Starting problem - Mk2 Golf GTi 16v
Simon Worby
Our 1989 Golf will not start from cold. The colder the weather, the
worse it is. The only way to get it to start is to hold the key just
at the point where the starter motor is being switched on and wiggle
it ever so gently in that position. It will then start. It will not,
however, start when the ignition switch is in the full on (cranking)
position.
As soon as it starts it runs as sweet as a nut. It's done 89,000
miles. It has plenty of power, revs well to the red line, and is
returning reasonably good fuel economy.
Starter motor turns the engine over fine.
Brand new heavy duty battery.
New ignition switch.
New spark plugs; distributor cap and rotor checked.
The mechanic says that it is sparking with 10kV when cranking.
There is plenty of fuel getting to the engine, and the cold start
injector is functioning correctly.
In short there is nothing obviously wrong at all!
Can anyone help?
Thanks in advance.
Simon Worby
Newbury
Tim
in the start position the current to acceceries is cut off and full voltage
is deliverd to the coil via another circuit , I have had this break down on
a golf before , to test this put a tester on the + site of the coil and i
think you will find that when the ignition is in the on position you will
have current but when in the start position this will dissapere hence no
start unless the key is held in-between the 2 positions , you say you have
replaced the ignition switch which can also cause the same fault so have a
test of this and if this is the case mail me and I will have a look at a
diagram and have a go at suggesting a cure
Tim
timh...@timharris.plus.com
"Simon Worby" <s...@lestac.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bsrd5t0ug4hnscetl...@4ax.com...
Martin Tunstall
about the sensors and circuitry behind it? I know my engine has suffered in
the past from seemingly serious problems, but I eventually traced them back
to something as simple as a corroded contact.
Anyway, I'm not an expert on things like this, but I've included a link to a
site which has helped me out a few times, hope it's useful to you!
Good luck,
Mart
http://www.petroject.com/Sysdiagn.htm
Simon Worby
<Martin....@btinternet.com> wrote:
>Simon, you say that the cold start injector is working OK, but are you sure
>about the sensors and circuitry behind it?
No, I don't understand exactly what these modern (!) engines are
supposed to do. I'm okay with an A-series...
>I know my engine has suffered in
>the past from seemingly serious problems, but I eventually traced them back
>to something as simple as a corroded contact.
The mechanic took the cold start injector out and said that it
appeared to be working correctly.
The trouble is: it will not even fire in the cranking position.
There's absolutely nothing there - dead as a dodo. But as soon as it's
running it's absolutely sweet. So the problem is something to do with
the starting circuit, rather than the basic ignition/fuel system.
>Anyway, I'm not an expert on things like this, but I've included a link to a
>site which has helped me out a few times, hope it's useful to you!
Thanks for responding to my post. I'll have a look at the site. As you
can image, I have been hunting around a bit, as the problem first came
to light during the really cold spell.
I'll let everyone know how I get on.
Regards,
Simon
Simon Worby
<timh...@timharris.plus.net> wrote:
>There is a overide contact on the ignition circuit so that when the key is
>in the start position the current to acceceries is cut off and full voltage
>is deliverd to the coil via another circuit , I have had this break down on
>a golf before , to test this put a tester on the + site of the coil and i
>think you will find that when the ignition is in the on position you will
>have current but when in the start position this will dissapere hence no
>start unless the key is held in-between the 2 positions , you say you have
>replaced the ignition switch which can also cause the same fault so have a
>test of this and if this is the case mail me and I will have a look at a
>diagram and have a go at suggesting a cure
Hello Tim,
Thanks for responding.
I can hear what appears to be a relay clicking when trying to start
the engine by wiggling the key between the two positions. I think some
Golfs had ballast ignition systems, but the mechanic tells me that
this one hasn't.
As you say, the headlights, radio, electric windows, etc. are switched
off in the cranking position; the problem is that the mechanic
measured a good spark (10kV) in the cranking position, but the engine
wouldn't start. So the indication would be that the coil *was* getting
power.
