Unsmoothed car battery charger - is it crap?
Eddie
but usually works fine. The battery is flat (I left the lights
on).
My fancy new modern charger senses a poor battery and only puts in
very little charge.
I used to use a really old charger to charge this battery
successfully. I opened up the old charger and saw it was only a
transformer and a big rectifier. That's it. No soothing.
Is this ok for a car battery or is it way too crude?
Tim S
Well, it always has been OK - never seen a car charger that was anything but
a transformer and some rectifiers - but then I haven't actually bought a
new one for 20 years!
The only concern is for the electronics in the car, but generally the
battery itself will do the smoothing, which only leaves over-voltage to be
a problem, so don't over charge the battery, which would be bad for the
battery anyway.
If you're paranoid you could disconnect the +ve and charge the battery in
isolation.
Cheers
Tim
Gareth
Both; it is crude but it's ok for a car battery.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
To reply to me directly:
Replace privacy.net with: totalise DOT co DOT uk and replace me with
gareth.harris
Steve Walker
> Eddie wrote:
>> My car battery is oversized for the car. The battery is a bit old
>> but usually works fine. The battery is flat (I left the lights
>> on).
>>
>> My fancy new modern charger senses a poor battery and only puts in
>> very little charge.
>>
>> I used to use a really old charger to charge this battery
>> successfully. I opened up the old charger and saw it was only a
>> transformer and a big rectifier. That's it. No soothing.
>>
>> Is this ok for a car battery or is it way too crude?
>
> Both; it is crude but it's ok for a car battery.
Modern "intelligent" chargers are much kinder to the battery and usually
have an automatic maintain mode, so you don't have to remove the charger as
soon as it's charged and can even use them to maintain the charge if the
vehicle is not used for some time. Old fashioned basic chargers will
sometimes recover batteries that an intelligent charger won't charge
though, but if you leave them on too long they'll boil the electrolyte off.
Personally, I use an intelligent charger, but have an old charger to start
the charge on any very flat battery, which I can then complete with the
modern one.
SteveW
castleb...@att.net
"Eddie" <du...@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:9C23C4E71...@text.news.virginmedia.com...
Check the electrolyte level in your battery.Filtered DC causes polarization
of the battery.
Bob
Duncan Wood
An unpolarised battery isn't much use.
Eddie
It's a sealed battery. Are they better or worse than electrolyte
batteries when the charge drops to very low?
Duncan Wood
Similar, the difference is when they're overcharged , but any battery with
a high CCA compared to it's capacity won't like being hard discharged.
Boost it for a few hours on the old charger, charge it up on a decent one
or by driving the car & see if it's still happy.
geoff
writes
Dunno - might make a good door stop
--
geoff
Duncan Wood
Fair point.
Bill
writes
>>An unpolarised battery isn't much use.
>
>Dunno - might make a good door stop
>
Depends a bit on size.
Last week a VERY large hornet decided to take a stroll across my work
bench. A 2.8Ah Yuasa flattened it perfectly. Although I must admit
that it was not unpolarised, the battery that is.
Any one have any other uses for old batteries?
--
Bill
Adam Aglionby
An AC battery would be darn handy...
Adam
Duncan Wood
wrote:
> On 7 June, 21:17, "Duncan Wood" <nntpn...@dmx512.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 20:50:26 +0100, <castlebravo...@att.net> wrote:
>>
>> > "Eddie" <du...@invalid.com> wrote in message
>> >news:9C23C4E71...@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>> >> My car battery is oversized for the car. ï¿œThe battery is a bit old
>> >> but usually works fine. ï¿œThe battery is flat (I left the lights
>> >> on).
>>
>> >> My fancy new modern charger senses a poor battery and only puts in
>> >> very little charge.
>>
>> >> I used to use a really old charger to charge this battery
>> >> successfully. ï¿œI opened up the old charger and saw it was only a
>> >> transformer and a big rectifier. That's it. ï¿œNo soothing.
>>
>> >> Is this ok for a car battery or is it way too crude?
>>
>> > Check the electrolyte level in your battery.Filtered DC causes ￜ
>> > polarization
>> > of the battery.
>>
>> > Bob
>>
>> An unpolarised battery isn't much use.
>
> An AC battery would be darn handy...
>
> Adam
You've not met Radioheads big battery have you :-)
Dave Plowman (News)
An ancient crude charger is actually quite good at recovering a flat and
possibly sulphated battery - it will output quite a high voltage with a
high impedance load, which is needed to help combat the sulphation.
However, after the battery has started to take a reasonable charge rate,
ditch it and use your modern one.
--
*Would a fly without wings be called a walk?
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt
Electrons are electrons to the battery. If they are at high enough
potential to cause a charge condition on the battery, they will.
Robert Baer
Actually, that is *better*; the pulses tend to de-sulphate the battery.
Robert Baer
Sealed batteries use a gelled electolyte, and so the charge rate must
be limited to prevent outgassing.
Within that limit, they are supposed to tolerate extended charging
times because the internal chemistry changes some to compensate.
Robert Baer
Well!!!
My electrons are smaller than your electrons; take THAT!!
Redwood
news:5067e52...@davenoise.co.uk...
> In article <9C23C4E71...@text.news.virginmedia.com>,
> Eddie <du...@invalid.com> wrote:
>> My car battery is oversized for the car. The battery is a bit old
>> but usually works fine. The battery is flat (I left the lights
>> on).
>
>> My fancy new modern charger senses a poor battery and only puts in
>> very little charge.
>
>> I used to use a really old charger to charge this battery
>> successfully. I opened up the old charger and saw it was only a
>> transformer and a big rectifier. That's it. No soothing.
>
>> Is this ok for a car battery or is it way too crude?
>
> An ancient crude charger is actually quite good at recovering a flat and
> possibly sulphated battery - it will output quite a high voltage with a
> high impedance load, which is needed to help combat the sulphation.
> However, after the battery has started to take a reasonable charge rate,
> ditch it and use your modern one.
>
charger soon as the batt can take it. From experience though, if connecting
a totally flat batt get ready to switch off the old charger before the
needle goes off the scale followed by a big bang as the bridge rectifier
decides its had enough!!
Dave Plowman (News)
Robert Baer <rober...@localnet.com> wrote:
> > It's a sealed battery. Are they better or worse than electrolyte
> > batteries when the charge drops to very low?
> Sealed batteries use a gelled electolyte, and so the charge rate must
> be limited to prevent outgassing.
Although they're called sealed, car batteries are actually low maintenance
types which are still wet. Some serious off roaders may use SLA - but
don't know of any car which does.
