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Fiesta TDC locking pin question
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Etaoin Shrdlu
Aug 8, 2014, 5:52:16 AM8/8/14
to
I'm going to have to replace the timing belt on my Fiesta Zetec soon.
Haynes show a home-made tool for holding the crankshaft pulley while you
undo the bolt, but also mention a locking pin for retightening. Now, I
do have the locking pin (not just the timing pin). Could I also use this
while undoing the bolt, instead of having to make the other tool? I'd
have guessed you could, but I don't want to snap it into the crankcase.
Also, why do they say to remove the cam sprockets? Does this mean that
there is no key on the crankshaft, and that since you are unlikely to
get the crankshaft sprocket back in the same position, you need to be
able to reset the camshaft sprockets more precisely?
Haynes show a home-made tool for holding the crankshaft pulley while you
undo the bolt, but also mention a locking pin for retightening. Now, I
do have the locking pin (not just the timing pin). Could I also use this
while undoing the bolt, instead of having to make the other tool? I'd
have guessed you could, but I don't want to snap it into the crankcase.
Also, why do they say to remove the cam sprockets? Does this mean that
there is no key on the crankshaft, and that since you are unlikely to
get the crankshaft sprocket back in the same position, you need to be
able to reset the camshaft sprockets more precisely?
Chris Whelan
Aug 8, 2014, 6:58:58 AM8/8/14
to
However, on the basis that it's a Zetec *engine*, rather than trim level,
the crankshaft pulley is *not* keyed.
It is essential to use the correct tools and method when doing the cam-
belt on these; if you get anything wrong, it will require a cylinder head
rebuild as a minimum.
I know of garages that have been over-confident with Zetec engines; in
one case, they got it wrong twice on the same job and ended up fitting a
second hand engine to the poor owners Focus.
Chris
--
Remove prejudice to reply.
Etaoin Shrdlu
Aug 8, 2014, 7:14:30 AM8/8/14
to
Chris Whelan wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Aug 2014 10:52:16 +0100, Etaoin Shrdlu wrote:
>
>> I'm going to have to replace the timing belt on my Fiesta Zetec soon.
>> Haynes show a home-made tool for holding the crankshaft pulley while you
>> undo the bolt, but also mention a locking pin for retightening. Now, I
>> do have the locking pin (not just the timing pin). Could I also use this
>> while undoing the bolt, instead of having to make the other tool? I'd
>> have guessed you could, but I don't want to snap it into the crankcase.
>>
>> Also, why do they say to remove the cam sprockets? Does this mean that
>> there is no key on the crankshaft, and that since you are unlikely to
>> get the crankshaft sprocket back in the same position, you need to be
>> able to reset the camshaft sprockets more precisely?
>
> Year and engine size are always a help...
Sorry, I don't usually forget. 2003 1.4 Zetec engine.
> On Fri, 08 Aug 2014 10:52:16 +0100, Etaoin Shrdlu wrote:
>
>> I'm going to have to replace the timing belt on my Fiesta Zetec soon.
>> Haynes show a home-made tool for holding the crankshaft pulley while you
>> undo the bolt, but also mention a locking pin for retightening. Now, I
>> do have the locking pin (not just the timing pin). Could I also use this
>> while undoing the bolt, instead of having to make the other tool? I'd
>> have guessed you could, but I don't want to snap it into the crankcase.
>>
>> Also, why do they say to remove the cam sprockets? Does this mean that
>> there is no key on the crankshaft, and that since you are unlikely to
>> get the crankshaft sprocket back in the same position, you need to be
>> able to reset the camshaft sprockets more precisely?
>
> Year and engine size are always a help...
> However, on the basis that it's a Zetec *engine*, rather than trim level,
> the crankshaft pulley is *not* keyed.
> It is essential to use the correct tools and method when doing the cam-
> belt on these; if you get anything wrong, it will require a cylinder head
> rebuild as a minimum.
>
> I know of garages that have been over-confident with Zetec engines; in
> one case, they got it wrong twice on the same job and ended up fitting a
> second hand engine to the poor owners Focus.
>
> Chris
appear to be plastic, and I don't want to have to hold them (and risk
weakening them) with a home-made tool. I suppose the most important
thing is to hand-crank the engine a few times after the job, and make
sure the marks still line up. Last time I had to do a timing belt was a
1.6 Capri; which was a doddle, of course, but that was the good old days.
Chris Whelan
Aug 8, 2014, 7:47:12 AM8/8/14
to
On Fri, 08 Aug 2014 12:14:30 +0100, Etaoin Shrdlu wrote:
[...]
