Ford KA Snapped Spark Plug :(
Kirky
I came to the spark plugs I noticed that there was a lot of rust
around the top of the plugs. I scratched it all away and left some
WD40 to soak in before attempting to unscrew the plugs. Although
extremly tight, 3 have come out in-tack but one has snapped in half
leaving the threaded part in the block. I managed to hoover out the
remains of the ceramic part from with-in the plug although I know some
may of already fallen inside the head.
I bought a set of stud removers and attempted to remove the remains of
the plug. We used more WD40 but it just would not shift, the stud
remover was gripping well but we didn't dare put any more force onto
the breaker bar(we did give it plenty!!)
Anyhow we have now given up and I plan to tow the car to a garage
tomorrow. Are they likely to have a better method for removing the
part left and successfully clean out whatever may have fallen in or
will they just remove the head and machine it out properly?
Either way how much should I expect to pay and how long would such
jobs take?
What I was hoping would be an easy Sunday morning job has turned out
to by a real pain in the ass!
Thanks
Rob
Duncan Wood
They do that :-( Worst case is head off & helicoil, but if you're carefull
you can weld a bit of tube onto the old plug & the heat from that will let
it come out easily.
--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Kirky
How much is that likely to cost roughly?
According to the handbook, spark plug's only need replacing every
37.5k miles. The car has full service history and has only done 55k
miles, the plugs that came out were NGK ones so I'm assuming they are
not the original ones so it may actually not have needed any yet.
Surely they need replacing much more often if they corrode up so
badly,
Rob
Duncan Wood
> Thanks for the quick reply.
>
> How much is that likely to cost roughly?
>
It depends how long it takes to get it out, Mr Cheerfull's probably got
the most experience, but eat & wriggling with the stud extractor may save
you a trip to the garage.
> According to the handbook, spark plug's only need replacing every
> 37.5k miles. The car has full service history and has only done 55k
> miles, the plugs that came out were NGK ones so I'm assuming they are
> not the original ones so it may actually not have needed any yet.
> Surely they need replacing much more often if they corrode up so
> badly,
>
> Rob
Well they need undoing & redoing up again far more often than that.
Mrcheerful
it is usual to remove them every year to keep them happy, and always put
them back in with coppaslip. Removing broken ends is often done just with a
torx bit hammered in. The need for head removal is not very often (maybe 1
in 10) Tapered extractors are best avoided since they spread the bit in the
head.
Duncan Wood
wrote:
& the hammering tends to help :-)
steve robinson
When heating the plug be careful you dont warp the head or cook any
gaskets
Dave Baker
"Kirky" <theb...@uboot.com> wrote in message
news:fccb5293-2189-4daf...@k7g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
>I was just servicing my partners 2003 Ford ka 1.3 Duratec Engine. When
> I came to the spark plugs I noticed that there was a lot of rust
> around the top of the plugs. I scratched it all away and left some
> WD40 to soak in before attempting to unscrew the plugs. Although
> extremly tight, 3 have come out in-tack but one has snapped in half
> leaving the threaded part in the block. I managed to hoover out the
> remains of the ceramic part from with-in the plug although I know some
> may of already fallen inside the head.
>
> I bought a set of stud removers and attempted to remove the remains of
> the plug. We used more WD40 but it just would not shift, the stud
> remover was gripping well but we didn't dare put any more force onto
> the breaker bar(we did give it plenty!!)
First read this.
http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/ToolUse.htm
Particularly this bit which you will by now realise the logic of plus the
bits on the use of force and heat.
"If the bolt snapped while being removed because it was rusted into its
thread then an Easy-Out is unlikely to work. Let's face it, if the full
strength of the top half of the bolt wasn't enough to remove the threaded
bit then a smaller tool fitted into a little pilot hole isn't going to help
either. Chances are you'll break the Easy-Out inside the bolt and end up in
an even worse mess. The way out here is to mill the bolt out carefully and
retap the threads in the component or to helicoil the component back to its
original size if the threads are too damaged to be used."
If you have access to a lathe or anyone who has one then make up a little
steel drift with a shouldered end with a pilot which just fits inside the
remains of the plug to keep it centred and a shoulder which bears on the top
part of the threaded bit but doesn't foul the head. Now give the remains of
the plug a few good whacks. Give it some heat with a camping gaz burner and
a bit more whacking. Now try the Easy-Out again gently.
If no luck then the splined type removal tools which you smack into place
work much better than the tapered threaded type which as has already been
mentioned tend to expand the thing they are trying to remove and just end up
locking them in tighter.
The last resort is drilling, tapping and possibly helicoiling.
--
Dave Baker
Kirky
thing in the morning and see what they can do.
I will let you know what happens.
Rob
David Hearn
If it's any consolation, a Ford garage did that to our Focus.
