Place name pronunciation

[The NewsBrowser]

Hi all,

I have a question about the pronunciation of the names
of two mountains (Skiddaw and Sca Fell) in the Lake
District. I thought they were pronounced Skid'-door
and Scar-Fell' respectively, but I hear this is not the
case. Could anyone confirm this?

--
Akin

akin at aksoto dot idps dot co dot uk

[Lakeuk]

I think it depends which part of cumbria you're in, down in south cumbria
it's pronounce how you think it is.

Another example is Holker Hall, down in the south with say it as it reads,
but Border TV news pronounce it as Hucker Hall.

Dave in Kendal

"The NewsBrowser" <n...@newsbrowser.com> wrote in message
news:9eon7t$f4gs$1...@ID-18325.news.dfncis.de...

[Bob Wightman]

In article <9eon7t$f4gs$1...@ID-18325.news.dfncis.de>, The NewsBrowser
<n...@newsbrowser.com> writes

>Hi all,
>
>I have a question about the pronunciation of the names
>of two mountains (Skiddaw and Sca Fell) in the Lake
>District. I thought they were pronounced Skid'-door
>and Scar-Fell' respectively, but I hear this is not the
>case. Could anyone confirm this?
>

Being from South Cumbria (Cartmel) I would pronounce them Skidder and
Scawfell, this is an older spelling BTW. If I drop into broader Cumbrian
then it becomes Scawfle. On the same lines, I have heard Bowfell
pronounced in two ways: the first pronounces the bow as in bow and
arrow, the other pronounces it as in bow wow. I heard the latter from
Keith Rowan who is the farmer at Stool End farm.

Cumbrian pronunciation is definitely different between the north and
south of the county: the north has some similarities with Geordie.

Other local pronunciations include: dale (as in Langdale) is somewhere
between "dle" and "dull"; thwaite (as in Satterthwaite) is "thet".
Little, is pronounced "lile", so "Lile Langdle"

My spell checker is going nuts at this so I'll stop:-)
--
Bob Wightman

[Philip Simms]

How about "Eshdal"? and while we are on the subject there is a place over by
Coniston which is commonly known as Dow Crag. The original 1920s Fell and
Rock guide says this should be pronounced as Doe Crag like the deer

Philip Simms
The fringe of the English Lakes looking across the sea to Scotland
"Bob Wightman" <b...@pattinson.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:FLMRDFAM...@pattinson.demon.co.uk...

[Bob Wightman]

In article <9eqpbk$eth$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>, Philip Simms <philip@simm
s1.freeserve.co.uk> writes

>How about "Eshdal"? and while we are on the subject there is a place over by
>Coniston which is commonly known as Dow Crag. The original 1920s Fell and
>Rock guide says this should be pronounced as Doe Crag like the deer

Eshdal sounds like you have just had one too many! :-)

--
Bob Wightman

[The NewsBrowser]

Bob Wightman wrote in message ...

>In article <9eon7t$f4gs$1...@ID-18325.news.dfncis.de>, The NewsBrowser
><n...@newsbrowser.com> writes
>>Hi all,
>>
>>I have a question about the pronunciation of the names
>>of two mountains (Skiddaw and Sca Fell) in the Lake
>>District. I thought they were pronounced Skid'-door
>>and Scar-Fell' respectively, but I hear this is not the
>>case. Could anyone confirm this?
>>
>
>Being from South Cumbria (Cartmel) I would pronounce them Skidder and
>Scawfell, this is an older spelling BTW. If I drop into broader Cumbrian
>then it becomes Scawfle. On the same lines, I have heard Bowfell
>pronounced in two ways: the first pronounces the bow as in bow and
>arrow, the other pronounces it as in bow wow. I heard the latter from
>Keith Rowan who is the farmer at Stool End farm.

Hi Bob,

That's what I had heard; however, I take it that Cumbrians are
a friendly folk, and that I won't be flayed alive if I accidentally
mispronounce the names? :)

[Bob Wightman]

In article <9erb6r$q628$1...@ID-18325.news.dfncis.de>, The NewsBrowser
<n...@newsbrowser.com> writes

>Bob Wightman wrote in message ...

