How much was a groat worth?
Lee Derbyshire
Hi All,
I was given a Henry VIII groat for Christmas. I was just curious as to what
it would have been roughly equivalent to in modern currency? It's made of
silver, so I suppose it would have been something like a pound coin
nowadays. I know it's not easy to compare things like this, but does anyone
have any pointers? Is 'groat' actually the correct contemporary name?
Thanks,
Lee.
Darren
A groat was four pence.
Not sure whether you are also asking what four pence is equivalent to
now... that's a really hard question for the likes of me.
Tell you what, I'll give you a shiny new 2004 pound coin for it and we
call it quits? ;)
Thanks
Darren
PaulB
is equal to 1 2/3 new pence (decimal system)
"Lee Derbyshire" <em...@owaforpda.com> wrote in message
news:btjvgi$7t7ak$1...@ID-163854.news.uni-berlin.de...
a@tleederbyshired.0.tc.0.m Lee Derbyshire
news:btjvgi$7t7ak$1...@ID-163854.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
Great, thanks for the replies. I never realized that the L S D money had
been around for so long.
Did they have any more coin names? Pennies, Groats, Shillings, etc?
Lee.
Scottishmoney
"Lee Derbyshire" <email a@t leederbyshire d.0.t c.0.m> wrote in message
> Great, thanks for the replies. I never realized that the L S D money had
> been around for so long.
>
> Did they have any more coin names? Pennies, Groats, Shillings, etc?
>
> Lee.
Starting at the beginning:
Farthing
Halfpenny
Penny
Threepence
Groat or Fourpence
Sixpence
Shilling
Florin or Two Shilling
Halfcrown or Two Shillings Sixpence
Crown or 5 Shillings
Half Sovereign or 10 Shillings
Sovereign or One Pound
The groat was derived from a French coin, the Gros Tournois, which was equal
to four French deniers. There were a few groats struck in the reign of
Edward I(1272-1307) but mostly for symbolic purposes. During the reign of
Edward III(1327-1377) they began to circulate extensively, and were the
largest silver coin in circulation for over a hundred years. During the
reign of Edw III they were the equivalent of four days wages for most
labourers. During the earliest years of the reign of Henry VIII they had
declined to perhaps 3 days wages, but when Henry VIII, better known
contemporarily as "Old Coppernose" for debasing the coinage, was through
they were perhaps a day and a half to two days labour value.
Dave Parrish
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 1/2/04
Darren
leederbyshire d.0.t c.0.m> wrote:
>Great, thanks for the replies. I never realized that the L S D money had
>been around for so long.
>
>Did they have any more coin names? Pennies, Groats, Shillings, etc?
>
>
Coin names... there were quite a few!
Angel
Broad
Crown
Double Crown
Double Florin
Farthing
Fifty Shillings
Five Guineas
Five Pounds
Florin
Fourpence
Groat
Guinea
Half Angel
Half Crown
Half Farthing
Half Florin
Half Groat
Half Guinea
Half Laurel
Half Noble
Half Pound
Half Sovereign
Half Unite
Halfpenny
Laurel
Noble
Penny
Pound
Quarter Angel
Quarter Farthing
Quarter Florin
Quarter Guinea
Quarter Laurel
Quarter Noble
Ryal
Shilling
Sixpence
Sovereign
Testoon
Third Farthing
Third Guinea
Three Farthings
Three Shillings
Threehalfpence
Threepence
Triple Unite
Twenty Pence
Two Guineas
Two Pounds
Two Pence
Unite
and then there's the decimal coins...
a@tleederbyshired.0.tc.0.m Lee Derbyshire
news:vvrh9t...@corp.supernews.com...
Hi Dave. Thanks for taking the time to compose such a detailed reply. So
they basically had everything I 'grew up with' plus the groat and the (half)
sovereigns.
I believe the one I have is early Henry VIII, mainly because the head looks
younger than the image we associate with him; although it's hard to be
sure - it's not too easy to make out.
Thanks again.
Lee.
Rod Wakefield
from "Lee Derbyshire" <email a@t leederbyshire d.0.t c.0.m> contains
these words:
> Great, thanks for the replies. I never realized that the L S D money had
> been around for so long.