Thankfully it was being done under warranty (leaky washer jets filling
engine channel between cam shafts causing plug tops to sit in water).
Took a good few days - I think they got the Plug Doctor out to do it,
after removing the head.
Been meaning to remove my plugs every so often to stop it happening
again but haven't got round to it - not looking forward to next service ;)
D
Kirky
of the plug out using an Easyout. They must have applied more force
than I did but at the time I felt that the tool was close to snapping
as I had a 2 foot bar on the socket applying a lot of force.
Anyway it only cost me £50 for an hours labour and the car is back and
running fine. I was worried I was going to have to pay to have the
head removed.
The mechanic said he had recovered parts of the broken plug from
inside the cylinder which was another worry. If some were left in
there how soon would it become apparent?
Thanks
Rob
steve robinson
pretty quickly
Chris Whelan
[...]
> The mechanic said he had recovered parts of the broken plug from inside
> the cylinder
Did you ask him how?
> If some were left in there how
> soon would it become apparent?
Chances are, he was just covering himself in case there were.
If you drove it home with no mishap, it should be fine.
Chris
--
Remove prejudice to reply.
Duncan Wood
<cawh...@prejudicentlworld.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 14:04:52 -0800, Kirky wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> The mechanic said he had recovered parts of the broken plug from inside
>> the cylinder
>
> Did you ask him how?
>
Easiest way is a tin of spray grease & extension tube, spray round the
outside, raise piston, all the crap comes out.
>> If some were left in there how
>> soon would it become apparent?
>
> Chances are, he was just covering himself in case there were.
>
> If you drove it home with no mishap, it should be fine.
>
> Chris
>
--
Chris Whelan
> On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 22:15:27 -0000, Chris Whelan
> <cawh...@prejudicentlworld.com> wrote:
>>> The mechanic said he had recovered parts of the broken plug from
>>> inside the cylinder
>>
>> Did you ask him how?
>>
>>
> Easiest way is a tin of spray grease & extension tube, spray round the
> outside, raise piston, all the crap comes out.
Without removing the head?
Duncan Wood
<cawh...@prejudicentlworld.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Feb 2011 10:32:40 +0000, Duncan Wood wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 22:15:27 -0000, Chris Whelan
>> <cawh...@prejudicentlworld.com> wrote:
>
>>>> The mechanic said he had recovered parts of the broken plug from
>>>> inside the cylinder
>>>
>>> Did you ask him how?
>>>
>>>
>> Easiest way is a tin of spray grease & extension tube, spray round the
>> outside, raise piston, all the crap comes out.
>
> Without removing the head?
>
> Chris
>
Yup, you wind thw piston down slightly, spray a good gloop round the
cylinder wall & as you bring the piston up again all the crap comes out
with the grease. Obviously it works better if you put the grease in 1st,
but the broken sparkplug normally stops you doing that.
Chris Whelan
So now you've got a ring of grease at the top of the bore, with bits of
broken plug stuck to it, and access is only through the 10mm spark plug
hole. How do you remove the mess?
I can't see how you are in any better a position than if you just cranked
it over with the plug out, and the coil unplugged.
Duncan Wood
<cawh...@prejudicentlworld.com> wrote:
As you wind the piston up the grease is forced out through the sparkplug
hole, & brings all the crap with it.
SteveH
> > So now you've got a ring of grease at the top of the bore, with bits of
> > broken plug stuck to it, and access is only through the 10mm spark plug
> > hole. How do you remove the mess?
> >
> > I can't see how you are in any better a position than if you just cranked
> > it over with the plug out, and the coil unplugged.
> >
> > Chris
> >
>
> As you wind the piston up the grease is forced out through the sparkplug
> hole, & brings all the crap with it.
No, still can't see how this works.
Surely the answer is 'decent vacuum cleaner'.
--
SteveH
Chris Whelan
But then at TDC the combustion chamber would still be full of grease and
crap!
Mark
> On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 22:15:27 -0000, Chris Whelan
>>
>>> the cylinder
>>
>> Did you ask him how?
>>
>
> Easiest way is a tin of spray grease & extension tube, spray round the
> outside, raise piston, all the crap comes out.
OMG! Whats the likelihood of someone reading this, believing it, and
actually trying it.
(without taking the head off)
-
Duncan Wood
Well try it with something that won't fuck your engine up, it works, it's
not difficult, & I don't suggest trying it if you've knocked 2/3 of a
spark plug into the head o f your E type, but you can see what you've got
out.
Duncan Wood
Well the answer is don't let the plugs go rusty, trying to vacuum things
out of a small hole with a big voids really rather tricky & the bits that
drop in tend not to be magnetic. If it doesn't come up then take the head
off, but it's worked for me.
