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Stubborn crankshaft pulley bolt - any tips?
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mathewja...@googlemail.com
May 11, 2013, 2:05:23 PM5/11/13
to
I'm changing the cambelt on my wife's 2002 1.25L Fiesta, or at least trying to as I haven't even got to the fun bit yet...
The crankshaft pulley bolt is proving to be a right pain. I just can't shift it. I've got one of those 12v impact wrenches which, up until now, has been surprisingly effective at loosening the most stubborn nuts/bolts on both our cars which are both 10+ years old so plenty of time and opportunity for parts to weld themselves together.
I just seem to be getting nowhere with this so wondered if anyone can offer any advice? I'm bracing the crankshaft pulley with a wedged-in sprocket holding tool (Laser 2869) and so I'm confident I'm getting maximum impact through by not allowing the pulley to turn. Out of sheer frustration I even tried the breaker-bar-and-brief-crank-with-the-starter trick but that didn't work either. I only tried twice as I wasn't comfortable with that method.
Do you think a flywheel locking tool (Laser 4275?) might give a bit more stability with locking the engine than my sprocket tool can so I can then go at it again with the impact wrench or ever-increasing lengths of breaker bar + extensions?
I am reluctant to throw the towel in and take it to a garage, not least given all the necessary bits are off the engine now (why didn't I try the bolt first as now I've got the 'rebuild of shame'!), but also because I've bought the necessary timing tools (Laser 4347) and have spent a fair bit of time reading up and understanding the theory that to give all that up now would be a real let down.
I'm hoping a beer and a call for some advice might be all that's required so if you can oblige it'd be greatly appreciated...
Mathew
The crankshaft pulley bolt is proving to be a right pain. I just can't shift it. I've got one of those 12v impact wrenches which, up until now, has been surprisingly effective at loosening the most stubborn nuts/bolts on both our cars which are both 10+ years old so plenty of time and opportunity for parts to weld themselves together.
I just seem to be getting nowhere with this so wondered if anyone can offer any advice? I'm bracing the crankshaft pulley with a wedged-in sprocket holding tool (Laser 2869) and so I'm confident I'm getting maximum impact through by not allowing the pulley to turn. Out of sheer frustration I even tried the breaker-bar-and-brief-crank-with-the-starter trick but that didn't work either. I only tried twice as I wasn't comfortable with that method.
Do you think a flywheel locking tool (Laser 4275?) might give a bit more stability with locking the engine than my sprocket tool can so I can then go at it again with the impact wrench or ever-increasing lengths of breaker bar + extensions?
I am reluctant to throw the towel in and take it to a garage, not least given all the necessary bits are off the engine now (why didn't I try the bolt first as now I've got the 'rebuild of shame'!), but also because I've bought the necessary timing tools (Laser 4347) and have spent a fair bit of time reading up and understanding the theory that to give all that up now would be a real let down.
I'm hoping a beer and a call for some advice might be all that's required so if you can oblige it'd be greatly appreciated...
Mathew
Duncan Wood
May 11, 2013, 2:19:25 PM5/11/13
to
On Sat, 11 May 2013 19:05:23 +0100, <mathewja...@googlemail.com>
wrote:
They're a bastard, heating them up helps if you've got a welder. If the
12V impact wrench manages it I'd be surprised, Breaker bar against a wood
block with a coupe of inches throws got more chance, but then when it is
loose there's nothing to stop it slipping.
wrote:
12V impact wrench manages it I'd be surprised, Breaker bar against a wood
block with a coupe of inches throws got more chance, but then when it is
loose there's nothing to stop it slipping.
mathewja...@googlemail.com
May 11, 2013, 2:23:18 PM5/11/13
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On Saturday, 11 May 2013 19:05:23 UTC+1, mathewja...@googlemail.com wrote:
> I'm changing the cambelt on my wife's 2002 1.25L Fiesta, or at least trying
> to as I haven't even got to the fun bit yet...
