Death in Zion [and stuff about abseil knots]
richard connors
Leaning Wall. During the last abseil Ross fell to his death.
Ross and I are from the UK and were on a trip visiting various crags
in the US.
There is a lot of stuff spinning around in my head as I write this,
but my main thought is to let people know what (it seems) was the
cause of this accident. The main factor in this has surprised a good
number of the climbers I have talked to.
I know there has been some discussion of this on the web already.
Hopefully by telling the whole story - however irrelevant some of it
might be - all of the various questions might be answered. I will try
to reply to any questions where I can tell you something vaguely
useful.
%==== The long story [skip ahead for the facts] ====%%
On Monday we climbed the first four pitches and returned to the
ground, leaving ropes in place to jug the next day. All the anchors we
used were fixed, except maybe for the one at the top of the first
pitch.
Pitch 1 is slightly grotty 5.6 climbing. Pitch 2 is a pretty nice 5.7
flake and ends at the left end of a large sandy ledge. We fixed a 60m
rope ("the blue" 60mx10.5mm) to this anchor, having got beta saying
this would just reach the ground. Pitch 3 is a mixed bag of sandy 5.5
and ends at the base of a huge smooth clean red wall, the stuff we
came to do. We fixed "the green" (55mx10.5mm) to this anchor and
chucked it back down to the sandy ledge (top of pitch 2). Pitch 4 is
where it gets fun. I lead the pitch (C2 aid) and Ross followed,
cleaning the gear. We fixed our 60m lead rope ("the yellow"
60mx10.5mm) to this anchor and abseiled down. Then down the green to
the sandy ledge. Then down the blue (carefully checking it reached)
back to the ground. It didn't quite reach the dirt, but left us with
maybe 20ft of trivial down-shuffling to get back to our bags. We left
the 3 ropes in place and headed off for a beer.
Tuesday morning we jugged the ropes. Amongst all the other crap you
take aid climbing, we had a 9mm rope. We planned to lead on the yellow
(the top fixed rope) and take the 9mm to deal with the double-rope
abseils on the descent. We would chuck the green down to the big sandy
ledge as we went past it, and then could retrieve the green and the
blue by jugging just the blue on Wednesday and abseiling down.
I set off first, Ross followed. I got to the top of pitch 4 as Ross
arrived at the top of pitch 3. Ross had got some two-way radios
earlier on the trip and we chatted on the radio: the weather forecast
had been slowly deteriorating for the last 3 days, today was 50%
chance of afternoon rain, there were a lot of gloomy clouds brewing
above us, the sandstone is all bad in the wet, we were not super fast
aid climbers...there were a lot of reasons for continuing, mostly that
I didn't want to have to lead that C2 pitch again!! A brief spot of
rain actually hit us and we decided to bail.
I pulled up the 9mm rope, tied it to the yellow, stripped the anchor
and descended to the top of pitch 3. Meantime Ross had been untying
the green from this anchor and getting ready to set up a double-rope
abseil. I got down to him, chucked him the end of the yellow to tie to
the green and started pulling the ropes down from above.
Ross headed off down to the big sandy ledge as I coiled the 9mm and
put it on my back. He radioed me to say "rope free" and I headed down.
I arrived on the big sandy ledge about 10-15ft away from the anchor -
Ross was off to my left, already clipped into the anchor and sorting
out the blue rope, ready to set up the last abseil. I chucked the
loose end of the yellow to Ross and started pulling the ropes from
above. I was unclipped at this point - being a very bad boy, even
though it was a huge ledge. This was actually the only thing that
struck me as unsafe about our whole day. As the knot came down, I
stopped and untied it to free the yellow, which was now all tangled up
in plants and rocks on the ledge. Ross fed it over the edge as I
untangled it from everything on the ledge. I started pulling the green
down as Ross sorted himself out over at the anchor. I was coiling the
green rope as Ross called over to say "see you at the bottom in a few
minutes", he saw me coiling the green and offered to carry it, since I
had the 9mm already on my back, but he already had our daysack on so I
said I was fine taking it down. I turned to just finish up coiling the
green and at that moment he fell.
