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My experience of the Alfine 11 DI2
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asr...@yahoo.co.uk
Aug 2, 2020, 3:32:06 PM8/2/20
to
Back in 2015 when I was nearly killed in a road collision, I got a custom built new bike at the end of the year to replace the one that was hit. I was aiming for a bike which was low maintenance and could easily withstand the rigours of commuting in all weathers on anything from main roads to narrow badly surfaced country lanes. I had a Surly frame, horizontal dropouts, an Alfine 11 DI2, disk brakes, Marathon Plus tyres, and a hub dynamo with a decent front and rear light (B&M).
The DI2 has been wonderful, when it works. It changes gear very smoothly, the bike shop routed the cabling inside the frame so very little cabling on the outside to get snagged on anything. No cables to periodically adjust. All that is needed is to recharge the battery occasionally and change the hub oil once every year or two. The other thing I liked was that getting the rear wheel off is trivial, all that is needed is to unplug the cable from the motor (just make sure you don't fiddle with the gears when unplugged).
As I say, it works beautifully most of the time. Problems have occurred with the snap ring which holds the rear sprocket on the hub. That has come off several times, always when I am a couple of miles from home, and it is a bastard to get on (it was initially for me anyway). After this happened several times, I did learn a technique for getting it back on, but sometimes found when everything had been put back the gearing indexing had gone haywire, and I couldn't get it re-indexed properly, so had to take it to the bike shop to get it fixed. This got tedious after the fourth time as the bike shop is nearly four miles away and necessitates putting the bike in the car and transporting it there (fortunately it will go in without any dismantling with the back seats down). This problem has ceased now as the bike shop told me the snap ring design has changed, and this has made it more secure on the hub.
This year I have had more drawn out problems. A week after lockdown started, the electronics completely died. It was still rideable but I was stuck in a too-low gear most of the time. Back to the shop. I didn't see the bike again for nearly two months. They had to go through all the connections (which are inside the frame) to find where the fault was. They eventually traced it to the junction box and they ordered in and fitted a new one and I think a new cable. Electronics back to life, I took the bike home and found the same old problem with the indexing being out. This obviouisly happened when the electronics died and I was trying to change gear and it took me a few seconds to realise nothing was happening. I had to take it back and get them to sort it out.
Another three weeks without the bike, and they couldn't get it working properly, they discovered the motor had failed (worn out they said), so that was £130 to replace (inc labour). I am disappointed it only lasted five years given I don't exactly hammer the bike or the gearing when I am riding.
To summarise, it is a double edged sword. Brilliant when it works, but when it fails, it fails badly to the point where I am unlikely to be able to fix it myself. If I ever got another bike or converted my folder to hub gears, I would be hesitant to go for the electronic version again. Cables do have their disadvantages, but a bit of fine tuning every now and again isn't that much of a chore, and if a cable gearing system fails, I can probably work out how to replace the cable if required.
The DI2 has been wonderful, when it works. It changes gear very smoothly, the bike shop routed the cabling inside the frame so very little cabling on the outside to get snagged on anything. No cables to periodically adjust. All that is needed is to recharge the battery occasionally and change the hub oil once every year or two. The other thing I liked was that getting the rear wheel off is trivial, all that is needed is to unplug the cable from the motor (just make sure you don't fiddle with the gears when unplugged).
As I say, it works beautifully most of the time. Problems have occurred with the snap ring which holds the rear sprocket on the hub. That has come off several times, always when I am a couple of miles from home, and it is a bastard to get on (it was initially for me anyway). After this happened several times, I did learn a technique for getting it back on, but sometimes found when everything had been put back the gearing indexing had gone haywire, and I couldn't get it re-indexed properly, so had to take it to the bike shop to get it fixed. This got tedious after the fourth time as the bike shop is nearly four miles away and necessitates putting the bike in the car and transporting it there (fortunately it will go in without any dismantling with the back seats down). This problem has ceased now as the bike shop told me the snap ring design has changed, and this has made it more secure on the hub.
This year I have had more drawn out problems. A week after lockdown started, the electronics completely died. It was still rideable but I was stuck in a too-low gear most of the time. Back to the shop. I didn't see the bike again for nearly two months. They had to go through all the connections (which are inside the frame) to find where the fault was. They eventually traced it to the junction box and they ordered in and fitted a new one and I think a new cable. Electronics back to life, I took the bike home and found the same old problem with the indexing being out. This obviouisly happened when the electronics died and I was trying to change gear and it took me a few seconds to realise nothing was happening. I had to take it back and get them to sort it out.