> Within that limit, they are supposed to tolerate extended charging
> times because the internal chemistry changes some to compensate.
--
*Never test the depth of the water with both feet.*
Dave Plowman (News)
Redwood <n...@home.net> wrote:
> I keep one just for that purpose & then connect the new fangled smart
> charger soon as the batt can take it. From experience though, if
> connecting a totally flat batt get ready to switch off the old charger
> before the needle goes off the scale followed by a big bang as the
> bridge rectifier decides its had enough!!
My ancient one has a series resistor to limit the current - and has both
mains and DC fuses.
--
*Letting a cat out of the bag is easier than putting it back in *
Michael A. Terrell
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
>
> In article <7940lpF...@mid.individual.net>,
> Redwood <n...@home.net> wrote:
> > I keep one just for that purpose & then connect the new fangled smart
> > charger soon as the batt can take it. From experience though, if
> > connecting a totally flat batt get ready to switch off the old charger
> > before the needle goes off the scale followed by a big bang as the
> > bridge rectifier decides its had enough!!
>
> My ancient one has a series resistor to limit the current - and has both
> mains and DC fuses.
The one I built in the '60s has a Variac to set the charging current,
ot float voltage.
--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!
Duncan Wood
<da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <B9-dnXESFe7ixrHX...@posted.localnet>,
> Robert Baer <rober...@localnet.com> wrote:
>> > It's a sealed battery. Are they better or worse than electrolyte
>> > batteries when the charge drops to very low?
>> Sealed batteries use a gelled electolyte, and so the charge rate must
>> be limited to prevent outgassing.
>
> Although they're called sealed, car batteries are actually low
> maintenance
> types which are still wet. Some serious off roaders may use SLA - but
> don't know of any car which does.
>
>
MX5s IIRC
PeterD
wrote:
Yes, when religion peddlers come to the door, they make great things
to throw.
"But, I didn't see that guy standing there, sorry!" <bg>
BTW, don't unpolarized batteries just provide AC? And if that's the
case, how do you specifiy 50 or 60 Hz?
keit...@gmail.com
> On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 22:32:11 +0100, Bill <B...@birchnet.demon.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> >In message <26i1ZWiMrCLKF...@demon.co.uk>, geoff <ra...@kateda.org>
> >writes
> >>>An unpolarised battery isn't much use.
>
> >>Dunno - might make a good door stop
>
> >Depends a bit on size.
>
> >Last week a VERY large hornet decided to take a stroll across my work
> >bench. A 2.8Ah Yuasa flattened it perfectly. Although I must admit
> >that it was not unpolarised, the battery that is.
>
> >Any one have any other uses for old batteries?
>
> Yes, when religion peddlers come to the door, they make great things
> to throw.
>
> "But, I didn't see that guy standing there, sorry!" <bg>
>
> BTW, don't unpolarized batteries just provide AC?
Yes. 0VAC
> And if that's the case, how do you specifiy 50 or 60 Hz?
0VAC 50/60Hz.
Of course, in Spice they can deliver whatever voltage/frequency you
want. No need to worry about the little details of thermodynamics
either.
Robert Baer
...that is how fast it tumbles when thrown?
Eddie
> "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
>> Eddie <du...@invalid.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> My car battery is oversized for the car. The battery is a
>>> bit old but usually works fine. The battery is flat (I left
>>> the lights on).
>>>
>>> My fancy new modern charger senses a poor battery and only
>>> puts in very little charge.
>>>
>>> I used to use a really old charger to charge this battery
>>> successfully. I opened up the old charger and saw it was
>>> only a transformer and a big rectifier. That's it. No
>>> soothing.
>>>
>>> Is this ok for a car battery or is it way too crude?
>>
>> An ancient crude charger is actually quite good at recovering
>> a flat and possibly sulphated battery - it will output quite
>> a high voltage with a high impedance load, which is needed to
>> help combat the sulphation. However, after the battery has
>> started to take a reasonable charge rate, ditch it and use
>> your modern one.
>>
> I keep one just for that purpose & then connect the new
> fangled smart charger soon as the batt can take it. From
> experience though, if connecting a totally flat batt get ready
> to switch off the old charger before the needle goes off the
> scale followed by a big bang as the bridge rectifier decides
> its had enough!!
I'm the OP. Oddly enough when I used my old charger on the almost
flat low maintenance battery, the ammeter needle hardly moved at
all.
After a few minutes the needle was about midway on the scale where
it more or less stayed for a few hours.
What was happening? Didn't see any great rush of current as you
might have once had!
PHOTOS:
front = http://i44.tinypic.com/wuq7p5.jpg
transformer = http://i44.tinypic.com/2dmfsef.jpg
rectifier = http://i40.tinypic.com/2i0dnyp.jpg
Eddie
I was kind of worrying that unsmoothed AC might not be too good for
the battery.
Eddie
> Eddie coughed up some electrons that declared:
>
>> My car battery is oversized for the car. The battery is a
>> bit old but usually works fine. The battery is flat (I left
>> the lights on).
>>
>> My fancy new modern charger senses a poor battery and only
>> puts in very little charge.
>>
>> I used to use a really old charger to charge this battery
>> successfully. I opened up the old charger and saw it was
>> only a transformer and a big rectifier. That's it. No
>> soothing.
>>
>> Is this ok for a car battery or is it way too crude?
>
> Well, it always has been OK - never seen a car charger that
> was anything but a transformer and some rectifiers - but then
> I haven't actually bought a new one for 20 years!
>
I'm the OP. I think my battery charger is over 30 years old!
I took the casing off (rivetted of course) to see the inside:
front = http://i44.tinypic.com/wuq7p5.jpg
transformer = http://i44.tinypic.com/2dmfsef.jpg
rectifier = http://i40.tinypic.com/2i0dnyp.jpg
It sure looks dated!
Eddie
> The only concern is for the electronics in the car, but
> generally the battery itself will do the smoothing, which only
> leaves over-voltage to be a problem, so don't over charge the
> battery, which would be bad for the battery anyway.
>
> If you're paranoid you could disconnect the +ve and charge the
> battery in isolation.
>
> Cheers
> Tim
Duncan Wood
That's what the diodes are for, it never actually alternates.
Duncan Wood
Ooh, I used to have one of those, don't leave it connected for days or
it'll boil your battery.
geoff
<pet...@hipson.net> writes
The further you drop it, the more it hurts ...
--
geoff
Ecnerwal
Eddie <du...@invalid.com> wrote:
> I'm the OP. I think my battery charger is over 30 years old!
