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Honda CRV poor starting - runs fine once going
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Kalico
Dec 15, 2013, 8:00:54 AM12/15/13
to
I hope this is not posted in the 'wrong' place.
We have a 2003 Honda CRV. Great car in most respects except that it is a pain to start. It gives all the symptoms like a car with a carb would if it were flooded.
I've had it to the local garage who claimed their computer diagnostics said it was the camshaft sensor. So they replaced those and also the crankshaft sensor.
Logic told me that it could not be either of those sensors since it ran sweet as a nut once started. A friend suggested it could be an air inlet control valve, but this hasn't been replaced.
The garage called me (a bit sheepishly) and asked to return the car as they couldn't fix it. They said they were at a loss and thought it might be the ECU.
It could well be the ECU, but before I spend a fortune on one of those, or take it to the Honda dealer to have a look, then I thought I'd post here.
Symptoms are that it'll turn over, fire, then splutter and conk out. The trick to starting is to floor the pedal and then it'll go. Revs high at first then settles into usual running. Like I say, runs sweet as you could wish for, idles fine and drives well.
In fact, for a car with 110k on the clock it is superb. I'd buy a new one based on that experience. But this starting issue is a real pain and since the garage brought it back it is worse than ever.
My gut instinct is telling me it's something to do with fuel feed and the computer over-compensating then backing off and that cycle repeats. Boy do I hanker after the days when I could just dismantle a carb and clean it all out. Hey ho!
Thanks for any help or steer anyone can give me.
We have a 2003 Honda CRV. Great car in most respects except that it is a pain to start. It gives all the symptoms like a car with a carb would if it were flooded.
I've had it to the local garage who claimed their computer diagnostics said it was the camshaft sensor. So they replaced those and also the crankshaft sensor.
Logic told me that it could not be either of those sensors since it ran sweet as a nut once started. A friend suggested it could be an air inlet control valve, but this hasn't been replaced.
The garage called me (a bit sheepishly) and asked to return the car as they couldn't fix it. They said they were at a loss and thought it might be the ECU.
It could well be the ECU, but before I spend a fortune on one of those, or take it to the Honda dealer to have a look, then I thought I'd post here.
Symptoms are that it'll turn over, fire, then splutter and conk out. The trick to starting is to floor the pedal and then it'll go. Revs high at first then settles into usual running. Like I say, runs sweet as you could wish for, idles fine and drives well.
In fact, for a car with 110k on the clock it is superb. I'd buy a new one based on that experience. But this starting issue is a real pain and since the garage brought it back it is worse than ever.
My gut instinct is telling me it's something to do with fuel feed and the computer over-compensating then backing off and that cycle repeats. Boy do I hanker after the days when I could just dismantle a carb and clean it all out. Hey ho!
Thanks for any help or steer anyone can give me.
Chris Whelan
Dec 15, 2013, 8:29:59 AM12/15/13
to
On Sun, 15 Dec 2013 05:00:54 -0800, Kalico wrote:
> I hope this is not posted in the 'wrong' place.
You could possibly also try uk.rec.cars.maintenance, but I would guess
> I hope this is not posted in the 'wrong' place.
most regulars read both.
> We have a 2003 Honda CRV. Great car in most respects except that it is a
> pain to start. It gives all the symptoms like a car with a carb would if
> it were flooded.
>
> I've had it to the local garage who claimed their computer diagnostics
> said it was the camshaft sensor. So they replaced those and also the
> crankshaft sensor.
>
> Logic told me that it could not be either of those sensors since it ran
> sweet as a nut once started.
> A friend suggested it could be an air
> inlet control valve, but this hasn't been replaced.
> The garage called me (a bit sheepishly) and asked to return the car as
> they couldn't fix it. They said they were at a loss and thought it
> might be the ECU.
would be at the bottom of my list of possibilities.
> It could well be the ECU, but before I spend a fortune on one of those,
> or take it to the Honda dealer to have a look, then I thought I'd post
> here.
>
> Symptoms are that it'll turn over, fire, then splutter and conk out.
> The trick to starting is to floor the pedal and then it'll go. Revs
> high at first then settles into usual running. Like I say, runs sweet
> as you could wish for, idles fine and drives well.
> In fact, for a car with 110k on the clock it is superb. I'd buy a new
> one based on that experience. But this starting issue is a real pain
> and since the garage brought it back it is worse than ever.
