Citroen C2 - battery light flashing??
asahartz
"take it to a Citroen dealer" - but of course she's 100 miles away and
they're all shut until Monday!
My professional mechanic friend (ex-AA) has looked at the car, fitted a
new alternator, but it's still doing it - and it's intermittent. He
doesn't know what's causing it now.
Anyone any experience of this?
--
asahartz woz ere
Mrcheerful
"asahartz" <asah...@hotMEATPIEmail.com> wrote in message
news:c8ahk5dj7h4sc48kq...@4ax.com...
the flashing battery light shows it is in eco (electricity saving) mode.
this can be caused by fitting a non standard radio unit.
Clot
Not quite the same experience but might be a common cause.
My wife's car, an 07 Peugeot 206cc D, bought new and with no problems at
all, last winter during a freezing period suddenly started saying similarly
"Do not pass Go".
We duly took the car to the dealer who checked it over and told us that
there is a problem with the ECUs in freezing conditions giving false
information. "We've had several of these recently. Don't worry, there does
not appear to be anything wrong. Do come back if there is a genuine
problem." Our town has a population of 60,000. I am not aware of anyone in
the neighbourhood that has a D version of the car, though there are plenty
of the petrol version. I suspect that it might be an issue with the PSA ECU
unit.
The issue has not appeared again even in the conditions this month, though
the car is little used and has I think only 8k miles on the clock to date.
asahartz
wrote:
Although I didn't know what it meant, I discovered that when I tried to
fit a new radio when her CD player was faulty. I quickly put the
original back! That has since been fixed anyway, so it's always run the
original radio apart from my 5-minute swap.
Is there anything else that can cause this light to flash then?
--
asahartz woz ere
Mrcheerful
it flashes because it thinks the battery is low or being overcharged, so the
first thing is a quality check on the battery, then loose belt, wiring (near
the alternator they get very hot) connectors corroded, alternator or ecu.
Lots of people suffer this fault, many live with it without problems, some
have it turn into a major disaster.
asahartz
In fact it seems it's not actually flashing - it comes on for the length
of a journey, then goes off for the next. Which is particularly strange.
--
asahartz woz ere
Duncan Wood
wrote:
Battery voltage is dropping below nominal minimum whilst starting?
asahartz
wrote:
Well as I said, my professional mechanic friend has looked at it and
fitted a new alternator, and there's nothing in the computerised
diagnosis that anyone outside a main dealer can access, so we're
thinking in terms of living with it unless anything else happens. The
car is in regular use, starts and runs fine, and she's done her motorway
hop from Birmingham to Bedford without problems. It's just an
irritation; we bought a modern car to replace her classic Mini on
reliability grounds, and we still end up with distressed phone calls
from the other end of the country!
--
asahartz woz ere
asahartz
It's a thought. I'm not in a position to check right now. "Nominal
minimum" is 10v apparently, but the car is starting perfectly well. My
friend said he had to rev it over 2000rpm to make the charging kick in -
it's ecu-controlled. Possibly the low-temperature issue another poster
has referred to.
We'll watch & wait...
--
asahartz woz ere
Duncan Wood
wrote:
Well you can actually get your hands on the lexia diagnostics, there's
hooky copies on Ebay all the time & a couple of real shops selling it.
Chris Whelan
[...]
> we bought a modern car to replace her classic Mini on
> reliability grounds, and we still end up with distressed phone calls
> from the other end of the country!
You bought her a C2 on reliability grounds? Oh dear...
Chris
--
Remove prejudice to reply.
Mike
<cawh...@prejudicentlworld.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 17:51:24 +0000, asahartz wrote:
>
>[...]
>
>> we bought a modern car to replace her classic Mini on
>> reliability grounds, and we still end up with distressed phone calls
>> from the other end of the country!
>
>You bought her a C2 on reliability grounds? Oh dear...
Many might think that, and so did I but a relative has had one from
new, its done about 100,000 miles in three years and she's never had a
single problem. I drove it a few weeks ago and it's rattle free and
feels just like new (I was also the first one to drive it back from
the dealer when it was new) There are zero chips on the paintwork, no
surface corrosion on any underbody, suspension or engine metalwork.