Another three weeks without the bike, and they couldn't get it working properly, they discovered the motor had failed (worn out they said), so that was £130 to replace (inc labour). I am disappointed it only lasted five years given I don't exactly hammer the bike or the gearing when I am riding.
To summarise, it is a double edged sword. Brilliant when it works, but when it fails, it fails badly to the point where I am unlikely to be able to fix it myself. If I ever got another bike or converted my folder to hub gears, I would be hesitant to go for the electronic version again. Cables do have their disadvantages, but a bit of fine tuning every now and again isn't that much of a chore, and if a cable gearing system fails, I can probably work out how to replace the cable if required.
Nick Maclaren
Aug 3, 2020, 4:05:30 AM8/3/20
to
Thank you for that. I have heard that the Alfine 11 is a lot more
reliable than it used to be (not hard!), but hadn't had reports of
the DI2. I now know to avoid them like COVID-19!
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
reliable than it used to be (not hard!), but hadn't had reports of
the DI2. I now know to avoid them like COVID-19!
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Sam Wilson
Aug 4, 2020, 8:19:37 PM8/4/20
to
Sam
--
The entity formerly known as Sam.W...@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply
Hauke Fath
Aug 4, 2020, 8:19:44 PM8/4/20
to
<asr...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> I had a Surly frame, horizontal dropouts, an Alfine 11 DI2, disk brakes,
> Marathon Plus tyres, and a hub dynamo with a decent front and rear light
> (B&M).
>
> The DI2 has been wonderful, when it works.
I have to admit I had to use a search engine on the Alfine part -
> I had a Surly frame, horizontal dropouts, an Alfine 11 DI2, disk brakes,
> Marathon Plus tyres, and a hub dynamo with a decent front and rear light
> (B&M).
>
> The DI2 has been wonderful, when it works.
haven't really kept up with recent developments, have I?
Anyway,
<https://bikeshed.johnhoogstrate.nl/bicycle/drivetrain/shimano_alfine_inter_11/>
looks very complete, so I would like to share it.
Cheerio,
Hauke
--
Now without signature.
Ian Jackson
Aug 4, 2020, 8:19:53 PM8/4/20
to
In article <79e463f4-a2c9-4095...@googlegroups.com>,
<asr...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>[tale of woe]
Top hit on duckduckgo for `alfine 11 di2' is a video titled
"long term reviee [sic]" whose ddg-cached summary says
Long term review of Shimano's Alfine 11 speed hub with di2
electronic shifting. Performance excellent but reliability problems
with oil leaks and electrical...
--
Ian Jackson <ijac...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> These opinions are my own.
Pronouns: they/he. If I emailed you from @fyvzl.net or @evade.org.uk,
that is a private address which bypasses my fierce spamfilter.
<asr...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>[tale of woe]
Top hit on duckduckgo for `alfine 11 di2' is a video titled
"long term reviee [sic]" whose ddg-cached summary says
Long term review of Shimano's Alfine 11 speed hub with di2
electronic shifting. Performance excellent but reliability problems
with oil leaks and electrical...
--
Ian Jackson <ijac...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> These opinions are my own.
Pronouns: they/he. If I emailed you from @fyvzl.net or @evade.org.uk,
that is a private address which bypasses my fierce spamfilter.
Nick Maclaren
Aug 5, 2020, 4:41:48 AM8/5/20
to
In article <sax*df...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
considerably, and it's now much better. It's certainly been fitted
on a lot of cycles, is used quite extensively, and doesn't produce
the stream of complaints that it used to. But it's not something I
would buy, if I could avoid it.
Hauke's link indicated dire efficiency, too.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Ian Jackson <ijac...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>In article <79e463f4-a2c9-4095...@googlegroups.com>,
> <asr...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>[tale of woe]
>
>Top hit on duckduckgo for `alfine 11 di2' is a video titled
>"long term reviee [sic]" whose ddg-cached summary says
>
> Long term review of Shimano's Alfine 11 speed hub with di2
> electronic shifting. Performance excellent but reliability problems
> with oil leaks and electrical...