Something I should've possibly added - whilst my impact wrench supposedly gives up to 350Nm torque it's just dawned on me that I've mainly been using a 4" extension bar (supposedly an impact one) with it given that even with the engine lowered to the extremity of the other mounts the bodywork prevents the tool sitting well on the bolt without it. Perhaps though the bar could be reducing the torque through it twisting and I should endeavour to do without?
> I'm changing the cambelt on my wife's 2002 1.25L Fiesta, or at least trying
> to as I haven't even got to the fun bit yet...
Duncan Wood
May 11, 2013, 2:27:42 PM5/11/13
to
mathewja...@googlemail.com
May 11, 2013, 2:42:06 PM5/11/13
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On Saturday, 11 May 2013 19:19:25 UTC+1, Duncan Wood wrote:
> Breaker bar against a wood
> block with a coupe of inches throws got more chance, but then when it is
> loose there's nothing to stop it slipping.
Are you talking about the 'starter' method?
> Breaker bar against a wood
> block with a coupe of inches throws got more chance, but then when it is
> loose there's nothing to stop it slipping.
Duncan Wood
May 11, 2013, 2:43:27 PM5/11/13
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On Sat, 11 May 2013 19:42:06 +0100, <mathewja...@googlemail.com>
wrote:
Yes, if you let the bar swing it hit's a lot harder.
wrote:
Mrcheerful
May 11, 2013, 4:32:38 PM5/11/13
to
at least.
Lock the flywheel (in the right position) using either a real flywheel
locking tool or a prybar in the teeth of the flywheel and undo the nut with
a long breaker bar.
mathewja...@googlemail.com
May 11, 2013, 4:58:29 PM5/11/13
to
On Saturday, 11 May 2013 21:32:38 UTC+1, Mrcheerful wrote:
> DO NOT spin it on the starter to try to undo it, you will wreck the valves
> at least.
It was frustration setting in I think. I knew once I'd done it I should walk away to think things through! Indeed, I've just read a forum thread documenting someone using the timing pin to turn against and it bending inside the engine block so I'm going to stick by the book I think! They still didn't manage to get the bolt undone so ended up grinding it off. Amazingly it all ended well.
> DO NOT spin it on the starter to try to undo it, you will wreck the valves
> at least.
> Lock the flywheel (in the right position) using either a real flywheel
> locking tool or a prybar in the teeth of the flywheel and undo the nut with
> a long breaker bar.
How dodgy is the use of a prybar? Of course you can't say for this particular circumstance but is it something approaching 'accepted common practice'?
Mrcheerful
May 11, 2013, 6:17:47 PM5/11/13
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Peter Hill
May 12, 2013, 5:33:40 AM5/12/13
to
of thick wall steel pipe over it. My "extension" is a tube from the
frame of an old car port.
Though I have sheared 3/8 drive extension bars and put a permanent twist
in a short 1/2" extension.
--
Peter Hill
replace nospam with domain host name to reply
Dis Manibus
May 12, 2013, 5:47:16 AM5/12/13
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"Peter Hill" <peter....@skyshack.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:TlJjt.33025$jP.2...@fx12.fr7...
years ago. It's still one of the most useful things I have.
Dave Plowman (News)
May 12, 2013, 6:00:43 AM5/12/13
to
In article <op.wwxmi...@duncan-tosh.lan>,
pulley bolt no problem, and that's pretty tight. Think it says up to 250
ft.lb.
--
*When a clock is hungry it goes back four seconds*
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Duncan Wood <nnt...@dmx512.co.uk> wrote:
> They're a bastard, heating them up helps if you've got a welder. If the
> 12V impact wrench manages it I'd be surprised,
I have a Maplin one which runs off the car battery. Did the SD1 crank
> They're a bastard, heating them up helps if you've got a welder. If the
> 12V impact wrench manages it I'd be surprised,
pulley bolt no problem, and that's pretty tight. Think it says up to 250
ft.lb.
