VW Golf Choke
vinylnetwork
automatic choke - I'm obviously not doing something right as the car keeps
stalling when its cold - can someone give me a step by step walk through of
how to set it?
Thanks
Richard Adkins
"vinylnetwork" <vinyln...@cornwall-county.com> wrote:
Well been here, done it, and got the T-Shirt!
The carb on the 1.6 Driver is a Pierburg 2E2 (with an EZ engine). The cold
start system is quite a complicated affair with many different systems
combining to sustain the engine while cold and in the warm-up phase.
The principle on which the system works via a bi-metallic strip (wound like
a clockspring, which is connected to the choke flap), which is mounted on
the right of the carb when looking from the front of the engine bay towards
the windscreen in an alloy casting with a flow and return coolant hoses.
Although this is controlled via the temperature of the coolant, there is
also a electric heating coil. On cold start the coolant is cold, hence has
little effect initially on the strip. Hence until a sensor detects the water
temp reaching (15°C) and a relay switches the coil off. This heats the strip
and starts to open the choke flap. From here as the coolant increaes in
temperature the strip expands, causing the choke flap to become fully open.
But there is also a secondary circuit, which sets the choke flap in two key
inital positions. This is controlled via vacuum from the engine upon
starting, which operates the pulldown unit. This controls the opening of the
choke flap during warm up. The choke flap should be open slightly (2.5MM I
think). As vacuum builds the pull down unit opens the flap further to (5.4MM
+/- 0.1MM). The pulldown unit slided has a small allen bolt which is used to
set the second stage position. Again once coolant temp increases, the
pulldown unit has done its job and the bi-metallic strip is in control.
When the engine is stopped and cools, the bi-metallic strip slowly closes
the choke flap, until it reaches the initial postion for the choke flap as
controlled by the pulldown unit.
Having had very similar problems on my 87 Driver, even after replacing the
automatic choke unit - £60 from a VW dealer! (the heating coil had failed),
there was little improvement. With a new pulldown unit (£16 from a VW
dealer) and hoses to the vacuum resvoir, then resetting the choke flap
position, the engine has run perfectly from cold. To test the
pulldown unit, a vacuum pump is required to test the vacuum
system, easier to check the hoses and replace the unit. Previously the
engine would be over choked from cold, and it was not until the temp gauge
needle was virtually out of the white bolck zone that the engine would idle
at all due to the choke trying to flood the engine!
Other possible culprets for poor cold performance, could be the plugs,
leads, and distributor cap. A really good guide is the Haynes Carb Manual
which details how the Pierburg 2E2 and others work. But use it in
conjunction with a Haynes manual specifically on the Golf MK2, as some of
the data on the car section does contradict!
TTFN
--
Richard Adkins
TTFN
--
Richard Adkins
Dave Le Good
"vinylnetwork" <vinyln...@cornwall-county.com> wrote:
That's a big task :) As a first step check all the vacum pipes.
As a second step, Haynes do a Carb manual. Try the local libary.
Good luck
Dave
D Speir
at it facing the car. The Haynes manual tells you how to check this as well
as the thermal time valve just behind the 3 point unit. These are currently
not functioning properly on my scirocco (same block and carb as the golf)
and can be tricky to get started on these cold Scottish mornings!
Richard Adkins <Rich@*nodamnspam*.adkins.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:a6e60a5...@adkins.demon.co.uk...
steve briance
ill carb, but my advice is change it now for a weber. i had a whole
catalogue of running probs (and runnign on!) with my old 2E2 carb scirocco.
fixed them all and gained more power, throttle response and economy in an
afternoon. yuo could well end up spending £100 on parts in trial and error,
spend just over £200 on a complete new carb.
steve.
Dave Le Good wrote in message ...
Richard Adkins
therml timing valve is another thing to check.
