FIAT Stilo passenger seat airbag sensor

[D.M. Procida]

We've had a warning light about airbags; it appears to be the sensor in
the passenger seat (apparently a common fault, as far as I can tell by
reading around) according to the garage - and now it's an MOT test
failure.

The part alone costs £300!

Any suggestions? Perhaps find a replacement seat from a breaker's yard?

Thanks,

Daniele

[Chris Whelan]

Have you had a look on eBay?

There are various used sensors on there, and several ways of defeating
the warning, all a lot less than £300!

Chris

--
Remove prejudice to reply.

[Adrian]

On Tue, 04 Jun 2013 15:59:28 +0100, D.M. Procida wrote:

The usual cause for these (whatever the car) is a fracture in the wiring
caused by the seat being moved back'ard and for'ard, together with rear
seat passenger's feat and gumf underneath the seat.

Replacing the wiring usually sorts it.

[Chris Whelan]

'Aggressive vacuuming' is another common cause, often by valeters!

Googling suggests it's less likely to be that simple in the case of the
Stilo however.

[D.M. Procida]

They said they're sure it's the sensor in the seat, having had a go at
the wiring.

Daniele

[D.M. Procida]

I saw plenty of sensor "emulators", that pretend that the seat is
occupied. Are they legal? Will the car pass the MOT test with one?

I dodn't see any acutal sensors though, but perhaps I am looking for the
wrong thing.

Daniele

[Scott M]

D.M. Procida wrote:

> Chris Whelan <cawh...@prejudicentlworld.com> wrote:

>> There are various used sensors on there, and several ways of defeating
>> the warning, all a lot less than £300!
>
> I saw plenty of sensor "emulators", that pretend that the seat is
> occupied. Are they legal? Will the car pass the MOT test with one?

If the light goes out then it'll pass. It's no great shakes to fit a
bypass - it just means the passenger air bag will always fire in the
relevant collision rather than depending on someone being in the seat.

Part of the reason for the sensors is to reduce repair costs in an
accident but this becomes moot once a car is a few years old, since the
car's likely a write off for other reasons. But if it's not then 2nd
hand airbags are plentiful and cheap so no loss there either.

Scott

[Chris Bartram]

http://www.fiatforum.com/stilo/109017-seat-occupancy-sensor.html worth a go?

[D.M. Procida]

Chris Bartram <ne...@delete-me.piglet-net.net> wrote:

> >>> We've had a warning light about airbags; it appears to be the sensor in
> >>> the passenger seat (apparently a common fault, as far as I can tell by
> >>> reading around) according to the garage - and now it's an MOT test
> >>> failure.

> >> The usual cause for these (whatever the car) is a fracture in the wiring
> >> caused by the seat being moved back'ard and for'ard, together with rear
> >> seat passenger's feat and gumf underneath the seat.
> >>
> >> Replacing the wiring usually sorts it.
> >
> > They said they're sure it's the sensor in the seat, having had a go at
> > the wiring.

> http://www.fiatforum.com/stilo/109017-seat-occupancy-sensor.html worth a go?

You mean soldering up a new one?

I don't like the idea of simply disabling it altogether.

Daniele

[D.M. Procida]

Scott M <no_one@no_where.net> wrote:

> D.M. Procida wrote:
> > Chris Whelan <cawh...@prejudicentlworld.com> wrote:
>
> >> There are various used sensors on there, and several ways of defeating
> >> the warning, all a lot less than �300!
> >
> > I saw plenty of sensor "emulators", that pretend that the seat is
> > occupied. Are they legal? Will the car pass the MOT test with one?
>
> If the light goes out then it'll pass. It's no great shakes to fit a
> bypass - it just means the passenger air bag will always fire in the
> relevant collision rather than depending on someone being in the seat.

Yes, though I don't want to have to argue that with an
overly-punctillious MOT examiner!

> Part of the reason for the sensors is to reduce repair costs in an
> accident but this becomes moot once a car is a few years old, since the
> car's likely a write off for other reasons. But if it's not then 2nd
> hand airbags are plentiful and cheap so no loss there either.

Quite true.

Daniele

[Chris Whelan]

On Tue, 04 Jun 2013 16:41:32 +0100, D.M. Procida wrote:

[...]

> I saw plenty of sensor "emulators", that pretend that the seat is
> occupied. Are they legal? Will the car pass the MOT test with one?

Yep, the test looks for correct operation of the warning lamps.

> I dodn't see any acutal sensors though, but perhaps I am looking for the
> wrong thing.
>
> Daniele

There was at least one.

[Chris Bartram]

Solder up the thing with all the resistors. It's a homebrew emulator, so
the airbag will fire irregardless of the seat being occupied.

I wouldn't want to disable it, either.

[JB]

"Chris Bartram" <ne...@delete-me.piglet-net.net> wrote in message
news:kolifk$jjl$1...@dont-email.me...

It works too. A colleague at work did it in his lunch hour. A big saving on
new.

> I wouldn't want to disable it, either.

*ding*

[Chris Whelan]

On Tue, 04 Jun 2013 21:54:56 +0100, SteveH wrote:

> Chris Whelan <cawh...@prejudicentlworld.com> wrote:
>

>> On Tue, 04 Jun 2013 16:41:32 +0100, D.M. Procida wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> > I saw plenty of sensor "emulators", that pretend that the seat is
>> > occupied. Are they legal? Will the car pass the MOT test with one?
>>
>> Yep, the test looks for correct operation of the warning lamps.
>

> I'm not sure this is the case - I *think* it's back to being advisory
> only.