I rushed over and there was nothing there - our ropes had gone, Ross
had gone, the anchor was fine, untouched. Everything floated for a
moment, slipped sideways and turned unreal - then I started
shouting...I knew I had to get down in case by some impossible chance
there was something I could do to help him. I was yelling down to the
road and got someone's attention, they flagged down one of the shuttle
buses and shouted that help was coming. I had the 55m green and the
50mx9mm ropes with me. I couldn't get to the ground in one go but I
knew there was another anchor (top of the Alpine Start for those that
know it) that I would be able to reach. I set up the double rope
abseil and set off down. The ropes tangled around everything - it was
a complete shambles. I saw the rangers and the ambulance arrive; the
rangers were racing up the hill to Ross. I set up the second abseil,
it was all taking so long...as I reached the ground one of the rangers
came over to tell me what I already knew.
%%==== Some stuff that I do know ====%%
Ross was found with the two ropes correctly through his belay device.
The ropes extended about 10feet "above" him (the other 190feet being
"below" his belay device) and the ends were not tied together.
Throughout this trip we had always been tying ropes together using a
fig-eight knot (more below).
The only other abseil Ross set up that same day (from top of pitch 3
down to the big ledge) he had used the fig-eight knot with no back up
knot on the tails. The knot was neat, I don't remember exactly how
long the tails were but they didn't cause me a second glance.
I could not see exactly what Ross was setting up on that last abseil -
he was 10ft or so to my left and was sitting (while clipped in) so
that he obscured my view of the anchor.
The fig-eight I refer to is tied as follows: The two ends you want to
join are held parallel with the ends "pointing" in the same direction.
You grab both ropes together and then tie a regular single fig-eight
knot in both ropes at once.
What we did NOT use: The only other way that might be confused is when
you have the ends pointing in opposite directions. Tie a single
fig-eight in one rope then follow this through with the other rope -
we did NOT do this.
%%==== The important bit ====%%
Some guys that were helping me out played around in their yard with
this fig-eight method, tying it and trying to pull the knot apart.
They found some worrying things.
-The way the ropes pull on this knot on a double-rope abseil deforms
the knot badly.
-If the knot is not perfectly "dressed", in particular if there is a
single slack loop anywhere on the fig-eight, they could pull the knot
through even with 6 INCHES of tails, just pulling the ropes apart as
happens naturally on an abseil. 6 inches of tails is NOT ENOUGH. If
you use this knot, tie a back up knot and leave LONG tails. It scares
me to think that I could have innocently/ignorantly made this same
catastrophic mistake.
%%==== My thoughts (not facts) ====%%
The only plausible explanation of this accident I have come up with is
that the knot slipped off the ends. I won't go through all the
alternate scenarios and my objections to them here. I hope it doesn't
sound contradictory to say that Ross was a safe climber. I never saw
him rig a belay that I thought was unsafe, never saw him do anything
that made me think "does he realise that's pretty dodgy".
We were not in a big rush getting down. We were moving quickly and
efficiently but with no sense of panic or anything like that.
Ross knew that the last abseil was a long one and we would be a bit
tight on rope. I can imagine that would make him want to keep the knot
pretty near the ends, but I do not believe he would only leave
something ridiculous like one inch of tails. I think he must have tied
the knot with something like 6inches of tails, thinking this was
plenty (go tie the knot - it looks good with this much rope sticking
out of it) and maybe he didn't make it all neat and snug. I think when
he set off he was happy with his set-up, not thinking at all that the
tails were dangerously short.
The first 30feet of this abseil are a little slabby - and with two 60m
ropes you do have to feed armfuls through your belay device at the top
- the first few feet of such an abseil are always a bit jerky. I guess
he fed through a couple of armfuls of rope and hence bounced the knot
just a couple of times, which caused it to fail.