--
*When a clock is hungry it goes back four seconds*
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Dave Plowman (News)
May 12, 2013, 6:01:56 AM5/12/13
to
In article <1a1dd0c5-6dee-451e...@googlegroups.com>,
Yup. Any extension dramatically reduces the impact.
--
*Frankly, scallop, I don't give a clam
--
*Frankly, scallop, I don't give a clam
Duncan Wood
May 12, 2013, 6:25:34 AM5/12/13
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On Sun, 12 May 2013 11:00:43 +0100, Dave Plowman (News)
<da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <op.wwxmi...@duncan-tosh.lan>,
> Duncan Wood <nnt...@dmx512.co.uk> wrote:
>> They're a bastard, heating them up helps if you've got a welder. If the
>> 12V impact wrench manages it I'd be surprised,
>
> I have a Maplin one which runs off the car battery. Did the SD1 crank
> pulley bolt no problem, and that's pretty tight. Think it says up to 250
> ft.lb.
>
The Fiesta one's an unkeyed pulley so it's angle tightened.
<da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <op.wwxmi...@duncan-tosh.lan>,
> Duncan Wood <nnt...@dmx512.co.uk> wrote:
>> They're a bastard, heating them up helps if you've got a welder. If the
>> 12V impact wrench manages it I'd be surprised,
>
> I have a Maplin one which runs off the car battery. Did the SD1 crank
> pulley bolt no problem, and that's pretty tight. Think it says up to 250
> ft.lb.
>
mathewja...@googlemail.com
May 12, 2013, 7:47:00 AM5/12/13
to
On Sunday, 12 May 2013 10:33:40 UTC+1, Peter Hill wrote:
> And when you fail to move it with the 24" breaker bar. Put a 1.8m length
> of thick wall steel pipe over it. My "extension" is a tube from the
> frame of an old car port.
I've got a 5' scaffold extension to slip over my 24" breaker and have ordered a flywheel locking tool (Laser 3575) so when that arrives I'll give it a go.
> And when you fail to move it with the 24" breaker bar. Put a 1.8m length
> of thick wall steel pipe over it. My "extension" is a tube from the
> frame of an old car port.
I tried putting it in gear and getting my wife to stomp on the brakes but there still seems to be too much 'slack' in the drivetrain to counter my turning - certainly for short sharp shocks which I figure is what's required. I'm hoping the flywheel tool will lock things solid?
Here's the bugger:
http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/FiestaCrankshaftPulleyBolt1.jpg
...and the new bolt (choice of two depending on length of the existing one):
http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/FiestaCrankshaftPulleyBolt2.jpg
I'm wondering if, if all else fails, I could/should cut the 'washer' off the existing bolt with a Dremel cutting disc so as to reduce the grip it has on the pulley? That or perhaps some other destructive strategy?
Does the panel think that if the bolt head shears off then I'll still be able to pull the shank out due to it no longer being loaded?
This isn't going to beat me. If I have too I'll take the bl00dy engine out.
mathewja...@googlemail.com
May 12, 2013, 7:52:45 AM5/12/13
to
On Sunday, 12 May 2013 11:00:43 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> I have a Maplin one which runs off the car battery. Did the SD1 crank
> pulley bolt no problem, and that's pretty tight. Think it says up to 250
> ft.lb.
This one is (don't laugh - it's been great until now!) an RAC branded one from Tesco:
> I have a Maplin one which runs off the car battery. Did the SD1 crank
> pulley bolt no problem, and that's pretty tight. Think it says up to 250
> ft.lb.
http://www.tesco.com/direct/rac-12v-impact-wrench/207-4508.prd
It claims 'up to 350Nm'.
Thinking optimistically for when the bolt finally does come out, do you think the impact wrench might suffice to tighten the new one up? It requires (off the top of my head) 40Nm + 90° so I'm assuming that having used a torque wrench for stage 1 I can attempt the 90° extra twist with the uncontrolled impact wrench having marked the bolt (and locking the flywheel - I don't trust the locking pin I've got).