It's still in the manual dated April 2013:

http://www.motinfo.gov.uk/htdocs/m4s05000401.htm

[D.M. Procida]

SteveH <itali...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Chris Whelan <cawh...@prejudicentlworld.com> wrote:
>
> > > I'm not sure this is the case - I *think* it's back to being advisory
> > > only.
> >
> > It's still in the manual dated April 2013:
> >
> > http://www.motinfo.gov.uk/htdocs/m4s05000401.htm
>

> Ahhh, here we go.
>
> Remove the warning lamp bulb:
>
> 'SRS warning lamp inoperative has been deleted.'

If you're suggesting removing the lamp, which in our car is all too
operative, the problem is that the dashboard panel still says "airbag
failure stop engine" and beeps at you.

Daniele

[Mike P]

On Tue, 04 Jun 2013 22:11:30 +0100, SteveH panted, in an erotic manner:

> Chris Whelan <cawh...@prejudicentlworld.com> wrote:
>
>> > I'm not sure this is the case - I *think* it's back to being advisory
>> > only.
>>
>> It's still in the manual dated April 2013:
>>
>> http://www.motinfo.gov.uk/htdocs/m4s05000401.htm
>

> Ahhh, here we go.
>
> Remove the warning lamp bulb:
>
> 'SRS warning lamp inoperative has been deleted.'
>

> Our 156 has had an airbag fault since I bought it - I've tried an ECU
> reset, but it looks like I need a new airbag ECU or possibly a new
> driver's curtain bag. That's probably only just economically viable on a
> 56 plated car - especially on a 56 plated car that was built in 2002 and
> is an import... essentially, it's not worth a lot, yet it's still a
> bloody good car. So I'll just remove the bulb.

It is possible, on some cars, especially certain French ones, using the
correct diagnostic gear (or a cheap chinese copy of it), to tell the
airbag ECU that a particular airbag causing and issue is not installed.
This makes the airbag ECU then ignore that (faulty) airbag, test the
other ones that are installed and good, and then switch the airbag light
off = one happy MOT tester.

Of course, if you want working airbags, this is no use at all, but it'll
get through a MOT.

I'm getting the airbag sorted tomorrow anyway, but there you go. Might be
the same with other cars, I've no idea.





--
Mike P

[Mike P]

On Tue, 04 Jun 2013 22:11:30 +0100, SteveH panted, in an erotic manner:

> Chris Whelan <cawh...@prejudicentlworld.com> wrote:
>

>> > I'm not sure this is the case - I *think* it's back to being advisory
>> > only.
>>
>> It's still in the manual dated April 2013:
>>
>> http://www.motinfo.gov.uk/htdocs/m4s05000401.htm
>

[D.M. Procida]

SteveH <itali...@gmail.com> wrote:

> D.M. Procida <real-not-anti...@apple-juice.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > > It's still in the manual dated April 2013:
> > > >
> > > > http://www.motinfo.gov.uk/htdocs/m4s05000401.htm
> > >
> > > Ahhh, here we go.
> > >
> > > Remove the warning lamp bulb:
> > >
> > > 'SRS warning lamp inoperative has been deleted.'
> >
> > If you're suggesting removing the lamp, which in our car is all too
> > operative, the problem is that the dashboard panel still says "airbag
> > failure stop engine" and beeps at you.
>

> There's a loophole for that, too!
>
> 14 If a car shows a "warning message" instead of a "warning lamp"
> becoming illuminated, would this be a fail?
>
> No. Under type approval, safety and environmental systems are required
> to illuminate a "Malfunction Indicator Lamp" (MIL) to indicate a serious
> malfunction. These are simplistic and easy for drivers to recognise,
> understand and act on. Dashboard warning messages are likely to be
> supplementary and provide additional helpful information as will access
> to the On Board Diagnostic information to identify faults during the
> repair process.
>
> So, remove the bulb and live with the message!

Unfortunately, the car is at the garage, and the MOT certificate has
expired. So while I might with a few hours of cursing and cut knuckles
be able to take apart the dashboard to remove the lamp, I'd have to do
it down at the garage!

I'm inclined to buy one of these sensor emulator things; it's not too
expensive, and it'll be the least messing around (if you don't count
paying ��� to let the garage do all the work).

Daniele

[Nick Finnigan]

So is ESC, but I passed last month with the warning light permanently on.

[Theo Markettos]

D.M. Procida <real-not-anti...@apple-juice.co.uk> wrote:
> Unfortunately, the car is at the garage, and the MOT certificate has
> expired. So while I might with a few hours of cursing and cut knuckles
> be able to take apart the dashboard to remove the lamp, I'd have to do
> it down at the garage!

You're allowed to drive the car to and from prebooked MOT and repairs
(assuming it's still roadworthy). So drive home from MOT fail, get the
spanners out, ring up the garage and ask to book a partial retest for this
one item (which they're within rights to charge for, but may not), drive
back to garage to collect MOT at appointed time.

Theo

[D.M. Procida]

OK, thanks, I didn't know that it was OK to drive home with a failed MOT
test.

Daniele

[Scion]

D.M. Procida put finger to keyboard:

You can, unless the car is not roadworthy. Of course, that applies to
driving *to* the test as well, but if the MOT place has just told you of a
dangerous fault then you're on much shakier ground driving it away.

[D.M. Procida]

Thank you to everyone for your replies and advice.

I bought a "seat sensor emulator", that plugs in under the passenger
seat, bypassing the sensor that tells the car there's a passenger in it.

<http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=111088085640>

It took a moment to fit, and the car passed the MOT test this morning.

Daniele