Is Fiat Punto and Vauxhall Corsa the same car under the skin?
johannes
Grande Punto. The window arrangement is the same, the facia and instruments
are almost the same. It makes the same noises and the handling is the same.
DervMan
news:48F1F71C...@sizefit4364666643ter.com...
Yes they are.
--
The DervMan
www.dervman.com
johannes
I first thing I noticed was that the keys were identical. Inside the car
they look the same, apart from the different Manufacturer's logo in various
places. The car is spacious and engine is very quiet, but car feels twitchy
like a small car when you drive. The most annoying thing with the Corsa is
that you can't cancel the indicator, it will only cancels after you make a
proper turn. So you can't use the indicator if you want to make a swerve
around a parked car on a narrow road.
Adrian C
From <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Gamma_platform>
"A new version of the Gamma platform, dubbed SCCS (Small Common
Components and Systems), was codeveloped since 2002 by a team of Fiat
and Opel engineers located in Turin. The platform premiered with 2006
Fiat Grande Punto and is used in 2007 Corsa."
--
Adrian C
JackH
>
>
> DervMan wrote:
>>
>> "johannes" <jo...@sizefit4364666643ter.com> wrote in message
>> news:48F1F71C...@sizefit4364666643ter.com...
>> > Hired a VX Corsa today, I can't believe how similar it feels to the
>> > Grande Punto. The window arrangement is the same, the facia and
>> > instruments
>> > are almost the same. It makes the same noises and the handling is the
>> > same.
>>
>> Yes they are.
>
> I first thing I noticed was that the keys were identical. Inside the car
> they look the same, apart from the different Manufacturer's logo in
> various
> places. The car is spacious and engine is very quiet, but car feels
> twitchy
> like a small car when you drive. The most annoying thing with the Corsa is
You can. Apply it again.
> it will only cancels after you make a proper turn.
It doesn't, see above.
> So you can't use the indicator if you want to make a swerve
> around a parked car on a narrow road.
You can - try only moving the switch half way if you use one of these
again - it should kick in 'three flashes and you're out'.
--
JackH
02 Yamaha YZF-R6 - 03 VW Passat TDI Sport
johannes
Yep. They managed to make the cars look different, but closer inspection
reveals that the bodies cover the same outline. But I didn't notice this
before the moment I was handed the key, then suddenly the penny dropped...
johannes
JackH wrote:
>
> "johannes" <jo...@sizefit4364666643ter.com> wrote in message
> news:48F21035...@sizefit4364666643ter.com...
> >
> >
> > DervMan wrote:
> >>
> >> "johannes" <jo...@sizefit4364666643ter.com> wrote in message
> >> news:48F1F71C...@sizefit4364666643ter.com...
> >> > Hired a VX Corsa today, I can't believe how similar it feels to the
> >> > Grande Punto. The window arrangement is the same, the facia and
> >> > instruments
> >> > are almost the same. It makes the same noises and the handling is the
> >> > same.
> >>
> >> Yes they are.
> >
> > I first thing I noticed was that the keys were identical. Inside the car
> > they look the same, apart from the different Manufacturer's logo in
> > various
> > places. The car is spacious and engine is very quiet, but car feels
> > twitchy
> > like a small car when you drive. The most annoying thing with the Corsa is
> > that you can't cancel the indicator...
>
> You can. Apply it again.
Typical in a computer age; you have to do something which is illogical. The
logical move would be to move the indicator back to centre, as in my very
old Saab.
[...]
> You can - try only moving the switch half way if you use one of these
> again - it should kick in 'three flashes and you're out'.
OK (I suppose). Next model I expect to see a keyboard and a mouse instead
of steering wheel and indicators :-)
Peter Hill
Many cars have had move indicator halfway for passing for many years,
at least back to 1988.
As for keybord and mouse the BMW iDrive is close.
--
Peter Hill
Spamtrap reply domain as per NNTP-Posting-Host in header
Can of worms - what every fisherman wants.
Can of worms - what every PC owner gets!