While I will never know for sure what happened, I do know what any of
you can prove to yourselves - that you can get this knot to fail even
with 6 inches of tails. I did not know that the necessary margin for
safety was so wide for this knot, I am sure Ross did not realise this
either.
The ropes involved (the blue and yellow) have been sent to one of the
testing guys at Black Diamond who is going to run some relevant tests
involving this fig-eight knot. I will post anything they find that
might be of interest.
%%==== Last words ====%%
Thoughts of Ross are vividly etched in the minds of almost everyone he
met. We miss him terribly.
The only other thing I want to say here is that the Rangers at Zion
were incredible; the way they dealt with the incident, the diligence
of their investigation and the compassion that they showed me...I have
only praise for everything they did. I was overwhelmed by the
generosity of so many other people in Springdale - it's a small town
of wonderful people. Despite everything, I have some very fond
memories of Zion and the people I met.
It is a beautiful place - you should go there and climb those amazing
walls.
rc
Nate
"richard connors" <
> On May 21st I was descending with my friend Ross from Spaceshot
Thanks for sharing the story. It's been a horrible spring for climbers.
Check out:
http://www.tradgirl.com/climbing_faq/advanced.htm
for some past discussions here...
- Nate
Hugh McNeil
happened before with the same results. The Figure eight knot as you describe
it is not to be used as you and Ross had. Tying a simple overhand knot (with
the same technique you used to tie your eight with a one foot tail) is
infinitely safer, as well as more practical.
Unfortunately, some regulars on this group argued at that time in favour of
your knot, in spite of being able to offer no practical reason for its use
over the overhand knot.
Hugh McNeil
"richard connors" <rcon...@mathworks.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3c0c9936.02061...@posting.google.com...
rick
richard connors wrote:
> On May 21st I was descending with my friend Ross from Spaceshot on the
> Leaning Wall. During the last abseil Ross fell to his death.
(snip)
thanks rc for the story.
d
Jason Liebgott
"richard connors" wrote ...
> On May 21st I was descending with my friend Ross from Spaceshot on the
> Leaning Wall. During the last abseil Ross fell to his death.
> Ross and I are from the UK and were on a trip visiting various crags
> in the US.
<snip>
Richard - thanks for sharing your story with us. Ross sounds like an amazing
guy... no doubt he's climbing the granite arches right now (probably
partnered with Chuck Pratt). Please accept my condolences on the loss of
your friend and partner.
Jason Liebgott
Lynne
> On May 21st I was descending with my friend Ross from Spaceshot on the
> Leaning Wall. During the last abseil Ross fell to his death.
> Ross and I are from the UK and were on a trip visiting various crags
> in the US.
Dear Richard,
I also want to thank you for sharing your and Ross' story. It made a
profound impact on me and you have done me and other rec.climbers a great
service. My deepest condolences on the loss of your partner and friend. My
heart really goes out to you, along with my gratitude.
Sincerely,
Lynne
Andy Gale
richard connors wrote:
> On May 21st I was descending with my friend Ross from Spaceshot on the
> Leaning Wall. During the last abseil Ross fell to his death.
> Ross and I are from the UK and were on a trip visiting various crags
> in the US.
Thank you for the report. I am very sorry for your loss. I was in Zion
the friday following your accident (on Moonlight) and had left for the
trip right after reading that someone had died on Spaceshot, without
knowing any details. I remember looking over there and wondering.
You might find this following page informative. Though it is sad that
you didn't see it before your trip. Esp tests 3 and 4.
http://www.xmission.com/~tmoyer/testing/EDK.html
Take care, Andy
Frank Stock
Thanks for sharing this with us. My condolences go out to you.
As hard as it must be to write about, you have provided a gem of valuable
information for this group to digest.
Frank
"richard connors" <rcon...@mathworks.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3c0c9936.02061...@posting.google.com...
robDotCalm
the accident, which may help others avoid so tragic an outcome. To write of
such an event requires much thoughtfulness, generosity, and not a little
courage.
Second. Andy, in the tests for which you kindly provided the URL, mention
is made of a knot "capsizing". What does that mean?