> I'd have preferred to leave the camshaft sprockets alone, since they
> appear to be plastic, and I don't want to have to hold them (and risk
> weakening them) with a home-made tool. I suppose the most important
> thing is to hand-crank the engine a few times after the job, and make
> sure the marks still line up. Last time I had to do a timing belt was a
> 1.6 Capri; which was a doddle, of course, but that was the good old
> days.
If you get it wrong, even turning it over by hand is likely to bend a
valve.
I'm guessing the Capri was a Pinto? They don't usually bend the valves
when the engine is mis-timed or the belt breaks. Anything vaguely modern
will, at the very least.
I don't mean to belittle your ability, and good for you if you want to
have a go, but you *really* need to get it right with these. You might
even want to consider getting it done professionally; the cost of the
'proper' tools you need will pay for most of the labour costs.
I tried to warn a neighbour about how tricky engines with un-keyed
crankshaft pulleys can be. He wouldn't listen, and a fortnight later his
wife's '03 Fiesta went off to the scrappy...
He's not unskilled; he's tackled similar jobs, and bigger ones, before.
He also has a decent tool kit.
[...]
> I'd have preferred to leave the camshaft sprockets alone, since they
> appear to be plastic, and I don't want to have to hold them (and risk
> weakening them) with a home-made tool. I suppose the most important
> thing is to hand-crank the engine a few times after the job, and make
> sure the marks still line up. Last time I had to do a timing belt was a
> 1.6 Capri; which was a doddle, of course, but that was the good old
> days.
valve.
I'm guessing the Capri was a Pinto? They don't usually bend the valves
when the engine is mis-timed or the belt breaks. Anything vaguely modern
will, at the very least.
I don't mean to belittle your ability, and good for you if you want to
have a go, but you *really* need to get it right with these. You might
even want to consider getting it done professionally; the cost of the
'proper' tools you need will pay for most of the labour costs.
I tried to warn a neighbour about how tricky engines with un-keyed
crankshaft pulleys can be. He wouldn't listen, and a fortnight later his
wife's '03 Fiesta went off to the scrappy...
He's not unskilled; he's tackled similar jobs, and bigger ones, before.
He also has a decent tool kit.
Etaoin Shrdlu
Aug 8, 2014, 8:29:25 AM8/8/14
to
Chris Whelan wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Aug 2014 12:14:30 +0100, Etaoin Shrdlu wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> I'd have preferred to leave the camshaft sprockets alone, since they
>> appear to be plastic, and I don't want to have to hold them (and risk
>> weakening them) with a home-made tool. I suppose the most important
>> thing is to hand-crank the engine a few times after the job, and make
>> sure the marks still line up. Last time I had to do a timing belt was a
>> 1.6 Capri; which was a doddle, of course, but that was the good old
>> days.
>
> If you get it wrong, even turning it over by hand is likely to bend a
> valve.
>
> I'm guessing the Capri was a Pinto? They don't usually bend the valves
> when the engine is mis-timed or the belt breaks. Anything vaguely modern
> will, at the very least.
Yes, it was. The belt stripped some teeth while we were out, and all
> On Fri, 08 Aug 2014 12:14:30 +0100, Etaoin Shrdlu wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> I'd have preferred to leave the camshaft sprockets alone, since they
>> appear to be plastic, and I don't want to have to hold them (and risk
>> weakening them) with a home-made tool. I suppose the most important
>> thing is to hand-crank the engine a few times after the job, and make
>> sure the marks still line up. Last time I had to do a timing belt was a
>> 1.6 Capri; which was a doddle, of course, but that was the good old
>> days.
>
> If you get it wrong, even turning it over by hand is likely to bend a
> valve.
>
> I'm guessing the Capri was a Pinto? They don't usually bend the valves
> when the engine is mis-timed or the belt breaks. Anything vaguely modern
> will, at the very least.
that happened was a sort of loud raspberry noise.
> I don't mean to belittle your ability, and good for you if you want to
> have a go, but you *really* need to get it right with these. You might
> even want to consider getting it done professionally; the cost of the
> 'proper' tools you need will pay for most of the labour costs.
>
> I tried to warn a neighbour about how tricky engines with un-keyed
> crankshaft pulleys can be. He wouldn't listen, and a fortnight later his
> wife's '03 Fiesta went off to the scrappy...
>
> He's not unskilled; he's tackled similar jobs, and bigger ones, before.