>
> I took the casing off (rivetted of course) to see the inside:
>
> front = http://i44.tinypic.com/wuq7p5.jpg
> transformer = http://i44.tinypic.com/2dmfsef.jpg
> rectifier = http://i40.tinypic.com/2i0dnyp.jpg
>
> It sure looks dated!
True, but not a big deal. You might want a new strain relief or grommet
on the power cord before you cut the cord by not using one where it goes
through the case. The quaint power rectifiers are fine until they are
not - if they ever go bad, "modern" replacements are fairly simple to
get. You probably have a much better ammeter than you'll get in any
"modern" charger.
Nothing wrong with old stuff that works.
If you want a smarter charger, you can start here and add smarts,
capacitors, whatever makes you happy - timers, pulsers, voltage
regulators, the works. The base it's built on hasn't changed much in 70
years.
--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
Dave Platt
Eddie <du...@invalid.com> wrote:
>I'm the OP. Oddly enough when I used my old charger on the almost
>flat low maintenance battery, the ammeter needle hardly moved at
>all.
>
>After a few minutes the needle was about midway on the scale where
>it more or less stayed for a few hours.
>
>What was happening? Didn't see any great rush of current as you
>might have once had!
That sounds like a classic symptom of the battery being badly sulphated.
Lead-acid batteries run on... well, lead and (sulphuric) acid. The
electrochemical reaction which produces current, is one in which the
lead reacts with the acid. converting the lead to lead sulphate. When
you re-charge the battery, the reaction is reversed... the lead
sulphate is broken up into lead (metallic) and sulphate ion, which
goes back into the electrolyte to once again form sulphuric acid.
The lead sulphate which is formed during discharge has a couple of
different crystal forms. The initial deposition of sulphate isn't too
difficult to dissolve... but it converts spontaneously to a different
crystal form which is hard, difficult to dissolve, and forms an
effective insulator.
I think that's what happened to your battery. When you initially
tried to recharge it, the plates were covered with a uniform layer of
lead sulphate, and were thus well insulated from one another. Very
little current could flow. After a few minutes, the relatively high
voltage from the old-style charger managed to break down some of the
sulphate layer, allowing an increase in the current flow.
There are techniques and devices on the market which are intended to
reverse the sulphation of batteries. They usually involve some form
of high-voltage pulse charging, sometimes using an inductive "tank"
circuit to create very short radio-frequency pulses. This is supposed
to break down the insoluble sulphate crystals. Some people swear by
these devices, other people swear that they're useless.
Deep-discharging most car batteries (low-maintenance or otherwise) is
usually said to be very bad for them. The extensive conversion of
lead to lead sulphate (and then back again) damages the structure of
the lead plates, and the plates begin to crumble and disintegrate,
greatly shortening the battery's lifetime.
--
Dave Platt <dpl...@radagast.org> AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!
daestrom
> but usually works fine. The battery is flat (I left the lights
> on).
>
> My fancy new modern charger senses a poor battery and only puts in
> very little charge.
>
> I used to use a really old charger to charge this battery
> successfully. I opened up the old charger and saw it was only a
> transformer and a big rectifier. That's it. No soothing.
>
> Is this ok for a car battery or is it way too crude?
Not *too* many years ago (mid 70's), my dad had to retire his battery
charger. The filament for the edison valve finally burned out and there are
no replacements.
120 VAC to a transformer with two secondary windings. One powered valve
filament, the other when to cathode and positive cable. Negative cable came
from plate of the 'valve'.
Worked fine for many years (originally purchased by my grandfather back in
the 20's or 30's).
daestrom
P.S. Mind you, you did have to keep an eye on the battery and when it
started bubbling/boiling, it was time to shut it off (big ole rotary
snapswitch on the line side)
StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt
You said you saw a diode, so how is it that you forgot that it is NOT
AC?
James Sweet
> In article <B9-dnXESFe7ixrHX...@posted.localnet>,
> Robert Baer <rober...@localnet.com> wrote:
>>> It's a sealed battery. Are they better or worse than electrolyte
>>> batteries when the charge drops to very low?
>> Sealed batteries use a gelled electolyte, and so the charge rate must
>> be limited to prevent outgassing.
>
> Although they're called sealed, car batteries are actually low maintenance
> types which are still wet. Some serious off roaders may use SLA - but
> don't know of any car which does.
>
Optima sells SLA batteries intended for vehicles. I don't know of any
car manufacture that uses one as the OEM battery, but I've seen plenty
of them in cars. Whether they have any real advantage over conventional
low maintenance automotive batteries in that application, I don't know.
James Sweet
It's not unsmoothed AC, it's unsmoothed DC. The battery doesn't care.
James Sweet
>
> "Eddie" <du...@invalid.com> wrote in message
> news:9C23C4E71...@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>> My car battery is oversized for the car. The battery is a bit old
>> but usually works fine. The battery is flat (I left the lights
>> on).
>>
>> My fancy new modern charger senses a poor battery and only puts in
>> very little charge.
>>
>> I used to use a really old charger to charge this battery
>> successfully. I opened up the old charger and saw it was only a
>> transformer and a big rectifier. That's it. No soothing.
>>
>> Is this ok for a car battery or is it way too crude?
>
> Not *too* many years ago (mid 70's), my dad had to retire his battery
> charger. The filament for the edison valve finally burned out and there
> are no replacements.
>
> 120 VAC to a transformer with two secondary windings. One powered valve
> filament, the other when to cathode and positive cable. Negative cable
> came from plate of the 'valve'.
>
> Worked fine for many years (originally purchased by my grandfather back
> in the 20's or 30's).
>
>
Of course by then the tube (valve) could have easily been replaced by a
modern silicon rectifier.
Dave Plowman (News)
James Sweet <james...@trashmail.net> wrote:
> > Although they're called sealed, car batteries are actually low maintenance
> > types which are still wet. Some serious off roaders may use SLA - but
> > don't know of any car which does.
> >
> Optima sells SLA batteries intended for vehicles. I don't know of any
> car manufacture that uses one as the OEM battery, but I've seen plenty
> of them in cars. Whether they have any real advantage over conventional
> low maintenance automotive batteries in that application, I don't know.
I don't think Optima is SLA - ie gel electrolytic. It's wet but spill
proof.
http://www.optimabattery.co.uk/english_optima/technical.htm
Love all the blurb about how long they last. If only they backed that up
with a warranty.
--
*For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism *
JosephKK
>My car battery is oversized for the car. The battery is a bit old
>but usually works fine. The battery is flat (I left the lights
>on).
>
>My fancy new modern charger senses a poor battery and only puts in
>very little charge.