Give it a valet and it would be indistinguishable from a brand new one
in the showroom.
--
Chris Whelan
As has been mentioned here many times, the experiences of one owner,
whether good or bad, are statistically meaningless. You need to look at
the bigger picture.
Googling for C2 problems, or asking those in the trade who would know,
will quickly show you that your relative's experience is atypical.
Duncan Wood
<cawh...@prejudicentlworld.com> wrote:
Googling for any cars problems will get you a huge list though. I've seen
far more faults on Focus's than Citroens.
http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/
--
Duncan Wood
Chris Whelan
[...]
> Googling for any cars problems will get you a huge list though. I've
> seen far more faults on Focus's than Citroens.
> http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/
We're talking specifically C2 here though. You can't compare the whole
output of one manufacturer to just one model from another.
How many Focuses are registered compared to the number of C2's? I'm
willing to stick my neck out and say the ratio is at perhaps 100 to 1, so
inevitably there will be far more reports of Focus problems.
Bear in mind also that the Focus has been around now for nearly 12 years,
almost double the time that the C2 has, so there are far more high-milers
to affect the stats.
The C2 came 96th of 100 in the 2008 JD Power survey. What must be
particularly upsetting for those disenchanted owners is the fact that
Citroen dealers appear to be somewhere near the worst.
Adrian
much like they were saying:
> How many Focuses are registered compared to the number of C2's? I'm
> willing to stick my neck out and say the ratio is at perhaps 100 to 1,
> so inevitably there will be far more reports of Focus problems.
Those statistics are always averaged out against the number of cars on
the road and/or included in the survey, so the relative production/sale
figures should be irrelevant.
> Bear in mind also that the Focus has been around now for nearly 12
> years, almost double the time that the C2 has, so there are far more
> high-milers to affect the stats.
No, the current Focus has been around for about five years.
Reliability Index
C2 - 106.69
Focus (04-) - 62.13
Industry average - 112, lower numbers are better. So, yes, the C2 is less
reliable than the Focus. But.
Average Age
C2 - 3.94 years
Focus (04-) - 3.47
Average Mileage
C2 - 35606.44
Focus (04-) - 35110.49
Time off road is identical, average repair cost for the Citroen is
slightly more expensive.
Of course, they're not really market rivals.
Compare the C2 with a Ka or the C4 with the Focus, and the picture
changes.
The Ka, despite being older, is down as markedly more reliable, less
likely to spend time off the road, and cheaper to fix - but, as you point
out, is an ancient design - and no account seems to be taken for the well-
known structural rot issues the Ka is beleagured with.
The C4 is a similar size, age & spec direct rival to the Focus - and is
much more reliable, spends considerably less time off the road, and is
much cheaper to fix.
> The C2 came 96th of 100 in the 2008 JD Power survey. What must be
> particularly upsetting for those disenchanted owners is the fact that
> Citroen dealers appear to be somewhere near the worst.
That's certainly Citroen's big problem. If the dealers were better, I'm
sure the C2 would come out better. That the C4 does so well despite
utterly shite dealers says a lot. B'sides, who'd use a dealer, when
there's so many excellent quality and value independent Citroen
specialists around?
Chris Whelan
> Chris Whelan <cawh...@prejudicentlworld.com> gurgled happily, sounding
> much like they were saying:
>
>> How many Focuses are registered compared to the number of C2's? I'm
>> willing to stick my neck out and say the ratio is at perhaps 100 to 1,
>> so inevitably there will be far more reports of Focus problems.
>
> Those statistics are always averaged out against the number of cars on
> the road and/or included in the survey, so the relative production/sale
> figures should be irrelevant.
I was replying to Duncan's statement where he said "...*I've* seen..";
that implied personal experience, rather than the results of a properly
weighted statistical survey.
>> Bear in mind also that the Focus has been around now for nearly 12
>> years, almost double the time that the C2 has, so there are far more
>> high-milers to affect the stats.
>
> No, the current Focus has been around for about five years.
Indeed, but Duncan didn't make that distinction.
> Reliability Index
> C2 - 106.69
> Focus (04-) - 62.13
> Industry average - 112, lower numbers are better. So, yes, the C2 is
> less reliable than the Focus. But.
By a considerable amount then.