Duncan Wood
May 12, 2013, 8:02:06 AM5/12/13
to
On Sun, 12 May 2013 12:47:00 +0100, <mathewja...@googlemail.com>
wrote:
If it's that subborn then drill down the centre of it.
wrote:
Mrcheerful
May 12, 2013, 8:09:19 AM5/12/13
to
A breaker bar is the way to do it up the right amount and use a new bolt.
mathewja...@googlemail.com
May 12, 2013, 8:21:07 AM5/12/13
to
On Sunday, 12 May 2013 13:02:06 UTC+1, Duncan Wood wrote:
> If it's that subborn then drill down the centre of it.
Is there not the danger that I might knacker the thread of the crank?
> If it's that subborn then drill down the centre of it.
I've never drilled a bolt out before so it'd be uncharted territory for me. My drill bits seem to be made of cheese too so would need to pick up one. I've cut plenty of nuts/bolts off though hence me leaning towards that method given I've got some confidence in that regard. If I somehow go too far at least I'll only bite into the pulley which can be replaced easily enough.
Dave Plowman (News)
May 12, 2013, 8:30:45 AM5/12/13
to
In article <op.wwyu8...@duncan-tosh.lan>,
car tighter than 250 lb.ft
--
*I'm really easy to get along with once people learn to worship me
Duncan Wood <nnt...@dmx512.co.uk> wrote:
> On Sun, 12 May 2013 11:00:43 +0100, Dave Plowman (News)
> <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
> > In article <op.wwxmi...@duncan-tosh.lan>, Duncan Wood
> > <nnt...@dmx512.co.uk> wrote:
> >> They're a bastard, heating them up helps if you've got a welder. If
> >> the 12V impact wrench manages it I'd be surprised,
> >
> > I have a Maplin one which runs off the car battery. Did the SD1 crank
> > pulley bolt no problem, and that's pretty tight. Think it says up to
> > 250 ft.lb.
> >
> The Fiesta one's an unkeyed pulley so it's angle tightened.
Does that make a difference when undoing? You don't get many things on a
> On Sun, 12 May 2013 11:00:43 +0100, Dave Plowman (News)
> <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
> > In article <op.wwxmi...@duncan-tosh.lan>, Duncan Wood
> > <nnt...@dmx512.co.uk> wrote:
> >> They're a bastard, heating them up helps if you've got a welder. If
> >> the 12V impact wrench manages it I'd be surprised,
> >
> > I have a Maplin one which runs off the car battery. Did the SD1 crank
> > pulley bolt no problem, and that's pretty tight. Think it says up to
> > 250 ft.lb.
> >
> The Fiesta one's an unkeyed pulley so it's angle tightened.
car tighter than 250 lb.ft
--
*I'm really easy to get along with once people learn to worship me
Duncan Wood
May 12, 2013, 8:49:38 AM5/12/13
to
On Sun, 12 May 2013 13:30:45 +0100, Dave Plowman (News)
the other.
<da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <op.wwyu8...@duncan-tosh.lan>,
> Duncan Wood <nnt...@dmx512.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Sun, 12 May 2013 11:00:43 +0100, Dave Plowman (News)
>> <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> > In article <op.wwxmi...@duncan-tosh.lan>, Duncan Wood
>> > <nnt...@dmx512.co.uk> wrote:
>> >> They're a bastard, heating them up helps if you've got a welder. If
>> >> the 12V impact wrench manages it I'd be surprised,
>> >
>> > I have a Maplin one which runs off the car battery. Did the SD1 crank
>> > pulley bolt no problem, and that's pretty tight. Think it says up to
>> > 250 ft.lb.
>> >
>
>> The Fiesta one's an unkeyed pulley so it's angle tightened.