Duncan Wood
Yes but they used to let you cancel it by letting go.
johannes
Got my 15 old Saab 9000 back again, how wonderful it felt compared to the
08 Corsa! The Corsa wasn't a bad drive, and everything worked as it should,
the engine was smooth ( at idle), though strained at 70. But compared to the
old Saab, it felt wandering and twitchy, whereas the Saab felt so easy and
relaxed in comparison, almost like gliding. I could probably live with the
Corsa, but I don't really understand why there has to be this difference in
driving experience; at 1100 kg the Corsa isn't really a small car any more,
so why can't they sort out the steering in a modern car?
DervMan
"Sort out?" They have sorted it out. You're just used to something with
relatively inert steering combined with fifteen years of wear.
You'll find a large number of machines these days feel twitchy. Moving from
our Mondeo to our Ka, that felt twitchy. After getting used to it, I found
the Ka responsive whereas many larger cars feels inert.
Have you tried the 9-3 Sports Saloon, as this is another example of a sharp,
responsive steering set up.
--
The DervMan
www.dervman.com
Chris Whelan
Does the Corsa still have electric PAS? That can feel strange until you
adapt to it.
If not set up correctly, it can also react differently depending on whether
you are turning left or right!
Chris
--
Remove prejudice to reply.
johannes
But if the steering was in inert, the car would wander about. My Saab doesn't
wander, it keeps in perfectly straight line on the motorway with little effort.
There is no sign of wear as far as I can feel; the steering is very precise.
Maybe it is something to do with the castor angle of the front wheels.
The Corsa does react quickly to a turn, almost too quickly, but that is only
useful at very low speeds like in a car park. Oh I wish I could have both
worlds: A small, but stable car.
DervMan
Erm, no; that simply means that the steering system doesn't respond to the
tiny movements of the wheel that happen. Many of the American cars from the
1980s need about a quarter of lock before they start to turn, presumably for
coffee-drinking drivers on freeways... :)
> There is no sign of wear as far as I can feel; the steering is very
> precise.
That you find modern stuff twitchy could simply be that you are simply used
to how your 9000 drives or there is a problem
> Maybe it is something to do with the castor angle of the front wheels.
It is simply how the Corsa - amongst a gazillion other cars - has been set
up.
> The Corsa does react quickly to a turn, almost too quickly, but that is
> only
> useful at very low speeds like in a car park.
Erm - absolutely not. It's useful for darting into and out of roundabouts
or corners.
> Oh I wish I could have both
> worlds: A small, but stable car.
Stability isn't the same as a sluggish turn in and I think you mean
something else. So have you tried a 9-3 Sports Saloon?
--
The DervMan
www.dervman.com
Duncan Wood
Corsas are quite twitchy though, they're short & feel like there's lots of
toe-in so they respond quickly to the steering, but also to wind & bumps.
johannes
But you're talking about the old slushy pin & ball steering. The 9000 has rack
and pinion steering, which is mostly used nowadays. I suggest the difference
is in the castor angle, as I mentioned before.
>
> > There is no sign of wear as far as I can feel; the steering is very
> > precise.
>
> That you find modern stuff twitchy could simply be that you are simply used
> to how your 9000 drives or there is a problem
Somehow you're suggesting that it is my fault, I strongly disagree.
It's absolutely not a problem having a car that goes in the direction
where you steer it and doesn't wander about. The 9000 is not a go cart,
and not intended to be used as such. I could probably be used to drive
a twitchy car, but its a step backward IMO. After 150,000 miles, the
fun of darting around somehow wears out...
> > Maybe it is something to do with the castor angle of the front wheels.
>
> It is simply how the Corsa - amongst a gazillion other cars - has been set
> up.
Maybe because there is not enough room for a castor angle in a compact car,
whereas the 9000 has a longer bonnet.
> > The Corsa does react quickly to a turn, almost too quickly, but that is
> > only
> > useful at very low speeds like in a car park.
>
> Erm - absolutely not. It's useful for darting into and out of roundabouts
> or corners.
And making you car sick...
> > Oh I wish I could have both
> > worlds: A small, but stable car.
>
> Stability isn't the same as a sluggish turn in and I think you mean
> something else. So have you tried a 9-3 Sports Saloon?
Nope.
asahartz
<jo...@sizefit4364666643ter.com> wrote:
>
>
>DervMan wrote:
>>
>> Erm - absolutely not. It's useful for darting into and out of roundabouts
>> or corners.
>
>And making you car sick...
