgun to wound or attempt to wound another person, you will be banned from owning a firearm for life. This person was (and presumably still is, hopefully the police will take note of the circumstances of his dismissal and take action) licensed to drive a vehicle and used that vehicle to attempt to wound another person, the same logic should apply.
Spike
Oct 4, 2022, 9:17:00 AM10/4/22
to
kicking that the latter gave the bus. That would be fair, wouldn’t it?
--
Spike
swldx...@gmail.com
Oct 4, 2022, 11:49:26 AM10/4/22
to
Good on that independent witness for reporting the driver. And good on the company for acting on it, although I suspect the accumalation of multiple different offences was the dismissal, not just this example of bad driving
I expect the chap was a cunt in general who the management are glad to see the back of.
JNugent
Oct 4, 2022, 12:11:45 PM10/4/22
to
On 04/10/2022 04:49 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Good on that independent witness for reporting the driver. And good on the company for acting on it, although I suspect the accumalation of multiple different offences was the dismissal, not just this example of bad driving
>
> I expect the chap was a cunt in general who the management are glad to see the back of.
A bit like BP and the rogue night-janitor who preferred posting to
>
> Good on that independent witness for reporting the driver. And good on the company for acting on it, although I suspect the accumalation of multiple different offences was the dismissal, not just this example of bad driving
>
> I expect the chap was a cunt in general who the management are glad to see the back of.
usenet to actually pushing the brush he was paid to push, eh?
swldx...@gmail.com
Oct 4, 2022, 12:52:14 PM10/4/22
to
1 hr ago
Depends on the circumstances. If you stopped every time you "held someone up", you wouldn't get very far in Central London. As also said ad nauseum, in Central London you are not really holding anyone up in the grand scheme of things because in a few moments of being overtaken the cyclist will re-overtake the car traffic.
53 min ago
The Highway Code advises cyclists NOT to cycle close to the kerb for these reasons- drains, uneven surfaces etc. sadly most drivers do not know this. Also, a cyclist has as much right to use the road as any vehicle driver- if, as a consequence, a car has to wait to pass, then so be it
Depends on the circumstances. If you stopped every time you "held someone up", you wouldn't get very far in Central London. As also said ad nauseum, in Central London you are not really holding anyone up in the grand scheme of things because in a few moments of being overtaken the cyclist will re-overtake the car traffic.
53 min ago
The Highway Code advises cyclists NOT to cycle close to the kerb for these reasons- drains, uneven surfaces etc. sadly most drivers do not know this. Also, a cyclist has as much right to use the road as any vehicle driver- if, as a consequence, a car has to wait to pass, then so be it
swldx...@gmail.com
Oct 4, 2022, 12:54:14 PM10/4/22
to
The hearing was told: "Mr Patel concluded that [Mr William] had been reckless. He had used his bus as a weapon to retaliate against the cyclist, who he felt was delaying him.
"Mr Patel concluded that [Mr William] did not understand that his actions were dangerous and accordingly, training would have no effect and there was no alternative to dismissal."
Mr William appealed the sacking and when this failed he began a legal case against London General Transport Services.
He claimed unfair and wrongful dismissal, saying he should have been given notice pay.
The London South tribunal rejected all Mr William's claims.
"Mr Patel concluded that [Mr William] did not understand that his actions were dangerous and accordingly, training would have no effect and there was no alternative to dismissal."
Mr William appealed the sacking and when this failed he began a legal case against London General Transport Services.
He claimed unfair and wrongful dismissal, saying he should have been given notice pay.
The London South tribunal rejected all Mr William's claims.
Brian
Oct 4, 2022, 4:59:40 PM10/4/22
to
it, you clearly either haven’t read / can’t read it or you don’t understand
it.
swldx...@gmail.com
Oct 4, 2022, 5:03:06 PM10/4/22
to
AND TOLD HIM NEVER TO DRIVE A PSV EVER AGAIN.
swldx...@gmail.com
Oct 4, 2022, 5:05:27 PM10/4/22
to
QUOTE: It also showed Mr William speeding at 28mph in a 20mph zone, and earlier ignoring a ban on reversing at Mortlake Bus Station without an assistant, a rule implemented when a member of the public was hit and killed. ENDS
Sacking offences on their own.
What a moron.
Sacking offences on their own.
What a moron.
Spike
Oct 4, 2022, 5:20:08 PM10/4/22
to
always being right even though the HC might say something different.
Whoever dreamed up this new HC clearly had little idea of the negative
impact it would have on cyclists by boosting their very fragile egos.
--
Spike
swldx...@gmail.com
Oct 4, 2022, 5:26:04 PM10/4/22
to
QUOTE:
> Depends on the circumstances. If you stopped every time you "held someone up", you wouldn't get very far in Central London. As also said ad nauseum, in Central London you are not really holding anyone up in the grand scheme of things because in a few moments of being overtaken the cyclist will re-overtake the car traffic. ENDS
It's all those "lefty" LTNs, innit?
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