>
> Does that make a difference when undoing? You don't get many things on a
> car tighter than 250 lb.ft
>
Unkeyed crank bolts spring to mind. Angle tightened drive shaft nuts are
> In article <op.wwyu8...@duncan-tosh.lan>,
> Duncan Wood <nnt...@dmx512.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Sun, 12 May 2013 11:00:43 +0100, Dave Plowman (News)
>> <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> > In article <op.wwxmi...@duncan-tosh.lan>, Duncan Wood
>> > <nnt...@dmx512.co.uk> wrote:
>> >> They're a bastard, heating them up helps if you've got a welder. If
>> >> the 12V impact wrench manages it I'd be surprised,
>> >
>> > I have a Maplin one which runs off the car battery. Did the SD1 crank
>> > pulley bolt no problem, and that's pretty tight. Think it says up to
>> > 250 ft.lb.
>> >
>
>> The Fiesta one's an unkeyed pulley so it's angle tightened.
>
> Does that make a difference when undoing? You don't get many things on a
> car tighter than 250 lb.ft
>
the other.
Duncan Wood
May 12, 2013, 8:51:30 AM5/12/13
to
On Sun, 12 May 2013 13:21:07 +0100, <mathewja...@googlemail.com>
wrote:
Well I wouldn't suggest drilling it out to 8.5mm, but if you're carefull
you should get a 6mm bit down the centre.
wrote:
you should get a 6mm bit down the centre.
Tim..
May 12, 2013, 9:28:02 AM5/12/13
to
"Mrcheerful" <g.odon...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MCzjt.24603$jP.2...@fx12.fr7...
Many Fords, Pugs, & Rens to merely touch the surface have NO keyway on the
crank pulley (and cams for that matter) and are freely floating when the
bolt is slackened.
Jamming a t-bar and flicking the starter WILL cause piston / valve contact
since you are turning the engine over, rather than the bolt.
Tim.
Chris Whelan
May 12, 2013, 9:30:10 AM5/12/13
to
On Sun, 12 May 2013 14:28:02 +0100, Tim.. wrote:
[...]
>> It is the way I have undone many, many engines without any ill effects.
>
>
> DO NOT do it any more!!!!
>
> Many Fords, Pugs, & Rens to merely touch the surface have NO keyway on
> the crank pulley (and cams for that matter) and are freely floating when
> the bolt is slackened.
>
> Jamming a t-bar and flicking the starter WILL cause piston / valve
> contact since you are turning the engine over, rather than the bolt.
>
> Tim.
I understood Mr C to mean that he uses a pry-bar to jam the flywheel
rather than a holding tool. I don't believe he was advocating using the
starter motor to undo the bolt.
Chris
--
Remove prejudice to reply.
[...]
>> It is the way I have undone many, many engines without any ill effects.
>
>
> DO NOT do it any more!!!!
>
> Many Fords, Pugs, & Rens to merely touch the surface have NO keyway on
> the crank pulley (and cams for that matter) and are freely floating when
> the bolt is slackened.
>
> Jamming a t-bar and flicking the starter WILL cause piston / valve
> contact since you are turning the engine over, rather than the bolt.
>
> Tim.
rather than a holding tool. I don't believe he was advocating using the
starter motor to undo the bolt.
Chris
--
Remove prejudice to reply.
mathewja...@googlemail.com
May 12, 2013, 10:00:34 AM5/12/13
to
On Sunday, 12 May 2013 14:28:02 UTC+1, Tim.. wrote:
>> It is the way I have undone many, many engines without any ill effects.
>
> DO NOT do it any more!!!!
I think he meant locking the flywheel.
>> It is the way I have undone many, many engines without any ill effects.
>
> DO NOT do it any more!!!!