>>Being from South Cumbria (Cartmel) I would pronounce them Skidder and
>>Scawfell, this is an older spelling BTW. If I drop into broader Cumbrian
>>then it becomes Scawfle. On the same lines, I have heard Bowfell
>>pronounced in two ways: the first pronounces the bow as in bow and
>>arrow, the other pronounces it as in bow wow. I heard the latter from
>>Keith Rowan who is the farmer at Stool End farm.
>
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>That's what I had heard; however, I take it that Cumbrians are
>a friendly folk, and that I won't be flayed alive if I accidentally
>mispronounce the names? :)
>

Depends
--
Bob Wightman

[r.na...@btclick.com]

Philip Simms <phi...@simms1.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9eqpbk$eth$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...

> How about "Eshdal"? and while we are on the subject there is a place over
by
> Coniston which is commonly known as Dow Crag. The original 1920s Fell and
> Rock guide says this should be pronounced as Doe Crag like the deer

I have a 1920s guide to the Lakes where:

Wasdale is spelled Wastdale
Brotherilkeld is listed as Butterilkel
Catstye Cam is written as Kidstycam

Interesting to know when the T fell out of Wastdale, and when the other 2
names "morphed". Bill O'Connor gives a derivation of Catstye Cam as from "
a steep wildcat's path" but the derivation "steep young goat's path" seems
more logical... though logic in place names is something I've learned to be
wary of.

Rob

[r.na...@btclick.com]

<r.na...@btclick.com> wrote in message
news:xpmQ6.2967$hD.51020@NewsReader...

> I have a 1920s guide to the Lakes where:
>
> Wasdale is spelled Wastdale
> Brotherilkeld is listed as Butterilkel
> Catstye Cam is written as Kidstycam

Shouldn't reply to myself, I know, but I've just noticed that elsewhere in
the same book, Catstye Cam (Catstycam) is given as Catchedicam. Maybe these
spellings are peculiar to this one book rather than having been in general
use in the 1920's. Anyone know?

Rob

[Steve Pardoe]

Hi, Rob & all,

<r.na...@btclick.com> wrote in message
news:ntnQ6.2976$hD.51225@NewsReader...
>
<snip>

> Shouldn't reply to myself, I know, but I've just noticed that elsewhere in
> the same book, Catstye Cam (Catstycam) is given as Catchedicam. Maybe
these
> spellings are peculiar to this one book rather than having been in general
> use in the 1920's. Anyone know?

The same spelling [Catchedicam] is used by Leslie Stephen in "The Playground
of Europe". Cracking read, BTW.

It struck me as odd when I read it, but I think it must have been the
accepted spelling at the end of the 19th century.

HTH,

Steve

[David Flint]

Cam means step if it is Cumbric.
<r.na...@btclick.com> wrote in message
news:xpmQ6.2967$hD.51020@NewsReader...

[David Flint]

Catch, as in Cumcach, means dung. Cach(edi)Cam. Dung something Step. Seems
like a survival of bits of Cumbric.
<r.na...@btclick.com> wrote in message
news:ntnQ6.2976$hD.51225@NewsReader...

[David Flint]

Cach ydi cam? Dung there is step. It could originally have been a Cumbric
phrase meaning something like "Don't step on the dung (on that path)".
"Steve Pardoe" <st...@pardoes.com> wrote in message
news:th48u4k...@corp.supernews.co.uk...

[Philip Simms]

If you do have book 1 from 1923 have a look at the title. "Doe Crag and
Climbs around Coniston.A Climbers Guide by George S. Bower".It may not say
it in the text but I think it is clear enough what they called it in those
days.

Philip Simms
The fringe of the English Lakes looking across the sea to Scotland

<r.na...@btclick.com> wrote in message
news:xpmQ6.2967$hD.51020@NewsReader...

[Dave Atkinson]

In article <9eon7t$f4gs$1...@ID-18325.news.dfncis.de>,
The NewsBrowser <n...@newsbrowser.com> writes

>Hi all,

>
>I have a question about the pronunciation of the names
>of two mountains (Skiddaw and Sca Fell) in the Lake
>District. I thought they were pronounced Skid'-door
>and Scar-Fell' respectively, but I hear this is not the
>case. Could anyone confirm this?

I say "Skidda" and "Skaw-fell"

If necessary replace "nospam.please" when replying
--
Dave Atkinson E-Mail : webm...@kynson.org.uk
WWW : http://www.kynson.org.uk
icq : 43284545
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