> Average Age
> C2 - 3.94 years
> Focus (04-) - 3.47
>
> Average Mileage
> C2 - 35606.44
> Focus (04-) - 35110.49
>
> Time off road is identical, average repair cost for the Citroen is
> slightly more expensive.
>
> Of course, they're not really market rivals.
It wasn't my comparison though; it was Duncan's.
> Compare the C2 with a Ka or the C4 with the Focus, and the picture
> changes.
>
> The Ka, despite being older, is down as markedly more reliable, less
> likely to spend time off the road, and cheaper to fix - but, as you
> point out, is an ancient design - and no account seems to be taken for
> the well- known structural rot issues the Ka is beleagured with.
Am I missing a post or two? I never mentioned the Ka!
> The C4 is a similar size, age & spec direct rival to the Focus - and is
> much more reliable, spends considerably less time off the road, and is
> much cheaper to fix.
I very much doubt that statement, over the lifetime of the two cars.
>> The C2 came 96th of 100 in the 2008 JD Power survey. What must be
>> particularly upsetting for those disenchanted owners is the fact that
>> Citroen dealers appear to be somewhere near the worst.
>
> That's certainly Citroen's big problem. If the dealers were better, I'm
> sure the C2 would come out better. That the C4 does so well despite
> utterly shite dealers says a lot. B'sides, who'd use a dealer, when
> there's so many excellent quality and value independent Citroen
> specialists around?
Well, one of the many Citroen owners hoping to get some warranty support,
I would assume.
Adrian
much like they were saying:
>> Reliability Index
>> C2 - 106.69
>> Focus (04-) - 62.13
>> Industry average - 112, lower numbers are better. So, yes, the C2 is
>> less reliable than the Focus. But.
> By a considerable amount then.
But the C2 is still better than the industry average.
>> Of course, they're not really market rivals.
> It wasn't my comparison though; it was Duncan's.
Did I say whose comparison it was? No.
>> Compare the C2 with a Ka or the C4 with the Focus, and the picture
>> changes.
>>
>> The Ka, despite being older, is down as markedly more reliable, less
>> likely to spend time off the road, and cheaper to fix - but, as you
>> point out, is an ancient design - and no account seems to be taken for
>> the well- known structural rot issues the Ka is beleagured with.
> Am I missing a post or two? I never mentioned the Ka!
No, I did. Just there. You quoted it.
>> B'sides, who'd use a dealer, when there's so many excellent quality
>> and value independent Citroen specialists around?
> Well, one of the many Citroen owners hoping to get some warranty
> support, I would assume.
There's no need to use a franchised dealer to maintain the warranty.
Hasn't been - by law - for a fair few years now. Just use a "proper"
garage, OEM parts and OEM-spec consumables. EU "block exemption" regs.
Duncan Wood
The comparison was with the idea tha googling for faults would give you
any idea oof the likelihood of them. The link has weighted results.
--
Duncan Wood
Chris Whelan
> Chris Whelan <cawh...@prejudicentlworld.com> gurgled happily, sounding
> much like they were saying:
>
>>> Reliability Index
>>> C2 - 106.69
>>> Focus (04-) - 62.13
>>> Industry average - 112, lower numbers are better. So, yes, the C2 is
>>> less reliable than the Focus. But.
>
>> By a considerable amount then.
>
> But the C2 is still better than the industry average.
By a tiny amount, in one survey.
>>> Of course, they're not really market rivals.
>
>> It wasn't my comparison though; it was Duncan's.
>
> Did I say whose comparison it was? No.
>
>>> Compare the C2 with a Ka or the C4 with the Focus, and the picture
>>> changes.
>>>
>>> The Ka, despite being older, is down as markedly more reliable, less
>>> likely to spend time off the road, and cheaper to fix - but, as you
>>> point out, is an ancient design - and no account seems to be taken for
>>> the well- known structural rot issues the Ka is beleagured with.
>
>> Am I missing a post or two? I never mentioned the Ka!
>
> No, I did. Just there. You quoted it.
So why did you say "...as you point out..."?
>>> B'sides, who'd use a dealer, when there's so many excellent quality
>>> and value independent Citroen specialists around?
