dangerous substance???
Gadget
the cycle path. He was in front and I was about 2 metres behind him and a
little to the left of him. He goes through this puddle, about an inch deep,
with both wheels. I just miss this puddle but I noticed some strange
reaction happenning on both his wheels. They were dissolving and chunks had
started to fall of the tyres. This prompted him to slam on his brakes and
come to a halt. As we looked over his bike, paint, rubber and plastic was
peeling or dissolving in front of our eyes. Lucky for him his crud catcher
had prevented him getting any of the liquid in his eyes or on his skin. We
called the police and they took a sample of what was left in the puddle. It
was a clear-ish liquid with a yellow tint and about as thick as water. So
far the metal has shown no signs of corrosion, but the grease on his chain
has dissovled off his chain. I was wondering if any one would know what this
substance was. I am also posting this as warning to any one who uses the A10
cycle path, to watch out in case their is some nut doing this on purpose.
The incident happened near the north circular/A10 junction. The police had
the council come out and spray the path clean, but please be careful.
Gadget
Mr R@t (2.3 zulu-alpha) [comms room 2]
Gadget <Gadgetfr...@blueyonder.co.uk> typed:
> thick as water. So far the metal has shown no signs of corrosion, but
> the grease on his chain has dissovled off his chain. I was wondering
> if any one would know what this substance was.
Shit - this is a very nasty incident indeed.
Given the lack of corrosion on the metal and the way the rubber dissolved I
would suspect an organic solvent such as xylene, toluene or worse stiill a
halogenated derivative thereof. All of these things can certainly attack
grease, oil and rubber, and some of them will dissolve paintwork (they are
often used as solvents for enamel paints).
Of course, Any of the brainy people here with better chemical knowledge
(Simon M?) are welcome to add their thoughts
Thanks for the heads up - I am really worried that this *could* be
*deliberate* contamination of the road surface - there appears (from the
description you have given) to be too *little* of it to be an *accidental*
spill from a tanker - a spill normally ends up with the old bill, council
and Environment Agency/Defra becoming aware quite quickly, and road
closures, which people would have known about.
Even if someone is "just" dumping unwanted solvent from whatever back-yard
chemical process, this is an offence against EU environment protection regs,
and the fact this stuff ended up in the cycle lane is shocking.
What did the Police have to say about the incident? You may wish to consider
notifying the Press as well, although bear in mind if someone is reading the
paper and thinks "wow! look at the trouble I caused!" it could lead to
"copy-cat" incidents.
Alex
W K
"Mr R@t (2.3 zulu-alpha) [comms room 2]" <ratsn...@sovtel.su> wrote in
message news:4KJca.1310$b65...@newsfep1-gui.server.ntli.net...
> .In news:naJca.466$K66...@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk,
> Gadget <Gadgetfr...@blueyonder.co.uk> typed:
>
> > thick as water. So far the metal has shown no signs of corrosion, but
> > the grease on his chain has dissovled off his chain. I was wondering
> > if any one would know what this substance was.
>
> Shit - this is a very nasty incident indeed.
>
> Given the lack of corrosion on the metal and the way the rubber dissolved
I
> would suspect an organic solvent such as xylene, toluene or worse stiill a
> halogenated derivative thereof. All of these things can certainly attack
> grease, oil and rubber, and some of them will dissolve paintwork (they are
> often used as solvents for enamel paints).
Does sound like some sort of organic solvent, but I would have thought there
would have been a very obvious smell.
I'd go for the fly-tipping theory - such substances are supposed to have
fairly tightly regulated and presumably expensive disposal.
Mr R@t (2.3 zulu-alpha) [comms room 2]
W K <hyag...@tesco.net> typed:
> Does sound like some sort of organic solvent, but I would have
> thought there would have been a very obvious smell.
>
Could have been masked by wind or traffic fumes (remember, they are next to
the A10). Halogenated aromatics seem to have less "smell" than xylene or
toluene in their pure form.
> I'd go for the fly-tipping theory - such substances are supposed to
> have fairly tightly regulated and presumably expensive disposal.
Indeed so, and IIRC the rules have become *more* stringent perhaps as of
this year, especially with regard to the protection of the environment.