>
No, that's part of the fun in driving! Try it in a classic Mini and
you'll see what I mean!
--
asahartz woz ere
johannes
Sir, there are two kinds of driving: Having fun in weekends; showing off
your skills. And then there is long distance commuter driving where you
want to arrive in a relaxed state.
DervMan
[snip]
Not quite - I do mean the stuff with more modern (less antique!) steering
set ups.
>> > There is no sign of wear as far as I can feel; the steering is very
>> > precise.
>>
>> That you find modern stuff twitchy could simply be that you are simply
>> used
>> to how your 9000 drives or there is a problem
>
> Somehow you're suggesting that it is my fault, I strongly disagree.
Sorry; I am.
> It's absolutely not a problem having a car that goes in the direction
> where you steer it and doesn't wander about. The 9000 is not a go cart,
> and not intended to be used as such. I could probably be used to drive
> a twitchy car, but its a step backward IMO. After 150,000 miles, the
> fun of darting around somehow wears out...
It sounds like... well... how to put this nicely..? Ah yes, you're maturing
more in what you want to drive...
>> > Maybe it is something to do with the castor angle of the front wheels.
>>
>> It is simply how the Corsa - amongst a gazillion other cars - has been
>> set
>> up.
>
> Maybe because there is not enough room for a castor angle in a compact
> car,
> whereas the 9000 has a longer bonnet.
>
>> > The Corsa does react quickly to a turn, almost too quickly, but that is
>> > only
>> > useful at very low speeds like in a car park.
>>
>> Erm - absolutely not. It's useful for darting into and out of
>> roundabouts
>> or corners.
>
> And making you car sick...
Nope.
>> > Oh I wish I could have both
>> > worlds: A small, but stable car.
>>
>> Stability isn't the same as a sluggish turn in and I think you mean
>> something else. So have you tried a 9-3 Sports Saloon?
>
> Nope.
Then the next time Saab try to get you to swap for a newer model, perhaps go
and try one? The 9-3 feels silly responsive to steering input and it's very
twitchy _but_ one does get used to it after a while. I found my Ka twitchy
and too-responsive at first, but you adapt your driving and compensate.
Actually it's probably a lack of compensating for steering input.
Something inexperienced aircrew suffer from is flying on the needles, trying
to adjust for every change in an instrument, which forms a kind of human
feedback loop resulting in a very jerky ride. If you're in something taut
in the set up, the temptation is to try to over-compensate.
--
The DervMan
www.dervman.com
DervMan
There's no reason why one machine can't achieve both objectives, but if one
has spent a long time in a machine biased for one type, they'll be lots of
frustration as one tries to adjust.
--
The DervMan
www.dervman.com
asahartz
As it is impossible to arrive in a relaxed state on my 25 mile commute
I'll take as much fun as I can get while I'm doing it!
--
asahartz woz ere
johannes
Then I will stick with my 9000. There steering is very precise and the car
goes where I want it to go without much hassle. Compared to the Corsa, and
possibly the 9-3, it feels like gliding.
DervMan
news:490C47DF...@size263753733fitter.com...
[snip]
>> Then the next time Saab try to get you to swap for a newer model, perhaps
>> go
>> and try one? The 9-3 feels silly responsive to steering input and it's
>> very
>> twitchy _but_ one does get used to it after a while. I found my Ka
>> twitchy
>> and too-responsive at first, but you adapt your driving and compensate.
>> Actually it's probably a lack of compensating for steering input.
>>
>> Something inexperienced aircrew suffer from is flying on the needles,
>> trying
>> to adjust for every change in an instrument, which forms a kind of human
>> feedback loop resulting in a very jerky ride. If you're in something
>> taut
>> in the set up, the temptation is to try to over-compensate.
>
> Then I will stick with my 9000. There steering is very precise and the car
> goes where I want it to go without much hassle. Compared to the Corsa, and
> possibly the 9-3, it feels like gliding.
Meh maybe to you, when I go _from_ the 9-3 Sports Saloon to something less
sharp, it feel imprecise... until I get used to it. Then back into the 9-3
and she feels sharp... ;-)
--
The DervMan
www.dervman.com
johannes
The 9000 feels sharp enough, the difference may be in the stronger self
centering, possibly due to larger castor angle. I much prefer this on a
motorway.