>
> My gut instinct is telling me it's something to do with fuel feed and
> the computer over-compensating then backing off and that cycle repeats.
> Boy do I hanker after the days when I could just dismantle a carb and
> clean it all out. Hey ho!
>
> Thanks for any help or steer anyone can give me.
Have you tried to find an independent Honda specialist? If you give a
rough idea of location, someone here might know of one.
Chris
--
Remove prejudice to reply.
Tim..
Dec 16, 2013, 1:40:08 PM12/16/13
to
"Kalico" <d...@kalico.org> wrote in message
news:cb689dfc-d0b3-4953...@googlegroups.com...
restarted after several minutes?? Is it more pronounced when a hot restart
is attempted? Does the exhaust smell 'rich' when started??
If YES to all of these then, you have at least one leaking injector, or more
likely a puntured pressure regulator diaphragm which is letting fuel into
the manifold through the sense hose. Pull this off to check. A pressure
gauge on the schraeder valve on the rail will show what the pressure is
doing upon shut down, it should hold at just under running pressure (45psi
I think on these) for several minutes at least. If it plummets, then
obviously there is a leak and fuel's ending up in the manifold.
I would also expect you to be reporting heavy fuel consumption too, and if
we were to get more technical, long term fuel trims stored in the ECU to be
big negetive values.
If my description doesnt match your symptoms almost exactly, and your tests
reveal no fuel in the vac line and a holding residual fuel pressure, then we
need to go elsewhere.
Oh and find another garage if they cant diagnose this simple fault.
Tim..
shazzbat
Dec 17, 2013, 3:36:45 PM12/17/13
to
Symptoms are that it'll turn over, fire, then splutter and conk out. The
trick to starting is to floor the pedal and then it'll go. Revs high at
first then settles into usual running. Like I say, runs sweet as you could
wish for, idles fine and drives well.
I know a mercedes sprinter van with the same symptom. It has been like that
trick to starting is to floor the pedal and then it'll go. Revs high at
first then settles into usual running. Like I say, runs sweet as you could
wish for, idles fine and drives well.
since new, and both the fleet managers and the dealers have failed to fix
it. Let me know if you get a result, Sainsbury's would like to know.
Steve
Peter Hill
Dec 17, 2013, 5:10:02 PM12/17/13
to
thing is to check and replace the spill tubes if it's of an age that has
them. Common rail Diesels don't. Flooring the throttle on a Diesel
increases the fuel flow, so purges air from the injector quicker.
If it's petrol then it could be hot start enrichment stuck on. Older EFi
systems had a solenoid that switched the fuel pressure reg vac source to
before the throttle for hot start.
--
Peter Hill
replace nospam with domain host name to reply
Chris Whelan
Dec 18, 2013, 3:33:37 AM12/18/13
to
On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 22:10:02 +0000, Peter Hill wrote:
[...]
> There are a lot of posts in u.r.c.m for Diesels with this issue. The 1st
> thing is to check and replace the spill tubes if it's of an age that has
> them. Common rail Diesels don't. Flooring the throttle on a Diesel
> increases the fuel flow, so purges air from the injector quicker.
I'd assumed petrol; do diesels have an idle air control valve?
> If it's petrol then it could be hot start enrichment stuck on. Older EFi
> systems had a solenoid that switched the fuel pressure reg vac source to
> before the throttle for hot start.
Don't *think* the '03 CRV has that?
[...]
> There are a lot of posts in u.r.c.m for Diesels with this issue. The 1st
> thing is to check and replace the spill tubes if it's of an age that has
> them. Common rail Diesels don't. Flooring the throttle on a Diesel
> increases the fuel flow, so purges air from the injector quicker.
> If it's petrol then it could be hot start enrichment stuck on. Older EFi
> systems had a solenoid that switched the fuel pressure reg vac source to
> before the throttle for hot start.
Peter Hill
Dec 18, 2013, 4:16:21 AM12/18/13
to
On 18/12/2013 08:33, Chris Whelan wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 22:10:02 +0000, Peter Hill wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> There are a lot of posts in u.r.c.m for Diesels with this issue. The 1st
>> thing is to check and replace the spill tubes if it's of an age that has
>> them. Common rail Diesels don't. Flooring the throttle on a Diesel
>> increases the fuel flow, so purges air from the injector quicker.
>
> I'd assumed petrol; do diesels have an idle air control valve?