> He also has a decent tool kit.
>
> Chris
things done professionally any more (unlike the Capri days); but I'm a
bit of a perfectionist, and try to do as much as I can in everything. I
don't want to wreck the car, though :-)
Duncan Wood
Aug 8, 2014, 6:04:57 PM8/8/14
to
On Fri, 08 Aug 2014 10:52:16 +0100, Etaoin Shrdlu <no...@chance.com> wrote:
> I'm going to have to replace the timing belt on my Fiesta Zetec soon.
> Haynes show a home-made tool for holding the crankshaft pulley while you
> undo the bolt, but also mention a locking pin for retightening. Now, I
> do have the locking pin (not just the timing pin). Could I also use this
> while undoing the bolt, instead of having to make the other tool? I'd
> have guessed you could, but I don't want to snap it into the crankcase.
>
Well bend it, get it stuck & or time it up wrong cos you've knackered it
> I'm going to have to replace the timing belt on my Fiesta Zetec soon.
> Haynes show a home-made tool for holding the crankshaft pulley while you
> undo the bolt, but also mention a locking pin for retightening. Now, I
> do have the locking pin (not just the timing pin). Could I also use this
> while undoing the bolt, instead of having to make the other tool? I'd
> have guessed you could, but I don't want to snap it into the crankcase.
>
You can end up applying a lot of welly to it.
> Also, why do they say to remove the cam sprockets? Does this mean that
> there is no key on the crankshaft, and that since you are unlikely to
> get the crankshaft sprocket back in the same position, you need to be
> able to reset the camshaft sprockets more precisely?
Etaoin Shrdlu
Aug 8, 2014, 6:46:54 PM8/8/14
to
Duncan Wood wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Aug 2014 10:52:16 +0100, Etaoin Shrdlu <no...@chance.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm going to have to replace the timing belt on my Fiesta Zetec soon.
>> Haynes show a home-made tool for holding the crankshaft pulley while
>> you undo the bolt, but also mention a locking pin for retightening.
>> Now, I do have the locking pin (not just the timing pin). Could I also
>> use this while undoing the bolt, instead of having to make the other
>> tool? I'd have guessed you could, but I don't want to snap it into the
>> crankcase.
>>
>
> Well bend it, get it stuck & or time it up wrong cos you've knackered it
> You can end up applying a lot of welly to it.
I realised you can't really use the locking pin to undo the crank bolt,
> On Fri, 08 Aug 2014 10:52:16 +0100, Etaoin Shrdlu <no...@chance.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm going to have to replace the timing belt on my Fiesta Zetec soon.
>> Haynes show a home-made tool for holding the crankshaft pulley while
>> you undo the bolt, but also mention a locking pin for retightening.
>> Now, I do have the locking pin (not just the timing pin). Could I also
>> use this while undoing the bolt, instead of having to make the other
>> tool? I'd have guessed you could, but I don't want to snap it into the
>> crankcase.
>>
>
> Well bend it, get it stuck & or time it up wrong cos you've knackered it
> You can end up applying a lot of welly to it.
because you want to keep the whole thing as close to TDC as possible
throughout the procedure (so that you don't have to turn the engine
while the valves aren't moving), and turning the bolt anticlockwise
against the pin would leave the engine in an unfavourable rotation once
the bolt had come out. I'd originally thought that the pins located in a
hole in the counterweights, but it seems that they just contact the side
of the web.
>> Also, why do they say to remove the cam sprockets? Does this mean that
>> there is no key on the crankshaft, and that since you are unlikely to
>> get the crankshaft sprocket back in the same position, you need to be
>> able to reset the camshaft sprockets more precisely?
>
> Yes, you'll want the tool. which is quite affordable
myself, I'll get one.
Duncan Wood
Aug 8, 2014, 6:51:05 PM8/8/14
to
> myself, I'll get one.
The locking tools occasionally turn up there as well.
Mike Tomlinson
Aug 9, 2014, 9:23:56 AM8/9/14
to
En el art�culo <ls2dc0$at2$2...@dont-email.me>, Chris Whelan <cawhelan@prej
udicentlworld.com> escribi�:
>I tried to warn a neighbour about how tricky engines with un-keyed
>crankshaft pulleys can be.
This is news to me. How do they get them right in the factory?
--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
udicentlworld.com> escribi�:
>I tried to warn a neighbour about how tricky engines with un-keyed
>crankshaft pulleys can be.