Cheers,
rob.calm
"Andy Gale" <ag...@NOSPAM.edu> wrote in message
news:3D0A1652...@NOSPAM.edu...
Nate B
"robDotCalm"
> Second. Andy, in the tests for which you kindly provided the URL, mention
> is made of a knot "capsizing". What does that mean?
Capsizing is what he calls it when the knot rolls over toward the tails due
to the tension on the rope.
Basically, as the tests show, the reason not to use a figure 8 is because of
this "capsizing". If you have short tails, the knot will roll off the ends.
Tom used 12" tails in his tests, as noted at the top of that page.
My criticism of tests like this is that they are still a relatively small
and controlled sample.
For work, I design stuff for high volume production in third world
countries. The differences in the problems you see on a pilot production
line here in CO vs the real high volume lines in SE Asia are often pretty
amazing and baffling. A fraction of a % yield loss often equates to
millions of dollars.
This is at least the second serious accident now using these shortcut
knots - one overhand knot in the Tetons and now one figure-8 in Zion. So -
how many in this great wide world over all time have plummeted to their
death because of using a fisherman's? How long has the fisherman's been a
standard vs the new overhand knots? Just a thought.
- Nate
Andy Gale
robDotCalm wrote:
> First, thanks to Richard for sharing this story and providing the details of
> the accident, which may help others avoid so tragic an outcome. To write of
> such an event requires much thoughtfulness, generosity, and not a little
> courage.
>
> Second. Andy, in the tests for which you kindly provided the URL, mention
> is made of a knot "capsizing". What does that mean?
A knot capsizes when it inverts and rolls over itself. In this setup (a
figure eight with both tails coming out the same end of the knot) the
knot would then be a couple inches or more closer to the ends of the
rope. In this manner the knot can roll itself right off the rope.
I would guess that this is what happened to Ross. Note how little force
it took to do this when the knot wasn't cleanly tied and tightened.
Andy
Michael A. Riches
rke...@hotmail.com wrote on 6/14/02 10:43 AM:
>
> Second. Andy, in the tests for which you kindly provided the URL, mention
> is made of a knot "capsizing". What does that mean?
>
> Cheers,
> rob.calm
Basically the knot rolls off the ends of the rope. When outward pressure is
applied to the knot it forces it to invert on itself and can continue to
invert all the way off the ends. The EDK will also do this, but properly
dressed it takes a much greater effort to get it to invert.
My condolences, also, to Richard and to the friends and family of Ross.
Ratzzz...
Thor Lancelot Simon
Michael A. Riches <rock...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>in article 53pO8.43978$6m5....@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net, robDotCalm at
>rke...@hotmail.com wrote on 6/14/02 10:43 AM:
>
>>
>> Second. Andy, in the tests for which you kindly provided the URL, mention
>> is made of a knot "capsizing". What does that mean?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> rob.calm
>
>Basically the knot rolls off the ends of the rope. When outward pressure is
>applied to the knot it forces it to invert on itself and can continue to
>invert all the way off the ends. The EDK will also do this, but properly
>dressed it takes a much greater effort to get it to invert.
The difference in force is not the only difference. There's much more rope
in an 8 than in an overhand knot -- so if your 8 capsizes, it's going to be
that much more likely to capsize *off the end of the tails*, which is what
will kill you.
--
Thor Lancelot Simon t...@rek.tjls.com
But as he knew no bad language, he had called him all the names of common
objects that he could think of, and had screamed: "You lamp! You towel! You
plate!" and so on. --Sigmund Freud
Ken....@cs.cmu.edu
> This is at least the second serious accident now using these shortcut
> knots - one overhand knot in the Tetons and now one figure-8 in Zion. So -
> how many in this great wide world over all time have plummeted to their
> death because of using a fisherman's?
Do you mean how many have died because their knot jammed? I don't
know. I've had my knot jam in a wilderness a looooong way from home.
Fortunately, the rocks it pulled down didn't hit us, but they could
have. Just a though.