> Many Fords, Pugs, & Rens to merely touch the surface have NO keyway on the
> crank pulley (and cams for that matter) and are freely floating when the
> bolt is slackened.
steve robinson
May 12, 2013, 11:25:06 AM5/12/13
to
Mrcheerful
May 12, 2013, 12:04:06 PM5/12/13
to
prybar and undo the bolt with a breaker bar (or a larger impact wrench)
Mrcheerful
May 12, 2013, 12:08:42 PM5/12/13
to
I thought I was clear enough. Lock flywheel using a locking tool or a
prybar and undo the bolt with a breaker bar (or a larger impact wrench)
Do not spin the engine to undo the bolt on this engine (I am not a fan of
prybar and undo the bolt with a breaker bar (or a larger impact wrench)
that method having seen injuries and breakages when it goes wrong)
mathewja...@googlemail.com
May 12, 2013, 12:24:16 PM5/12/13
to
On Sunday, 12 May 2013 17:04:06 UTC+1, Mrcheerful wrote:
> I thought I was clear enough.
You were, thanks.
> I thought I was clear enough.
> Lock flywheel using a locking tool or a
> prybar and undo the bolt with a breaker bar (or a larger impact wrench)
Mrcheerful
May 12, 2013, 12:38:41 PM5/12/13
to
Having the right tool for the job will usually make it easier, and having
the time to get it, helps too.
I have sometimes had to buy a special tool for a one off job and re-sold it
on ebay after use.
RJH
May 12, 2013, 12:54:41 PM5/12/13
to
On 12/05/2013 12:52, mathewja...@googlemail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, 12 May 2013 11:00:43 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>
>> I have a Maplin one which runs off the car battery. Did the SD1 crank
>> pulley bolt no problem, and that's pretty tight. Think it says up to 250
>> ft.lb.
>
> This one is (don't laugh - it's been great until now!) an RAC branded one from Tesco:
>
> http://www.tesco.com/direct/rac-12v-impact-wrench/207-4508.prd
>
> It claims 'up to 350Nm'.
>
That has to be one of the most unlikely looking tools I've seen in a
> On Sunday, 12 May 2013 11:00:43 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>
>> I have a Maplin one which runs off the car battery. Did the SD1 crank
>> pulley bolt no problem, and that's pretty tight. Think it says up to 250
>> ft.lb.
>
> This one is (don't laugh - it's been great until now!) an RAC branded one from Tesco:
>
> http://www.tesco.com/direct/rac-12v-impact-wrench/207-4508.prd
>
> It claims 'up to 350Nm'.
>
while. Judging from the reviews and your experience, seems to do at
least part of the job.
Rob
mathewja...@googlemail.com
May 12, 2013, 1:17:15 PM5/12/13
to
On Sunday, 12 May 2013 17:54:41 UTC+1, RJH wrote:
> That has to be one of the most unlikely looking tools I've seen in a
> while. Judging from the reviews and your experience, seems to do at
> least part of the job.
I couldn't agree more! I'm not normally one for scrimping on tools but when it comes to those that I'm expecting to use only once in a blue moon I'll certainly give the low cost option a try if I can't justify/afford a more expensive option[1].
> That has to be one of the most unlikely looking tools I've seen in a
> while. Judging from the reviews and your experience, seems to do at
> least part of the job.
I can't remember what I bought this one for - seized bolts on a knuckle/strut I think which I just couldn't shift with my usual breaker bar. I could not believe it when this thing hammered the thing off with barely a grumble.
I've used it for a whole bunch of stuck nuts/bolts since, indeed it seems preferable to use this from the outset if in doubt so as not to unnecessarily stress any components by hanging off my breaker-with-scaffold-extension bar and other knuckle-scuffing techniques.
One notable drawback is its bulk though and whilst it can be slow (one strike every couple of seconds or so) that aspect doesn't bother me - if it frees the fastener without stress I'm happy to wait.
I've obviously now found its limit though... I was expecting it to free the crankshaft bolt off no problem thinking its nature of operation would be ideal so I'm a little disappointed on that front...