No. They run wide open. An idle control valve only applies to a petrol.
> On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 22:10:02 +0000, Peter Hill wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> There are a lot of posts in u.r.c.m for Diesels with this issue. The 1st
>> thing is to check and replace the spill tubes if it's of an age that has
>> them. Common rail Diesels don't. Flooring the throttle on a Diesel
>> increases the fuel flow, so purges air from the injector quicker.
>
> I'd assumed petrol; do diesels have an idle air control valve?
So it is petrol.
Mate has a Diesel one, can't find a workshop manual. Seems it was
European market only.
Chris Whelan
Dec 18, 2013, 4:36:40 AM12/18/13
to
On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 09:16:21 +0000, Peter Hill wrote:
> On 18/12/2013 08:33, Chris Whelan wrote:
>> On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 22:10:02 +0000, Peter Hill wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>> There are a lot of posts in u.r.c.m for Diesels with this issue. The
>>> 1st thing is to check and replace the spill tubes if it's of an age
>>> that has them. Common rail Diesels don't. Flooring the throttle on a
>>> Diesel increases the fuel flow, so purges air from the injector
>>> quicker.
>>
>> I'd assumed petrol; do diesels have an idle air control valve?
>
> No. They run wide open. An idle control valve only applies to a petrol.
>
> So it is petrol.
Yep. OP's car is '03; no diesel until '05:
> On 18/12/2013 08:33, Chris Whelan wrote:
>> On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 22:10:02 +0000, Peter Hill wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>> There are a lot of posts in u.r.c.m for Diesels with this issue. The
>>> 1st thing is to check and replace the spill tubes if it's of an age
>>> that has them. Common rail Diesels don't. Flooring the throttle on a
>>> Diesel increases the fuel flow, so purges air from the injector
>>> quicker.
>>
>> I'd assumed petrol; do diesels have an idle air control valve?
>
> No. They run wide open. An idle control valve only applies to a petrol.
>
> So it is petrol.
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/honda/cr-v-2002/
Tim..
Dec 21, 2013, 12:04:42 PM12/21/13
to
"Peter Hill" <peter....@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ZY3su.20375$sf7....@fx04.fr7...
> On 17/12/2013 20:36, shazzbat wrote:
>> Symptoms are that it'll turn over, fire, then splutter and conk out. The
>> trick to starting is to floor the pedal and then it'll go. Revs high at
>> first then settles into usual running. Like I say, runs sweet as you
>> could
>> wish for, idles fine and drives well.
>>
>> I know a mercedes sprinter van with the same symptom. It has been like
>> that
>> since new, and both the fleet managers and the dealers have failed to fix
>> it. Let me know if you get a result, Sainsbury's would like to know.
>>
>> Steve
>
> There are a lot of posts in u.r.c.m for Diesels with this issue. The 1st
> thing is to check and replace the spill tubes if it's of an age that has
> them. Common rail Diesels don't. Flooring the throttle on a Diesel
> increases the fuel flow, so purges air from the injector quicker.
>
This is a 2.0 l petrol engine!
>> Symptoms are that it'll turn over, fire, then splutter and conk out. The
>> trick to starting is to floor the pedal and then it'll go. Revs high at
>> first then settles into usual running. Like I say, runs sweet as you
>> could
>> wish for, idles fine and drives well.
>>
>> I know a mercedes sprinter van with the same symptom. It has been like
>> that
>> since new, and both the fleet managers and the dealers have failed to fix
>> it. Let me know if you get a result, Sainsbury's would like to know.
>>
>> Steve
>
> There are a lot of posts in u.r.c.m for Diesels with this issue. The 1st
> thing is to check and replace the spill tubes if it's of an age that has
> them. Common rail Diesels don't. Flooring the throttle on a Diesel
> increases the fuel flow, so purges air from the injector quicker.
>
tim.
Peter Hill
Dec 21, 2013, 2:43:52 PM12/21/13
to
I'd missed the giveaway of it having an air inlet control valve.
Tim..
Dec 22, 2013, 9:07:37 AM12/22/13
to
news:Ubmtu.11$5A...@fx24.fr7...
An 03 CRV isnt going to be anything other than a K20A petrol engine in the
UK as the 2.2 diesel wasnt introduced til 2005.
Many recent diesels have two forms of 'air inlet control' ; swirl control
and throttling, doser or anti shudder valve.