>
>I used to use a really old charger to charge this battery
>successfully. I opened up the old charger and saw it was only a
>transformer and a big rectifier. That's it. No soothing.
>
>Is this ok for a car battery or is it way too crude?
It is actually better than you might expect. It turns out that for
battery and plating type reactions pulsed DC actually works better in
most cases. It has something to do solution kinetics. And as other
posters have noted, you gotta monitor that old thing, and about 4
hours max per session, preferably not more than 1 to 2 hours per
session.
JosephKK
wrote:
I can't remember for how long i have known that deep cycling was bas
for lead-acid batteries, it is nice to have some insight into the
damage process.
Dave Plowman (News)
JosephKK<quiett...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >Deep-discharging most car batteries (low-maintenance or otherwise) is
> >usually said to be very bad for them. The extensive conversion of
> >lead to lead sulphate (and then back again) damages the structure of
> >the lead plates, and the plates begin to crumble and disintegrate,
> >greatly shortening the battery's lifetime.
> I can't remember for how long i have known that deep cycling was bas
> for lead-acid batteries, it is nice to have some insight into the
> damage process.
I remember buying an AC Delco battery years ago - and it had a three year
unconditional warranty if used on a car, but only one if used in a golf
buggy, etc.
--
GregS
I have resurected some batteries that have sit around that initially soak very
little input current. I have left it go for a week sometimes. I need to try
that with some old gel cells I have. After overcharging them, they partially clear
up the sulfation. I mostly use deep discharge
batteries in the truck. They seem to hold up better after complete
discharge, while the truck sits for long periods. The thicker
plates seem to last longer. I keep thinking of hooking
up that solar cell charger but never have yet.
greg
Michael A. Terrell
http://www.interstateallbattery.com/vehicle_batteries.htm says their
Optima batteries are not gel cell.
Ecnerwal
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> http://www.interstateallbattery.com/vehicle_batteries.htm says their
> Optima batteries are not gel cell.
Likely AGM. Gel is a gelled electolyte (seems obvious), and the gel can
have holes blown in it (from gas bubbles) when unhappy charging events
occur. The holes don't heal.
AGM is a liquid electolye Absorbed in a Glass Mat. If bubbling happens,
it can "heal" - though if too much bubbling happens, the valve will open
to release the pressure (Valve Regulated Lead Acid, or VRLA, rather than
"sealed" in a minor technical sense) - you can't put water back in, so
gassing is best avoided, or the battery dies soon afterwards.
Dave Plowman (News)
> > > any car manufacture that uses one as the OEM battery, but I've seen
> > > plenty of them in cars. Whether they have any real advantage over
> > > conventional low maintenance automotive batteries in that
> > > application, I don't know.
> >
> > I don't think Optima is SLA - ie gel electrolytic. It's wet but spill
> > proof.
> >
> > http://www.optimabattery.co.uk/english_optima/technical.htm
> >
> > Love all the blurb about how long they last. If only they backed that
> > up with a warranty.
> http://www.interstateallbattery.com/vehicle_batteries.htm says their
> Optima batteries are not gel cell.
Right - thanks for that. In the UK Optima cost about 4 times a decent
other make for cars - so to me are basically a con. Unless they lasted 4
times as long - and backed it up with a warranty.
--
*(over a sketch of the titanic) "The boat sank - get over it
Michael A. Terrell
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
>
> In article <soednYPEk4ArDrPX...@earthlink.com>,
> Michael A. Terrell <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > > > Optima sells SLA batteries intended for vehicles. I don't know of
> > > > any car manufacture that uses one as the OEM battery, but I've seen
> > > > plenty of them in cars. Whether they have any real advantage over
> > > > conventional low maintenance automotive batteries in that
> > > > application, I don't know.
> > >
> > > I don't think Optima is SLA - ie gel electrolytic. It's wet but spill
> > > proof.
> > >
> > > http://www.optimabattery.co.uk/english_optima/technical.htm
> > >
> > > Love all the blurb about how long they last. If only they backed that
> > > up with a warranty.
>
> > http://www.interstateallbattery.com/vehicle_batteries.htm says their
> > Optima batteries are not gel cell.
>
> Right - thanks for that. In the UK Optima cost about 4 times a decent
> other make for cars - so to me are basically a con. Unless they lasted 4
> times as long - and backed it up with a warranty.
These are sold for off road use where you may roll the vehicle, and
race cars for the lower weight. They are more expensive than some
batteries, but the conventional types have gone sky high, as well.
Michael A. Terrell
Interstate claims they can be installed upside down so if they vent,
it will cause lots of problems.
krw
<da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <soednYPEk4ArDrPX...@earthlink.com>,
> Michael A. Terrell <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> > > Optima sells SLA batteries intended for vehicles. I don't know of
>> > > any car manufacture that uses one as the OEM battery, but I've seen
>> > > plenty of them in cars. Whether they have any real advantage over
>> > > conventional low maintenance automotive batteries in that
>> > > application, I don't know.
>> >
>> > I don't think Optima is SLA - ie gel electrolytic. It's wet but spill
>> > proof.
>> >
>> > http://www.optimabattery.co.uk/english_optima/technical.htm
>> >
>> > Love all the blurb about how long they last. If only they backed that
>> > up with a warranty.
>
>> http://www.interstateallbattery.com/vehicle_batteries.htm says their
>> Optima batteries are not gel cell.
>
>Right - thanks for that. In the UK Optima cost about 4 times a decent
>other make for cars - so to me are basically a con. Unless they lasted 4
>times as long - and backed it up with a warranty.
My 2001 truck battery is the original. Why do I care if it'll last
four times longer?
Dave Plowman (News)
Talking about UK prices they're even more sky high. And are advertised
here as being a viable alternative for ordinary car use. But they're not.
As regards the weight thing they may be lower weight - but they are also
lower capacity in terms of A/hr for all but the smallest cars.
--
*Indian Driver - Smoke signals only*
daestrom
"James Sweet" <james...@trashmail.net> wrote in message
news:h0keu8$nug$4...@news.eternal-september.org...
Yes, it certainly could have been upgraded. But then you wouldn't get to
see the light from across the garage bay :-)
Besides the newer charger had some nice features that are pretty standard
now, like reverse polarity protection and trickle finish.
daestrom
James Sweet
>
> I have resurected some batteries that have sit around that initially soak very
> little input current. I have left it go for a week sometimes. I need to try
> that with some old gel cells I have. After overcharging them, they partially clear
> up the sulfation. I mostly use deep discharge
> batteries in the truck. They seem to hold up better after complete
> discharge, while the truck sits for long periods. The thicker
> plates seem to last longer. I keep thinking of hooking
> up that solar cell charger but never have yet.