> Did they have any more coin names? Pennies, Groats, Shillings, etc?
Yes. They had Drupny Bits, Tanners, Dree-Apnces, and such like.
Don't forget that LSD was around in Roman times also.
--
Rod
remove the flobby bit to reply
Darren
leederbyshire d.0.t c.0.m> wrote:
>Hi Dave. Thanks for taking the time to compose such a detailed reply. So
>they basically had everything I 'grew up with' plus the groat and the (half)
>sovereigns.
>
>I believe the one I have is early Henry VIII, mainly because the head looks
>younger than the image we associate with him; although it's hard to be
>sure - it's not too easy to make out.
>
>Thanks again.
Lee
What Dave failed to mention, including a few coin names :)... was that
at some point he's probably collected them all!
Regarding you Henry VIII if you could provide a scan or photo I'm sure
the good people reading this will be able to identify where it was
made and give a good indication of the date etc. Usual way to do this
is to make the file available on a website.
If I'm given long enough and the picture is good enough, who knows I
might be able to work it out as well.
Thanks
Darren
PS - Did you know that an 1816 Shilling issued during the reign of
George IV good have been used as such as late as 1990... when they
made that annoying little 5p and all the old shillings disappeared. I
don't remember getting one in my change though!
>Lee.
>
tony
Dear Lee
See my web site for more information...
Regards
--
Tony Clayton tony.cla...@pem.cam.ac.uk or to...@tclayton.demon.co.uk
Coins of the UK : http://www.tclayton.demon.co.uk/coins.html
Values of Coins of the UK : http://www.tclayton.demon.co.uk/values/coins.html
Metals used in Coins : http://www.tclayton.demon.co.uk/metal.html
Sent using RISC OS on an Acorn Strong Arm RiscPC
... There is no gravity--The earth sucks!
Scottishmoney
"Darren" <darren....@tenretnitb.moc> wrote in message
news:b9irvvk65m14muc9h...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 18:46:30 -0000, "Lee Derbyshire" <email a@t
> leederbyshire d.0.t c.0.m> wrote:
>
> >Great, thanks for the replies. I never realized that the L S D money had
> >been around for so long.
> >
> >Did they have any more coin names? Pennies, Groats, Shillings, etc?
> >
> >
>
> Coin names... there were quite a few!
>
> Angel
> Broad
> Crown
>
Come on Darren, admit it, you know you looked in your Seaby or Spinks to
come up with all of those:)
Now your challenge, and I mean this too, get one of each for your
collection.
Dave
Patrick Maloney
To answer what I think you were actually asking - the coins used at the time
of Henry VIII (as opposed to a complete list of all pre-decimal
denominations), are listed below:
In GOLD -
First Coinage (1509 - 1526)
Sovereign (20/- (shillings))
Ryal (10/-)
Angel (6/8 - i.e. one third of a pound)
Half angel (3/4 - one sixth of a pound)
Second Coinage (1526 - 1544) - this is confusing, some coins had the same
names but different values, others had different names but the same values
as in the first coinage.
Sovereign (22/6)
Angel (7/6)
Half angel (3/9)
George noble (6/8)
Half George noble (3/4)
Crown of the Rose (4/6)
Crown of the Double Rose (5/-)
Halfcrown (2/6)
Third coinage (1544 - 1547) Confusion again...
Sovereign (20/-)
Half sovereign (10/-)
Angel (8/-)
Half angel (4/-)
Quarter angel (2/-)
Crown (5/-)
Halfcrown (2/6)
In SILVER - Three coinages again, but the values didn't change as they did
with the gold coins.
Testoon (1/- = 12d) Third coinage only.
Groat (4d)
Halfgroat (2d)
Penny
Halfpenny
Farthing
The other denominations mentioned (3d, 6d, etc.) were not issued at this
time.
Regards,
Patrick
--
___________________________________________________________
Romans on a Budget - www.BudgetRomans.com
"Lee Derbyshire" <email a@t leederbyshire d.0.t c.0.m> wrote in message
news:10735972...@ananke.eclipse.net.uk...
a@tleederbyshired.0.tc.0.m Lee Derbyshire
news:btjvgi$7t7ak$1...@ID-163854.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
Well, I've learned a lot from this ng today, many thanks to you all.