To be fair, it has been reported that Shimano have improved it very
>In article <79e463f4-a2c9-4095...@googlegroups.com>,
> <asr...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>[tale of woe]
>
>Top hit on duckduckgo for `alfine 11 di2' is a video titled
>"long term reviee [sic]" whose ddg-cached summary says
>
> Long term review of Shimano's Alfine 11 speed hub with di2
> electronic shifting. Performance excellent but reliability problems
> with oil leaks and electrical...
considerably, and it's now much better. It's certainly been fitted
on a lot of cycles, is used quite extensively, and doesn't produce
the stream of complaints that it used to. But it's not something I
would buy, if I could avoid it.
Hauke's link indicated dire efficiency, too.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
asr...@yahoo.co.uk
Aug 8, 2020, 5:54:25 AM8/8/20
to
I have gone as far as looking into whether a Rohloff could be installed, but I'm not sure about that, as I think there are a limited number of frames comaptible with Rohloff, and I'm not sure if Surly Straggler is one of them.
Zebee Johnstone
Aug 8, 2020, 6:32:57 AM8/8/20
to
In uk.rec.cycling.moderated on Wed, 5 Aug 2020 01:42:23 -0700 (PDT)
while there are hacks available they are just that...
Mind you, no idea how a 14 speed barend would work!
Zebee
- who is on the 2nd Alfine 8 after the first died of salt water
ingestion. Some 5 years after said ingestion.
>
> I have gone as far as looking into whether a Rohloff could be installed, but I'm not sure about that, as I think there are a limited number of frames comaptible with Rohloff, and I'm not sure if Surly Straggler is one of them.
Every time I think of a Rohloff I remember that it's gripshift. And
> I have gone as far as looking into whether a Rohloff could be installed, but I'm not sure about that, as I think there are a limited number of frames comaptible with Rohloff, and I'm not sure if Surly Straggler is one of them.
while there are hacks available they are just that...
Mind you, no idea how a 14 speed barend would work!
Zebee
- who is on the 2nd Alfine 8 after the first died of salt water
ingestion. Some 5 years after said ingestion.
Kim Wall
Aug 8, 2020, 8:30:12 AM8/8/20
to
On 08/08/2020 11:32, Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> Every time I think of a Rohloff I remember that it's gripshift. And
> while there are hacks available they are just that...
>
> Mind you, no idea how a 14 speed barend would work!
I think the Kindernay approach has promise: Do all the indexing stuff at
> Every time I think of a Rohloff I remember that it's gripshift. And
> while there are hacks available they are just that...
>
> Mind you, no idea how a 14 speed barend would work!
the hub end, with the shifters (one for up, one for down) just toggling
it up and down by some number of steps at a time, rather than covering
the whole range of travel. Currently they only have trigger shifters,
but I suppose a bar-end might be practical along the same lines.
Kim.
--
Tosspot
Aug 9, 2020, 3:44:40 PM8/9/20
to
On 02/08/2020 21:21, asr...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
<snip aggravation>
> To summarise, it is a double edged sword. Brilliant when it works,
> but when it fails, it fails badly to the point where I am unlikely to
> be able to fix it myself. If I ever got another bike or converted my
> folder to hub gears, I would be hesitant to go for the electronic
> version again. Cables do have their disadvantages, but a bit of fine
> tuning every now and again isn't that much of a chore, and if a cable
> gearing system fails, I can probably work out how to replace the
> cable if required.
I run the Alfine 11 with the under bar trigger shifters, and it is now
in "out of my cold dead hands" territory. The lever is a thumb and
finger shifter both having a two gear long pull if you need to shift
gears faster. The hub must have 10-12,000 km on it now and seems to
work fine, although reading around it might be coming to end of life.
Oil change every year takes 30 minutes. The weak spot is actually the
clear plastic on the shifter which doesn't like sun/UV. It
cracks/crazes to a milky white after 2-3 years, but is at least a
replaceable part.
Electrickery has it's place (mechanical speed/odometers anyone[1]?) but
for gear shifting I remain unconvinced. It's an option for the Rohloff,
and since I can't get anywhere near reasonable under bar shifters I keep
looking at it, but it's a) expensive and b) I'm not sure I'd trust it.