>
> greg
>
They do hold up better, you can still kill them, but deep cycle
batteries tend to have solid plates which are much more resistant to
damage from sulfation, they do however have a much lower capacity to
begin with due to the lower surface area vs the porous plates.
James Sweet
> In article <soednYPEk4ArDrPX...@earthlink.com>,
> Michael A. Terrell <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> Optima sells SLA batteries intended for vehicles. I don't know of
>>>> any car manufacture that uses one as the OEM battery, but I've seen
>>>> plenty of them in cars. Whether they have any real advantage over
>>>> conventional low maintenance automotive batteries in that
>>>> application, I don't know.
>>> I don't think Optima is SLA - ie gel electrolytic. It's wet but spill
>>> proof.
>>>
>>> http://www.optimabattery.co.uk/english_optima/technical.htm
>>>
>>> Love all the blurb about how long they last. If only they backed that
>>> up with a warranty.
>
>> http://www.interstateallbattery.com/vehicle_batteries.htm says their
>> Optima batteries are not gel cell.
>
> Right - thanks for that. In the UK Optima cost about 4 times a decent
> other make for cars - so to me are basically a con. Unless they lasted 4
> times as long - and backed it up with a warranty.
>
It's the same way here.
They are backed by a warranty, but I don't think they have a great
advantage for the typical driver. Seems like they'd be a good buy for a
serious 4x4 though, not my cup of tea but some of those guys do some
pretty crazy stuff, angles and water submersion that would be hard on an
ordinary automotive battery.
I've seen banks of them used in a few electric car conversions as well.
Duncan Wood
Actually the capicity is similar, it's the peak current that you
compromise on.
James Waldby
> In article <Xns9C24DBD9...@text.news.virginmedia.com>,
> Eddie <du...@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm the OP. I think my battery charger is over 30 years old!
>>
>> I took the casing off (rivetted of course) to see the inside:
>>
>> front = http://i44.tinypic.com/wuq7p5.jpg transformer =
>> http://i44.tinypic.com/2dmfsef.jpg rectifier =
>> http://i40.tinypic.com/2i0dnyp.jpg
>>
>> It sure looks dated!
>
> True, but not a big deal. You might want a new strain relief or grommet
> on the power cord before you cut the cord by not using one where it goes
> through the case. The quaint power rectifiers are fine until they are
> not - if they ever go bad, "modern" replacements are fairly simple to
> get.
Selenium rectifiers are still being manufactured (see eg
<http://www.rectifierindia.com/product/seleniumrectifiers/>, which
refers to a "continuous research and development programme aimed at
reliable, lowcost, compact selenium rectifier elements and stacks")
but I presume you refer instead to silicon diodes.
> You probably have a much better ammeter than you'll get in any
> "modern" charger.
>
> Nothing wrong with old stuff that works.
...
--
jiw
Dave Plowman (News)
krw <k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
> >Right - thanks for that. In the UK Optima cost about 4 times a decent
> >other make for cars - so to me are basically a con. Unless they lasted 4
> >times as long - and backed it up with a warranty.
> My 2001 truck battery is the original. Why do I care if it'll last
> four times longer?
Indeed - that sort of life isn't uncommon these days for a quality
battery. Which makes Optima's claims even more ludicrous.
--
*I want it all and I want it delivered
JosephKK
It is more a matter of degree rather than a sharp distinction from
what i have been able to find of the details.
Grimly Curmudgeon
drugs began to take hold. I remember "daestrom" <daes...@twcny.rr.com>
saying something like:
>Not *too* many years ago (mid 70's), my dad had to retire his battery
>charger. The filament for the edison valve finally burned out and there are
>no replacements.
>
>120 VAC to a transformer with two secondary windings. One powered valve
>filament, the other when to cathode and positive cable. Negative cable came
>from plate of the 'valve'.
>
>Worked fine for many years (originally purchased by my grandfather back in
>the 20's or 30's).
Would have been a simple job to put in a normal solid state rectifier,
just to keep a historically interesting bit of kit working.
Otoh, valve rectifiers are still being made in China, afaik.
Grimly Curmudgeon
saying something like:
> And as other
>posters have noted, you gotta monitor that old thing, and about 4
>hours max per session, preferably not more than 1 to 2 hours per
>session.
That's a perfectly ordinary home-use 4A charger, of which millions were
made. As charging state rose, the current fell and it took ages for the
battery to start bubbling, usually a day or so.
Still best to have it on a timer, I would agree, but 4 hours per session
is nonsense.
geoff
Curmudgeon <grimly...@REMOVEgmail.com> writes
|Septics, eh ?
--
geoff
Archimedes' Lever
They are still being made in a lot of places. Likely just not the one
he was wanting.
Proteus IIV
wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:05:31 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon
>
>
>
>
>
> <grimly4REM...@REMOVEgmail.com> wrote:
> >We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
> >saying something like:
>
> >>Not *too* many years ago (mid 70's), my dad had to retire his battery
> >>charger. The filament for the edison valve finally burned out and there are
> >>no replacements.
>
> >>120 VAC to a transformer with two secondary windings. One powered valve
> >>filament, the other when to cathode and positive cable. Negative cable came
> >>from plate of the 'valve'.
>
> >>Worked fine for many years (originally purchased by my grandfather back in
> >>the 20's or 30's).
>
> >Would have been a simple job to put in a normal solid state rectifier,
> >just to keep a historically interesting bit of kit working.
> >Otoh, valve rectifiers are still being made in China, afaik.
>
> They are still being made in a lot of places. Likely just not the one
>
> - Show quoted text -
EAT EXCREMENT TROLL
I AM PROTEUS
James Sweet
I suspect it was something like a Tungar argon rectifier or a mercury
vapor rectifier and not a conventional thermionic diode as is still made
today for tube (valve) audio and such. You need something low impedance
for a battery charger.
Chieftain of the Carpet Crawlers
Probably Mercury Vapor. The thing is likely worth more now dead than it
was new.
Dave Plowman (News)
Archimedes' Lever <OneBi...@InfiniteSeries.Org> wrote:
> >Would have been a simple job to put in a normal solid state rectifier,
> >just to keep a historically interesting bit of kit working.
> >Otoh, valve rectifiers are still being made in China, afaik.
> They are still being made in a lot of places. Likely just not the one
> he was wanting.
They're certainly still made for supplying the HT to valve amps etc - but
for high current low voltage? Wouldn't have thought there was much demand.
