2001 Corsa brake fluid loss?

[T i m]

Hi All,

The other day daughter and her b/f mentioned the brake warning light
had come on occasionally and long - short I noted the brake fluid was
down on minimum. Topped it up, light says out and I thought it might
have just been the general consumption of fluid down to pad wear (we
knew they were getting close).

This morning I took him to work ain the Corsa and noted the brake
warning light was back on and again the fluid was down to the minimum.

So, we have a leak somewhere and because it's too wet (and cold) to
see much under there in the road I wondered if there were any unusual
things on the Corsa C that wouldn't be easy to spot (like master
cylinder seals on a Morris Minor, when the cylinder is in the chassis
member). ;-)

My guess could be rear brake cylinder (it's not the o/s front caliper
as we had the wheel off to check the pads over the weekend) unless a
pipe / hose is leaking somewhere. I guess if the cylinders are out
further than normal (very worn pads, one *just* starting to touch the
lip on the disk) it could be the n/s caliper seal?

We have a new set of disks and pads and I was going to change them
today but what with the snow, no garage and then the fluid loss I
though I'd stick it into my mates this week sometime.

We'll hopefully find out soon enough but I'd though I'd ask here as
well etc.

Cheers, T i m

[Mrcheerful]

highest on the list of suspects is rear cylinders. leaking caliper is about
the last on the list.

[T i m]

On Mon, 11 Feb 2013 18:43:23 -0000, "Mrcheerful"
<g.odon...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:


>> My guess could be rear brake cylinder (it's not the o/s front caliper
>> as we had the wheel off to check the pads over the weekend) unless a
>> pipe / hose is leaking somewhere. I guess if the cylinders are out
>> further than normal (very worn pads, one *just* starting to touch the
>> lip on the disk) it could be the n/s caliper seal?

>

>highest on the list of suspects is rear cylinders.

Ok.

> leaking caliper is about
>the last on the list.

And ok (thanks).

If it helps point the finger I tried the handbrake while driving this
morning and it was pretty ineffectual (but balanced, so I thought the
odds of it being both sides leaking would be pretty slim) but not
really knowing the vehicle I didn't know if it was 'typical' or not.

The handbrake does seem to have quite a bit of movement before it
bites but when it does the action is pretty solid (albeit not doing
much etc).

The MOT before last (when it was owned by daughters, b/f's Dad (from
new)) I think it needed a new brake drum (175K miles) but as they
were going to sell it (and didn't think it would be to us) I think
they only changed one (and I doubt it was a new one at that).

This was the garage that sent the car of with 3 tyres of one size ...

Cheers, T i m

[Chris Bartram]

On 11/02/13 20:29, T i m wrote:

> If it helps point the finger I tried the handbrake while driving this
> morning and it was pretty ineffectual (but balanced, so I thought the
> odds of it being both sides leaking would be pretty slim)

I had both rear cylinders fail pretty much together on a Mk1 Golf.

[shazzbat]

"T i m" <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote in message
news:hj9ih8512nta0ur1b...@4ax.com...

To be losing that much fluid that quickly is major. I would suggest checking
whether it's coming out of the master cyl and running down the pedal/behind
the carpet. Also could be being sucked into the servo (Is it directly
connected on the corsa? I think so) This can be found by filling up in the
evening, and checking the level again in the morning.

If it is coming out of the rear cyls, then you will effectively have no rear
brakes now, and I would expect to see fluid on the bottom edges of the
drums.

I would call this car VOR until the leak is sorted, or it could easily be
catastrophic.

Steve

[T i m]

On Mon, 11 Feb 2013 21:39:12 -0000, "shazzbat"
<shaz...@spamlessness.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:


>To be losing that much fluid that quickly is major. I would suggest checking
>whether it's coming out of the master cyl and running down the pedal/behind
>the carpet. Also could be being sucked into the servo (Is it directly
>connected on the corsa? I think so) This can be found by filling up in the
>evening, and checking the level again in the morning.
>
>If it is coming out of the rear cyls, then you will effectively have no rear
>brakes now, and I would expect to see fluid on the bottom edges of the
>drums.

When I tested the handbrake when on the move it had little impact but
at the same time didn't 'pull' either side, suggesting whatever it was
it might be both sides.

Now it's dried out a bit out there I've managed to have a quick look
and the bottom of the n/s rear wheel looks like it's got a nice layer
of brake fluid over it. ;-(

>
>I would call this car VOR until the leak is sorted, or it could easily be
>catastrophic.

Quite and why the car hasn't been touched since and we took the kids
to work this morning.

When I first noticed the low brake fluid level maybe 10 days ago it
coincided with them reporting an occasional 'squeak' from the o/s
front (disk). When this happened previously and we took the wheel off
to check we found plenty of frictionable material and it was suggested
that some aftermarket pads can do that and some pads come with beveled
edges to prevent such? So, because they haven't done that many miles
since then, I was slightly suspicious of this new (reported) 'squeak'
being anything more. However, when the squeak turned into more of a
graunching noise I then suspected pads. This sorta (potentially)
explained why the fluid might be low as I don't have any history with
Corsas to know if at 170+K miles things (drums, shoes + pads, disks)
might have sufficient wear to cause am otherwise leak-free system to
show 'low' on the reservoir. That or a piston on the extreme end of
it's travel (again, exaggerated by wear) might allow a rusty / worn /
scratched bit to enter the zone of the seals?

