Boy racers
Krycek
power it all? Surely a standard alternator would give up the ghost at all
that load?
--
Mark
'01 Aprilia RS50 Race Bike #71
'94 RVF400RR - http://www.400greybike.co.uk
'96 Mk I Mondiablo 1.8TD
BONY #63
Darren Jarvis
> power it all? Surely a standard alternator would give up the ghost at all
> that load?
The TV/DVD/PS won't take that much but a beefy amp will. They'll probably
be fine during the day (most alternators give out 70+ amps at the revs
they'll be giving them), though if they also like to have their front fogs
on, etc. then come winter they may well need to boost charge the battery
each week. The alternator won't die from a high load unless it can't get
enough cooling (because the battery will supply any extra current needed).
Darren
G-Man
"Krycek" <no...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:Oyrae.2125$395...@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net...
> In car TV's, Playstations, DVD's, and a really loud radio..... How do they
> power it all? Surely a standard alternator would give up the ghost at all
> that load?
Not sure - but a guy up the hill from me who runs 2x1200w amps, a PS2, 2 TFT
screens and a PC has managed to fabricate a method of installing a secondary
alternator in his 1.4 Corsa. I must admire it for the sheer genius - even if
the car does look wank.
Ta,
G.
Guy King
from "Krycek" <no...@ntlworld.com> contains these words:
> In car TV's, Playstations, DVD's, and a really loud radio..... How do they
> power it all? Surely a standard alternator would give up the ghost at all
> that load?
Nah - even an elderly car can be expected to have a 70 amp alternator -
those on modern cars are considerably more powerful. This allows the
battery to be recharged very quickly after starting - having loads of
gizmos just delays this slightly. Not by much though - and you rarely
hear of people actually using more than the 1.2kW a 100A alternator
could put out if it had to.
--
Skipweasel.
Ivor Cutler - "Never knowingly understood."
petermcm...@yahoo.com
Krycek wrote:
> In car TV's, Playstations, DVD's, and a really loud radio..... How do
they
> power it all? Surely a standard alternator would give up the ghost at
all
> that load?
Dunno, but in the past I've seen some massive capacitors in Maplin for
this thing. I think they were one Farad! Massive things with an LCD
on top to indicate the charge level. It looks kinda cool, but I
suppose a better use would be to wire it up to stop theives :-D. Of
course, the alternator would still need to charge these, but with the
revs they get it shouldn't be a problem.
It really doesn't make sense to me though, I never use my stereo!
Guy King
from "G-Man" <tes...@magaff.co.uk> contains these words:
> Not sure - but a guy up the hill from me who runs 2x1200w amps,
Of course - the chances of them actually drawing 2400 kW for more than a
split second is minimal - and something the battery is well suited to
serve anwyay.
Duncan Wood
It doesn't make any sense compared with a thicker feed from the battery
but welcome to world of hifi.
Johannes
Yes, I've seen those one Farad's at Maplin, but it's for slightly different
usage. The has to be a capacitor between the Amp and the speaker to shield
the speakers from DC current. But the larger capacitor, the more AC current
burst can be transferred at bass notes. bim bom boom b0OOM BOOOM BOOOOOM!!!
Chris Whelan
> In car TV's, Playstations, DVD's, and a really loud radio..... How do they
> power it all? Surely a standard alternator would give up the ghost at all
> that load?
>
sign of things to come the V10 Volkswagen Touareg has an
alternator rated at 190 Amps continuous, 300 Amps short term.
Oh, it's water cooled and driven via a 2-speed gearbox so that
output can be boosted at low engine revs....
Chris
--
Remove prejudice to reply
Mad Ad
"Johannes" <jo...@spamblock3sizefitter.com> wrote in message
news:426A5A9D...@spamblock3sizefitter.com...
That's the guise they are sold under and with schoolboy electronic theory it
may seem like it should work that way, however after much reading on the
issue (in many long and well debated threads) I'm not convinced that at 1F,
its anything but snake oil and a waste of money as far as operation goes (a
bit like grounding kits, lolol).... however it looks techie and spinkee
especially with the readout so if you've money to burn, get some for the
looks alone but don't expect to hear the difference.