[1]
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wiivilik-Mechanical-Connection-Speedometer-Accessories/dp/B07ZVKR17F
<snip aggravation>
> To summarise, it is a double edged sword. Brilliant when it works,
> but when it fails, it fails badly to the point where I am unlikely to
> be able to fix it myself. If I ever got another bike or converted my
> folder to hub gears, I would be hesitant to go for the electronic
> version again. Cables do have their disadvantages, but a bit of fine
> tuning every now and again isn't that much of a chore, and if a cable
> gearing system fails, I can probably work out how to replace the
> cable if required.
in "out of my cold dead hands" territory. The lever is a thumb and
finger shifter both having a two gear long pull if you need to shift
gears faster. The hub must have 10-12,000 km on it now and seems to
work fine, although reading around it might be coming to end of life.
Oil change every year takes 30 minutes. The weak spot is actually the
clear plastic on the shifter which doesn't like sun/UV. It
cracks/crazes to a milky white after 2-3 years, but is at least a
replaceable part.
Electrickery has it's place (mechanical speed/odometers anyone[1]?) but
for gear shifting I remain unconvinced. It's an option for the Rohloff,
and since I can't get anywhere near reasonable under bar shifters I keep
looking at it, but it's a) expensive and b) I'm not sure I'd trust it.
[1]
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wiivilik-Mechanical-Connection-Speedometer-Accessories/dp/B07ZVKR17F
Tosspot
Aug 9, 2020, 4:00:11 PM8/9/20
to
On 05/08/2020 10:42, asr...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 5, 2020 at 1:19:53 AM UTC+1, Ian Jackson wrote:
>> In article
>> <79e463f4-a2c9-4095...@googlegroups.com>,
>> <asr...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>> [tale of woe]
>>
>> Top hit on duckduckgo for `alfine 11 di2' is a video titled "long
>> term reviee [sic]" whose ddg-cached summary says
>>
>> Long term review of Shimano's Alfine 11 speed hub with di2
>> electronic shifting. Performance excellent but reliability
>> problems with oil leaks and electrical...
>>
>> -- Ian Jackson <ijac...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> These opinions
>> are my own.
>>
>> Pronouns: they/he. If I emailed you from @fyvzl.net or
>> @evade.org.uk, that is a private address which bypasses my fierce
>> spamfilter.
>
> I'd forgotten to add in my review that I did have a problem with an
> oil leak (it dripped on the floor when the bike was hung overnight,
> fortunately I have laminate flooring), that resulted in the hub being
> replaced under warranty.
They don't have a good seal, in fact I don't think they have one at all,
> On Wednesday, August 5, 2020 at 1:19:53 AM UTC+1, Ian Jackson wrote:
>> In article
>> <79e463f4-a2c9-4095...@googlegroups.com>,
>> <asr...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>> [tale of woe]
>>
>> Top hit on duckduckgo for `alfine 11 di2' is a video titled "long
>> term reviee [sic]" whose ddg-cached summary says
>>
>> Long term review of Shimano's Alfine 11 speed hub with di2
>> electronic shifting. Performance excellent but reliability
>> problems with oil leaks and electrical...
>>
>> -- Ian Jackson <ijac...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> These opinions
>> are my own.
>>
>> Pronouns: they/he. If I emailed you from @fyvzl.net or
>> @evade.org.uk, that is a private address which bypasses my fierce
>> spamfilter.
>
> I'd forgotten to add in my review that I did have a problem with an
> oil leak (it dripped on the floor when the bike was hung overnight,
> fortunately I have laminate flooring), that resulted in the hub being
> replaced under warranty.
because every time I overfill one it leaks, but every oil change, the
right amount comes out. In short, the bike must stay upright if left
for extended periods, say 24 hours. I've wondered if a bit of PTFE
would improve it, but I can't be bothered.
> I have gone as far as looking into whether a Rohloff could be
> installed, but I'm not sure about that, as I think there are a
> limited number of frames comaptible with Rohloff, and I'm not sure if
> Surly Straggler is one of them.
configuration and it's fit and forget. Yes you might need a but of zip
tie buggery to route both cables, but that is always the case and can be
done neatly.
Tosspot
Aug 9, 2020, 4:01:31 PM8/9/20
to
look at the Kindernay. Friendly folks as well.