Anyone else noticed how that rather alarming sign with a picture of dead
tree and dead fish floating on a contaminated river is turning up more
frequently on solvent bottles?
Even so, it begs the question - *why* in the *cycle lane?* If it is
fly-tipping, I get the impression that this could be the work of a
pissed-off person in the chemical industry thinking -
"F**king eco-warrior types! Hmm, this stuff dissolves rubber.
I could seriously f*ck up their bikes if it were to end up in the cycle
lane. Perhaps one of them may even crash..."
Perhaps partly my paranoia, but IME people who are sociopathic enough to
fly-tip nasty chemicals are just as capable of finding *other* evil things
to do with them.
Alex
dannyfrankszzz
be looking out. Good call for pointing this out.
--
>--------------------------<
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Pete Biggs
Thanks for the warning and well done for calling the police (a lot of
people wouldn't have bothered).
~PB
Simon Mason
> .In news:naJca.466$K66...@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk,
> Gadget <Gadgetfr...@blueyonder.co.uk> typed:
>
> > thick as water. So far the metal has shown no signs of corrosion, but
> > the grease on his chain has dissovled off his chain. I was wondering
> > if any one would know what this substance was.
>
> Shit - this is a very nasty incident indeed.
>
> Given the lack of corrosion on the metal and the way the rubber dissolved I
> would suspect an organic solvent such as xylene, toluene or worse stiill a
> halogenated derivative thereof. All of these things can certainly attack
> grease, oil and rubber, and some of them will dissolve paintwork (they are
> often used as solvents for enamel paints).
Methyl Ketone)as this is a well known paint remover, but as this is
miscible in water and the police managed to get a sample of the liquid
on its own, it would appear to be an aromatic or chlorinated
hydrocarbon, like you described.
It is unlikely to be a pure solvent, more likely a mixture used in
perhaps the painting and decorating trade. They wouldn't chuck the
pure stuff away so maybe it was a job lot of used paint thinners for
cleaning brushes (at a guess)perhaps with trichloroethylene as a major
component (which attacks rubber and paint).
Although I've got my bike here at work and a load of "trike" I'm not
going to see what happens if I spray the stuff on it ;-)
Simon Mason
Mr R@t (2.3 zulu-alpha) [comms room 2]
Simon Mason <Mas...@BP.com> typed:
<A10 cycle lane solvent abuse>
> perhaps the painting and decorating trade. They wouldn't chuck the
> pure stuff away so maybe it was a job lot of used paint thinners for
> cleaning brushes (at a guess)perhaps with trichloroethylene as a major
> component (which attacks rubber and paint).
Yep - this seems feasible. It still begs the question of *why* a flytipper
would dump it on the cycle path (and draw attention to themselves), when
presumably it could have been dumped *elsewhere* and maybe gone relatively
unnoticed - apart of course from the cumulative damage to the environment.
Although of course there isn't evidence to suspect any kind of *organised*
campaign against cyclists, I can see how someone in the chemical or
construction industry *would* do this, having somehow ended up with surplus
solvent that now has to be disposed of in a manner that pushes the cost
*back* to them. Whether contaminating the cycle lane was a primary
intention, or just slipped into the polluters head is another matter.
Consider this scenario:
1. White van man doesn't like the new rules - he's just been quoted a high
price for solvent disposal
2. He thinks "eco-warriors" are responsible for this new unwanted cost to
his business.
3. Of course, all *cyclists* are eco-warriors ;)
4. So there he is, driving along the A10 . He spots the cycle lane. Look at
those bastards/bitches, they are taking up my road space/tax money and they
"don't even pay tax on their bikes"- and now they have *even got a bit of
road just for their filthy bikes!*
5. Aha - I know how I can get rid of this solvent *and* get back at the
eco-warriors at the same time...
OK this may sound paranoid - but from what I have read on pro-roads/cars
groups I believe that there are people out there prepared to do stuff like
this - after all if they will smash speed cameras, its only another step
down the line.
Again well done to the OP for telling us and the authorities and I hope the
coppers *do* find out the full story - before someone is hurt.
Alex