Ad
petermcm...@yahoo.com
Mad Ad wrote:
>
> That's the guise they are sold under and with schoolboy electronic
theory it
> may seem like it should work that way, however after much reading on
the
> issue (in many long and well debated threads) I'm not convinced that
at 1F,
> its anything but snake oil and a waste of money as far as operation
goes (a
> bit like grounding kits, lolol).... however it looks techie and
spinkee
> especially with the readout so if you've money to burn, get some for
the
> looks alone but don't expect to hear the difference.
Dunno, in electronics capactiors are quite often used to 'smooth'
things, such as an unstable input. Having said that a few micro farads
is usually enough lol. They probably are more for smoothing the
current rather than maintaining the current though. It'd still be nice
to see a Chav wired up to one though :-)
DervMan
> power it all? Surely a standard alternator would give up the ghost at all
> that load?
Nah. Taking the Ka as an example, it either has a 70A or 90A alternator as
standard.
--
The DervMan
www.dervman.com
Guy King
from Chris Street <venus...@chris-street.demon.co.uk> contains these words:
> > Of course - the chances of them actually drawing 2400 kW for more than a
> > split second is minimal - and something the battery is well suited to
> > serve anwyay.
> Even so it will probably be a 1200W PMPO amp which is only 400W rMS which
> is what the alterator measures things in.
Exactly. That's what I meant by "not for more than a split second".
Johannes
I don't quite fancy being referred to as "schoolboy electronic theory", I
think I've bit more experienced than that. If you buy an amp, the capacitor
in the output stage is already in the amp. I think the large capacitor is
intended for those who actually build the amp e.g. from a kit. It was some
years ago since I did this, and then there was no such thing as 1.0 Farad;
it was considered a ridiculous size and unobtainable. These days, however,
kids can assemble a 1KW -2KW amp for less than a weeks salary. An oik
about 5 houses away can make my walls move with his car stereo! However,
I would be worried about frying the speaker coils.
Mark W
"Chris Whelan" <cawh...@prejudicentlworld.com> wrote in message
news:SZsae.3268$RX....@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...
Now that is ingenious. Next thing they'll announce an electrically-driven
alternator.
petermcm...@yahoo.com
Johannes wrote:
>
> I don't quite fancy being referred to as "schoolboy electronic
theory", I
> think I've bit more experienced than that. If you buy an amp, the
capacitor
> in the output stage is already in the amp. I think the large
capacitor is
> intended for those who actually build the amp e.g. from a kit. It was
some
> years ago since I did this, and then there was no such thing as 1.0
Farad;
> it was considered a ridiculous size and unobtainable. These days,
however,
> kids can assemble a 1KW -2KW amp for less than a weeks salary. An oik
> about 5 houses away can make my walls move with his car stereo!
However,
> I would be worried about frying the speaker coils.
I can't remember the exact description, but I got the impression that
it was just for a normal amp. The 1 Farad capacitor was £100, which
is a ridiculous amount of money!
Depresion
> power it all? Surely a standard alternator would give up the ghost at all
> that load?
In car screens don't take much power and the same can be said for PS2's/XBOXs
and GameCubes even a lour radio can be run from a single decent amp (say 80W RMS
per channel and 6 channels isn't going to put a strain on anything made in the
last 20 years or so.) I may have some problems with a Type 2 camper should I
stick a nice 20" flat panel or 2 in it as the alternators aren't up to much by
today's standard.
Johannes
Actually it's £39.99 from Maplin at the moment, but still money though.
David Taylor
> The message <A4sae.18082$G8....@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
> from "G-Man" <tes...@magaff.co.uk> contains these words:
>
>> Not sure - but a guy up the hill from me who runs 2x1200w amps,
>
> Of course - the chances of them actually drawing 2400 kW for more than a
> split second is minimal - and something the battery is well suited to
> serve anwyay.