--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
Chris Whelan
Aug 9, 2014, 9:39:50 AM8/9/14
to
On Sat, 09 Aug 2014 14:23:56 +0100, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
> En el artículo <ls2dc0$at2$2...@dont-email.me>, Chris Whelan <cawhelan@prej
> udicentlworld.com> escribió:
right in the factory!
It's also easy to do 'in the field' as long as you follow the correct
procedure, and use the right tools.
> En el artículo <ls2dc0$at2$2...@dont-email.me>, Chris Whelan <cawhelan@prej
> udicentlworld.com> escribió:
>
>>I tried to warn a neighbour about how tricky engines with un-keyed
>>crankshaft pulleys can be.
>
>
> This is news to me. How do they get them right in the factory?
The whole point of keyless crank pulleys is that they *can* get them
>>I tried to warn a neighbour about how tricky engines with un-keyed
>>crankshaft pulleys can be.
>
>
> This is news to me. How do they get them right in the factory?
right in the factory!
It's also easy to do 'in the field' as long as you follow the correct
procedure, and use the right tools.
Mike Tomlinson
Aug 9, 2014, 9:56:01 AM8/9/14
to
En el art�culo <ls58b6$l4i$1...@dont-email.me>, Chris Whelan <cawhelan@prej
udicentlworld.com> escribi�:
>The whole point of keyless crank pulleys is that they *can* get them
>right in the factory!
Well, yeah, thanks for nothing. I was wondering how they do it, i.e.
what the manufacturing process is. Presumably they're at an advantage
because the engine is only partially built at the stage where the pulley
is aligned and fitted so it's easy to determine TDC, whereas someone
retrofitting a belt in the field doesn't have that advantage.
Get out of bed the wrong side this morning?
udicentlworld.com> escribi�:
>The whole point of keyless crank pulleys is that they *can* get them
>right in the factory!
what the manufacturing process is. Presumably they're at an advantage
because the engine is only partially built at the stage where the pulley
is aligned and fitted so it's easy to determine TDC, whereas someone
retrofitting a belt in the field doesn't have that advantage.
Get out of bed the wrong side this morning?
Chris Whelan
Aug 9, 2014, 9:59:01 AM8/9/14
to
On Fri, 08 Aug 2014 10:58:58 +0000, Chris Whelan wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Aug 2014 10:52:16 +0100, Etaoin Shrdlu wrote:
>
>> I'm going to have to replace the timing belt on my Fiesta Zetec soon.
>> Haynes show a home-made tool for holding the crankshaft pulley while
>> you undo the bolt, but also mention a locking pin for retightening.
>> Now, I do have the locking pin (not just the timing pin). Could I also
>> use this while undoing the bolt, instead of having to make the other
>> tool? I'd have guessed you could, but I don't want to snap it into the
>> crankcase.
>>
>> Also, why do they say to remove the cam sprockets? Does this mean that
>> there is no key on the crankshaft, and that since you are unlikely to
>> get the crankshaft sprocket back in the same position, you need to be
>> able to reset the camshaft sprockets more precisely?
>
> Year and engine size are always a help...
>
> However, on the basis that it's a Zetec *engine*, rather than trim
> level,
> the crankshaft pulley is *not* keyed.
>
> It is essential to use the correct tools and method when doing the cam-
> belt on these; if you get anything wrong, it will require a cylinder
> head rebuild as a minimum.
One further point; it is essential to use a new crankshaft bolt tightened
> On Fri, 08 Aug 2014 10:52:16 +0100, Etaoin Shrdlu wrote:
>
>> I'm going to have to replace the timing belt on my Fiesta Zetec soon.
>> Haynes show a home-made tool for holding the crankshaft pulley while
>> you undo the bolt, but also mention a locking pin for retightening.
>> Now, I do have the locking pin (not just the timing pin). Could I also
>> use this while undoing the bolt, instead of having to make the other
>> tool? I'd have guessed you could, but I don't want to snap it into the
>> crankcase.
>>
>> Also, why do they say to remove the cam sprockets? Does this mean that
>> there is no key on the crankshaft, and that since you are unlikely to
>> get the crankshaft sprocket back in the same position, you need to be
>> able to reset the camshaft sprockets more precisely?
>
> Year and engine size are always a help...
>
> However, on the basis that it's a Zetec *engine*, rather than trim
> level,
> the crankshaft pulley is *not* keyed.
>
> It is essential to use the correct tools and method when doing the cam-
> belt on these; if you get anything wrong, it will require a cylinder
> head rebuild as a minimum.
to the correct torque. There are two lengths, and again it is essential
to use the correct replacement.