--
*Marathon runners with bad footwear suffer the agony of defeat*
daestrom
All I can remember is that it looked remarkably like a large, old-fashioned,
light-bulb. Had a screw-in 'Edison' bulb base as well. The only difference
was a single heavy wire also ran to a terminal at the top of the bulb,
opposite the base. The terminal entered the glass and ended in a simple,
flat plate above the bulb filament.
Remember thinking it was just like I had read in a book on Edison about how
he first discovered the 'Edison effect'. That a heated filament would give
off electrons to a positively charged plate.
daestrom
John G.
"daestrom" <daes...@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:h18vm...@news7.newsguy.com...
http://radioheaven.homestead.com/Tungar.html
John G.
Archimedes' Lever
<da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <l0md355eug2ars2fp...@4ax.com>,
> Archimedes' Lever <OneBi...@InfiniteSeries.Org> wrote:
>> >Would have been a simple job to put in a normal solid state rectifier,
>> >just to keep a historically interesting bit of kit working.
>> >Otoh, valve rectifiers are still being made in China, afaik.
>
>
>> They are still being made in a lot of places. Likely just not the one
>> he was wanting.
>
>They're certainly still made for supplying the HT to valve amps etc - but
>for high current low voltage? Wouldn't have thought there was much demand.
Solid state is more efficient.
John G.
"Archimedes' Lever" <OneBi...@InfiniteSeries.Org> wrote in message
news:f1fg3558m127m6sfk...@4ax.com...
Tungar rectifiers are certainly less efficient but they cannot be directly
replaced by semiconductors because the voltage drop is much different,
several volts for a Tungar and the charger would then produce too hi an
output voltage.
John G.
Michael A. Terrell
That is why he is called 'dimbulb' or 'Always Wrong', no matter which
ignorant nym he trolls with:
Abbey Somebody <abno...@castlefrankenstein.org>
AnimalMagic <Anima...@petersbackyard.org>
Archimedes' Lever <OneBi...@InfiniteSeries.Org>
Bart! <B@rt_The_Sheriff_Is_A_Nig**!.org>
Bungalow Bill <Bugal...@AbbeyRoad.UKCOM>
Capt. Cave Man <ItIsSoEasyAC...@upyers.org>
ChairmanOfTheBored <RUB...@crackasmile.org>
Chieftain of the Carpet Crawlers
<thesli...@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org>
Corbomite Carrie <Corb...@maneuver.org>
DarkMatter <DarkM...@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org>
Do I really need to say? <ra...@thescree.org>
Dorothy with the Red Shoes on <Dor...@notinkansas.org>
Dr. Heywood R. Floyd <Hey...@thebarattheendofthemonolith.org>
FatBytestard <FatByt...@somewheronyourharddrive.org>
FunkyPunk FieldEffectTrollsistor <FunkShun...@yermomma.org>
FunkyPunk FieldEffectTrollsistor <FunkShu...@yermomma.org>
GoldIntermetallicEmbrittlement
<GoldIntermetall...@youdontknowjack.org>
Hattori Hanzo <Outint...@billsbackyard.org>
Herbert John \Jackie\" Gleason" <BufordT...@Texarkanacops.gov>
HiggsField <higgd...@whutthableapduyoukno.org>
IAmTheSlime <TheSlimeFr...@oozingacrossyourlivingroomfloor.org>
ItsASecretDummy <secreta...@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org>
LargeMarge <Large...@thetentwoposition.org>
MadManMoon <TheWholePl...@hereandnow.org>
MakeNoAttemptToAdjustYourSet <DoNotAttemptT...@anytime.org>
Massiv...@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org
<Massiv...@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org>
Mr.Eko <ekoint...@lostisland.org>
Mr. Haney <mrh...@thebarattheendofthefarmroad.org>
Mycelium <myceli...@underyourshrooms.org>
Neanderthal <da...@gottafindawomanrighton.org>
Phat Bytestard <PhatBy...@getinmahharddrive.org>
RoyLFuchs <RoyL...@urfargingicehole.org>
SkyPilot <some...@theedgeofspace.org>
SoothSayer <SayS...@TheMonastery.org>
Spurious Response <Spurious...@cleansignal.org>
StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt <Zarat...@thusspoke.org>
Sum Ting Wong
<SumTi...@thebarattheendoftheVenusianLightnigBoltmonolith.org>
SuspendedInGaffa <suspende...@kateshouse.org>
The Great Attractor
<Sup...@ssiveBlackHoleAtTheCenterOfTheMilkyWayGalaxy.org>
TheGlimmerMan <justag...@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org>
TheKraken <ReachUpandSuckYo...@yup.org>
The Last Mimsy <mi...@TheOtherSideoftheLookingGlass.org>
TheQuickBrownFox <thequick...@overthelazydog.org>
"TutAm...@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org"
<TutAm...@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org>
UltimatePatriot <Ultimat...@thebestcountry.org>
UpGrade <UpG...@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org>
ValleyGirl <LuvYe...@LikeIWouldGiveIt.Comeon>
daestrom
"John G." <gree...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:4a3829dc$0$32392$5a62...@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...<snip>
>>> I suspect it was something like a Tungar argon rectifier or a mercury
>>> vapor rectifier and not a conventional thermionic diode as is still made
>>> today for tube (valve) audio and such. You need something low impedance
>>> for a battery charger.
>>
>> All I can remember is that it looked remarkably like a large,
>> old-fashioned, light-bulb. Had a screw-in 'Edison' bulb base as well.
>> The only difference was a single heavy wire also ran to a terminal at the
>> top of the bulb, opposite the base. The terminal entered the glass and
>> ended in a simple, flat plate above the bulb filament.
>>
>> Remember thinking it was just like I had read in a book on Edison about
>> how he first discovered the 'Edison effect'. That a heated filament
>> would give off electrons to a positively charged plate.
>>
>> daestrom
>>
> See this link
>
> http://radioheaven.homestead.com/Tungar.html
>
While the 'bulb' shown looks familar, the charger in question didn't come in
a box like that. As I recall it hat a rotary snap switch on the front and a
circular tapped switch to adjust the charging current and one rather
old-fasioned ammeter. Turned it on and checked the current, adjusting the
tap to suit.
But that definitly looks like the 'bulb' :-) Thanks for the memory
jogger...
daestrom
Archimedes' Lever
wrote:
Diode stacks have bigger drops.
John G.
"Archimedes' Lever" <OneBi...@InfiniteSeries.Org> wrote in message
With a forward drop of something like 0.7 volts how many do you need in a
stack to get towards the 6 or 7 volts forward drop of a tungar and why would
you need a stack to get a reverse voltge of a mere 20 volts.?