Adam Lea
Jan 13, 2021, 2:53:26 PM1/13/21
to
It keeps on letting me down. More leakage from the hub. Back to the LBS who put a new seal on. Got the bike back Christmas eve before travelling to stay with my father (social bubble) up north over Christmas. Came back to find a tablespoon of oil on my lounge floor and the electronics had died. Back to the LBS who have had it for a week and a half. Here is what they said:
"We have been looking at your bike over the last few days to try and sort out both the leaking and the Di2 issue.
I believe both issues are connected. The main A seal we changed last time the bike was in has stopped almost all leaking from the hub but whilst it was leaking it seems a pretty large amount of oil made its way into the motor. I think this is the oil that has been dripping slowly rather than directly from the hub. We have managed to get most of the oil from the motor using compressed air and now when connected the electronics seem to be working fine. We have run an error check using the Shimano software too and all seems fine.
To double check if the hub is leaking we have left it since Saturday on its side to put as much pressure on the drive side seals as possible and have now seen some oil coming from the part of the hub which actuates the gear change. Sadly the seals for this section of the hub are not available separately, but only as a whole unit. Owing to the fact it took 3 days for the oil to make its way out with the hub on its side I don't think this leak is anything like the one you had before.
Now the electric system is working and with the hub assembled on the bike with the oil for the most part removed from the motor the dripping seems to have stopped. The bike is ready to go and I think we will just have to see how it goes. But if it does start leaking again it's really a new hub I'm afraid."
I'm now thinking I should have gone for the cable version, despite that potentially having its own issues.
"We have been looking at your bike over the last few days to try and sort out both the leaking and the Di2 issue.
I believe both issues are connected. The main A seal we changed last time the bike was in has stopped almost all leaking from the hub but whilst it was leaking it seems a pretty large amount of oil made its way into the motor. I think this is the oil that has been dripping slowly rather than directly from the hub. We have managed to get most of the oil from the motor using compressed air and now when connected the electronics seem to be working fine. We have run an error check using the Shimano software too and all seems fine.
To double check if the hub is leaking we have left it since Saturday on its side to put as much pressure on the drive side seals as possible and have now seen some oil coming from the part of the hub which actuates the gear change. Sadly the seals for this section of the hub are not available separately, but only as a whole unit. Owing to the fact it took 3 days for the oil to make its way out with the hub on its side I don't think this leak is anything like the one you had before.
Now the electric system is working and with the hub assembled on the bike with the oil for the most part removed from the motor the dripping seems to have stopped. The bike is ready to go and I think we will just have to see how it goes. But if it does start leaking again it's really a new hub I'm afraid."
I'm now thinking I should have gone for the cable version, despite that potentially having its own issues.
Rob Morley
Jan 17, 2021, 12:24:34 PM1/17/21
to
On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 02:53:02 -0800 (PST)
Adam Lea <asr...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> I'm now thinking I should have gone for the cable version, despite
> that potentially having its own issues.
But if you can figure out the storage orientation best suited to
Adam Lea <asr...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> I'm now thinking I should have gone for the cable version, despite
> that potentially having its own issues.
minimising seepage, and attack it with an air gun occasionally, you have
a fully functional hub. This clever technology makes our lives better,
thank you Shimano.
Adam Lea
Jan 17, 2021, 10:40:29 PM1/17/21
to
Tosspot
Jan 17, 2021, 10:40:37 PM1/17/21
to
SG7001. The drive side seems to be a dust cap. If the SG7001 has the
correct amount of oil in it, it doesn't leak, but on it's side it will,
at least the two I've owned have from new.
This is a warranty issue?
Kerr-Mudd,John
Jan 21, 2021, 2:49:13 PM1/21/21
to
On Sun, 17 Jan 2021 17:24:18 GMT, Rob Morley <nos...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 02:53:02 -0800 (PST)
> Adam Lea <asr...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm now thinking I should have gone for the cable version, despite
>> that potentially having its own issues.
>
> But if you can figure out the storage orientation best suited to
> minimising seepage, and attack it with an air gun occasionally, you have
I misread this approach; I'd have thought anger-management classes and
> On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 02:53:02 -0800 (PST)
> Adam Lea <asr...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm now thinking I should have gone for the cable version, despite
>> that potentially having its own issues.
>
> But if you can figure out the storage orientation best suited to
> minimising seepage, and attack it with an air gun occasionally, you have
careful maintenance would be better!
> a fully functional hub. This clever technology makes our lives better,
> thank you Shimano.
>
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
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