Julie
>
> %%==== Last words ====%%
Richard,
We're all so sorry for your loss.
Many thanks for sharing the costly wisdsom.
JSH
Anderz
>From: "Julie" jh...@fu.bu.edu
>Date: 14/06/2002 22:41 GMT Daylight Time
>Message-id: <aedn5g$8jp$1...@news3.bu.edu>
Thank you for your post. I am sure it will have provided as many experienced
climbers with invaluable information as it has to myself as a novice. As has
been stated you have done us all a service by doing so.
I would like to understand fully what the issues are here. I have been taught
to use a rethreaded firgure of 8 where you follow the single figure of 8
through but for speed have just been using the figure of 8 knott where you pull
through the doubled up rope. I am assuming this is sadly the knott that may
have caused the death of your friend. I understand the issues off it
"capzising" on itself especially if the tails are not long enough and alwasy
try to pull it tight from each end (dressing?) so it is tight and thought the
figure of 8 rethreaded or not was a "cinch" knott which gets tighter with the
more pressure that is put on it?
Which knott should I be using to attatch my krab which is in turn attached to
my harness to the rope I am climbing on is really what I woudl like to know
please? Also is it just the non rethreaded figure of 8 that is dangerous or
are both the non rethreaded (doubled up) and rethreaded dangerous? If this
knott is dangerous then I would not like to get into the habit of using it.
Once again thank you for posting this as this is not something that is made
wholly apparant to the beginner even with the obvious dangers with the heights
and surfaces involved.
Hopefully this will make my climbing and the climbing of the people I go out
with a safer experience.
It has certainly made me more aware.
Thank you also for the web sites, they are being read very carefully.
Anderz
Sean
Anderz wrote in message ...
> Which knott should I be using to attatch my krab which is in turn attached
to
> my harness to the rope I am climbing on is really what I woudl like to
know
> please? Also is it just the non rethreaded figure of 8 that is dangerous
or
> are both the non rethreaded (doubled up) and rethreaded dangerous? If
this
> knott is dangerous then I would not like to get into the habit of using
it.
Anderz,
I'm assuming you're not trolling here, if you were it would be in very poor
taste..
You've misunderstood the original post a bit.
You're asking 'how should I tie in to my harness', and a fig-8 is perfectly
fine for that. Rather than use a karabiner, its preferable to tie directly
into your harness for top-roping, and essential to do so for leading. That
means a re-threaded fig 8. (Or a bowline, but lets not get into that.)
See Stefan's FGA question 4: "What type of knot should I use to tie in" at:
http://www.cs.bris.ac.uk/~stefan/FGA.html
What's being discussed in the 'Death in Zion' thread is how to join two
ropes together to use their full length for an abseil. Until you gain some
more experience, you really dont want to get into a situation where this is
an issue, but you can read more about this in Dawn Alguard's excellent
rec.climbing FAQ at:
http://www.tradgirl.com/climbing_faq/advanced.htm#rappel
Sean
x
Anderz
>about abseil knots])
>From: "Sean" deepMU...@freeuk.com
>Date: 16/06/2002 13:41 GMT Daylight Time
>Message-id: <10242313...@iris.uk.clara.net>
>
>http://www.tradgirl.com/climbing_faq/advanced.htm#rappel
>Anderz wrote in message ...
>
>> Which knott should I be using to attatch my krab which is in turn attached
>to
>> my harness to the rope I am climbing on is really what I woudl like to
>know
>> please? Also is it just the non rethreaded figure of 8 that is dangerous
>or
>> are both the non rethreaded (doubled up) and rethreaded dangerous? If
>this
>> knott is dangerous then I would not like to get into the habit of using
>it.
>
>Anderz,
>
>I'm assuming you're not trolling here, if you were it would be in very poor
>taste..
>
What makes you think I would be trolling? I am a novice as was very clearly
stated, that comment was not required and was indeed in bad taste in itself.
Thank you for the advice all the same.
Anderz