I'd pay to see someone with a 2.4MW amp. But only from a safe distance.
--
David Taylor
Colin Stamp
<jo...@spamblock3sizefitter.com> wrote:
>
>I don't quite fancy being referred to as "schoolboy electronic theory", I
>think I've bit more experienced than that. If you buy an amp, the capacitor
>in the output stage is already in the amp. I think the large capacitor is
>intended for those who actually build the amp e.g. from a kit. It was some
>years ago since I did this, and then there was no such thing as 1.0 Farad;
>it was considered a ridiculous size and unobtainable.
Nope. They aren't sold for that. You are meant to connect it straight
across the power supply to the amp, supposedly to decrease the
impedance and make up a bit for the resistance of the cables, battery,
etc.
Car amps tend to either have bridged output stages, or split internal
supply rails. neither of which have output capacitors.
Cheers,
Colin.
Johannes
Oh, always something to learn.
Dave Stanton
> Car amps tend to either have bridged output stages, or split internal
> supply rails. neither of which have output capacitors.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Colin.
Correct, if it was a single ended output stage, you would not get the high
power that you can from above versions.
Dave
--
For what we are about to balls up may common sense prevent us doing it
again
in the future!!
Chris Whelan
LOL!
They already exist outside of the car world of course.
Guy King
from "David Taylor" <david...@yadt.co.uk> contains these words:
> > Of course - the chances of them actually drawing 2400 kW for more than a
> > split second is minimal - and something the battery is well suited to
> > serve anwyay.
> I'd pay to see someone with a 2.4MW amp. But only from a safe distance.
Oops! Sounds like something Hotblack Desiato would need.
Guy King
from Chris Whelan <cawh...@prejudicentlworld.com> contains these words:
> They already exist outside of the car world of course.
Ah, yes, rotary converters. Fun toys.
R. Murphy
also would do set-ups. Got chatting to their engineer and, of course, if you
have say a 400 watt amp then you do need something special to power it all -
things like more powerful generators, wiring to take the load (and fuses to
go with it of course!) devices to stop you flattening the battery (which
would not take long!) etc etc etc.
This power does come at a price - not to mention broken eardrums (pressure),
cars falling to bits (wall-of-Jericho syndrome and all of that!)
"Krycek" <no...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:Oyrae.2125$395...@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net...
> In car TV's, Playstations, DVD's, and a really loud radio..... How do they
> power it all? Surely a standard alternator would give up the ghost at all
> that load?
>
> --
> Mark
>
> '01 Aprilia RS50 Race Bike #71
> '94 RVF400RR - http://www.400greybike.co.uk
> '96 Mk I Mondiablo 1.8TD
>
> BONY #63
>
>
Stuffed
"Guy King" <guy....@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3130303034323...@zetnet.co.uk...
Define elderly - My current car has all of 45A from the spinny bit. Might
even be 40, I can't remember exactly which Lucas model is fitted right now.
And I only recently stopped using a car with a good old dynamo thingy! That
was quite scary, had an ammeter, which you could see dive into the oh dear
markings ticking over at night.
Of course, the current car's only bow to luxury is an autostop tape deck
with 3 band radio, so it just about copes powering that beast of a system ;)
Depresion
"R. Murphy" <new...@murphy9100.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:d4e9ni$lep$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Used to work for a company that imported and distributed this stuff, and also
> would do set-ups. Got chatting to their engineer and, of course, if you have
> say a 400 watt amp then you do need something special to power it all - things
> like more powerful generators, wiring to take the load (and fuses to go with
> it of course!) devices to stop you flattening the battery (which would not
> take long!) etc etc etc.
All of those bits they would sell to you at a good price no doubt. If it's
raining and there's a GP on I have been known to sit in the car and watch TV for
a couple of hours at a show and have yet to have a single problems with running
the battery down due to it.