John G.
Archimedes' Lever
<mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>"John G." wrote:
>>
>> "Archimedes' Lever" <OneBi...@InfiniteSeries.Org> wrote in message
>> news:f1fg3558m127m6sfk...@4ax.com...
>> > On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 10:37:45 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
>> > <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>> >
>> >>In article <l0md355eug2ars2fp...@4ax.com>,
>> >> Archimedes' Lever <OneBi...@InfiniteSeries.Org> wrote:
>> >>> >Would have been a simple job to put in a normal solid state rectifier,
>> >>> >just to keep a historically interesting bit of kit working.
>> >>> >Otoh, valve rectifiers are still being made in China, afaik.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> They are still being made in a lot of places. Likely just not the one
>> >>> he was wanting.
>> >>
>> >>They're certainly still made for supplying the HT to valve amps etc - but
>> >>for high current low voltage? Wouldn't have thought there was much demand.
>> >
>> > Solid state is more efficient.
>>
>> Tungar rectifiers are certainly less efficient but they cannot be directly
>> replaced by semiconductors because the voltage drop is much different,
>> several volts for a Tungar and the charger would then produce too hi an
>> output voltage.
>
>
> That is why he is called 'dimbulb' or 'Always Wrong', no matter which
>ignorant nym he trolls with:
We were having a conversation, not a pissing match, you retarded twit.
Richard Cranium
<OneBi...@InfiniteSeries.Org> wrote:
<<<<<Snip>>>>>
>>
>> That is why he is called 'dimbulb' or 'Always Wrong', no matter which
>>ignorant nym he trolls with:
>
>
> We were having a conversation, not a pissing match, you retarded twit.
There is no conversation possible with you Archie; it's always a
pissing match because of your foul mouth. And you are always the one
being pissed on.
Are you ready to explain your statement of celibacy yet?
Archimedes' Lever
wrote:
You don't "need" a stack, but if you "need" to drop volts, and you are
using a diode, you need a stack, no?
Our HV diodes, though not capable of such currents, dropped as much as
20 volts. There are like 60 series elements in an HV diode that drops
that much.
Michael A. Terrell
isn't it obvious? Nothing on earth is desperate enough to get laid,
that they will stoop to dimbulb's level.
John G.
"Archimedes' Lever" <OneBi...@InfiniteSeries.Org> wrote in message
It was replacing Tungar rectifiers in battery chargers.
Battery chargers rarely need 60 series elements to make a HV stack and whats
more your 60 diodes would not be much good for 6 amps.
Please try and stay on topic.
John G.
Archimedes' Lever
wrote:
We do not need to drop 20 volts so 60 would not be needed. I was
merely telling you about how HV diodes have a high voltage drop.
For a few volts, it would obviously by a smaller stack, AND of course
one would use diodes that CAN handle higher currents.
Stop trying to officiate like the retards think they do, and YOU stay
on the fucking topic, jackass.
John G.
"Archimedes' Lever" <OneBi...@InfiniteSeries.Org> wrote in message
I thought this was about Battery chargers and not f******.
A SMALLER stack would of course be just ONE diode (or 2 or 4 in other
arrangements), even for a supply voltage of much more than 20.
John G.
Archimedes' Lever
wrote:
Don't be fucking brainless.
>
>A SMALLER stack would of course be just ONE diode (or 2 or 4 in other
>arrangements), even for a supply voltage of much more than 20.
>
No. THAT would be an ARRAY of diodes, in a half or full wave bridge.
A STACK IS a stack. There is only one configuration, SERIES. Stack
until The desired Voltage potential handling capacity has been
sufficiently exceeded (for the HV application), OR stack until the
desired voltage drop has been reached in the case of needing a drop in
your circuit.
ONE diode is NOT ANY kind of stack at all, so there is no "of course"
about it. The whole reason for a stack is to increase the maximum
voltage that can be rectified. The secondary effect is that more voltage
is dropped.
Of course it would be higher cost, and nobody would design a device with
such a set-up, but in this context. The context of repairing a device
one can no longer find the original part for... for that, it would
suffice.
JosephKK
By the time the battery is visibly bubbling you have damaged
irreparably.
Dave Platt
JosephKK <quiett...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>made. As charging state rose, the current fell and it took ages for the
>>battery to start bubbling, usually a day or so.
>>Still best to have it on a timer, I would agree, but 4 hours per session
>>is nonsense.
>By the time the battery is visibly bubbling you have damaged
>irreparably.
I believe that this depends on the specific battery type.
As I understand it, classic lead-acid flooded storage cells are often
deliberately given a periodic "equalizing charge", at a voltage high
enough to cause electrolysis and bubbling. This mixes up the
electrolyte, reversing the stratification of water and acid which can
occur in these cells. One then adds some water to replace what was
lost in gas form due to the electrolysis. Done properly this doesn't
seem to damage batteries designed for it.
This shouldn't be done to gel cells (or AGM cells, I imagine)... I
believe it *will* damage those.
I'm not sure how tolerant modern "no-maintenance" grid-plate car
batteries are to this sort of overcharge.
--
Dave Platt <dpl...@radagast.org> AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!
James Sweet
You'd probably have to do like the old radio guys do replacing selenium
rectifiers and add a suitable power resistor in series with the diode.
Chieftain of the Carpet Crawlers
wrote:
ALL lead acid batteries (not gel cells) bubble while charging. That is
the normal process. That is why you keep sparks away from charging
batteries. It is a normal process.
daestrom
>"JosephKK" <quiett...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:8aul35ha6ap4v3aom...@4ax.com...
Where did you get that nonsense? One of the benefits of equalizer charging
is that it will form bubbles of gas that helps to stir the electrolyte and
mix it to a more uniform concentration.
We deliberately do this to a lot of different lead acid batteries.
What *really* hurts a battery is overheating it or discharging it so low
that you reverse one or more cells. But charging to the point of gassing is
not a serious problem.
daestrom
(former submarine battery-charging electrician)
Chieftain of the Carpet Crawlers
wrote:
I used to rock my batteries several times before a charge session.
Let's have the "placing a lead acid battery on a concrete floor will
discharge it" discussion.
Maybe we should submit that one to Myth Busters.
phil-new...@ipal.net
| I used to rock my batteries several times before a charge session.
|
| Let's have the "placing a lead acid battery on a concrete floor will
| discharge it" discussion.
|
| Maybe we should submit that one to Myth Busters.
I wanna see some batteries explode! Can they get 1000000 amps through it?