In message <Frgn6.984$me1.5...@news2.cableinet.net>
"D Speir" <d.s...@cableinet.co.uk> wrote:
TTFN
--
Richard Adkins
Dave Hall
2E2 is hideously expensive new, so the Webber is the only realistic
replacement, but if it's simply a vac hose or electric connection at fault,
it's worth getting to understand the carb and sorting out the problem. They
are good carbs, sophisticated yes, complicated yes, but they generally do
work well provided they don't get worked on by someone who can't speak their
lingo.
There have been people who have contacted the NG recently with trouble with
the replacement Weber, in cold weather for example. It is a less
sophisticated piece of equipment, and therefore has more compromises in its
design.
--
Dave.
UK VW Type 3 & 4 Club
http://www.hallvw.clara.co.uk/
------
Richard Adkins
servicing to keep on top of it. Plus even VW main dealers have few
technicians qualified to work on carbs these days, as most VW's since 92
have fuel injection, so electronic diagnostic tools are used, and parts just
replaced, without investigating how/why they failed and learning from the
experience.
A cheaper option than buying a weber if you know it is the choke which is
the problem, would be to buy a manual choke conversion kit for £30.
In message <97mk32$ofs$1...@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>
"steve briance" <st...@briance.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
TTFN
--
Richard Adkins
Richard Adkins
you will be hard pressed to find a new one. When i had trouble the local VW
ageet could not find one in the spares network in the UK. Even when they
contacted Germany they similarly could not say how ,long it would take to
get a replacement. So the only answer is to get to know your carb, as parts
for the 2E2 are available. Certainly it is better carb than the evil Ford VV
carb fitted to early Ford (spit) Escort mk3 1600!
In message <5LTn6.24830$sB4.3...@nnrp4.clara.net>
"Dave Hall" <da...@hallvw.clara.net> wrote:
TTFN
--
Richard Adkins
Emma Pullen
as well so my other half says!!
Benno
I have a MK2 1300 H golf, It is the second one that I have owned. I have
found that sooner or later the mechanism with the 'light' springs etc
eventually sticks in the off position and sometimes requires several
depressions of the accelerator pedal to flick the choke on. Degreasing
engine grime and cleaning of the mechanism worked for a while but it always
returned sooner or later. Last year on my latest MK2 (0wned for 8 years) I
fitted a manual choke conversion kit and on a cold morning I know it is
going to start first go without worrying if the choke is on or off and
possibly flooding the engine. As soon as I get on the main road I push it
back in when I want and I probably save petrol in the process.
"vinylnetwork" <vinyln...@cornwall-county.com> wrote in message
news:3a9bd...@news1.vip.uk.com...
steve briance
fuel by virtue of being able to push in the choke way before the pierburg
decides to (or not as the case may be).
In response to the argument that it is a far simpler design and includes
several compromises as a result, i say: don't be put off. If you can
actually tell what the short comings are I'd be surprised, and personally i
like the idea of simplicity in this area as repairs enter the realm of the
home mechanic. Any cold running problems in winter are more than likely due
to the warm air control device in the air filter assembly not working
properly. From a performance point of view the venturi sizes on the 2E2 are
22 / 26, the Weber replacement is 32/34. a very useful increase in air flow
into the engine - the name of the game when it comes to basic tuning...
Benno wrote in message ...
ben
dont manufacturers make the car with the easy changes to increase air flow
included?
ie quality filter, bigger venturis?, more open airbox etc? i'd like to know.
steve briance
which most people think is the reason for the extra power of the GTX over
the GT carb models. The power of the carb models can be increased easily to
within the realms of the GTX engine solely by increasing air flow and
exhaust flow. look at the size of the air inlet duct on an injection engine
and that on a carb engine... other reasons for not fitting tuning goodies at
the factory are : they usually cost more and standard cars are built to be
profit effective to VW at a certain price to the customer, add quality
filter and the price of the cars go up, this is also why cylinder heads have
such surprising scope for performance gas flowing. a standard head is
roughly finished inside cos it takes time (= money) to polish and flow the
ports. The air box mods people do involve drilling holes to increase air
flow, this works well, but the people who do this mod are usually happy to
put up with the extra induction noise associated. I recently drove a
totally standard scirocco and compared to my modified GTX was amazed at how
quiet it was!