Duncan Wood
<cawh...@prejudicentlworld.com> wrote:
It'll be full of grease from the edges, exactly the same as if you
helicoil with the head insitu. Stick a rag over the top & spin it over a
couple of times & enough grease comes out that you can start the engine.
prb
says...
Years ago when you had to decoke your engine regularly, someone said you
could do it by dropping a ball bearing through the plughole and then
startine the engine.the ball rattling round would knock of the carbon
and then it was just a case of taking out the plug and again starting up
to blow out the crap. Someone I know (not me)actually tried it!
Duncan Wood
:-)
Mrcheerful
I do know someone that removed a head, hit each valve with a hammer to
reseat it and refitted the head, it ran quite well !! I would have to guess
that the valves were being held open a little by valve seat recession,
during the rebuild the valve clearances were reset, hence it ran better.
Mark
It must be true because i read it on the Internet.
> Someone I know (not me)actually tried it!
some mothers do ave em
-
Rob
> In article<ik649m$7fp$1...@news.eternal-september.org>, Ma...@127.0.0.1
> says...
>>
>> On 24/02/11 10:32, Duncan Wood wrote:
>>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 22:15:27 -0000, Chris Whelan
>>>>
>>>>> The mechanic said he had recovered parts of the broken plug from inside
>>>>> the cylinder
>>>>
>>>> Did you ask him how?
>>>>
>>>
>>> outside, raise piston, all the crap comes out.
>>
>> OMG! Whats the likelihood of someone reading this, believing it, and
>> actually trying it.
>> (without taking the head off)
>>
>>
>> -
>
> Years ago when you had to decoke your engine regularly, someone said you
> could do it by dropping a ball bearing through the plughole and then
> startine the engine.the ball rattling round would knock of the carbon
> and then it was just a case of taking out the plug and again starting up
> to blow out the crap. Someone I know (not me)actually tried it!
Broken rings don't damage valves they seem to get blown out. so if the
balls were an intermediate size between valve opening and combustion
chamber height they would rattle around and work - on a side valve engine
johannes
Once had a car breakdown and called the recovery service. Anyway, it turned out
to be the dreaded ignition coil. As the recovery 'engineer' went about his
business, he checked the sparkplugs which I had recently fitted. To my horror,
he gave them an extra whack, claiming that they were not seated firm enough.
Mrcheerful
He may have been right !!! If plugs are not fitted tightly enough,
especially taper seat ones, the combustion can get blown up the threads, and
water and or dirt can travel down the threads, the effect can be like a glue
on the threads and make them very difficult to remove. I have also seen a
vehicle where the plug undid and blew itself out of the engine and dented
the bonnet.
johannes
So its a fine balance between two dangers. As far as I was concerned, the
sparkplugs were already properly seated.
snot
> In article<ik649m$7fp$1...@news.eternal-september.org>, Ma...@127.0.0.1
> says...
>>
>> On 24/02/11 10:32, Duncan Wood wrote:
>>> On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 22:15:27 -0000, Chris Whelan
>>>>
>>>>> The mechanic said he had recovered parts of the broken plug from inside
>>>>> the cylinder
>>>>
>>>> Did you ask him how?
>>>>
>>>
>>> outside, raise piston, all the crap comes out.
>>
>> OMG! Whats the likelihood of someone reading this, believing it, and
>> actually trying it.
>> (without taking the head off)
>>
>>
>> -
>
> Years ago when you had to decoke your engine regularly, someone said you
> could do it by dropping a ball bearing through the plughole and then
> startine the engine.the ball rattling round would knock of the carbon
> and then it was just a case of taking out the plug and again starting up
> to blow out the crap. Someone I know (not me)actually tried it!
I know of someone that used to pour Vim (that white powder cleaner you
cant get now) into the engine air intake while revving the engine up and
down. Used to clear out the crap and the engine would run better for
long enough to sell it and scarper over the hills and far away.
This was in the late 70's. Don't think it would work now.
--
Blow my nose to email me
rsveh...@yahoo.com
Fredxxx
The mechanic can choose which cars he services. What's the issue with that?
Scott M
> On 22/07/2017 18:36, rsveh...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> What gets me ford don't take any responsibility for a well know
>> problem it's always the mechanic gets the stick back when this head
>> was designed plugs where changed every 10.000 miles now the poor
>> mechanics are trying get them out at 60.000 plus it's not the
>> customers fault it's not mechanics or garages fault it's ford
>
> Why the post?
> The mechanic can choose which cars he services. What's the issue with that?
--
Scott
Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?
Ted
>
60,000. HTF is it Fords fault the owner hasn't been arsed to upkeep the
vehicle?
Scott M
same old design. Although I can't see how things have changed so much
that it's a problem.