Anyway, it looks like it *is* the rear brake cylinder (as suspected
by all of us <g>) so now it's gonna need a set of shoes and pair of
cylinders possibly a pair of drums if they are particularly worn. It
looks like you can get the complete kit for under 100 quid (on eBay)
and that's not much considering how little she paid for the car in the
first place and how much she likes it. ;-)

Of course there is a very good chance that a new set of disks and pads
would outlast the car ... and even more so with new drums etc but
brakes aren't something (of all things) I would normally take
liberties with ...

Cheers, T i m

p.s. Am I right that a 2001 1.2 16v 'Comfort' 5 door could have ally
or cast iron rear cylinders?

[T i m]

Oooerer, what are the chances eh?

I could see how you might have one side start to 'weep' and then you
have the other side fail more blatantly so when you check both you see
both sides failed as such?

As I mentioned elsewhere it now looks pretty clear it's the n/s rear
and I would always do both sides in any case (unless there was a good
reason not to ... like I was only going to then drive it to the scrap
yard ...) ;-(

Cheers, T i m

[Mrcheerful]

I once had a capri 2.8 come in to me for some engine work, while I was
underneath I noticed that one steel pipe to a rear brake had been cut and
crimped. the owner said it had been like that for ages because that side
had started to leak brake fluid.

[T i m]

On Tue, 12 Feb 2013 15:50:47 -0000, "Mrcheerful"
<g.odon...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:


>> p.s. Am I right that a 2001 1.2 16v 'Comfort' 5 door could have ally
>> or cast iron rear cylinders?
>
>I once had a capri 2.8 come in to me for some engine work, while I was
>underneath I noticed that one steel pipe to a rear brake had been cut and
>crimped. the owner said it had been like that for ages because that side
>had started to leak brake fluid.
>

No!

That's why I don't mind something that has just been un-loved, rather
than worked on by someone who doesn't have a clue (or care).

Cheers, T i m

[Mrcheerful]

I have seen both types of cylinder, often aftermarket replacements are
alloy. It really doesn't matter, only the bore size is important.
(obviously they must be of the right general design)

[T i m]

On Tue, 12 Feb 2013 18:01:27 -0000, "Mrcheerful"
<g.odon...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:


>> That's why I don't mind something that has just been un-loved, rather
>> than worked on by someone who doesn't have a clue (or care).
>>
>

>I have seen both types of cylinder, often aftermarket replacements are
>alloy. It really doesn't matter, only the bore size is important.
>(obviously they must be of the right general design)
>

I think the ones that were on there were ally and the replacements
were cast iron.

But doing the job today, (disks and pads, shoes and cylinders and an
oil and filter) demonstrated this thing about following up after
people who may not be as vigilant as me / some.

Like, the o/s brake pads were down to the metal and the n/s looked
only (tops) a third worn? Unless I'm mistaken, it would seem someone
changed the pads on one side (only) at some time?

I had the option of doing similar on the rear with the cylinders. The
shoes some in a set of 4 but the cylinders come individually but I did
both sides 'because'.

Son-in-law to be was helping (he is interested in learning all this
stuff) and spotted (whilst cleaning) the o/s handbrake brake cable end
was frayed inside the return spring so we were able to replace that at
the same time (saving failure / time in the future).

Same logic re also changing the water pump when changing a cam belt
and roller kit etc.

As it happens, both rear cylinder bleed nipples sheared off (I didn't
try very hard to release them etc) so we would have been in for new
cylinders if we had wanted to change the brake fluid (something else
that may not have ever been done).

This is the car we got with 3 tyres of one size and one of something
else (and we fitted with a set of 4 new Avons when daughter bought
it).

Anyway, they have gone out in it tonight with him driving so they can
bed the brakes in a bit ready for her to use it for work tomorrow.

I do have a question though. My mate in the garage suggested he has
seen little star washers retaining the self adjuster 'tang' on the
roll pin that is fitted though the shoe?

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/5772409/Corsa%20C%20ns%20rear..jpg


(over the peg just to the left of where it says 'S 50009' top left on
the photo).

The tang does seem to be held down by the ratchet adjuster but I can
see why a retainer would make the system a bit more positive (FWTAW in
the first place etc).

Cheers, T i m

[Mrcheerful]

> Cheers, T i m#

No, that does not have anything extra on it.

[T i m]

On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 20:13:08 -0000, "Mrcheerful"
<g.odon...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:


>> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/5772409/Corsa%20C%20ns%20rear..jpg
>>
>>
>> (over the peg just to the left of where it says 'S 50009' top left on
>> the photo).
>>
>> The tang does seem to be held down by the ratchet adjuster but I can
>> see why a retainer would make the system a bit more positive (FWTAW in
>> the first place etc).
>>
>

>No, that does not have anything extra on it.
>

Thanks Mr C. ;-)

Cheers, T i m