>
>> Well, one of the many Citroen owners hoping to get some warranty
>> support, I would assume.
>
> There's no need to use a franchised dealer to maintain the warranty.
> Hasn't been - by law - for a fair few years now. Just use a "proper"
> garage, OEM parts and OEM-spec consumables. EU "block exemption" regs.
Indeed. But where do you go to *get* the warranty repairs done?
Any dealer, let alone a Citroen one, is going to be less than helpful if
they know you are only going to use them for warranty repairs, regardless
of the legal situation.
Adrian
much like they were saying:
>>>> Compare the C2 with a Ka or the C4 with the Focus, and the picture
>>>> changes.
>>>>
>>>> The Ka, despite being older, is down as markedly more reliable, less
>>>> likely to spend time off the road, and cheaper to fix - but, as you
>>>> point out, is an ancient design - and no account seems to be taken
>>>> for the well- known structural rot issues the Ka is beleagured with.
>>> Am I missing a post or two? I never mentioned the Ka!
>> No, I did. Just there. You quoted it.
> So why did you say "...as you point out..."?
OK, my bad. I was referring to your reference to the Focus being an old
design.
>> There's no need to use a franchised dealer to maintain the warranty.
>> Hasn't been - by law - for a fair few years now. Just use a "proper"
>> garage, OEM parts and OEM-spec consumables. EU "block exemption" regs.
> Indeed. But where do you go to *get* the warranty repairs done?
The dealer, of course.
> Any dealer, let alone a Citroen one, is going to be less than helpful if
> they know you are only going to use them for warranty repairs,
> regardless of the legal situation.
There may be a slight difference in goodwill payments towards out-of-
warranty fixes, but there cannot, legally, be any difference to how they
deal with warranty claims. As they well know, as CitUK well know, and as
Trading Standards most certainly well know.
Chris Whelan
[...]
>> Any dealer, let alone a Citroen one, is going to be less than helpful
>> if they know you are only going to use them for warranty repairs,
>> regardless of the legal situation.
>
> There may be a slight difference in goodwill payments towards out-of-
> warranty fixes, but there cannot, legally, be any difference to how they
> deal with warranty claims. As they well know, as CitUK well know, and as
> Trading Standards most certainly well know.
Meanwhile, in the real world occupied by average folk who know nowt about
cars, the dealer will always respond differently to someone who has
purchased a car from them, and had it maintained by them. I've had lots
of evidence of this through acquaintances; one work colleague who bought
a Peugeot from Trade Sales was told by the local dealer they weren't even
prepared to service it!
As regards Citroen UK, their attitude is as bad as the dealers, which is
why the dealers are so poor of course.
asahartz
<cawh...@prejudicentlworld.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 17:51:24 +0000, asahartz wrote:
>
>[...]
>
>> we bought a modern car to replace her classic Mini on
>> reliability grounds, and we still end up with distressed phone calls
>> from the other end of the country!
>
>You bought her a C2 on reliability grounds? Oh dear...
>
By comparison with a '92 Mini.
The C2 wasn't my choice; I'd have gone for the Yaris, but she's very
small and it was the only one she felt comfortable driving.
--
asahartz woz ere
Chris Whelan
> On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 18:42:12 GMT, Chris Whelan
> <cawh...@prejudicentlworld.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 17:51:24 +0000, asahartz wrote:
>>
>>[...]
>>
>>> we bought a modern car to replace her classic Mini on reliability
>>> grounds, and we still end up with distressed phone calls from the
>>> other end of the country!
>>
>>You bought her a C2 on reliability grounds? Oh dear...
>>
> By comparison with a '92 Mini.
Fair point ;-)
> The C2 wasn't my choice; I'd have gone for the Yaris, but she's very
> small and it was the only one she felt comfortable driving.
Lucky girl; you bought her a car, *and* she got to choose what it was!
Something Japanese would certainly have been a better choice.
Hope you get it sorted.
Mike
It probably is, and its long term performance has truly shocked me.
For instance even when driven over quite bad road surfaces it's clear
the dampers are still in very good condition. Lots of motorway only
miles help though :)
At the time I tried to persuade her to buy either a Mini, a Polo or a
Yaris. They are all no doubt a load of shite in customer satisfaction
surveys too!
--