Tim..
UK as the 2.2 diesel wasnt introduced til 2005.
Many recent diesels have two forms of 'air inlet control' ; swirl control
and throttling, doser or anti shudder valve.
Tim..
Kalico
Dec 27, 2013, 4:29:30 PM12/27/13
to
Thanks a million for all those suggestions and apologies that I've not been able to reply sooner.
I'll insert some comments in yours.
On Sunday, 15 December 2013 13:29:59 UTC, Chris Whelan wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Dec 2013 05:00:54 -0800, Kalico wrote:
>
>
>
> > I hope this is not posted in the 'wrong' place.
>
>
>
> You could possibly also try uk.rec.cars.maintenance, but I would guess
>
> most regulars read both.
>
>
>
> > We have a 2003 Honda CRV. Great car in most respects except that it is a
>
> > pain to start. It gives all the symptoms like a car with a carb would if
>
> > it were flooded.
>
> >
>
> > I've had it to the local garage who claimed their computer diagnostics
>
> > said it was the camshaft sensor. So they replaced those and also the
>
> > crankshaft sensor.
>
> >
>
> > Logic told me that it could not be either of those sensors since it ran
>
> > sweet as a nut once started.
>
>
>
> Many cars only need the cam sensor for starting.
I didn't know that. Thank you.
>
> > A friend suggested it could be an air
>
> > inlet control valve, but this hasn't been replaced.
>
>
>
> If so, it would start OK with just a touch of throttle. Is that the case?
No. It really is like starting a flooded carb.
>
> > The garage called me (a bit sheepishly) and asked to return the car as
>
> > they couldn't fix it. They said they were at a loss and thought it
>
> > might be the ECU.
>
>
>
> That's the standard response of a garage that has run out of ideas. It
>
> would be at the bottom of my list of possibilities.
Thanks for the steer.
>
> > It could well be the ECU, but before I spend a fortune on one of those,
>
> > or take it to the Honda dealer to have a look, then I thought I'd post
>
> > here.
>
> >
>
> > Symptoms are that it'll turn over, fire, then splutter and conk out.
>
> > The trick to starting is to floor the pedal and then it'll go. Revs
>
> > high at first then settles into usual running. Like I say, runs sweet
>
> > as you could wish for, idles fine and drives well.
>
>
>
> That might suggest the idle air control valve then.
>
>
>
> > In fact, for a car with 110k on the clock it is superb. I'd buy a new
>
> > one based on that experience. But this starting issue is a real pain
>
> > and since the garage brought it back it is worse than ever.
>
> >
>
> > My gut instinct is telling me it's something to do with fuel feed and
>
> > the computer over-compensating then backing off and that cycle repeats.
>
> > Boy do I hanker after the days when I could just dismantle a carb and
>
> > clean it all out. Hey ho!
>
> >
>
> > Thanks for any help or steer anyone can give me.
>
>
>
> Does it do it hot or cold, or both? Is it less of a problem when warm?
Both. I think it's sometimes worse when warm.
>
> Have you tried to find an independent Honda specialist? If you give a
>
> rough idea of location, someone here might know of one.
No. I'll have to find one. I'm in Derby.
>
> Chris
>
>
Thanks again Chris. Much appreciated.
I'll insert some comments in yours.
On Sunday, 15 December 2013 13:29:59 UTC, Chris Whelan wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Dec 2013 05:00:54 -0800, Kalico wrote:
>
>
>
> > I hope this is not posted in the 'wrong' place.
>
>
>
> You could possibly also try uk.rec.cars.maintenance, but I would guess
>
> most regulars read both.
>
>
>
> > We have a 2003 Honda CRV. Great car in most respects except that it is a
>
> > pain to start. It gives all the symptoms like a car with a carb would if
>
> > it were flooded.
>
> >
>
> > I've had it to the local garage who claimed their computer diagnostics
>
> > said it was the camshaft sensor. So they replaced those and also the
>
> > crankshaft sensor.
>
> >
>
> > Logic told me that it could not be either of those sensors since it ran
>
> > sweet as a nut once started.
>
>
>
> Many cars only need the cam sensor for starting.
>
> > A friend suggested it could be an air
>
> > inlet control valve, but this hasn't been replaced.
>
>
>
> If so, it would start OK with just a touch of throttle. Is that the case?