Mathew
[1] It's funny though, I can list several cheap tools that I've bought for supposed one-offs - this impact wrench, angle grinder, SDS drill - yet for some reason they've all turned into my often-used tools!
Mathew Newton
May 15, 2013, 5:13:58 PM5/15/13
to
On Saturday, 11 May 2013 19:05:23 UTC+1, mathewja...@googlemail.com wrote:
> I'm changing the cambelt on my wife's 2002 1.25L Fiesta, or at least trying
> to as I haven't even got to the fun bit yet...
>
> The crankshaft pulley bolt is proving to be a right pain. I just can't shift it.
> I'm changing the cambelt on my wife's 2002 1.25L Fiesta, or at least trying
> to as I haven't even got to the fun bit yet...
>
Update:
It's off! :-)
The flywheel locking tool arrived today so I went to fit it and, unsurprisingly of course given I was depending on it, it didn't. The bracket married up with the starter bolt hole fine but the locking protusion didn't quite reach the flywheel... I must say that the flywheel is very deep inside the bell housing and so it was proving difficult to work out how to jam something else in there without risking it slipping (and taking a tooth off knowing my luck).
So I went to Plan B and got the Dremel out. I figured that if I cut into the 'washer' of the bolt then it might lossen it's grip, particularly if I could get all the way through without touching the pulley.
Two Chinese 'dremel style' cutoff discs later and I was nearly through so I gave the 12v impact wrench another go in case the clamping force had already been reduced. 50-odd impacts later and I swore I saw it turn ever so slightly. A bit more persistance and it finally gave in - and I could just spin it out with my fingers so there was no corrosion or anything holding it in place.
http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/FiestaCrankshaftPulleyBolt3.jpg
I've fitted a new water pump and tensioner and will do the belt and timing tomorrow. Given I don't have the means to lock the flywheel I shall be relying on what is touted as a locking pin supplied in the Laser 4347 kit which is slightly fatter than the timing pin. I'll be praying that the pin doesn't bend otherwise it won't be coming out of the block again and the crankshaft will be in a bit of trouble!
Mathew
Duncan Wood
May 15, 2013, 5:30:57 PM5/15/13
to
Mrcheerful
May 15, 2013, 5:28:07 PM5/15/13
to
is no danger of the pin bending.
Mathew Newton
May 15, 2013, 6:07:13 PM5/15/13
to
On Wednesday, 15 May 2013 22:28:07 UTC+1, Mrcheerful wrote:
> the crank pushes straight against the pin when doing up the bolt, so there
> is no danger of the pin bending.
I was hoping that will be the case...
> the crank pushes straight against the pin when doing up the bolt, so there
> is no danger of the pin bending.
I had read of others managing to bend the locking tool but I think now that the mistake they've all be making it use to to *undo* the bolt thus I guess the crank is pushing on the side of the pin rather than on the end.
Thanks everyone for the suggestions and advice - finger's crossed my next post will be my last and not a query regarding bent valves!
Mathew
Mathew Newton
May 15, 2013, 6:10:19 PM5/15/13
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On Wednesday, 15 May 2013 23:07:13 UTC+1, Mathew Newton wrote:
> [...] thus I guess the crank is pushing on the side of the pin rather than on the end.
... when turning *counter-clockwise* I mean.
> [...] thus I guess the crank is pushing on the side of the pin rather than on the end.
... when turning *counter-clockwise* I mean.
Tim..
May 16, 2013, 9:54:50 AM5/16/13
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"Mathew Newton" <mathewja...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:2e865c14-bef0-45e3...@googlegroups.com...
tim.
Mathew Newton
May 16, 2013, 10:11:51 AM5/16/13
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Hi Tim,
On Thursday, May 16, 2013 2:54:50 PM UTC+1, Tim.. wrote:
> There should be thread lock on the bolt according to A/D. tim.