Chris Whelan
Aug 9, 2014, 9:59:48 AM8/9/14
to
On Sat, 09 Aug 2014 14:56:01 +0100, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
[...]
> Get out of bed the wrong side this morning?
No. You?
[...]
> Get out of bed the wrong side this morning?
Mike Tomlinson
Aug 9, 2014, 10:50:10 AM8/9/14
to
En el art�culo <ls59gk$l4i$3...@dont-email.me>, Chris Whelan <cawhelan@prej
udicentlworld.com> escribi�:
>No
So you're grumpy all the time, then?
udicentlworld.com> escribi�:
>No
So you're grumpy all the time, then?
Chris Whelan
Aug 9, 2014, 11:03:32 AM8/9/14
to
On Sat, 09 Aug 2014 15:50:10 +0100, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
> En el artículo <ls59gk$l4i$3...@dont-email.me>, Chris Whelan <cawhelan@prej
> udicentlworld.com> escribió:
> En el artículo <ls59gk$l4i$3...@dont-email.me>, Chris Whelan <cawhelan@prej
> udicentlworld.com> escribió:
>
>>No
>
> So you're grumpy all the time, then?
Try to be.
>>No
>
> So you're grumpy all the time, then?
Etaoin Shrdlu
Aug 9, 2014, 2:44:11 PM8/9/14
to
car I would do it when I had a bit of time. It has a new tensioner, and
two bolts to choose from. Having a quick look at it today, though, once
I had the auxiliary belt off, I couldn't think of a way of getting the
crankcase bolt off. Haynes' photo shows a locking tool with two arms
sticking into holes in the pulley. Mine doesn't have any holes at all. I
have a locking pin for tightening it up (thicker than the timing pin)
that I might use to lock it while undoing it, but then the crank would
be so far away from TDC that I'm not sure I could get it all back into
position once the pulley comes off. Assuming I could even get it off
without breaking the pin.
Mrcheerful
Aug 9, 2014, 4:46:01 PM8/9/14
to
using a suitable large screwdriver in the flywheel teeth, or even a a
special tool that engages in the teeth (cheap tool from any good car
shop) Don't forget to renew the water pump and anti-freeze while you do
the job.
Etaoin Shrdlu
Aug 9, 2014, 5:35:52 PM8/9/14
to
so I'll probably leave that. Is locking the teeth achieved by sticking
something in near where the starter motor goes? Seems the obvious (even
the only) place to me, but I feel I ought to check.
Etaoin Shrdlu
Aug 9, 2014, 6:00:23 PM8/9/14
to
Mrcheerful
Aug 9, 2014, 6:20:54 PM8/9/14
to
shaft. The car needs to be raised and very secure and a seriously long
breaker bar is needed to undo the crank bolt.
Mrcheerful
Aug 9, 2014, 6:25:41 PM8/9/14
to
screwdriver into a proper locking tool by welding a ridge along one side
and grinding it till it went nicely into a flywheel tooth, slight bend
in the shaft to clear something and a couple of taps to set it in place
and it was well fixed for undoing the bolt. In the past I have just
used a large driver in there, but you ideally need someone else to hold
it in position while you struggle with the crank bolt.
Duncan Wood
Aug 10, 2014, 8:50:06 AM8/10/14
to
On Sat, 09 Aug 2014 14:56:01 +0100, Mike Tomlinson <mi...@jasper.org.uk>
wrote:
> En el artículo <ls58b6$l4i$1...@dont-email.me>, Chris Whelan <cawhelan@prej
> udicentlworld.com> escribió:
wrote:
> En el artículo <ls58b6$l4i$1...@dont-email.me>, Chris Whelan <cawhelan@prej
> udicentlworld.com> escribió:
>
>> The whole point of keyless crank pulleys is that they *can* get them
>> right in the factory!
>
> Well, yeah, thanks for nothing. I was wondering how they do it, i.e.
> what the manufacturing process is. Presumably they're at an advantage
> because the engine is only partially built at the stage where the pulley
> is aligned and fitted so it's easy to determine TDC, whereas someone
> retrofitting a belt in the field doesn't have that advantage.
>
One assumes that they may also have a set of the alignment tools.
>> The whole point of keyless crank pulleys is that they *can* get them
>> right in the factory!
>
> Well, yeah, thanks for nothing. I was wondering how they do it, i.e.