Darren asked if I could put some scans on a Web site; here are two for those
that are interested:
www.leederbyshire.com/groat1.jpg
www.leederbyshire.com/groat2.jpg
Lee.
Darren
<scotti...@charter.net> wrote:
>
>Come on Darren, admit it, you know you looked in your Seaby or Spinks to
>come up with all of those:)
Tis true - but a test of my typing skills and all without the aid of a
safety net.
>Now your challenge, and I mean this too, get one of each for your
>collection.
I'm having a milled shilling frenzy at the moment... keep looking for
a 1707 Edinburgh Queen Anne but to no avail. As for one of each, I
think I'd need to make that a lifes work, but for now there's
something about shillings, oh, and pound notes, anything with Hadrian
on it... tokens featuring Wellington (don't think you 'mericans made
it to Waterloo did you?)
Thanks
Darren
PS - This weekend should be banknote weekend!
Scottishmoney
"Darren" <darren....@tenretnitb.moc> wrote in message
> a 1707 Edinburgh Queen Anne but to no avail. As for one of each, I
> think I'd need to make that a lifes work, but for now there's
> something about shillings, oh, and pound notes, anything with Hadrian
> on it... tokens featuring Wellington (don't think you 'mericans made
> it to Waterloo did you?)
>
I have a milled 1707 E shilling, but 'tis not for sale, it is only one of a
couple of Anne coins I have and the only one from Scotland during that
reign.
BTW when you broaden your collecting interests to tokens you greatly expand
the possibilities of thematic collecting, especially with 18th and 19th
century British. I never really got into them, I have less than 10 of them,
most of mine are connected with industrial subjects, such as the
Coalbrookedale Tokens. I have always thought it would be interesting to
collect the ones connected with some of the contemporary politics,
especially those that made reference to Thomas Paine.
We 'Mericans did not make it to Waterloo, we were busy winning a battle at
New Orleans against the the compatriots of the victors at Waterloo.
Darren
leederbyshire d.0.t c.0.m> wrote:
>
>Darren asked if I could put some scans on a Web site; here are two for those
>that are interested:
>
>www.leederbyshire.com/groat1.jpg
>www.leederbyshire.com/groat2.jpg
>
OK... so I'll have a stab at this...
To my eye this looks to be a Second Coinage (1526-1544) London Mint
with an arrow mintmark but it wasn't too clear.
That would mean on the obverse it says HENRIC VIII DI GRA REX AGL Z FR
and I can make most of this out - translated it reads as Henry VIII by
the grace of God King of England and France. The reverse reads POSVI
DEU ADIVTORE MEU - I have made God my helper.
My first hammered coin was also a Henry VIII groat but from 1547-1551
so a new one ;)
Thanks
Darren
Scottishmoney
"Darren" <darren....@tenretnitb.moc> wrote in message
He was the only post Richard III monarch I did not have a coin from.
a@tleederbyshired.0.tc.0.m Lee Derbyshire
news:0kjtvvo79m646ihcs...@4ax.com...
I'm amazed you can make out that writing. Comes with practice, I guess.
How come the Z translates as 'and' ? Is it a symbol, rather than an
abbreviation?
Darren
leederbyshire d.0.t c.0.m> wrote:
>> OK... so I'll have a stab at this...
>>
>> To my eye this looks to be a Second Coinage (1526-1544) London Mint
>> with an arrow mintmark but it wasn't too clear.
>>
>> That would mean on the obverse it says HENRIC VIII DI GRA REX AGL Z FR
>> and I can make most of this out - translated it reads as Henry VIII by
>> the grace of God King of England and France. The reverse reads POSVI
>> DEU ADIVTORE MEU - I have made God my helper.
>>
>> My first hammered coin was also a Henry VIII groat but from 1547-1551
>> so a new one ;)
>>
>> Thanks
>> Darren
>
>I'm amazed you can make out that writing. Comes with practice, I guess.
>How come the Z translates as 'and' ? Is it a symbol, rather than an
>abbreviation?
Lee
I am doing what was done to me...
Some of the lettering I can make out - enough to recognise the coin.
The rest... well I have this book ;)
Thanks
Darren
>