Mad Ad
No offense meant johannes, wasnt aiming directly at you .... regarding
smoothing capacitors you obviously have circuit building experience however
I think these days few build their own amps anymore, that kinda died out
with the advent of cheap mass produced mosfet amps (at least not for
cars -its more the domain of djs still) and consequently the 1F is treated
more like a flashy addon for those that have the cash to splash but when
asked, they rely on basic schoolboy electronic theory of charge storing to
justify their purchases, when cornered usually admit that they notice no
difference in the sound delivery and their lights still dim. Googling for
combinations of "1Farad", car, amplifier, audio, etc will soon enough bring
up some of the debates but the expert opinion seems to be the internal
resistance of these 'small' units are too high to be of any use, but still
people fit them because their mates have and its only 40 quid. Ahh the
youth of today and their disposable income :-)
Now if we talk about say a collection of 15F c.a.p.s, delivering a big punch
for a single tone over a few seconds in SPL competitions then that's a
different matter. :-D
Ad
Mike G
"Colin Stamp" <col.d...@stamp.plus.com> wrote in message
news:kb0l61plmub4jjnl3...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 16:02:39 GMT, Johannes
> <jo...@spamblock3sizefitter.com> wrote:
>
>
> >
> >I don't quite fancy being referred to as "schoolboy electronic theory", I
> >think I've bit more experienced than that. If you buy an amp, the
capacitor
> >in the output stage is already in the amp. I think the large capacitor is
> >intended for those who actually build the amp e.g. from a kit. It was
some
> >years ago since I did this, and then there was no such thing as 1.0
Farad;
> >it was considered a ridiculous size and unobtainable.
>
> Nope. They aren't sold for that. You are meant to connect it straight
> across the power supply to the amp, supposedly to decrease the
> impedance and make up a bit for the resistance of the cables, battery,
> etc.
I know nuffink about amps but my 5 series has two. Fitted by the previous
owner.
One for the uprated std car speakers and one driving a 1000w bass speaker in
the boot.
I notice the very thick extra cable powering them, (about as thick as a
starter cable) has like a clear shiny yellow perspex connector right next to
the battery. About 75mm long, 25mm diameter at the centre tapering down to
about 16mm both ends where the cables go in.
Looks quite impressive and expensive.
Would this be a capacitor of the type you're referring to?
Mike.
Guy King
from "Stuffed" <tal...@rse.non> contains these words:
> > Nah - even an elderly car can be expected to have a 70 amp alternator -
> > those on modern cars are considerably more powerful. This allows the
> > battery to be recharged very quickly after starting - having loads of
> > gizmos just delays this slightly. Not by much though - and you rarely
> > hear of people actually using more than the 1.2kW a 100A alternator
> > could put out if it had to.
> Define elderly - My current car has all of 45A from the spinny bit. Might
> even be 40, I can't remember exactly which Lucas model is fitted right now.
> And I only recently stopped using a car with a good old dynamo thingy! That
> was quite scary, had an ammeter, which you could see dive into the oh dear
> markings ticking over at night.
OK, I've just checked and my 11 year old Montego's got a 65A one. Ah well.
Colin Stamp
wrote:
>I know nuffink about amps but my 5 series has two. Fitted by the previous
>owner.
>One for the uprated std car speakers and one driving a 1000w bass speaker in
>the boot.
>I notice the very thick extra cable powering them, (about as thick as a
>starter cable) has like a clear shiny yellow perspex connector right next to
>the battery. About 75mm long, 25mm diameter at the centre tapering down to
>about 16mm both ends where the cables go in.
>Looks quite impressive and expensive.
>Would this be a capacitor of the type you're referring to?
>Mike.
That sounds more like one of these:-
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=4999&TabID=1&source=15&WorldID=1&doy=24m4
It's just a terminal block really, to make it convenient to connect
several heavy cables to the battery. Very shiny too.
Cheers,
Colin.
Depresion
I'd hope it's actually one of these: DR84F a fuse holder.
Duncan Wood
Mike G
It's definitely not a terminal block.