> what the manufacturing process is. Presumably they're at an advantage
> because the engine is only partially built at the stage where the pulley
> is aligned and fitted so it's easy to determine TDC, whereas someone
> retrofitting a belt in the field doesn't have that advantage.
>
Etaoin Shrdlu
Aug 10, 2014, 11:27:12 AM8/10/14
to
Duncan Wood wrote:
> On Sat, 09 Aug 2014 14:56:01 +0100, Mike Tomlinson <mi...@jasper.org.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> En el artï¿œculo <ls58b6$l4i$1...@dont-email.me>, Chris Whelan <cawhelan@prej
> On Sat, 09 Aug 2014 14:56:01 +0100, Mike Tomlinson <mi...@jasper.org.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> udicentlworld.com> escribiￜ:
>>
>>> The whole point of keyless crank pulleys is that they *can* get them
>>> right in the factory!
>>
>> Well, yeah, thanks for nothing. I was wondering how they do it, i.e.
>> what the manufacturing process is. Presumably they're at an advantage
>> because the engine is only partially built at the stage where the pulley
>> is aligned and fitted so it's easy to determine TDC, whereas someone
>> retrofitting a belt in the field doesn't have that advantage.
>>
>
>
> One assumes that they may also have a set of the alignment tools.
I have the alignment tools, although this amounts to no more than a 5mm
>>> The whole point of keyless crank pulleys is that they *can* get them
>>> right in the factory!
>>
>> Well, yeah, thanks for nothing. I was wondering how they do it, i.e.
>> what the manufacturing process is. Presumably they're at an advantage
>> because the engine is only partially built at the stage where the pulley
>> is aligned and fitted so it's easy to determine TDC, whereas someone
>> retrofitting a belt in the field doesn't have that advantage.
>>
>
>
> One assumes that they may also have a set of the alignment tools.
pin to locate TDC, and a steel bar that fits through two slots at the
rear of the crankshaft and needs to be level with the rocker box mating
surface.
Mathew Newton
Aug 28, 2014, 4:57:57 PM8/28/14
to
On Friday, 8 August 2014 10:52:16 UTC+1, Etaoin Shrdlu wrote:
> Now, I
> do have the locking pin (not just the timing pin). Could I also use this
> while undoing the bolt, instead of having to make the other tool? I'd
> have guessed you could, but I don't want to snap it into the crankcase.
Just in case you are yet to try this let me me tell you - don't do it! The locking pin anchors the crank via an extrusion in such a way (angle) that all the subsequent force is compression (and resisted by the threads). To use it anchor the crank would apply the force laterally and almost certainly end up bending/snapping it. I read a lengthy thread on a Ford forum about the consequences of this and with the bottom of the engine removed it became evident why/how it had happened.
> Now, I
> do have the locking pin (not just the timing pin). Could I also use this
> while undoing the bolt, instead of having to make the other tool? I'd
> have guessed you could, but I don't want to snap it into the crankcase.
My first ever timing belt swap was a Fiesta (1.25) and it's perfectly doable. Just take your time. My only issue was the force required to remove the crank bolt - I ended up having to cut into it to help ease the tension before then whacking it off with an impact wrench. It felt like a nightmare at the time but if it happened again now I'd be as relaxed about it as anything.
Mathew
Mathew Newton
Aug 28, 2014, 5:03:06 PM8/28/14
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On Thursday, 28 August 2014 21:57:57 UTC+1, Mathew Newton wrote:
> To use it anchor the crank would apply the force laterally and
> almost certainly end up bending/snapping it.
Sorry, should've proofread my post - meant to say:
> To use it anchor the crank would apply the force laterally and
> almost certainly end up bending/snapping it.
'To use it *to anchor the crank to undo the pulley* would apply the force laterally and almost certainly end up bending/snapping it.'
Etaoin Shrdlu
Sep 8, 2014, 5:34:31 AM9/8/14
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tool, which made the whole thing much easier. By leaving it at TDC, and
leaving the camshaft locking bar in place while gently nipping up the
crank bolt (removing it for the real tightening up), I was able to get
away with not undoing the camshaft bolts at all. I checked that
everything's lined up after tightening the crank, and it's all good.
But it took all afternoon to do. Just getting the starter motor off (for
the locking tool) is a pain (although not as bad as when I did my
sister's Meriva). And having to remove the right-hand engine mount
(engine resting on some old speakers) to remove it just seems perverse.
I wasn't even sure I'd get the crank bolt off. If the flats in the
socket had stripped instead, I would not have been surprised.