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Phil Howard KA9WGN | http://linuxhomepage.com/ http://ham.org/ |
| (first name) at ipal.net | http://phil.ipal.org/ http://ka9wgn.ham.org/ |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chieftain of the Carpet Crawlers
>In alt.engineering.electrical Chieftain of the Carpet Crawlers <thesli...@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote:
>
>| I used to rock my batteries several times before a charge session.
>|
>| Let's have the "placing a lead acid battery on a concrete floor will
>| discharge it" discussion.
>|
>| Maybe we should submit that one to Myth Busters.
>
>I wanna see some batteries explode! Can they get 1000000 amps through it?
Maybe we can get them to go after the world record for size of a Tesla
coil.
They'd probably have to have a sub-station put in.
dennis@home
"daestrom" <daes...@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:h1h8a...@news6.newsguy.com...
> Where did you get that nonsense? One of the benefits of equalizer
> charging is that it will form bubbles of gas that helps to stir the
> electrolyte and mix it to a more uniform concentration.
I remember my parents always opening the fillers on the top of the battery
to let the gas out.
(why I don't know, they vent when you charge them on the car anyway)
Then they got one of those fancy auto vent batteries with the lift up vent
cover..
they decided that they needed to lift that when charging it.
Came back to a floor covered in battery acid as lifting the strip closed the
vents, really intelligent design that.
So gassing can do a lot of harm if the user expects different behaviour to
what happens.
>
Chieftain of the Carpet Crawlers
Gassing doesn't do harm. Dumb users do harm. Just like with guns.
Grimly Curmudgeon
drugs began to take hold. I remember "JosephKK"<quiett...@yahoo.com>
saying something like:
>>That's a perfectly ordinary home-use 4A charger, of which millions were
>>made. As charging state rose, the current fell and it took ages for the
>>battery to start bubbling, usually a day or so.
>>Still best to have it on a timer, I would agree, but 4 hours per session
>>is nonsense.
>
>By the time the battery is visibly bubbling you have damaged
>irreparably.
Umm.. lemme see. How many years have I been involved with automotive
batteries? Many.
How many batteries have I wrecked by overcharging them?
None.
How many batteries have I seen bubbling?
Quite a few.
Note that I don't particlarly recommend leaving the battery on a charger
until it's bubbling vigorously, like a deep-fat frier, but if it happens
it happens and so far it's not damaged any flooded lead-acid cells I've
had.
Anyway, that's why I have them on a timer.
James Sweet
> We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
> drugs began to take hold. I remember "JosephKK"<quiett...@yahoo.com>
> saying something like:
>
>>> That's a perfectly ordinary home-use 4A charger, of which millions were
>>> made. As charging state rose, the current fell and it took ages for the
>>> battery to start bubbling, usually a day or so.
>>> Still best to have it on a timer, I would agree, but 4 hours per session
>>> is nonsense.
>> By the time the battery is visibly bubbling you have damaged
>> irreparably.
>
> Umm.. lemme see. How many years have I been involved with automotive
> batteries? Many.
>
> How many batteries have I wrecked by overcharging them?
> None.
>
> How many batteries have I seen bubbling?
> Quite a few.
>
>
The only time I've ever seen a battery damaged by overcharging was when
the voltage regulator failed on a friend's car in a way that the output
was much higher than it should be, and it boiled almost all the water out.
Roger Hunt
writes
>In alt.engineering.electrical Chieftain of the Carpet Crawlers <theslipperman@th
>ebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote:
>
>| I used to rock my batteries several times before a charge session.
>|
>| Let's have the "placing a lead acid battery on a concrete floor will
>| discharge it" discussion.
>|
>| Maybe we should submit that one to Myth Busters.
>
>I wanna see some batteries explode! Can they get 1000000 amps through it?
>
I neglected to remove the vent plug before charging.
The whole case was bulging ominously by the time I noticed.
--
Roger Hunt
Dave Plowman (News)
Roger Hunt <nos...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> I was very close to that once I reckon, with a motorcycle battery, when
> I neglected to remove the vent plug before charging.
> The whole case was bulging ominously by the time I noticed.
Every low maintenance wet battery I've seen has a vent to stop this
happening. Often with a plastic tube attached to vent the fumes out of
harm's way. Genuine SLA have a vent too - but no 'vent plug'
--
*TEAMWORK...means never having to take all the blame yourself *
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Roger Hunt
<da...@davenoise.co.uk> writes
>In article <N1wmIIAE...@nospam.demon.co.uk>,
> Roger Hunt <nos...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> I was very close to that once I reckon, with a motorcycle battery, when
>> I neglected to remove the vent plug before charging.
>> The whole case was bulging ominously by the time I noticed.
>
>Every low maintenance wet battery I've seen has a vent to stop this
>happening. Often with a plastic tube attached to vent the fumes out of
>harm's way. Genuine SLA have a vent too - but no 'vent plug'
>
battery, a Yuasa YB3L, IIRC.
All cells breathe to a vent at the side, then a plastic tube downwards.
When it is supplied wet, this vent is plugged for obvious reasons, and
it is easy to forget to remove it before the initial trickle charge I
used to give them.
--
Roger Hunt
JosephKK
wrote:
>In article <8aul35ha6ap4v3aom...@4ax.com>,
>JosephKK <quiett...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>>made. As charging state rose, the current fell and it took ages for the
>>>battery to start bubbling, usually a day or so.
>>>Still best to have it on a timer, I would agree, but 4 hours per session
>>>is nonsense.
>
>>By the time the battery is visibly bubbling you have damaged
>>irreparably.
>
>I believe that this depends on the specific battery type.
>
>As I understand it, classic lead-acid flooded storage cells are often
>deliberately given a periodic "equalizing charge", at a voltage high
>enough to cause electrolysis and bubbling. This mixes up the
>electrolyte, reversing the stratification of water and acid which can
>occur in these cells. One then adds some water to replace what was
>lost in gas form due to the electrolysis. Done properly this doesn't
>seem to damage batteries designed for it.
That is not the style, action, or purpose of an equalizing charge. No
bubbling is involved in anything i have found on equalizing charging.
JosephKK
wrote:
>
The bubbling is mainly released hydrogen. This results in an unwanted
excess of sulfate ions. You should be able to figure it out from
there.
Dave Platt
JosephKK <quiett...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>That is not the style, action, or purpose of an equalizing charge. No
>bubbling is involved in anything i have found on equalizing charging.
Interesting - thanks. I've seen articles posted which assert that the
equalizing and de-stratification does involve some amount of
gassing... and now that I look, I see other references which either
don't mention gassing during equalization charge or which state that a
proper equalizing charge should be prolonged, slow, and should
definitely _not_ cause gassing.