finally; marketing plays a large part in deciding the power of an engine
fitted to a car. a 90bhp engine will last for a long time 150,000 miles +,
the same basic engine with 150bhp is likely to last for less time due to the
increased stresses on the bearings and other reciprocating components - a
long lasting car is a good selling point. Another reason why the carb
sciroccos only had 90bhp is so they could sell the GTX as the fast model in
the range and for proud owners not to be embarassed by the 'inferior' GT
cars. this train of thought is still present in the VAG group. Look at how
many cars have the 1.8T engine fitted, all essentially the same engine but
if you were driving an Audi S3, would you be pleased that the skoda octavia
could keep up? (no disrespect to octavia owners but in the VAG group Audi is
the premium brand)
right enough!
all interesting stuff,
steve.
ben wrote in message <8cwp6.2071$sV.3...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com>...
steve briance
and another thing..
check out the tale someone has to tell in this newsgroup thread titled
'scirocco with weber carb trub' from Alex T.(its near the top)
simonstevens01
Dave Hall
> always found that it might be okay for a couple of weeks, and then start
> acting up again, particularly if the weather was cold.
>
And that's why these aged (2E2) carbs give some people poor service -
they're complicated, involve electrical and vacuum circuits to approach the
performance of injection systems and thus defeat many mechanically-minded
people. It is rarely an adjustment that is needed; they are mostly
factory-adjusted. However, people persist in changing the settings then
economics dictates a change of carb.
The fault conditions are all diagnosable by a series of tests (which VW
agents used to be well-equipped to carry out). Now they are in the home
DIY sector, most people will find it cheaper to fork out £200 than pay an
expert to straighten out the fiddling.
At 105K miles, I'm very happy with my Jetta II's 2E2 - starting well, nice
consistent idle, good economy and it's no sluggard accelerating.
> the old carb I was averaging 15MPG (poor by anybodys standards)
Sounds as if you may have had the swollen rubber grommet problem - nothing
to do with the carb at all, and the solution cost me £3 for a new grommet
plus a gasket.
Wayne Bates
Richard Adkins wrote in message <7471c05...@adkins.demon.co.uk>...
>In message <000201c0acc9$a565f3a0$2401a8c0@simon>
> simonst...@ic24.net ("simonstevens01") wrote:
>
>> I have just had a very similar experience with my 85 1.8 carb. It also
has the same carb, pierburg 2E2. This carb is basically a load of rubbish
after a few miles. I have changed the carb for a weber unit. A straight
forward weber twin choke with a wonderful manual choke.
>>
>> The new carb has made world of difference, It took me about two hours to
fit and is relativly easy. It comes with everything you need and a good set
of detailed instructions. I cost around about £200 punds after the VAT,
however I will make that back failry soon in the reduced fuel costs, as with
the old carb I was averaging 15MPG (poor by anybodys standards)
>
>80,000 miles and recently on a 180 mile trip down the A1, I got 43MPG at a
>steady 60 ish.
>
>TTFN
>--
>Richard Adkins
>
I just had my '92 Ryder converted to a weber - and the difference it has
made is startling. No more clouds of black smoke, no more 15mpg!
I had tried to cure the problems by adjusting the existing carb, but i
always found that it might be okay for a couple of weeks, and then start
acting up again, particularly if the weather was cold.
I really would advise anyone having trouble with the carb to change it for a
weber!
Regards
Wayne
Richard Adkins
simonst...@ic24.net ("simonstevens01") wrote:
> I have just had a very similar experience with my 85 1.8 carb. It also has the same carb, pierburg 2E2. This carb is basically a load of rubbish after a few miles. I have changed the carb for a weber unit. A straight forward weber twin choke with a wonderful manual choke.
>
> The new carb has made world of difference, It took me about two hours to fit and is relativly easy. It comes with everything you need and a good set of detailed instructions. I cost around about £200 punds after the VAT, however I will make that back failry soon in the reduced fuel costs, as with the old carb I was averaging 15MPG (poor by anybodys standards)