>
> > The garage called me (a bit sheepishly) and asked to return the car as
>
> > they couldn't fix it. They said they were at a loss and thought it
>
> > might be the ECU.
>
>
>
> That's the standard response of a garage that has run out of ideas. It
>
> would be at the bottom of my list of possibilities.
>
> > It could well be the ECU, but before I spend a fortune on one of those,
>
> > or take it to the Honda dealer to have a look, then I thought I'd post
>
> > here.
>
> >
>
> > Symptoms are that it'll turn over, fire, then splutter and conk out.
>
> > The trick to starting is to floor the pedal and then it'll go. Revs
>
> > high at first then settles into usual running. Like I say, runs sweet
>
> > as you could wish for, idles fine and drives well.
>
>
>
> That might suggest the idle air control valve then.
>
>
>
> > In fact, for a car with 110k on the clock it is superb. I'd buy a new
>
> > one based on that experience. But this starting issue is a real pain
>
> > and since the garage brought it back it is worse than ever.
>
> >
>
> > My gut instinct is telling me it's something to do with fuel feed and
>
> > the computer over-compensating then backing off and that cycle repeats.
>
> > Boy do I hanker after the days when I could just dismantle a carb and
>
> > clean it all out. Hey ho!
>
> >
>
> > Thanks for any help or steer anyone can give me.
>
>
>
> Does it do it hot or cold, or both? Is it less of a problem when warm?
>
> Have you tried to find an independent Honda specialist? If you give a
>
> rough idea of location, someone here might know of one.
>
> Chris
>
>
Thanks again Chris. Much appreciated.
Kalico
Dec 27, 2013, 4:39:58 PM12/27/13
to
On Monday, 16 December 2013 18:40:08 UTC, Tim.. wrote:
> "Kalico" wrote in message
>
> news:cb689dfc-d0b3-4953-a7ba-627774ecd88f
Tim, this is great. Thanks.
Yes, this happens every time.
Yes, it is worse when it is warm.
Yes, there is a smell of petrol if it doesn't fire straight away. And a whiff of it even when it does.
The fuel consumption isn't great, but I just put that down to it being a big boxy car.
I love the fact that you think it is a simple fault. Sounds much cheaper to fix. Thank you.
The big hose from the air filter did seem to be a bit wet inside. Would that be an indicator?
I can't thank you enough. At last I feel I'm getting somewhere!
> "Kalico" wrote in message
>
> news:cb689dfc-d0b3-4953-a7ba-627774ecd88f
Yes, this happens every time.
Yes, it is worse when it is warm.
Yes, there is a smell of petrol if it doesn't fire straight away. And a whiff of it even when it does.
The fuel consumption isn't great, but I just put that down to it being a big boxy car.
I love the fact that you think it is a simple fault. Sounds much cheaper to fix. Thank you.
The big hose from the air filter did seem to be a bit wet inside. Would that be an indicator?
I can't thank you enough. At last I feel I'm getting somewhere!
Tim..
Jan 4, 2014, 5:57:02 AM1/4/14
to
news:79579d81-e833-4528...@googlegroups.com...
The CRV should manage 28-30mpg in mixed use, I had one!
Find a trusted understanding garage who will check for falling residual fuel
pressure, then identify the cause - FPR diaphragm split or weeping injector,
but I'd put money on it being the former.
Tim..
Find a trusted understanding garage who will check for falling residual fuel
pressure, then identify the cause - FPR diaphragm split or weeping injector,
but I'd put money on it being the former.
Tim..
coxi...@gmail.com
Nov 19, 2015, 8:15:08 AM11/19/15
to
I have a 2004 model cry and it is doing exactly the same thing every thing down to a t took mine to a local garage and said it could be cam shaft sensor but coul not garantee still waiting for its return he must have googled this because he has told me everything that is on here
Kalico
Sep 12, 2017, 5:01:14 AM9/12/17
to
On Thursday, 19 November 2015 13:15:08 UTC, coxi...@gmail.com wrote:
> I have a 2004 model cry and it is doing exactly the same thing every thing down to a t took mine to a local garage and said it could be cam shaft sensor but coul not garantee still waiting for its return he must have googled this because he has told me everything that is on here
Did you ever get a resolution to it?
> I have a 2004 model cry and it is doing exactly the same thing every thing down to a t took mine to a local garage and said it could be cam shaft sensor but coul not garantee still waiting for its return he must have googled this because he has told me everything that is on here
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