In effect, the thick amplifiers feed cable is cut about 50mm from the
battery terminal, and this component is fitted between the two ends.
A heavy duty in-line fuse maybe?
The whole ICE system looks complicated to my untrained eye.
Not something I'd fit myself, but it was there when I baught the car.
I must admit, it does sound better than any car radio I've had in the past.
Mike.
Dave Stanton
> does sound better than any car radio I've had in the past.
Does that mean its loud..... <G>
Mike G
"Dave Stanton" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.04.24....@privacy.net...
> I must admit, it
> > does sound better than any car radio I've had in the past.
>
> Does that mean its loud..... <G>
Only if I turn the volume up.
Then it can thump and BOOM! BOOM! BOOM! with the best of them. :-)
At normal levels it just has a nice clear sound quality.
Mike.
Colin Stamp
>I'd hope it's actually one of these: DR84F a fuse holder.
Ah yes, you never know - they could have done the job right ;o)
Cheers,
Colin.
Stuffed
> from "Stuffed" <tal...@rse.non> contains these words:
>
Might
> > even be 40, I can't remember exactly which Lucas model is fitted right
now.
> > And I only recently stopped using a car with a good old dynamo thingy!
That
> > was quite scary, had an ammeter, which you could see dive into the oh
dear
> > markings ticking over at night.
>
> OK, I've just checked and my 11 year old Montego's got a 65A one. Ah well.
I don't know what my 16 year old Metro's got, I think it's maybe around 55A
(it's got leccy windows and central locking, so probably a slightly more
powerful alternator than the base models).
I think I'm stuck in a bit of a twilight zone though, I'd consider a 1994
car to be positively new!
Nik&Andy
news:d4j1g5$1mk$1...@news.freedom2surf.net...
Just my two pence worth, I have a newish 2.0 TDI VW Touran and it has a
fairly powerful alternator, 110amps and a 70amp battery, not massive but
fairly powerful compared to other cars I have owned, I wonder what my
Peugeot 406 2.1TD has? - It's spiked my interest in a sad techy kind of
way...
Andy
Guy King
from "Stuffed" <tal...@rse.non> contains these words:
> I think I'm stuck in a bit of a twilight zone though, I'd consider a 1994
> car to be positively new!
My L-reg is the newest car I've owned. Company cars don't count.
Guy King
from Chris Street <venus...@chris-street.demon.co.uk> contains these words:
> (I've got one of these tossers lives near me and likes to entertain the
> street at 3am with it. Think I'll be going on a doorkey glueing excercise
> again....)
Shame it's probably CD not radio, or one of these might help...
http://www.afrotechmods.com/cheap/jammer/jammer.htm
Build it into his boot and he'd never find out why his radio didn't work.
Stuffed
> from "Stuffed" <tal...@rse.non> contains these words:
>
> > I think I'm stuck in a bit of a twilight zone though, I'd consider a
1994
> > car to be positively new!
>
> My L-reg is the newest car I've owned. Company cars don't count.
A few years ago I had an H reg, probably the newest thing I've ever owned.
Can't think I've ever had a car less than 9/ 10 years old actually. Can't
say that bothers me all that much either, although it'd be nice to get parts
without mail order sometimes.
Stuffed
"Chris Street" <venus...@chris-street.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:kluzyujf7b9i.i...@40tude.net...
> On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:15:49 +0100, Stuffed wrote:
> > I don't know what my 16 year old Metro's got, I think it's maybe around
55A
> > (it's got leccy windows and central locking, so probably a slightly more
> > powerful alternator than the base models).
>
> My MG1300 had a 55A alternator if memory serves.
That'd be the one. Although mine's not an MG, but would have the better
alternator due to luxury bits ;)
My 1980 daily driver has a 45A, but no c/l, leccy windows, or any other new
fangled gizmos, so it just about copes. I'd still like to put something with
a bit more grunt on there though, as I fancy fitting central locking and
uprating the lights a little (Lucas sealed lamps, really quite poor compared
to modern stuff).