I've got an Autodata printout but don't remember seeing any mention. Might you have checked a different model? This is a 1.25L from 2002, but still a Mark 4 (so must be one of the very last).
If it is warranted, and noting that I'll hopefully not need to remove it ever again given the 10year/100000mile timing belt schedule(!), any particular recommendation? I've never used threadlock before and see there are a number of types available.
Mathew
On Thursday, May 16, 2013 2:54:50 PM UTC+1, Tim.. wrote:
> There should be thread lock on the bolt according to A/D. tim.
If it is warranted, and noting that I'll hopefully not need to remove it ever again given the 10year/100000mile timing belt schedule(!), any particular recommendation? I've never used threadlock before and see there are a number of types available.
Mathew
Mathew Newton
May 16, 2013, 5:17:57 PM5/16/13
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On Thursday, 16 May 2013 14:54:50 UTC+1, Tim.. wrote:
> There should be thread lock on the bolt according to A/D.
Any chance you could check that for me Tim?
> There should be thread lock on the bolt according to A/D.
My printout from Autodata definitely doesn't mention thread lock, nor does the Haynes manual. They both merely stress the importane of torqueing the (new) bolt to 40Nm + 90 degrees.
I can definitely confirm that the original bolt (from new) didn't have any on either.
Given the significance of this issue the job is on hold for now so if you could check your reference that'd be appreciated!
Mathew
Mrcheerful
May 16, 2013, 5:40:03 PM5/16/13
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and I have not used any on the several that I have done.
Mathew Newton
May 18, 2013, 3:25:40 PM5/18/13
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On Saturday, 11 May 2013 19:05:23 UTC+1, mathewja...@googlemail.com wrote:
> I'm changing the cambelt on my wife's 2002 1.25L Fiesta, or at least
> trying to as I haven't even got to the fun bit yet...
I have now! :-)
> I'm changing the cambelt on my wife's 2002 1.25L Fiesta, or at least
> trying to as I haven't even got to the fun bit yet...
I finished the job this morning and all went well.
When torquing up the crank bolt to 40Nm + 90deg I was curious as to how tight it was going during the angle tightening so I continued to use the torque wrench after the initial 40Nm and it max'd out at 200 Nm / 150 lbft at about 45 degrees. Switching to the 2' breaker bar finished it off nicely.
All in all it was a nice introduction to cambelt changes for me and there were enough hurdles to give me the confidence to do more now!
Thanks everyone for the help, particularly MrCheerful who stayed for the duration!
One final question though; how many miles to you have to drive before you stop worrying if the bolts are going to loosen?! ;-)
Mathew
Mrcheerful
May 18, 2013, 6:28:01 PM5/18/13
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Peter Hill
May 19, 2013, 4:02:36 AM5/19/13
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the limiter hard in 2nd was probably a large part of the cause.
Angle tightened bolts don't come undone and don't need a re-check at a
short interval after fitting. You have put a stretch in the bolt, pitch
x angle / 360. If the bolt isn't replaced then they calculated the
stretch to be elastic and the bolt returns to it's original length when
undone. Usually there is "replace if length exceeds xxx.xx mm" in the
workshop manual. Other angle tightened bolts are taken past yield and
will have a permanent set, these should always be replaced.
Mathew Newton
May 19, 2013, 9:22:01 AM5/19/13
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On Sunday, 19 May 2013 09:02:36 UTC+1, Peter Hill wrote:
> Other angle tightened bolts are taken past yield and
> will have a permanent set, these should always be replaced.
This one was a 'must not reuse' bolt.
> Other angle tightened bolts are taken past yield and
> will have a permanent set, these should always be replaced.
I must say, it did kind of feel 'different' to a normal bolt insofar that it was very smooth to rotate, despite the high torque. Perhaps I was imagining it because I knew it was stretching, but then thinking about it if it is stretching more than a 'normal' bolt then it stands to reason there's a bit more give.
Or perhaps that's a 2' breaker bar for you!
Mathew
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