Only thing I'm worried about is that there was no way I could get the 90
degree angle tightness on it. It seems completely solid at about 60
degrees. No amount of pushing seems able to shift it, and everything's
just bending unpleasantly instead of turning. I'll revist it soon,
though, and your information about the locking pin helps.
First one I did was a Capri, which was a walk in the park compared to this.
Mrcheerful
Sep 8, 2014, 5:51:29 AM9/8/14
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to do it properly. I don't actually know how you can get the right
tightness on the crank bolt UNLESS you have the car in the air (on a
lift) and use a breaker bar with a scaffold tube. I would not attempt
it using a standard socket either, you need either 3/4 drive or impact
1/2. As for 2 litre capri, they seemed complex when they first came
out, and I often had to redo the job when someone else had failed,
usually because they had not timed the distributor as well !! Now they
would seem so easy, although I have not changed a Pinto belt for well
over ten years now, I could do it in the dark with minimal tools (about
4) and a torch !
Etaoin Shrdlu
Sep 8, 2014, 6:53:05 AM9/8/14
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out of plastic, and show this horrible tool stuck into holes to hold it
still. Although, there's a hexagonal section on the shaft itself that
looks like it might help, assuming that the wheel doesn't turn as you
tighten the bolt. But the camshaft timing bar still slides in place
easily enough, so I'm happy with it as it is.
> I don't actually know how you can get the right
> tightness on the crank bolt UNLESS you have the car in the air (on a
> lift) and use a breaker bar with a scaffold tube. I would not attempt
didn't try sacrificing a 12 pointer on it) doesn't help, when trying to
find space to turn. I ended up doing it through the wheel arch with said
scaffolding tube (the most useful thing I've ever dug up in the garden)
and a long extension supported on an axle stand. The whole thing
was bending badly, and bouncing back, so I just stopped. But yes, I'll
try again with a 3/4" set. From what Matthew Newton says, I think I'll
be safe using the thick black locking pin when tightening, rather than
fight with the starter motor again.
> it using a standard socket either, you need either 3/4 drive or impact
> 1/2. As for 2 litre capri, they seemed complex when they first came
> out, and I often had to redo the job when someone else had failed,
> usually because they had not timed the distributor as well !! Now they
> would seem so easy, although I have not changed a Pinto belt for well
> over ten years now, I could do it in the dark with minimal tools (about
> 4) and a torch !
mum and dad's house. Just made a sort of raspberry noise. We got the AA
man to take us to mum and dad's, rather than back home, and I did it in
the road outside. We had a spare belt in the boot, since I'd planned to
do it soon. It seemed like all you needed was a 1/2" AF spanner.
Mrcheerful
Sep 8, 2014, 7:47:45 AM9/8/14
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the tensioner and distributor, 19mm for the crank pulley 17mm ? for the
cam are all I can remember needing, plus a strobe for retiming it
properly afterwards.
Chris Whelan
Sep 8, 2014, 8:18:27 AM9/8/14
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On Mon, 08 Sep 2014 10:34:31 +0100, Etaoin Shrdlu wrote:
[...]
[...]
> First one I did was a Capri, which was a walk in the park compared to
> this.
But you would have done the Capri one three times before the Fiesta one
> this.
was due to be changed, so over the vehicle lifetime the costs would be
similar.
Etaoin Shrdlu
Sep 8, 2014, 8:23:20 AM9/8/14
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for about �25, which made a nice noise. I've no idea if it actually made
it any faster. It certainly used to throw petrol in when you put your
foot down. The car got stolen, and it was found in Speke, having caught
fire. The brass petrol pipe had come out of the top of the float bowl,
and presumably pumped petrol everywhere. I can only assume it had been
thrashed so much, the petrol pump pressure pushed it out.
Anyway, I'm going to get an impact driver for the crankshaft, and see if
I can get it tighter. I found a mains-powered one with good reviews from
people who have used it specifically on crank pulleys. I'm not sure how
I've managed so long without one.
Etaoin Shrdlu
Sep 8, 2014, 8:36:15 AM9/8/14
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least there was no doubt that I'd actually manage it. With the Fiesta
there were really moments when I thought I'd not be able to do it. When
it finally falls apart, I'll definitely be looking for something with a
bit more room to work. But not so big that it's a pig to park. Or drive
down those tiny roads in the Lake District.
Mrcheerful
Sep 8, 2014, 10:11:34 AM9/8/14
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affordable impact wrench.