What I just don't understand is that fuel was there, and spark was
there, but it won't go with the key turning the engine over; it won't
even think about firing, let alone starting. It really is as if you
had taken the king HT lead off, yet apparently there *is* a spark.
The other thing that occurred to me was timing. Trouble is: I have no
idea how it works on this car. I was wondering if, when the circuit
was switched (as you mention) into the cranking position that whatever
controls the timing could have been taken out, and therefore the spark
was happening at completely the wrong time. Do you know how the timing
works on this engine?
Having said which, my doubts lie mainly with the spark, as your seem
to. I'll try your test tomorrow when it's light and let you know.
In the meantime, if you understand the timing on these damned things,
I'd be delighted to know...
Regards,
Simon
Bill Brockbank
when it was running in standard trim a few year back.
I was told to run another earth wire from the battery to the starter bolt,
so the cranking current could work directly, and not draw the power away
form the likes of the ECU, fuel pump, coil etc... I did this and.....
amazingly it started 1st time every time.
the bottom line must have been tired/poor connections somewhere dropping too
many volts from something vital. You could try this simply by clipping a
jump lead from the battery earth to the starter bolts.
worth a try
good luck
regards
bill brockbank
--
(Director - Badger5 Ltd)
bi...@badger5.co.uk
http://www.badger5.co.uk
http://www.throttlebodies.com
Registered Office: 57 Adelaide Gdns, Stonehouse, Glos, GL10 2PZ, UK.
Tel: +44(0) 1453 827936
Fax: +44(0) 870 0561360
Simon Worby
<bi...@badger5.co.uk> wrote:
>I have heard and tried successfully personally to cure this on my own 16v,
>when it was running in standard trim a few year back.
>I was told to run another earth wire from the battery to the starter bolt,
>so the cranking current could work directly, and not draw the power away
>form the likes of the ECU, fuel pump, coil etc... I did this and.....
>amazingly it started 1st time every time.
>the bottom line must have been tired/poor connections somewhere dropping too
>many volts from something vital. You could try this simply by clipping a
>jump lead from the battery earth to the starter bolts.
>worth a try
Bill,
Thanks for replying.
Unfortunately, one of the first things I tried was to run an
additional earth lead from the -ve on the engine (admittedly not as
close as the starter bolt, but should eliminate bad earth problems
between the battery and the engine). It didn't make a jot of
difference.
Apparently voltage (and potential difference) is there - plenty of it.
But I agree with you that I think that the voltage is dropping
drastically from something vital. I just don't know what it is!
Regards,
Simon
Dave Hall
start? Maybe the ignition feed is being interrupted during starting.
--
Dave.
UK VW Type 3 & 4 Club
http://www.hallvw.clara.co.uk/
------
"Simon Worby" <s...@lestac.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
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Simon Worby
wrote:
>Do you get a spark using a spare plug on one of the leads while trying to
>start? Maybe the ignition feed is being interrupted during starting.
Yes, but it looks weak to me.
Which is strange as the mechanic put his gadget on which indicated a
healthy 10kV. Apparently only around 3kV is required. But how much
current is there?
If there is very little power behind the spark, could this mean that
once you put the spark plug down a dark and smelly hole and surround
it with a compressed petrol and air mixture it no longer sparks?
I don't know enough about ignition systems!
Regards,
Simon
Simon Worby
<s...@lestac.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Can anyone help with suggestions on the following problem:
>
> <snip>
A big thank you to everyone who contributed their thoughts on this.
The problem is now (touch wood) solved.
It was the TCI-H switch - (Transistor Controlled Ignition with Hall
sender). As I understand it, this unit interprets the signal from the
hall probe and switches the current to the coil on and off.
The reason s spark of 10kV was measured was because the first spark
(i.e. when you turned the key to the cranking position) was there, as
was the last (i.e. when you turned the key back). However, for the
time the key was in the cranking position, there was only an extremely
weak spark, either because of the very slow engine speed during
cranking or (more likely) because the TCI-H unit was not functioning
correctly with the reduced voltage whilst the starter was turning.
Thanks once again to everyone who took the time to respond.
Simon Worby