Etaoin Shrdlu
Sep 8, 2014, 10:47:32 AM9/8/14
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be able to tighten it, too. What sort of torque do you reckon 40Nm +
90deg would be?
Mrcheerful
Sep 8, 2014, 11:54:06 AM9/8/14
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scaffold pole and considerable effort, I would hazard a guess at
somewhere in the mid 1500 lb ft area or 1100 nm. Even a high powered
air wrench is only around 600 lbft and cannot undo crank bolts or wheel
nuts in all cases.
Etaoin Shrdlu
Sep 8, 2014, 12:23:09 PM9/8/14
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everything was bending with just a little effort :-) It's not that I
couldn't push any harder, just that things were looking a bit too bendy
for my liking. I'm going to have to give it some more thought - I find
that running these things over in the mind helps a lot. It may simply be
that investing in some 3/4" drive stuff is the best way to go.
Mrcheerful
Sep 8, 2014, 12:51:19 PM9/8/14
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bar) you are introducing a massive twisting possibility. You need the
twisting point (the end of the breaker bar) as close as possible to the
bolt in question, even using a longer socket can introduce problems.
Certainly things would be improved with 3/4, but it would still be
better to get as close as possible.
Etaoin Shrdlu
Sep 8, 2014, 1:17:31 PM9/8/14
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having 6 points in the socket to play with, I couldn't find a good
position when tightening. Only later did it occur to me that I could
have used the flywheel locking tool to rotate it into a better position.
But having to fiddle about getting the starter off means that's a
weekend job.
Peter Hill
Sep 8, 2014, 1:22:56 PM9/8/14
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On 08/09/2014 17:51, Mrcheerful wrote:
> I would hazard a guess at somewhere in the mid 1500 lb ft area or
> 1100 nm.
> I would hazard a guess at somewhere in the mid 1500 lb ft area or
> 1100 nm.
> By moving the torque point away from the bolt (by using an extension
> bar) you are introducing a massive twisting possibility. You need the
> twisting point (the end of the breaker bar) as close as possible to the
> bolt in question, even using a longer socket can introduce problems.
> Certainly things would be improved with 3/4, but it would still be
> better to get as close as possible.
That needs a lot of clearance under the car. Which makes it a
> bar) you are introducing a massive twisting possibility. You need the
> twisting point (the end of the breaker bar) as close as possible to the
> bolt in question, even using a longer socket can introduce problems.
> Certainly things would be improved with 3/4, but it would still be
> better to get as close as possible.
professional job as few DIYers have a lift.
With that torque you could feasibly have it off a 2 post lift.
FWD 60/40 bias, 2.5m wheelbase. The CofG is 1m behind the front axle. If
the front lift arm pads are 1/2 way between front axle and the CofG
(0.5m behind axle) then 1100Nm will lift a car weighing 2200Kg off the
rear pads.
--
Peter Hill
replace nospam with domain host name to reply
Mrcheerful
Sep 8, 2014, 2:23:56 PM9/8/14
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90 degrees on the ratchet handle, that gives you the spacing you would
have on a 12 sided socket.
Etaoin Shrdlu
Sep 8, 2014, 2:50:34 PM9/8/14
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time.
Chris Whelan
Sep 8, 2014, 4:40:33 PM9/8/14
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On Mon, 08 Sep 2014 19:50:34 +0100, Etaoin Shrdlu wrote:
[user-friendly snippage]
> Agh! Of course. That must be the most useful thing I've heard in a long
> time.
+1
[user-friendly snippage]
> Agh! Of course. That must be the most useful thing I've heard in a long
> time.
Mrcheerful
Sep 8, 2014, 4:46:57 PM9/8/14
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the edge of the front discs, so there is little danger of lifting the
back end. The Focus I did the other day certainly did not move
noticeably, despite me pulling in the right direction to do so on the
end of a 4ft scaffold pole. Anyway, that was why I was saying it is
hard to envisage how an amateur at home can get those type of crank
bolts done up properly.
Etaoin Shrdlu
Sep 13, 2014, 8:08:04 AM9/13/14
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added to what I already managed previously) I'm happy with. 1mtr breaker
bar with two extensions resting on an axle stand going in via the wheel
arch. Lots of moderate bouncing up and down, but trying to avoid
breaking anything. I managed to only break one small socket extension,
and that was a weak design, since it had a waist under the business end
to allow a bit of wobble.
I think the most useful thing I need to get now would be a 3/4" drive
socket set. I don't think it would have been at all difficult with that.
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